Next question guys (thanks for all the help by the way):

Sometimes when I run my car I think it is handling great and then people tell me "it look like it's real tight" or "looks loose out". Is there a way to take the subjectivity out of handling analysis? Tire temps, tire wear, motor temps etc.??


Thanks,
Al

The easiest way to judge handling is by lap times.
Butch

Understood, but lap times are not always available during practice.

Next question guys (thanks for all the help by the way):

Sometimes when I run my car I think it is handling great and then people tell me "it look like it's real tight" or "looks loose out". Is there a way to take the subjectivity out of handling analysis? Tire temps, tire wear, motor temps etc.??


Thanks,
Al

Alan, I have this same problem and it can be hard to figure out sometimes. I make a few changes and the car will feel really good, then someone will say "man, that thing looks super tight", or "your car is digging hard in the center".

Ultimately, I can figure out handling two ways......

1) The lap times. Based on other runs, I can usually tell when I have went the right way or the wrong way with changes just by seeing if the lap times picked up or fell off. I try to stay really consistent on gearing to make it easier to rule out setup changes if the lap times fall off or pick up.

2) Racing with other guys. I can always tell where people are beating me when we are racing near each other. If I stay a certain distance on the straight, then they really pick up on me in the corners, I know that my car is tight and I am scrubbing speed. I never have the problem of being too loose, so I usually always know that I am tight if this happens.

Sometimes when you are out on the track alone, the car can feel really good even though it may not be that great. When you have something to judge it against, either other cars or lap times, you can really tell where you are missing the setup.

Next is tires....tires can tell you a lot about what your car is doing. Unfortunately, I have not gotten to the point of being able to read my tires very well. I can look at my tires and know if I need to add or remove camber but that is about it. I am still learning a lot about wedge and balance of the car, which I think tires can tell you about it. The key is to learn it and be able to adjust for it between rounds.

--Cory

Next question guys (thanks for all the help by the way):

Sometimes when I run my car I think it is handling great and then people tell me "it look like it's real tight" or "looks loose out". Is there a way to take the subjectivity out of handling analysis? Tire temps, tire wear, motor temps etc.??


Thanks,
Al

Just to add a bit more to my previous post.....

For me, motor temps simply tell me how close I am on gearing. This is also usually pretty evident during practice/race by how fast the car falls off in speed based on the amount of time ran.

I check my motor temps after each race and it stays pretty consistent. Motor temps will certainly tell you if you can add a tooth and maybe squeeze just a bit more out of it. I think those Novak SS motors have a certain "whine" to them when you are right in the range of the sweet spot.

As far as setup from motor temps, I am not sure. I can tell you that where the motor is placed in the rear pod makes a difference. If the motor is further back (closer to the axle) or more forward changes the weight distribution a bit.

I could tell a difference going from an 88t to a 96t spur gear. Doing that moved the motor forward in the rear pod and it seemed to change the car slightly. It also seemed to help the car get up off the corner a little better, and made my corner entry better since the car didn't seem to have quite as much top end speed, but better jump up off the corner.

I am sure some other people can chime in here and point us in the right direction on properly reading your car based on tires, etc.!

--Cory

Reading the tires is okay to a point. One thing i always like to see and it has proven true when our stuff has been really dialed is the LF tire will wear even with the RF, in fact if all four tires are wearing fairly even (within .010) you are probably pretty close. But tire where can fool you also because there are a ton of other factors. Some tracks are harder on tires, grip level is a factor. What kind of traction compound you are using etc.

One thing I hate to read is the guys that still set their front camber to make the tire wear flat. run as much or as little camber as you need to make the car turn correctly. Watch the ARCA race at Pocono this weekend(i assume they are running, they usually do with the cup cars there) I will bet at least 6 cars Blow LF tires because they are running so much camber in the LF trying to help the car turn.

Again, motor temperature will only get you so far. a hot motor may indicate overgearing, a tight car, a loose car even and undergeared car. You could just have a crap rotor/motor that runs hot no matter what. I basically use motor temperature as a safety precaution. Everytime a Novak motor gets over 160-170 you just took away life expectancy.

To get the "feel" of what a good car should "feel" like, you have to have a car that is fast. I was lucky enough to get to run some laps with Richie King's car at Tri-Clone years ago. He told to get my car to turn and feel like that and I would be fast and I was and from then on I've always been pretty darn good at that track because of knowing the "feel". while the cars have changed, the track surface there changes. The "feel" of a good car at the Tri-clone is always the same.

The point is I believe that "feel" isn't really something that can be learned or taught or really put down in words very well. It just develops with experience.

You can have a car the feels good and is slow, you can have a car that feels terrible, looks terrible and is still fast(see Kyle Busch)

So questions to ask yourself while driving are: how much wheel input does it take to turn the corner? And I don't mean how much D/R you are using. You can run 22% and have the wheels turned all the way around the track verus a guy running 30% and has the wheels straight on the the shoot, turns in smoothly just touchs the lock in the center of the corner and then is turning the wheels back straight.

Break the corner down into thirds, entry, center and exit. Think how the car is doing in those thirds. But in general if the car doesn't enter the corner well, the rest of the way won't matter. We just aren't in the corners long enough to really break it down. But I can't count the amount of times I've seen someone struggling with a "loose" off condition and they continue to tighten up a car that is way too tight entering and/or in the center, not realizing that if they didn't have the wheel cranked the car wouldn't get loose off the corner.

good explanation DB.. Makes me wanna wheel your whip at the next race to see what a good car really feels like! You ready for carpet season or what?:thumbsup:

Easy way to judge if you car is working is to beat frankie or danny at a race. Hope to see you guys at the track this fall.

The point is I believe that "feel" isn't really something that can be learned or taught or really put down in words very well. It just develops with experience.



This is really important! For anybody just starting out with goals to become really competitive i'd suggest racing as much as you can! weather its oval, onroad, offroad whatever! Race as much as ya can and you'll get the feel of what the cars do in no time! :thumbsup:

Reading the tires is okay to a point...
One thing I hate to read is the guys that still set their front camber to make the tire wear flat. run as much or as little camber as you need to make the car turn correctly....

Good advice, but to those not familiar with this concept, you need to expalin
that when you do set your car up this way, it is critical to run square tires..
In other words, you need to true them more often.
As the tire wears, using a lot of camber, more tire is exposed to the track surface.
Creating a different coefficient of friction.
To maintain the proper feel, throughout the event, you need to keep
the same footprint on the surface.
It's the only way to get consistent, accurate feedback.

Mike V. yeah, hope to see you at some races this year.

Frankie, Have not touched an oval car since the BRL Finals! 1/8 Off-Road has been a lot of fun this summer. Bout the only bad thing is RC Pro Series Finals in Texas is the same weekend as Ovalmaster in Nov. decisions, decisions

Dan, good point, might not be the best advice for racers that are budgeted on tires. One other thing you may notice is the car will feel twitchy or unstable on the straight when you run more on the edges of the tire. I've never really felt that in a class with a wing but when running "BRL" wingless rules, the cars can get a little scary to drive, but i've found that they are faster when right on the edge

Never listen to anyone else about how your car looks. It what you think it's doing that's important. But in your driveway it doesn't matter.

how about about plain ole wheel input. if your crankin it then your tight if you a re breathin on it turn left then right your loose

This is all good info, but i'd like to see some info on what to do once you figure out what's wrong.

For example, car turns in well but pushes off.

several things move the LR in, move the LF out, more droop in the LF,, hair less wedge, move wing forward, drop side shock angle, more LF camber

This is all good info, but i'd like to see some info on what to do once you figure out what's wrong.

For example, car turns in well but pushes off.

There is a very nice tuning section in CstomWorks Aggressor manual starting on page 12 or so. Good reading.

http://www.customworksrc.com/aa_support/models/0800/0800_manual_web.pdf