Novak would appreciate some feedback on the success and popularity (and problems?) of 1S racing events around the country. We will be releasing info on our upcoming Havoc 1S speed control (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=2897748&postcount=453) later this month.

We would also like to offer a couple of attractively priced systems---to make getting into the sport more affordable for new racers. I have read comments here about different single cell events from around the country, but those comments are scattered all over various forum areas.

For example: What are the most popular motor winds used in these spec classes? Are these 1S events primarily targeted to new racers, or more experienced users? Are race promoters setting up events for the inexperienced new-comers so they can have fun and stay in the hobby? Etc?

Any inputs or suggestions are appreciated. To make this more fun, I will (myownself;)) award a new Havoc 1S controller to the member who offers the most helpful observations.

Check the general section for help is on the way. There is good info on what will be used in 1s racing.
Butch

one class growing every week in florida is 13.5 COT and 7.5 in time will grow in florida..

true entry level would be 17.5 1 s though any help in that area would help to draw in new blood.

Novak would appreciate some feedback on the success and popularity (and problems?) of 1S racing events around the country. We will be releasing info on our upcoming Havoc 1S speed control (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=2897748&postcount=453) later this month.

We would also like to offer a couple of attractively priced systems---to make getting into the sport more affordable for new racers. I have read comments here about different single cell events from around the country, but those comments are scattered all over various forum areas.

For example: What are the most popular motor winds used in these spec classes? Are these 1S events primarily targeted to new racers, or more experienced users? Are race promoters setting up events for the inexperienced new-comers so they can have fun and stay in the hobby? Etc?

Any inputs or suggestions are appreciated. To make this more fun, I will (myownself;)) award a new Havoc 1S controller to the member who offers the most helpful observations.

We dont run 1 cell here yet, as most racers here bought 2 cell lipos that they could also use in other cars and trucks and other tracks (we race dirt oval), but 17.5/27T and 13.5/19T have been our biggest spec classes, with some interest in changing the "entry level" classes to 21.5. This past winter was our first "racing season" running primarily brushless/lipo equipment. For the "advanced and novice" classes, we had put a 17.5/27T limit, and for the "expert" classes a 13.5/19T limit. Open mod has pretty much dissapeared at this point.

A Novice class was also offered, where a 17.5, 27T or rtr motor could be used. Battery had to be a stick pack, an Orion 2400 2 Cell lipo, or a 1 cell lipo. This class was geared for the guys buying RTR trucks (mostly the Evader EXT). I didnt pay attention to see what kind of turnout there was for this class, but I do know that several beginners that I had helped out got really involved with the racing and upgraded fairly quickly to higher end equipment. Not because they needed to, but because they wanted to get the best stuff they could get.

I believe offering combos in 21.5 and 17.5 would be most beneficial for the 1 cell versions. From what I have seen, they racers running 13.5 are buying higher end ESC's (GTB, Sphere TC, SPX, SXX, and RS Pro). At my local shop, they have sold a ton of the havoc 17.5 systems to all the racers just getting into racing and the guys replacing their RTR ESC's. There are also a bunch of the 17.5 racers that were buying just the Havoc ESC because it sells for around $100, and for most of the dirt ovals in our area (short tracks), it seems to be plenty of ESC for the level they are racing at.

As far as special events, we offered the lower level class and anyone who wouldve been classified in the skill level opted to run the "advanced" level class, so that class has yet to be offered since.

one class growing every week in florida is 13.5 COT and 7.5 in time will grow in florida..

true entry level would be 17.5 1 s though any help in that area would help to draw in new blood.

A Havoc 1S SS17.5 Pro system is definitely one that we are considering. Our primary goal with this product is to offer a system for the potential new customer, priced attractively, so that "sticker shock" doesn't scare him off before he has time to get involved and enjoy competing.

The economy stinks and 1S racing could offer novices an opportunity to try spec events without making a huge upfront investment in electronics. I hope local RDs and track owners are offering these newbies events that allow them to feel the fun and excitement without being trounced by more experienced drivers.

(I can dream, can't I.....)

Thanks, Ovalnator, for your comments. We realize that 1S racing is just being introduced around the country. Getting new users involved, affordably, is hugely important for the hobby to grow.

Purchasing high end electronic set-ups (including the Booster) for 1S events could cost a new user in the range of $300, or more. Which is fine, when they decide to continue racing. A cool feature of an entry-level brushless system is that it maintains its value for resale to someone else just getting involved. Therefore, the net cost to the customer for "moving up" is quite reasonable.

Because of the TOUR rules package you will see 17.5 1C, 13.5 1C, 10.5 1C, and 7.5 1C. These are going to be the major classes in the oval world. They will be the biggest classes at major carpet tracks around the country, and will make up in my estimate over 80% of the racers this year and going forward. The most popular being 13.5 1C, and 10.5 1C. 17.5 is a starter class, and the 7.5 class will be popular in Florida as a weekly class, and around the country as a "mod" class.

My suggestion to Novak.... Create a small footprint, adjustable timing speedo that has the booster built in and is cheap. Also be able to turn the internal buster off and run a receiver pack. If you can get a deal with Danny (SMC), or Jim (Thunder Power) and offer a 17.5 -10.5 motor, speedo, battery package for around $150 that would be great. Not sure if that is possible, or likely, but that would be great for the new guys and budget racers.

Also for oval keep in touch with the TOUR rules, and the people that run that. They are some of the biggest promoters in the oval world, and can help push your products.

That is my suggestion.

Joel White

Hi Joel, thanks for the input. I have read thru the TOUR rules and they have talked to our tech guys. We are looking forward to supporting this organization, as we have supported other Oval groups.

The reason we are adapting our Havoc platform for the 1S esc is that the SmartBoost circuitry takes up a lot of room when incorporated into the esc design. But, including it inside the controller, does eliminate an additional electronic gizmo for the newbie to pay for and deal with.

Right now, a cheap, small, advanced timing, Boost/1S enabled system w/ battery included, receiver pack optional is not doable at this time. However, our new 1S systems (w/ ROAR approved spec motors) would be an ideal companion for battery companies offering a quality, 1S lipo pack.

any time frame on the ballistic spec winds?

any time frame on the ballistic spec winds?

We should be shipping the Ballistic Spec 13.5 and 17.5 winds by the end of this month. The 10.5 and 21.5 versions to follow shortly.

They have already been submitted for ROAR approval. We were just waiting for the colored stator inserts for photos/press release.

i started running one cell last yr. and have been running the losi micro t batt would love to have a speed control that has everything built in.

Novak Two

Our club has raced a 105' run-line flat track that we had to setup and tear down for each bi-weekly club race. The senior members of the club transitioned to the one cell this past spring, we had made the trip to the Iron Maximus race in April, and love the fact that no equalizing is needed as with 2 cell lipos. The Maximus race had I believe 42 racers registered for this class, with no other class coming even close for numbers registered. It made for a better feel for the race with registration numbers per class matching that of the late 90's. Our main class had been 17.5 4-cell.

Things are getting better in our club as of this fall. A permanent facility with a banked oval with a 100'+ run-line is being built this august/september. This is a result of your brushless motor/ESC packaging and is being helped further by the advent of the 1-cell lipo. The racing is closer and more people are having fun and laughing our butts off with the closeness of the fields. So our standard class matches the TOUR rules except we mandate as a club the SMC 4000mah, 3.7v, 25C battery and Novak 13.5 SS motor, GTB ESC's only. But come january we will be racing a 10.5 class. By that time we will have chosen which motor and battery combo to run. We might switch to the ballistic 10.5 with perhaps a new high end adjustable timing Novak ESC(hint, hint,nudge,nudge), but still with a 1-cell battery

WE are a small group of hard core racers with members from the original off roading years of 1988, We have kept the club going by sheer enjoyment and now will see some great things in the future. Our club membership grew this past year and with a permanent facility will have the potential to double our membership.

Continue producing the best products possible and we will continue to support and use them

Gerald

Thanks Gerald. So many fine comments here.

I will be circulating all comments to our Engineering and Management staff.

novak2 you are heading in the right direction..i wish i could tell you that 17.5 1 s would have new blood lined up to run in it..but i can't....13.5 1s cot class is slow enough for new and old blood and should in time become a large enough class where you will sell some esc/motor combos for sure...7.5 will be pro guys only (vultures) and 10.5 will have the same vultures as well

novak2 you are heading in the right direction..i wish i could tell you that 17.5 1 s would have new blood lined up to run in it..but i can't....13.5 1s cot class is slow enough for new and old blood and should in time become a large enough class where you will sell some esc/motor combos for sure...7.5 will be pro guys only (vultures) and 10.5 will have the same vultures as well

we are using the 17.5 for our spec class its pretty close to the same speed as a spec motor and batts.

novak2 you are heading in the right direction..i wish i could tell you that 17.5 1 s would have new blood lined up to run in it..but i can't....13.5 1s cot class is slow enough for new and old blood and should in time become a large enough class where you will sell some esc/motor combos for sure...7.5 will be pro guys only (vultures) and 10.5 will have the same vultures as well

The 13.5 would be one of the systems to offer. I don't think that any of the "vultures" will be interested in an entry level system, anyway.....;) Maybe, if one cell becomes more popular, 17.5 events could be reserved for new racers.

I'm not sure that the Havoc 1S could be safely used down to 7.5---we are still doing some testing. We spec both the Havoc 2S and 3S down to 8.5, only.

I have another question:

Of the popular, or approved, one cell "packs" used currently---what battery plugs are installed by the manufacturers? More experienced users replace both plugs with Deans or some other quality plug, but what are the new guys doing?

Novak Two

When we were down to Maximus we saw that the Deans that comes with the SMC 1-cell works great and that is what we installed when we made the change over. It helps when I good quality connector comes with the battery right from the factory. At our club the new members lean on the senior members and we go out of our way to point them in the right direction.

we use the deans connectors,I know the smc and thunderpower packs both come with the deans plugs.the 13.5 class in rockhill SC is taking off very well,we have had 2 novak boosters fail so everyones going to the lipo pack for now.the boosters for some reason cut-off about 3 mins into a run,it put my car head-on into the wall when it did it.checked voltage on the battery and it was 3.88 when it happened.unplugged the booster and it all worked fine again.have you seen this before novak two??

WEll Our 13.5 1s Racing is growing and the speeds are getting faster every week. On our track you can slingshot with the draft. No one can beleive it. But yes the draft does exist in RC without it you cant make the pass with out it. I posted some video up on the 21.5 pro shoot out topic and it shows both 21.5 and 13.5 1s.

21.5 2s turn an average of 7.15's
13.5 1s turn and average of 8.15


Fast times
21.5 2c 6.96
13.5 1s 7.84

I think it is very good class even on the big track and vet racers are loving it 3-4 wide and the draft make the racing alot more exciting to watch then the real stuff!

deans

I sure hope we go 1c out west,oval racing has declined major out west this may help if promoted right and done during the off months.

and done during the off months.

LOL Koz! This ain't the EAST COAST - we don't have any OFF MONTHS

I've run at least 2 oval races EVERY MONTH for the past 25 months I believe!!

....it sure would be nice to see OVAL take back off in the NORTHERN end of the state.

(BTW - Lindsay was a good (but LONG) show, HUMPTY, John B, and Ken C kicked things to a NEW level!~)

Im sure they did, too bad i won;t waste my cash coming down there anymore too fishy in the 21.5 class.Sure miss pro mod.. Hopefully we can get some 1c 7.5 going.

In upstate NY on an 88ft. run line we are running a novak esc and motor only 1S 17.5 cot class generally as an entry level class with a great turnout. We also run 1S 13.5 pro class with a great turnout as well.

I think doing a 1S Havoc with a 17.5 would be a great deal for people looking to move up to the brushless or just coming in to the hobby.

The reason we are adapting our Havoc platform for the 1S esc is that the SmartBoost circuitry takes up a lot of room when incorporated into the esc design. But, including it inside the controller, does eliminate an additional electronic gizmo for the newbie to pay for and deal with.
I (fairly recently) got back into oval racing after 10 years off - bought stuff to go to the 'Birds with last year, and all I had was 19T/4-cell stuff. LiPo/brushless stuff was still kinda new to me down here. Then, I started hearing "everybody's (all the tracks) are going to brushless/LiPo", leaving me with four 4-cell packs that I can't run anywhere, three motors that I can't run anywhere, because there's no place to run 4-cell/19T any more. So I was kind of forced into buying: two 2S 3200's at the 'Birds (at $100 for the two packs and a charger - not too bad a deal), an ESC and a motor that I *just* purchased (for about $125 used - again, not a bad deal), and now I have to get *another* "gizmo" to get it to run right that costs in the neighborhood of $40. So now I have to spend MORE money if I want to play. I know, I know...if you can't afford it, don't play...but...I am a die-hard oval stock car guy. Not into nitro, not into off-road, not really into Touring cars. But just the fact that these things (stuff to run with) just keeps adding more and more to my "hobby". My girlfriend is to the point where she wants me to get out and sell everything....LOL...but...she's the one that bought me my Spektrum and my charger...:D

I remember waaaay back in the day when there was no such thing as a BEC, you HAD to run a separate battery/pack to the receiver. Then things got technical, and the BEC eliminated a LOT of weight from oval cars back in the late '80s. Now, I HAVE to get this Booster thing to get my receiver to work if I want it to work? *Sigh*....

Im sure they did, too bad i won;t waste my cash coming down there anymore too fishy in the 21.5 class.Sure miss pro mod.. Hopefully we can get some 1c 7.5 going.


Well...all it's going to take is losing a few more West Coast oval racers in the southern end, and OVAL RACING in CA will be just like the racing in Nor-Cal (GONE)

Unless ORION releases a 1 cell LIPO battery in the next 2 years - my races won't be even considering that direction.

However, I TRUELY wish the 17.5 2 cell class would come back...we don't need 7.5 1 cell for speed!

Humpty and Collins ran 17.5 TRUCK and went 80 laps. I'd LOVE to see that class come back with the car bodies! It was awesome to watch the WHEELS hauling butt!

Sorry to hear you won't be back!! But, we'll go on!

Too bad,be nice if oval nation wide could be on the same page,i'll be outta california soon enough,i'll keep the property's for rental income..

BTW-yes 17.5 would get me down again for sure.

Koz what do you mean too fishy

I'll give you a call this week.
kevin

I think once carpet season hits (only 2 months now!) 13.5 1c will be THE class. Even the second half of last season saw it be the biggest class at many races. At Winterblast in CT, 13.5 1 cell was the largest class. East Ridge Raceway in Rochester, NY had a lot of people trying it. The 13.5 1 cell class brought back some racers and even brought some new (to pan car) racers in where I race near Jamestown, NY.

Many of the racers in the Jamestown area went with a Havoc system. A 1 cell specific system which doesn't require a receiver pack or booster would really help this class, and maybe a novice (17.5) class take off in my area. Oddly enough, brushed/nimh still has a strong footing. As of now, it still costs quite a bit to make the jump to brushless/lipo, but if a good motor/speedo package could be put together I think more would try it. So, as far as motors, 13.5 and 17.5 combos I think are what would be best for the Havoc 1s system.

Matt

Here, in Omaha, I ran a 4-cell GTB with the switch removed. I also used a parkflyer battery as a recever pack and the switch harness that everyone gets with a radio.

Hey JimmyMack,

On the having to buy new equipment, I feel your pain, but really, the 4 cell packs you bought were gonna be out dated anyways and you were gonna have to buy new ones to be competitive. Buying 2 cell lipo's wasn't that bad of a move imo. You can still sell those and get some money back. Used nimh cells were never worth much. You really only need one 1 cell pack if you're running one class by the way.

You probably know, but, if you run a Novak esc you don't need a booster or rx pack. I think the booster Novak makes is really made for other esc's, not Novaks.

The SmartBoost module can be used with other mfgs escs that were not designed for low voltage operation. However, some RTR electronics do not operate well on low voltage either.

Someone upgrading his RTR by purchasing a BL system to replace the cheap electronics that come with the vehicle, may find that the receiver/servo need a booster to work on a single cell pack.

We have incorporated the SB circuitry into the Havoc 1S---this includes the 1S lipo cut off for those who need it.

Our club with the 105' run-line runs 5 minute races. Some of us are using Futaba 9650 servos with our GTB's and 13.5, no boosters or receiver packs and having no problems.

Loose is fast

I have a 13.5 single cell with a Novak 4 cell GTB. I previous had a LRP esc so I was using a rx pack. When I changed over, I turned on the car with no rx pack and now the only thing that runs is the motor and partial steering? Any idea why, I don't mind the rx pack, but I'd rather go without it or a booster if at all possible?

I think a new affordable brushless speedo would be great.I have been out of racing for over 10 years and a new track opened up near me.So I got out my old hyperdrive H10RS and was only able to race twice before the oval track was shut down because of no interested racers.I myself have been hit hard by the economy and had to either buy a new car or brushless system to race.I couldnt afford both.I think if a affordable system was offered it would really help the oval scene.

I am planing on trying some single cell 12th scale oval this winter. Being i am not a "modified" kind of guy, I would go for a 13.5 or a 10.5 set up, but willing to try a 17.5 if needed. I have herd good things about 12th scale with a 13.5 single cell, so i am basing my starting point there. I don't have much experience with brushless and lipo so i am going at it slowly.:thumbsup:

the 4 cell packs you bought were gonna be out dated anyways and you were gonna have to buy new ones to be competitive. Buying 2 cell lipo's wasn't that bad of a move imo.Yeah...I knew that when I bought everything ;) The four 4-cell packs came with the car when I bought it (along with a Tekin FX, several sets of tires, springs, shocks, four bodies, 3 brushed motors, a 13.5 - that I ended up selling...LOL... - etc.). I *knew* I was gonna have to go LiPo/brushless if I wanted to go racing again (and planned on that stuff), but didn't think I'd need yet *another* gadget/gizmo just to make everything work.

Anyways...I'm lookin' forward to gettin' everything running right and racing competitively again ;)

I have a 13.5 single cell with a Novak 4 cell GTB. I previous had a LRP esc so I was using a rx pack. When I changed over, I turned on the car with no rx pack and now the only thing that runs is the motor and partial steering? Any idea why, I don't mind the rx pack, but I'd rather go without it or a booster if at all possible?

Hi Jay, If you believe that your Novak item is at fault you may need to email tech@teamnovak.com with your question.

Please make your initial email as detailed as possible. Include:

~ warranty claim
~ speed control (brand/model)
~ motor (brand/wind)
~ gearing
~ radio system (receiver/transmitter)
~ servo used
~ vehicle
~ battery, brand (c rating/capacity)
~ any external modules (BEC/brand, Glitch Buster)

~ other important info: water damage, corrosive chemical sprays, excess heat, etc

The more information you provide in your first email, the more quickly tech support can offer you assistance.

PS: I am regularly posting this information above for anyone who may require technical assistance, In many situations, the tech support guys were not getting nearly enough info to help trouble-shoot problems.

I think a new affordable brushless speedo would be great.I have been out of racing for over 10 years and a new track opened up near me.So I got out my old hyperdrive H10RS and was only able to race twice before the oval track was shut down because of no interested racers.I myself have been hit hard by the economy and had to either buy a new car or brushless system to race.I couldnt afford both.I think if a affordable system was offered it would really help the oval scene.

The best untapped market for attracting more oval participants may be guys who once raced, but lost interest in the sport. Single cell spec events, with an inexpensive BL system, might encourage a resurgence of interest.

A win-win for all involved.

The best untapped market for attracting more oval participants may be guys who once raced, but lost interest in the sport. Single cell spec events, with an inexpensive BL system, might encourage a resurgence of interest.

A win-win for all involved.

Awesome and so true! New racers are VERY hard to come by and very rare from I have seen the past dozen years or so. But the return of past racers seems to be the source of 'new' racers. Some time off from something somebody loved in the past surely sparks renewed interest. We survived 1-run 1700SCE's, 1 run tires, etc... things are the best now than they have ever been. Just got to get the word out to some old-time racers...

Awesome and so true! New racers are VERY hard to come by and very rare from I have seen the past dozen years or so. But the return of past racers seems to be the source of 'new' racers. Some time off from something somebody loved in the past surely sparks renewed interest. We survived 1-run 1700SCE's, 1 run tires, etc... things are the best now than they have ever been. Just got to get the word out to some old-time racers...

True, true. In attempting to please hard-core, brushless racers, products have become too needlessly expensive and complex for beginners, or "returners", who just want to enjoy a fun day at the track.

Our new Havoc Spec series' of products and systems are geared for these potential segments, in the hopes of re-building participation in the hobby.

Maybe tracks should advertise a "Bring an Old Oval Racer" to race day!!

Free entry (and a hotdog) for both....:thumbsup:

Thanks, Ovalnator, for your comments. We realize that 1S racing is just being introduced around the country. Getting new users involved, affordably, is hugely important for the hobby to grow.

Purchasing high end electronic set-ups (including the Booster) for 1S events could cost a new user in the range of $300, or more. Which is fine, when they decide to continue racing. A cool feature of an entry-level brushless system is that it maintains its value for resale to someone else just getting involved. Therefore, the net cost to the customer for "moving up" is quite reasonable.


Thats actually why they have been selling a ton of the Havoc/17.5 combos and 13.5 combos. A) They cost about $150 bucks, which less than the cost of the higher end ESC's. B) They include the SS pro Brushless Motor...the same motor that comes with the GTB Version of the combo, and the same motor everyone else is buying (if they are using a Novak motor), so if/when they do upgrade, they already have the "high end" motor.

One thing I know several racers in my area have mentioned wanting is a removable Sensor cable, which appears to have been addressed with the new ballistic series motors. There have been a couple racers who have had problems with the cable (or perhaps the sensor board?), and have had to send the motor out due to not being able to replace it.

In my opinion, offering a 1 Cell Havoc combo in 13.5, 17.5 and 21.5 configurations (much like you already do with the current Havoc), would cover all the bases. There are some tracks where you can get away with just a 21.5 or a 13.5, so to offer just one configuration might limit maximum sales. I imagine this system would be popular with 1/12 racing, and possibly entry level TC racing (if such a thing even exists anymore).

We will be offering the 13.5 and 17.5 Havoc 1S systems for sure. Haven't quite decided on the 21.5 version. As, single cell racing grows, we may hear of more events for the beginners.

The best untapped market for attracting more oval participants may be guys who once raced, but lost interest in the sport. Single cell spec events, with an inexpensive BL system, might encourage a resurgence of interest.

A win-win for all involved.

This is true thought I was done then the track has been running the 1cell 13.5 class so thought I would give it a go agine this season.:wave:

Jake

Check the general section for help is on the way. There is good info on what will be used in 1s racing.
Butch


I am re-reading this thread from the beginning. I must have over-looked this post. I can't find the "general section".

I need a link.

Sorry, that is the general disscussion thread.
Butch

At the risk of sounding stupid,what is the difference between the GTB and the Havoc?

At the risk of sounding stupid,what is the difference between the GTB and the Havoc?

The most significant difference is that the GTBs (incl SLYDR) have one third the on resistance of the Havocs, with a 3.5 T motor limit (vs 8.5 for Havocs).

Novak Brushless ESC Spec Chart (http://www.teamnovak.com/products/esc_spec_chart/esc_spec_chart.htm)

Which motor platform should we offer in the 1S systems, the SS Pros or the new Ballistic Specs?

The street price of a system with the SS Pro would be $5-$6 less than using the Ballistic (which is more costly to mfg)?

However, the Ballistic is completely rebuildable and offers much more ability to adjust timing, etc.

Price or Features.....?