While parts of the country have again split and are headed a different direction...I am hearing places talk about not taking thier races that direction.

WE (The SWTour) also have no current plans to go toward 3.7v "Single Cell" racing.

While we do have a group of racers who may benefit in some way,the slower speeds of a couple of the "Single Cell" classes, since WE created the 21.5/2s Lipo class - our competiton and racing has been AWESOME on both SHORT tracks and velodromes.

IMHO we have such good racing, with ONE all around product... WE have a near PERFECT "SPEC" class of racing, separated more by CAR SETUP and DRIVER SKILL now than ever before in the HISTORY of RC Oval Racing.

By NOT chasing the "HOT" motor/battery of the week, and instead locking in our products for a (3) year term, we actually get to see how drivers are able to improve their SKILLS, not improve by BUYING faster stuff.

As for the competition and durability this racing has provided...I give it ***** stars!!

I wish it were that way in the north east. Everybody seems to be divided on what to run.
Its a 2 way split 21.5 2 cell, 13.5 single. I think we all should start to over power the cars again the way it used to be and put how fast you are into the drivers hands NOT THE RADIO. My vote would be for 17.5 2 cell. Most the people run their cars flat out without using any throttle controll all they do is steer,(yes they do have good handling cars) But I equate it to putting your car on a string and letting it go around in circles till the battery dies.

Ditto!

Well guys - ONLY YOU "The Racers" can make it happen...

SHOW UP with your 21.5 / 2s set ups, make sure to have enough for a class, and keep it alive.

THIS is not like a NIMH that is causing you to have to spend money after money...

There is nothing wrong with 2s racing, and nothing wrong with the 21.5 and/or 17.5 motors.

Just because a group of mostly carpet racers want to change the direction of ALL Oval, doesn't mean THAT is the direction ALL oval needs to go.

The OUTDOORS Tracks do great with 2s, and if you want to go FASTER than 21.5, it's EASY to do...and MOST outdoor tracks really don't want to go any slower.

Going SLOWER on a carpet track COULD be easy too - simply by using BREAKOUT rules... Set up a 4 second, a 4.5 second and a 5.0 second group (No "Separate Class", just separate groups)

GET BETTER, GO FASTER, BUMP UP to the faster group! Don't know how much SIMPLER that could be!!

Erik Steenhoven is my heeero!

I wish it were that way in the north east. Everybody seems to be divided on what to run.
Its a 2 way split 21.5 2 cell, 13.5 single. I think we all should start to over power the cars again the way it used to be and put how fast you are into the drivers hands NOT THE RADIO. My vote would be for 17.5 2 cell. Most the people run their cars flat out without using any throttle controll all they do is steer,(yes they do have good handling cars) But I equate it to putting your car on a string and letting it go around in circles till the battery dies.

Big D,I've been holding off on spending anything until those figure out what direction we're going.Basically down to just a battery pack or 2.
You have any intention of running a pancar at all?? 13.5 single is prob where SK will end up.I'm on hold 'til carpet season gets here.We'll see where things go then.

Well guys - ONLY YOU "The Racers" can make it happen...

SHOW UP with your 21.5 / 2s set ups, make sure to have enough for a class, and keep it alive.

THIS is not like a NIMH that is causing you to have to spend money after money...

There is nothing wrong with 2s racing, and nothing wrong with the 21.5 and/or 17.5 motors.

Just because a group of mostly carpet racers want to change the direction of ALL Oval, doesn't mean THAT is the direction ALL oval needs to go.



Joe,It's been said time after time,you can't please everyone.
Your quote above couldn't have been said any better.

The northeast has been the last to change in the last few steps in oval racing why should the change to 1 cell be any different. Last to hang on to brushed motors, last to change to lipo and they will be the last to change to 1 cell. 1 cell is going to be the next step in oval pancar racing. The TOUR is a nice step to get everybody headed in the right direction nation wide which has been so fractured in the past 4 years.

Shadow,Understand your post,and couldn't agree more.Joe's post also has plenty of
validity. We all know,that the whole country won't use the "Tour" program.
We could split hairs here forever.There's still plenty of 2S racing going on,IMO I see no reason why it couldn't /shouldn't stay around awhile.Taking nothing away from 1S progress.If there's enough for a class,I know RCMadness will have 'em run.

Yeah there will be some places that will still hang on to the 2 cell classes, but with oval racers being what they are. All or almost all will be buying a new pack for this coming indoor season, buy the cheaper 1 cell pack and all you need to do is switch motors, and with the novaks you can do the exchange proram they use. And really how many tracks in the northest run faster than 21.5 weekly and have more than 3 or 4 cars running it.

i wished they would leave it like it is 2s

I'm coming out with a 2v cap battery, this 1 Cell stuff is too fast!!!

I thought the TOUR rules allow for 2c racing? Just not as a featured class. Last weekend at Marshalls indoor mid summer carpet championships , Alan Behler ran a 1 cell 10.5 motor against the 2c 21.5 cars and was just as fast as those cars. I think TOUR'S reasoning is, as Shadow mentioned , to unify the battery between the classes so we can run any class with just a motor change. With the 2 cell battery there was no motor slow enough to have the speeds of 1 cell 13.5 (which is the same as 17.5 4 cell NIMH speeds). If enough 2 cell cars show up just run them and have fun racing, but we all buy new packs for the fall /winter season and if we can buy just 1 battery to be able to run multiple classes I think it's a no brainer to go with the 1 cell. Just my 2 cents.

the tour rules were designed around indoor carpet racing mainly in the northeast area...

as a promoter you do what you need to do to keep the doors open and the racers happy...if it's 4 cell nimh and a 19 turn motor and you have 80 entries..who the hell cares what track Z is doing for rules...

race what you got and thank the lord guys are still willing to promote oval races and provide you with a place to race.

Amen Katfish, I can relate to what your saying. But it would be nice when going to the 4 TOUR major races we were all on the same page. I think if enough 2 cell 21.5 entries showed up for those four races they could be recognized as TOUR champions as well. On the local level if your getting 80 entries in 4 cell nimh god bless you and I can totally understand from a promoters stand point not caring what any other track is doing. As a matter of fact, Bill Marshall of Marshalls RC Raceway is adament about keeping 4 cell nimh with brushed stock motors going as a class , but will also honor the TOUR rules for the three major classes along with the sportsmen class for those who will run them. My personal observation has been in the north east nimh is dead and or slowly dying. The biggest class in the last half of the carpet season was 13.5 1 cell as evidenced by the turnouts at Iron Maximus , and Marshalls summer carpet championship. I feel with the TOUR rules package Oval will flourish and be here for a long time to come. This should help keep the oval promoters and tracks in business so we still have a place to race , maybe even get back to or exceed the numbers we had in the late 80's and mid 90's. (we can hope).

So someone comes out with a unifying (attempted) set of rules, so now we're gonna start threads encouraging everyone to go a different direction again? How dumb could we possibly be to do that.

Joe, what you've got going is great, but that ship already sailed everywhere else. Even if we weren't going to do the TOUR rules we still wouldn't be on your rules either.

Kat, how do you figure the TOUR rules are setup around the NE. Only one out of the 4 people involved is a NE racer. I know you guys never ever leave Florida, but contrary to what you think most of us are racing on tracks as big or bigger than you are.

Kat, how do you figure the TOUR rules are setup around the NE. Only one out of the 4 people involved is a NE racer. I know you guys never ever leave Florida, but contrary to what you think most of us are racing on tracks as big or bigger than you are.[/QUOTE]

pass it over here dude...lmao

I can totally understand the reasoning behind wanting to unify all of the classes to 1S. Obviously, it makes running other classes much easier on everyone.

I currently run 21.5 Sportsman and I really like the class, the speed, and everything about it. I would certainly have no problem moving to a 1S class, as long as I was informed about in plenty of advance time.

The current problem I see at my local track (Easley) is that there are not enough differences between the classes. 21.5 Sportsman runs almost just as fast as 21.5 pro. 10.5 1cell is only a lap or so faster over a 4 minute on average. In the end, all 3 classes are really close when it all boils down. It obviously varies from time to time, but overall, this is the case.

I think there have to be clear differences between classes in order for people to want to progress further in the hobby. Maybe in the end, 1S will accomplish that. I am just now getting my head around 2S after being away for 12 years, so I honestly haven't even looked into 1S. It appears that it might become the standard nationwide.

Moving to 1S makes no difference unless there are clear differences and good reasons for doing so.

Just my thoughts....

--Cory

The 1C thing just makes it easier for "most" tracks to be able to adopt the same rules. I have raced on tracks the are really to small for 13.5 4cell, or 21.5 2C. I really only see the Velo's keeping 2C much past the start of the carpet season. I didn't like lipo, brushless, or 1C at first. Once you get on board though it just works....

Most everyone that I have talked to on the east coast are going with TOUR, with maybe some 21.5 2C in some local areas.

Yep, FL has 17.5 2C as a popular class. So setting up a 7.5 1C class is all about the NE??? To me that sounds like they were taking care of the FL boys...

Yep, keep 2 cell 21.5 and 17.5

So someone comes out with a unifying (attempted) set of rules, so now we're gonna start threads encouraging everyone to go a different direction again? How dumb could we possibly be to do that.

Joe, what you've got going is great, but that ship already sailed everywhere else. Even if we weren't going to do the TOUR rules we still wouldn't be on your rules either.

Kat, how do you figure the TOUR rules are setup around the NE. Only one out of the 4 people involved is a NE racer. I know you guys never ever leave Florida, but contrary to what you think most of us are racing on tracks as big or bigger than you are.

DITTO THIS!

So someone comes out with a unifying (attempted) set of rules, so now we're gonna start threads encouraging everyone to go a different direction again? How dumb could we possibly be to do that.

Joe, what you've got going is great, but that ship already sailed everywhere else. Even if we weren't going to do the TOUR rules we still wouldn't be on your rules either.

Kat, how do you figure the TOUR rules are setup around the NE. Only one out of the 4 people involved is a NE racer. I know you guys never ever leave Florida, but contrary to what you think most of us are racing on tracks as big or bigger than you are.


what Pat said!

While parts of the country have again split and are headed a different direction...I am hearing places talk about not taking thier races that direction.

WE (The SWTour) also have no current plans to go toward 3.7v "Single Cell" racing.

While we do have a group of racers who may benefit in some way,the slower speeds of a couple of the "Single Cell" classes, since WE created the 21.5/2s Lipo class - our competiton and racing has been AWESOME on both SHORT tracks and velodromes.

IMHO we have such good racing, with ONE all around product... WE have a near PERFECT "SPEC" class of racing, separated more by CAR SETUP and DRIVER SKILL now than ever before in the HISTORY of RC Oval Racing.

By NOT chasing the "HOT" motor/battery of the week, and instead locking in our products for a (3) year term, we actually get to see how drivers are able to improve their SKILLS, not improve by BUYING faster stuff.

As for the competition and durability this racing has provided...I give it ***** stars!!


Doesnt califorina have its own rc thread that you can go to with all of your brilliant ideas that dont pertain to the rest of the country?

Yep, keep 2 cell 21.5 and 17.5

Keep it? I wanna get it. Holding the throttle down and turning isn't really racing to me, its something to do. Overpower and lift and drive. It wont be batt. or motor of the week. I started in the early 90's with 6 cell stock, rubber caps, and on a concrete tri oval. You learned how to set up and DRIVE, not just steer. JMO.

Keep it? I wanna get it. Holding the throttle down and turning isn't really racing to me, its something to do. Overpower and lift and drive. It wont be batt. or motor of the week. I started in the early 90's with 6 cell stock, rubber caps, and on a concrete tri oval. You learned how to set up and DRIVE, not just steer. JMO.

You won't have the reaction time to drive a car that is overpowered enough to require throttle control nowadays.

Well, Mr. Frankie....

Last I knew this was pretty much a PUBLIC FORUM, and more to the point...people I've talked to that WANT, or WANT TO KEEP 2s 21.5 and 17.5 were NOT from Calif!!

In CALIF, it's NOT an issue, this is ALL we are running NOW, and all that is planned to be run in 2010.

Cause UNLIKE the rest of this country that can't seem fo find ONE DIRECTION and stay with it - I/WE commited to sticking w/ our deal for (3) Solid Years!!

I kind of let this thread die off, but if you guys want to keep it going - so be it!!

The most AWESOME thing about running the SAME MOTOR and the SAME BATTERY for so long, is...kinda like the "OLD DAYS" that everyone cherishes so much - you get to see how much the DRIVER improves his driving and setup w/o the NEWEST/HOTTEST product being the difference in MORE SPEED.


Personally, I think some of you are just bitter and jealous that we have something GOOD, and you guys are always on the search for something SLOWER so you can SCREW IT UP by allowing NEWER/FASTER stuff!

Myself, I'm pretty happy with what WE have!!

Don't like what the tread has to say....DON'T READ IT -



Joe, what you've got going is great, but that ship already sailed everywhere else. Even if we weren't going to do the TOUR rules we still wouldn't be on your rules either.




Pat,

I haven't advocated ANYONE use "MY" SWTour Rules. I have advocated people STAY with the 2s classes where they are POPULAR and they WORK. No NEED to be a "Billy Bandwagon" and jump to something NEW, when what you have is working just fine!!

I would guess that is why the BRL is keeping their 21.5 2s class?

They will at least KEEP IT and see if there is still interest, I do believe your NEW organization also has a SET of RULES for the 2s class(es)

As far as what "WE" (Our group of racers) do, as far as I know, I'm free to SHARE it with the WORLD, if someone outside of where I am decides what WE run would WORK FOR THEM - that's up to them!!

While you guys are arguing back and forth about what to keep and what not to keep, maybe you guys can shed some light on moving from 2c to 1c racing.....

Break it down for people that are currently running 21.5/2c and are interested in moving to 1c racing. Obviously, new people to the sport can start in 1c and not have to spend a lot of money. But, the guys that just bought 2c stuff would now have to buy more stuff to move to 1c.

What changes have to be made? Why a receiver pack? Will the same ESC being used for 21.5/2c work with 1c racing? If not, why?

I think if you guys explain the differences, people can make up their own mind as to which racing they will support.

--Cory

While you guys are arguing back and forth about what to keep and what not to keep, maybe you guys can shed some light on moving from 2c to 1c racing.....

Break it down for people that are currently running 21.5/2c and are interested in moving to 1c racing. Obviously, new people to the sport can start in 1c and not have to spend a lot of money. But, the guys that just bought 2c stuff would now have to buy more stuff to move to 1c.

What changes have to be made? Why a receiver pack? Will the same ESC being used for 21.5/2c work with 1c racing? If not, why?

I think if you guys explain the differences, people can make up their own mind as to which racing they will support.

--Cory


Cory,

The 2s racing was something that we were building as a joint effort a couple years ago between OUR SWTour Series and the now Defunct ARCOR organization.

We both were looking at bringing LIPO Batteries into Oval Racing without going back to the speeds of the old 6 cell Brushed motor days.

In order to do so, NEW Motors were built to go approximately the speeds of the (4) Cell NiMh battery classes (Stock and 19t)

We had (3) different winds of NEW Motors build for us to test.

17.5
21.5
25.5

All built by NOVAK

The FIRST Test showed 17.5 was WAY too fast with a 2s LIPO. Not only was it too fast for the replacement of 4 cell brushed STOCK, but it was faster than 4 cell brushed 19t.

But when tested with the 4 cell NiMh packs, it was almost DEAD ON 4 cell STOCK speeds. (We bookmarked that info, but continued looking for the motor we wanted)

Then came the 25.5 motor.

The obsticle at the time w/ the 25.5 motor was NOBODY was making the NEW Small Spur Gears, and/or the really BIG pinions yet.

About the smallest SPUR was a 88t (64p) and a 51-52 pinion.

STRAIGHT LINE SPEED with 2.45" Foam Tires and the 88/52 gearing only got the 25.5 motors up to 18 MPH in Speed tests. -- TOO SLOW

Before PRS or other companies came out with Taller ratios, NOVAK wound the 21.5 motor.

The first tests with that motor also showed it was VERY FAST, it was less than 1/2 lap off the 19t TQ run on the day we first tested it... with NO work involved.

(This test was done on a 285ft Banked Concrete (capped tire) track.)

Further testing was done on Carpet, Flat Asphalt, and Velodrome.

While the speeds were faster, the drivability was a lot easier than some of the other FASTER classes (including 19t/4 cell)

During OUR Testing, information about the tests was released, and OTHER places across the country started doing their OWN tests, as the 21.5 motor was released. MANY places liked it, and it quickly became a POPULAR class.

In the original tests - the motor was run using the ORION 3200 mAh lipo. It was selected because of it's Hard Shell case, and the fact it had been a proven battery with almost 2 years already on the market.

Most of the country that picked up the 2s 21.5 and 17.5 classes opted to OPEN Their Battery rules to allow the SMC 2s 3200 mAh batteries, (Which had a significant higher voltage and amp draw ability over the ORIONS...which just made an already FAST CLASS...FASTER!)

Now, a year later, they complain it's gotten TOO FAST (Duh!!) and are trying to slow it down by going to 3.7v (So Called ONE CELL... which is actually 2 cells hooked in a Parallel circuit, versus a 2 cell SERIES circuit)

I can gaurantee you THEY ARE RIGHT - 2s 21.5 on a 100ft CARPET TRACK...is TOO FAST!!

But 17.5/4 cell WASN'T, and the guys who went that direction kinda wanted to be able to PLAY with LIPO power too.

The problem is in order to go to 1 cell, MOST LIPO Chargers (guys bought for 2 cell) won't do ONE Cell voltage, there are other Power Issues (ie: Needing MORE VOLTAGE for Servos, etc.)

Plus, now they need a totally different motor.

Some of the ESC's (Novak) seem to be working fine w/ 1s type packs. Others I'm hearing guys have some issues, but not ALL guys (Not sure if the diff is the Servos they run or what is causing the issues)

LONG and SHORT of it...

1s will draw MORE AMPS - Sucking MORE life from the battery, but will allow for SLOWER SPEEDS on the Short tracks (and slower on big tracks too)

a lot of radio gear will not get enough power from a 1s battery, so a receiver pack or power booster may be needed.

I work all carpet season on my car and driving skills for one event. THE BIRDS!!! If I have to buy all new stuff and run it dosent matter to me. Why you ask I dont just keep my stuff and run 2 cell 21.5 at the birds. Well the reason I want to race with the best and not try and when A class with the big names not in there like 21.5 is going to be. If you guys from Cal, tn, and fl want to do that theres nothing wrong with it.

Joe, I actually agree with you more often than most other people on here do. In this case though you are off. As for being Billy Bandwagon it seems to me you are all for bandwagon jumping as long as we're jumping onto yours. You were the one beating all of us over the head with LiPO when we had classes that were working just "fine" before. You may not say "run my rules they are better" anywhere, but it isn't too difficult to read between the lines of your posts. You're certainly eager to take credit for the 21.5 motor and the rise of LiPO racing every chance you get.

As for your statements about the SMC batteries you might want to know that your heated (which no one else allows anymore) Orions are as fast or probably faster than our unheated SMC\TP packs for the first minute or so of a race. They do fall on their face then, but overall don't run much or maybe any slower over the course of a 4 minute run.

Here is the short answer to your question Cory without the history lesson of the South West Tour's invention of modern rc oval racing.

Why 1s?

21.5 2s (no matter which battery you use) is faster than a good number of people wish to go. So either you need less voltage or more winds on the motor. More winds isn't practical for the motor manufacturers, so less voltage it is.

So, if you need to offer 1s anyway why not make it 1s across the board? The batteries are cheaper and a person can move up to the next faster class without having to get new batteries or making even more major chassis changes. It allows for standardization, cheaper batteries and all the various speeds necessary to keep every racer happy.

As for those who just purchased 2s stuff that is bummer. If it were me I'd sell it now and make the switch. Luckily for you here is where the hard headedness and fear of change in the oval world pay off. Since guys will cling to the old classes you'll have a market to sell your stuff.

Ultimately it benefits everyone in the long run to be on the same page. Unfortunately when you have racers\tracks all off in 10 various directions it means guys are going to have to compromise and accept some change to make things better.

Pat,

I agree, you have been on my side on certain issues.. and as far as taking credit for the 21.5 - I will take some credit, as well as some blame...

THIS CLASS WAS NEVER READY FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION - and I NEVER TRIED TO MAKE IT THAT WAY -- IT WAS RACERS WANTING TO BAIL FROM NiMh Batterys that pushed it!

Even though I did adopt the class for OUR events, I would have liked ONE slower class, ONE intermediate speed class and ONE Ballistic (http://www.teamnovak.com) class.

I wanted at least 2 "Perfect" classes before they ever hit the track for OUR racers (I didn't care what the rest of the country did, all I did was report our results, at the request of a few NON CALIF. racers)

We did a lot of those results privately via Email for several weeks. ONE of those emails got to someone who posted info HERE (Actually what was posted was INCORRECT, MISLEADING info) and I responded. (That was during the original 17.5 motor testing)

The ONE CELL (3.7v) is NOT (IMHO) Ready to be released either. Too many people making statements about "I THINK" this will do this, or that. Without actually KNOWING answers.

I CAN SAY 100%, I felt 21.5 / 2s was TOO FAST to be considered a "PERFECT" Class before it ever became a class, and was working to FIX THAT before other guys pretty much FORCED the issue before it was ready.

I also PERSONALLY believe the FUTURE of the Battery will at some point go towards the LIFE 3.3v per cell packs... but when? Who knows....but at least I locked OUR series into a 3 year plan so we wouldn't have to worry about it for a while!~!

i wish it would stay 2s racing,,, i dont care for 1 cell racing,, BIGDON

Another thing to consider also is track size. I know a lot of you guys run on some tiny carpet tracks and that can affect which classes are actually run.

No offense, but I ain't real interested in 2.7 lap times!:) I've seen some YouTube videos of tracks that look smaller than my living room. In that regard, I can understand the need for slowing guys down and having slower 1c classes.

Anyway, my local track (Easley) is much bigger and so 21.5 is not too fast really. If anything, I would like it just a bit faster. The 10.5/1c class is running identical times to the 21.5/2c class.

So aside from cost, and unity, I think you have to really take a look at other things like track size, caps vs. foams, indoor/outdoor, etc. to really weigh the benefits of moving to 1c classes over keeping 2c classes.

--Cory

Another thing to consider also is track size. I know a lot of you guys run on some tiny carpet tracks and that can affect which classes are actually run.

No offense, but I ain't real interested in 2.7 lap times!:) I've seen some YouTube videos of tracks that look smaller than my living room. In that regard, I can understand the need for slowing guys down and having slower 1c classes.

Anyway, my local track (Easley) is much bigger and so 21.5 is not too fast really. If anything, I would like it just a bit faster. The 10.5/1c class is running identical times to the 21.5/2c class.

So aside from cost, and unity, I think you have to really take a look at other things like track size, caps vs. foams, indoor/outdoor, etc. to really weigh the benefits of moving to 1c classes over keeping 2c classes.

--Cory

That is where the 1s 7.5 class will come in. The goal isn't to slow anything down. The goal is to standardize around 1 battery that allows the whle range of speeds needed.

Yes, I agree that anything slower than 21.5 2s would be incredibly boring at Easely. :)

That is where the 1s 7.5 class will come in. The goal isn't to slow anything down. The goal is to standardize around 1 battery that allows the whle range of speeds needed.

Yes, I agree that anything slower than 21.5 2s would be incredibly boring at Easely. :)

When you add it all up, 1c looks extremely promising to me. So far, it appears that the benefits are well worth the added expenditures for us 2c guys to move to 1c.

I raced under the 6-cell Stock/Mod format for years and loved it. Knowing that I could go to any track and fit right in was always fun. So it sounds like we might be heading back towards those days now, which will be super great for oval racing a whole.

Not sure if we will see the transition at Easley anytime soon, but I think it will happen at some point down the road. The 13.5/1c trucks seems to be a great class at Easley for people just getting into racing. The speeds are slow enough (I think) to make the class extremely fun while allowing people to really learn the hobby, car setup, and driving ability.

--Cory

But for a new person 13.5 1C at Easely would be great to learn on... You wouldn't need a wing, and the COT body would work fine.

Joe-
You say 1C is not ready? We have been running it for a whole season. They have been testing it for over a year! Seems to me we just need to take it and run with it. Your series could run the 10.5 1C mixed with your "pro" 21.5 class. Should be about the same speed, and would allow your travelers to run what the rest of the country runs. Just a suggestion.

Thanks
Joel White

Trying not to look at Pat and Joe's posts, here's the quick answer to why 1 cell over 2 cell.

With 1 cell Lipo you can use already released and industry accepted motor winds and get every level of speed needed from Beginner to Expert, and all size tracks.

That's not true for 2 cell Lipo, or 2 cell LiFe.

I understand guys with 2c stuff not wanting to switch from what is good equipment for their needs right now. Thats why the racers themselves will decide 2c's fate.

Trying not to look at Pat and Joe's posts, here's the quick answer to why 1 cell over 2 cell.

With 1 cell Lipo you can use already released and industry accepted motor winds and get every level of speed needed from Beginner to Expert, and all size tracks.

That's not true for 2 cell Lipo, or 2 cell LiFe.

I understand guys with 2c stuff not wanting to switch from what is good equipment for their needs right now. Thats why the racers themselves will decide 2c's fate.

+1 :thumbsup:

WOW this is better than watching Soap operas...I do enjoy racing in any form . I just dont want to be taking 3 different packs to tracks when we travel in the winter which is every weekend ... Now back to our sheduled drama...

I have sold almost every 2 s pack of 3200 and 5000 and 17.5 motos and the guiys who got them and can use them will be very happy with the purchases.

ROCKET

I have been looking for a thread on this topic and hope to get some good advice. My local track, Pin Shop Hobbies, is most likel putting in a carpet track. None of these guys are oval racers and I don't see anyone wanting to buy 1S packs and receiver packs and new speed controls on top of an oval car. I'm thinking 2S and 21.5 would be ideal. It just seems like less of a hassle and something new guys might actually try. I'd love to get these guys oval racing. Is 2S 21.5 too fast for most tracks? I doubt their track will be huge.

Matt, they had a carpet track a few years ago, i ran a NEOT race there, it was small but fun.

Nick, are you sure you're thinking of the same track. Pin Ship is in Oakville just above Waterbury. I think you're thinking of the track that closed in Rocky Hill off of I95.

Not positive, pretty sure it was the same place.

Is 2S 21.5 too fast for most tracks? I doubt their track will be huge.

We still have 2 / 21.5 2s classes hanging on by a thread.

Our "Sportsman Mod" Class is 2s 21.5 - Stock Car Bodies w/ Open Timing ESC's
Our "NASTRUCK" Class is 2s 21.5 - Nascar TRUCK Bodies w/ Zero Timing ESC's

Those two classes run about 2-3 laps differently most of the time, and with the "Sportsman" class drivers they run similar lap times to the 13.5 and 10.5 1s classes .

NOTE: This is using the less expensive "Sportsman" type 2s battery line from THUNDER POWER (3300 mAh - Sport/Race packs) - if you allow OPEN 2s (the 2s2p type packs) SPEEDS are quite a bit faster.

The Vintage Trans/Am Spec Combo would be a great 2c oval package too - they run a 25.5 motor w/ ZERO Timing ESC and 2s Lipo.

17.5 2s is CRAZY fast, especially w/ OPEN TIMING ESC's - (Fun, but crazy fast)

But - something to consider is going w/ the 2s 21.5 and put in BreakOut Rules to separate the drivers. (Same Equipment - SLOW MEDIUM FAST break outs) w/o having to have different motors etc.

Well, Mr. Frankie....

Cause UNLIKE the rest of this country that can't seem fo find ONE DIRECTION and stay with it - I/WE commited to sticking w/ our deal for (3) Solid Years!!

I kind of let this thread die off, but if you guys want to keep it going - so be it!!
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thats so far from the truth its not even funny.... the rest of the country is running 1s packs. 2s isnt going anywhere.... why would it? them packs are way too expensive for 1 and they need to be balanced for 2. im enjoying clearing my pit table of crap we dont need to carry around. this is just my opinion.

Why the hatred of the 2-cell pack? They don't cost nearly as much as a high "c" 1cell pack. We pay 49.99 for ours, how much do you pay?

I race both of the 2cell 21.5 classes that Joe offers in the SouthWestTour and have since we switched to lipo power, first with the Orion 3200/3400 and then the Thunder Power 3300 25c packs. None of my packs ever varied enough to warrent balancing and have lasted 2 years so far. We have some good 1cell racing in our series but all it did in my opinion was obsolete 90% of the chassis. No modern chassis can run a 2cell pack so I cant get a new generation chassis if I wanted to.

True enough our numbers are dropping off and I'm not sure why, it's not from lack of competition. Speeds have picked up each year and gotten closer and closer. I can't ask for more than that.

The soapbox is available for the next auditor...

I see this is a hot topic in the oval community.

As far as I can tell, oval racing is pretty close to dead in my immediate area, so I'm just looking for some info/insight for when my local hobby builds a carpet track.

I just can't see a bunch of non-oval racers going 1-cell racing. If 2-cell is too fast even with 21.5 motors, maybe I'll suggest touring oval.

i wish it would stay 2s racing,,, i dont care for 1 cell racing,, BIGDON

I think this is one of the reasons what done in pancar.

2 cell racing is cheaper and puts less heat to the motor.

We have to types of racing classes - Stock and Modified.

Stock is box stock no modifications.
Modified - any motor , any two cell.

Keep it simple and you will get racers racing...

Thats not exactly true of the heat issue. If you run a zero timing speedo I would tend to agree, but with adjustable timing you can get to the nuclear meltdown zone real quick. When we were first learning them 2 seasons ago I melted a few before I got it right.

The only time I melted a motor with zero timing was when we still ran 17.5 motors and that was at the velodrome but it was 120 degrees that day with track temp at 143 if I remember correctly. No 21.5 meltdowns knock on wood with zero timing.

Our resident series engineer gave us a disertation that boils down to this, it is easier to make power and generate speed with voltage not ampherage. The 1cell pack is 1/2 the voltage but requires more than 3 times the amp draw to generate equivalent power. That is hard on equipment in my book.

I will run my antiques I guess until I am forced to comply but by then the rest of the oval world will find some other solution that is supposed to save oval anyway.