Thanks Jeff. I was told that would work.

Also I have been told you can run wires to the pos and neg polls on the speedo. While to tech it may look like a cap, but in reality it is feeding voltage to the motor.

Just to keep this on a positive note I am sure Allan and Steve are still reading this thread and are working on ways to prevent any of this stuff.:thumbsup:

Also has anyone tried the COT 13.5 setup on caps yet? I think they are going to test it out at Rosewood.

Oldguy... I don't have any switches in my car to tun on. When the Receiver pack gets plugged in, the car powers up, unplug it, it goes off.

Pat... I'm not sure how that would happen... I can change models on my 3pk and it still makes the car work... Easy fix though, after they check the car with the receiver pack, you have to plug in the battery and throttle up.

Not that it matters really, but here you go.

Model 1 is model I race on.

Model 2 has throttle channel reversed or throttle end point at 0.

Have radio on model 2 in tech, motor does not move. Get on drivers stand switch to model one.

Tech averted.

Anyway, that isn't the kind of tech method that would ever be used, so no point in going on about it.

Hey guys,

Like J-Dub siad, we are reading this and coming up with the best way to address the issue. Believe me, it will be addressed and this will not be a problem going forward. I also have to thank J-Dub for his words of wisdom...."keep this on a positive note "....which I endorse wholeheartedly. (I much prefer that over the....."the sky is falling" approach.)

Let me be clear on a couple of things regarding the 1-cell classes:

4.22V is not only the maxium voltage for the 1-cell Lipo......it is the maximum voltage allowed to be presented to the motor drive circuitry for the purpose of powering your car.............period.
Any attempt to use a secondary source of power (receiver pack battery or booster) to drive the motor is prohibited. No sneak circuits, no gray areas. This is blatent cheating.Now we are just coming up with the best way to test and verify for this, in the simplest way possible. Once we reach a conclusion, I'll post it. Thanks for your trust and your patince.

Steve

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Keep up the good work. Looking forward to this fall.

the easiest thing for the racer to do would be not run anything and convince manufacturers to lower the operating voltage on the esc's for the 3.7 lipos so racers that have reciever packs dont have to buy boosters and racers with boosters dont have to buy reciever packs. all this conversation is about it wasting more money on a different item we didnt need last year. this hobby(sport) is starting to get ridiculous. we might as well go buy the rc cars walmart has on sale because the transmitter that comes with it only steers in one direction


All new style ESC work on voltages Much lower than 3.7v....Thats not the problem, it's the RX and SERVO that needs the 6v..........

Any word on the purple ring on the Novak Motor can we run with out it? Also what about mounting the COT body I think you should have to mount it at the front wheel wells. Just a few thoughts...

from what i was told it is being worked on and we should have an answer on that soon

I had an old receiver that the case has broken on, so I messed with a few things inside the boad using small "jumpers" and the reciever packs can be wired such that the receiver pack adds voltage to the motor, basically wiring it in series as it backfeeds to the speed control. is it cheating, in my opinion yes.

You need to jumper through to the battery + and - on the esc for this to work.

So what you are saying is you are carrying current over the esc servo lead and jumpering onto the battery trace?

The bec should be kicking this voltage down (as with a 7.4 pack) shouldn't it? So you can't be going through the bec?

It can't be going straight to the motor since the motor is AC anyway (BL)

For the 1s battery will the 40c packs be legal or does it still have to be 25c?

For the 1s battery will the 40c packs be legal or does it still have to be 25c?

If ROAR approved on Oct 1st they will be legal and locked for Carpet Season.

any roar legal 1 cell is ok!

If ROAR approved on Oct 1st they will be legal and locked for Carpet Season.Thanks Allan looking forward to coming back to your place this year.

You need to jumper through to the battery + and - on the esc for this to work.

So what you are saying is you are carrying current over the esc servo lead and jumpering onto the battery trace?

The bec should be kicking this voltage down (as with a 7.4 pack) shouldn't it? So you can't be going through the bec?

It can't be going straight to the motor since the motor is AC anyway (BL)

I'm not an electrical engineer but a pretty good one explained this to me (thanks Steve). Here is this mechanical engineers attempt at explaining the situation without giving a definitive answer on how TOUR rules will address the problem. Steve is working on a rules update as I type.

In normal operation the BEC works to knock down the voltage of the main battery pack when it is "feeding" the receiver and servo. The BEC's in some ESC's have the equivalent of diodes in the circuit which only allow current flow in one direction, the "normal direction" from the main battery to the receiver / servo. Other ESC's do not have this protection and may actually flow a small amount of current in the opposite direction from the receiver through the BEC to the positive input to the motor control circuit in the ESC. This can only happen if the ESC switch is in the ON position and the receiver pack voltage is higher than the main pack voltage (which will be the case with 1S as the main battery).

I've done some testing on several brands of ESC's. As I said, some don't allow any "reverse" voltage when the ESC switch is ON, some show a voltage but it drops to zero if a load is applied (meaning no current flow under load) and some show voltage and allow current flow under load (will actually operate the motor IF and only IF the tires aren't in contact with anything). All the ESC manufacturers we've spoken to say running a receiver pack and leaving the ESC switch ON is a good way to potentially ruin an ESC. None of the ESC's show this "reverse" voltage if the ESC switch is off.

Also, in the case where the ESC "back feeds" voltage, when the ESC switch is ON the voltage is measurable at the main battery leads into the ESC (since any voltage is applied to the positive input to the motor control circuit). So checking voltage into the ESC with the main battery connected and the ESC switch on would result in a higher voltage than if you measured the main battery voltage alone. So if one were to check voltage at the ESC or at the connector (with the connector connected) with the car in track ready condition you could tell if the total voltage available to run the motor exceeded the 4.22v maximum or not.

Bigchuck, looks like you have done a good job on this. Thanks for the effort. Looks like there will be two voltage checks in tech, one with esc switch on and then off.
Thanks TOUR for the work to make a even playing field.

I simple rule would be If a RX pack is being use the ESC switch cannot be turned on. You are disqualified if its on, your fault or not.....little tape on the switch, and it will never come on....

I wouldn't want a tech person responsible for shorting out a ESC trying to check voltage!

I simple rule would be If a RX pack is being use the ESC switch cannot be turned on. You are disqualified if its on, your fault or not.....little tape on the switch, and it will never come on....

I wouldn't want a tech person responsible for shorting out a ESC trying to check voltage!This mat already be in here somewhere but if you run a rec. pack and you have both the rec. pack and esc on at the same time is their more voltage being put out is that what this whole topic is school me please.

Neither our SmartBoost or our upcoming Havoc 1S esc feed voltage back into the battery, according to Bob.

If there are additional questions that have not been addressed, I could have Bob answer them---either here or in the Novak Support thread.

This mat already be in here somewhere but if you run a rec. pack and you have both the rec. pack and esc on at the same time is their more voltage being put out is that what this whole topic is school me please.


All this started because a driver at a big race ran a very large rx pack. He happened to be very fast that weekend. Someone stated he was cheating by feeding voltage back thru the esc.......As best I can guess the only way this could possibly happen if the RX pack and esc switch are in the on position. I personally would never turn both on, because you run a very good chance in burning down the ESC. But some ESC both switches can be turned on with no ill effects.......I think its stupid, if you know this adds voltage even small amounts THIS IS CHEATING!!!!!

Simple rules would be limit the MAH of the RX pack and switch position to off on the ESC with RX packs and boosters!

Jflack,

This is an excerpt from the revised TOUR rules that addresses this issue:

Voltage Limits:

· 1s Li-Po batteries may be charged to a maximum of 4.22v.
· 2s Li-Po batteries may be charged to a maximum of 8.44v.

· Voltage verification do be done as part of standard pre-tech race procedure

· 4.22V per cell is not only the maximum voltage per cell that Li-Po batteries may be charged to......it is the maximum voltage per cell allowed to be presented to the motor drive circuitry for the purpose of powering your car.............period.

· Any attempt to use a secondary source of power (receiver pack battery or booster) to drive the motor at a higher voltage than 4.22V per cell is prohibited. No sneak circuits, no gray areas. This is blatant cheating.

· If any violation of this rule is suspected, the race director has the right to perform an “in-line test” of the car’s operating voltage on the starting grid. A connector wired in the configuration below will detect all voltage influences on the motor drive circuitry.

All this started because a driver at a big race ran a very large rx pack. He happened to be very fast that weekend. Someone stated he was cheating by feeding voltage back thru the esc.......As best I can guess the only way this could possibly happen if the RX pack and esc switch are in the on position. I personally would never turn both on, because you run a very good chance in burning down the ESC. But some ESC both switches can be turned on with no ill effects.......I think its stupid, if you know this adds voltage even small amounts THIS IS CHEATING!!!!!

Simple rules would be limit the MAH of the RX pack and switch position to off on the ESC with RX packs and boosters!
Ok I undertand now so if you run a rx pack or booster you should only have that switch on and not the esc.

Ok I undertand now so if you run a rx pack or booster you should only have that switch on and not the esc.

If you run a receiver pack, you should also run a BEC (Novak makes a 3 amp and 5 amp BEC) , which has a switch wired in. Some people run the receiver pack straight to the receiver and have no problems. The BEC will take the 8.4 volts from the receiver pack and drop it to 6 volts. Most of the boosters that I saw last year didn't have switches built in, so you had to wire a switch into it. I'm pretty sure they all have switches standard with them now. I saw a few speedos burn up at Greenville and everyone had said that they had both switches on when they went up in smoke.

Now to give you an answer to your question, leave the speedo switch off.

Thanks that is what I figured .