1) speeds?

we are having a friendly discussion on speeds and lap times

10.5 1 cell i hear is a tad slower than the current 2 cell 21.5 cars

can anyone who has ran this combo fill us in?

we are debating on gearing up for 7.5 or 10.5

i think we are a lil fast now with the 17.5 2 cell combo....but on the other hand i realy like the seperation we have now between 21.5 and 17.5 everyone seems to just fit in realy well in either class...i worry that some if not all the 21.5 guys will feel the 10.5 1 cell is a good fit..only to get discourgaed by running with the vultures and getting cursed out on the stand for wrecking a vulture....

i'm also affraid that the 7.5 1 cell combo may be faster than 2 cell 17.5 is now.....that would be a step back ..

So, looking at the TOUR Rules package, it says "ROAR Motor rules", but I can't get to their Web site here at work.

What manufacturers' 13.5 motors will be allowed to run in TOUR events? I want - no, make that *NEED* - to start getting my brushless stuff together.

Jimmy, most likely the rules "ROAR Motor rule" means ROAR approved motors.

Kat, good point about the vultures, we will still have the regional classes as defined. And we could continue to do what has been done at Strickland with the 21.5 truck class ( aka 21.5 sportman ) my .01 adjusted for inflation.

At our local level I don't expect much if any 17.5 action because of our track sizes as you have stated in the past. I expect 13.5 to be our entry level, even I can drive at that speed, most of the time.

Jimmy, here are the current approved motors.

Super Stock Hacker Brushless USA Hacker E40 - 13.5T 22.5 February 25, 2008
Super Stock Losi Losi Xcelorin 13.5 LOSAB9405 19.2 February 29, 2008
Super Stock LRP LRP Vector X11 Stockspec 13.5T #50840, black motor shaft 22.5 February 27, 2008
Super Stock Novak Novak 3413SS 13.5 Pro 21.0 February 15, 2008
Super Stock Orion Orion Vortex 2008 Stock 13.5 P/N ORI28141 - Rotor without fan 19.5 June 6, 2008
Super Stock Schumacher USA Speed Passion SPF135 Ultra Sportsman Stock 21.7 May 8, 2008
Super Stock Tekin Tekin Redline 13.5 Type S P/N TT2252 19.0 July 22, 2008
Super Stock Trinity Trinity TRI 10210 13.5T (blue timing plate) 20.5 May 20, 2008
Super Stock/13.5 Spec Trinity Trinity TRI 10413 Pulse 13.5

1) speeds?

we are having a friendly discussion on speeds and lap times

10.5 1 cell i hear is a tad slower than the current 2 cell 21.5 cars

can anyone who has ran this combo fill us in?

Kat...I have run some 10.5 1cell and the lap times on 180ft center line flat carpet was high 3.8's to low 3.9's up front and finishing with 4.1's to 4.2

I have not run 21.5 2cell so I don't know exactly what they will do

My 10.5 1 cell car (novak motor, novak speedo, smc spec pack, 36 oz., no wing) ran a 60 flat at our track (165 foot runline, 22 foot infield, carpet)
My 21.5 car (novak motor, tekin speedo, smc spec pack, 38 oz., no wing) ran 61 flat.

Didn't spend much time tweaking the 10.5 car, so it could have been a second or two faster.

For open battery I think the jump from the spec pack to 3200 40c in 2c might be a touch less than the jump from 1c spec pack to wide open 5000 40c. So that gap would narrow a bit more.

Allan, thank you very much. Like I said, I can't get to ROAR's Web site here at work, so have no idea what are "ROAR-approved" motors. But thank you very much for posting that info.

Now I can look something besides a Novak...;)

How much difference do you think there will be front 17.5/2c to 7.5/1c in lap times?

Well with the 21.5 2C and the 10.5 1C being so close in speed, I would think that 17.5 2C and 7.5 1C would be close.

21.5 - 10.5 = 11 winds diff
17.5 - 7.5 = 10 winds diff

I dont think it is an exact science, but I guess it may be close???

J-Dub,

That was a good way to look at it. I don't know if there is an exact science to calculating it, but since I'm an electrical engineer (or used to be).......I'll take shot at it.

I figure, in rough numbers, at 1/2 of the voltage you need 1/2 of the winds to equal the same speed.

Now this isn't exactly true. For example a 17.5 motor runs at about 2200 RPM/Volt. At 8.4V, that' 18,480 RPM. A 7.5 motor runs at about 5800 RPM/Volt. So with a single cell, at 3.7V, your looking at abot 21,460 RPM. This is about 15% faster, plus it is lighter.

So be looking for speeds approx. 15-20% quicker than 17.5 2-cell. But only time will tell.

Steve

i cant wait to see some of the pros run 7.5! ill run it also now and then but im not a pro nor do i clam to be lol

i have run both 10.5 and 21.5 at easley. My personal best in 21.5 is a 39 4:03 (qualifier) and in 10.5 its 39 4:01. Others have been 40 at 4:04 in a qualifier so they are very close. I think the 10.5 car could be right there ontop of 21.5 with a little more work.

On the dyno a 21.5 at 8.4 volts and a 10.5 at 4.2 volts are almost identical.

On the dyno a 21.5 at 8.4 volts and a 10.5 at 4.2 volts are almost identical.

So if thats the case, 10.5 1 cell is the new 21.5 speed class and an 8.5 (rumored to be a 7.5) will be the new equivalent of the current 2 cell 17.5 class.

Thats interesting data, I heard read a couple places that the 10.5 was actually a tick
slower.

I think the 13.5 COT class is a nice addition as well, good speed for those getting started or on a budget, A class for every, budget and skill level on a national level, plus the "promotors option" classes at regional/local events makes sense.

Well with the 21.5 2C and the 10.5 1C being so close in speed, I would think that 17.5 2C and 7.5 1C would be close.

21.5 - 10.5 = 11 winds diff
17.5 - 7.5 = 10 winds diff

I dont think it is an exact science, but I guess it may be close???

I think we need to wait until 7.5 is run on carpet to get a better idea.

So I have a question.....guys like me (categorize that however you feel appropriate) like the idea and concept of the 13.5 1c class. I'm excited to run Dale's new body and have always enjoyed the close racing at that relative speed. What will the feedback be if a guy like myself, Deel, Jody Miller, Behler, Ozzy, etc. settle in and run that class? I'm still planning on the 21.5 2c stuff for the BRL...but will guys like Klyber, Mickel(examples) feel like they're being squeezed somewhat inappropriately? Remember, by trying to fit all remaining oval racers into 2 or 3 classes(like the old days) we will have some uncomfortable situations to deal with.
With another little one on the way, my tuning time will more than likely be cut again...just trying to prepare for what the next chapter brings I guess.

For the record, I'm not speculating or insinuating that I would be faster than Klyber...just illustrating a meeting of 2 guys that will potentially fit in the same class.

dk

I am fine with anyone running the 13.5 class. It would be just like it always has been. At big events the "non pro's" will run 13.5, and 10.5. The "pro's" will run 10.5 and 7.5. That makes it a big deal to be in the show for 13.5. The way it should be!!

Joel White

So if thats the case, 10.5 1 cell is the new 21.5 speed class and an 8.5 (rumored to be a 7.5) will be the new equivalent of the current 2 cell 17.5 class.

Thats interesting data, I heard read a couple places that the 10.5 was actually a tick
slower.

I think the 13.5 COT class is a nice addition as well, good speed for those getting started or on a budget, A class for every, budget and skill level on a national level, plus the "promotors option" classes at regional/local events makes sense.

exactly so if you run 17.5 2 cell now 1 cell 7.5 will be the replacement class...unless your dusty and use a kid as an excuse to cherry pick ! :rolleyes:

you guys that ran the 10.5 1 cell how did the rollout change, up or down as to 21.5?

and dose anyone have a setup for 10.5.

What will the feedback be if a guy like myself, Deel, Jody Miller, Behler, Ozzy, etc. settle in and run that class?

dk

I'll definitely make fun of you for sandbagging. :hat:

Tekin on 12 boost for both 10.5 and 21.5...rollout....the same....or atleast close enough for government work

the biggest difference i have seen in the two classes is that when you come up off the corner in 10.5 you dont have all the voltage to break the tire loose, no insane rip. Its still fast but theres alot of finess involved to get the car to run efficiently where in 21.5 you had alot more battery to pull you up out of the corner.

C'mon Kat...2 kids! That's it...Kemp and Miller Cherry Picking Motorsports has formed. Kat is our team PR guy. Look for us beating up on 8 year olds with sliders and Florida guys. LOL
...And for you Mr, Simkins...it's all welcome, just glad to see you back in the Midwest again.

dk

C'mon Kat...2 kids! That's it...Kemp and Miller Cherry Picking Motorsports has formed. Kat is our team PR guy. Look for us beating up on 8 year olds with sliders and Florida guys. LOL
...And for you Mr, Simkins...it's all welcome, just glad to see you back in the Midwest again.

dk

can i join?

sorry alan old washed up cherry picking racers need apply...

sorry alan old washed up cherry picking racers need apply...

ok i will wait till i am washed up then. thanks:thumbsup:

So I have a question.....guys like me (categorize that however you feel appropriate) like the idea and concept of the 13.5 1c class. I'm excited to run Dale's new body and have always enjoyed the close racing at that relative speed.
dk

Me too and a lot more I'll bet.

So I have a question.....What will the feedback be if a guy like myself, Deel, Jody Miller, Behler, Ozzy, etc. settle in and run that class? I'm still planning on the 21.5 2c stuff for the BRL...but will guys like Klyber, Mickel(examples) feel like they're being squeezed somewhat inappropriately? dk

I think this class is good for the guys that have always enjoyed the speed of stock racing. I personally like the challange of racing with some of the better racers, even DK. I don't have the talent to run with the real fast guys in the Mod class, but enjoy racing with them in the 21.5 class. I think it gives the Novice guys a nice class to step up to later.

Tekin on 12 boost for both 10.5 and 21.5...rollout....the same....or atleast close enough for government work

the biggest difference i have seen in the two classes is that when you come up off the corner in 10.5 you dont have all the voltage to break the tire loose, no insane rip. Its still fast but theres alot of finess involved to get the car to run efficiently where in 21.5 you had alot more battery to pull you up out of the corner.

i would agree!!! we have tested this on the our oval and drafting and making sure the car is perfect is key to fast laps. Also it is extremely hard to break away. Great CLASS!!!!

Tekin on 12 boost for both 10.5 and 21.5...rollout....the same....or atleast close enough for government work.

I have a novak esc would the rollout still be close to 21.5 as I do not have the adjustable timing like the Tekin.

Thanks for your help.

Dusty, the only rule is that you have to run a cherry picking pink, er, red car.

The Battery rules for 1 cell call for a roar approved battery. Will a capacity/discharge limit ever be used in 1 cell? First we had 4000/25C, now 5000/40C. Speeds will just increase if it is not done. I do not mind getting a freash battery every few months or so, but not because manufactures are trying to one up each other. It would only cause more change to racing and I do not beleive what is what TOUR wants.

TOUR has done a lot of work to get classes with a controled speed.

Thanks for what you have done to help we racers. Looking forward to this carpet season.

Larry-
I think the 1C's are limited to the case size. As long as we put the limit on that I would think they could only stuff so much into it. Hopefully we realize that before we end up with what happened to round cells "BOMB".

I am sure (and hope) that the tour, and ROAR are going to put a case limit on the 1C's

My thoughts on that LarryB.....Get the part #'s on the TP 40c unit and (since we know it's coming) the part # on the SMC 40c unit and only allow those the first year. I know "ROAR approved" will work at some point, but my feelings are a lot like yours. If we're not going to spec one , let's, at the very least ,try and keep it simple at 2.
Kind of after-the-cart discussion I'm sure.....

dk

Great question guys, so let me do my best to explain the position we chose.

We went with "ROAR Approved 1-cells" only after we did extensive reasearch on ROAR's approval porcess. When lipo's first became available, ROAR had an open approval process, meaning any new pack release could be submitted and then approved. This effectively created the "battery of the month" problem, but because technology was changing so fast, ROAR kinda had to adopt this procedure.

Now that thing have settled down a bit. ROAR has established a bi-annual approval. The net result of that is a new list of approved batteries every 6-months. I believe this strikes a good balance between racers having some stability, and manufacturers having the chance to release new products to the public in order to re-capture market share.

So as a racer, I can buy a 1-cell pack from the "approved list" that ROAR releases after October 1st and virtually run it all carpet season till May 1st, when the next list comes out. New batteries may be developed between October and May, but none will be approved until May.

If you honestly think about it, battery costs should be at an all-time low. Equallity between packs is better, the number of good runs from a pack is better, one battery can be used accross all three TOUR Championship classes, and no surprises for 6 months at a time. Not perfect, but pretty good.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I missed anything.

Steve

Great question guys, so let me do my best to explain the position we chose.

We went with "ROAR Approved 1-cells" only after we did extensive reasearch on ROAR's approval porcess. When lipo's first became available, ROAR had an open approval process, meaning any new pack release could be submitted and then approved. This effectively created the "battery of the month" problem, but because technology was changing so fast, ROAR kinda had to adopt this procedure.

Now that thing have settled down a bit. ROAR has established a bi-annual approval. The net result of that is a new list of approved batteries every 6-months. I believe this strikes a good balance between racers having some stability, and manufacturers having the chance to release new products to the public in order to re-capture market share.

So as a racer, I can buy a 1-cell pack from the "approved list" that ROAR releases after October 1st and virtually run it all carpet season till May 1st, when the next list comes out. New batteries may be developed between October and May, but none will be approved until May.

If you honestly think about it, battery costs should be at an all-time low. Equallity between packs is better, the number of good runs from a pack is better, one battery can be used accross all three TOUR Championship classes, and no surprises for 6 months at a time. Not perfect, but pretty good.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I missed anything.

Steve
Ya know...thinking about this whole thing something seems a bit suspicious. A merger of sorts between an unlikely Notheastern guy like Pemberton and a Southern Boy like Allen. I'm guessing Pemberton is only after access to Bar-B-Que and used Allen to get there.
We've been duped.

dk

Understood on the battery situation. The dates do seem to protect the heart of the carpet season.

Sounds good to me!!

Hopefully this buying a house thing doesn't kill my racing this fall!!

Joel White

Steve, I do like that concept of approval and only needing to update twice a year. I can see a savings in the cost. My question is with batteries growing in capacity every six months, will the speeds increase to where they may be to fast for the intent of the class set up. Would a case size limit take care of that? Maybe one of the battery manufactures could help answer this.

These are just thoughts not trying to cause problems. OR :beatdeadhorse: You people have done a great job and I look forward to supporting this all I can. :thumbsup:I will be quite now and let progress take care of things.

I just want to race and be with friends (if I have any :tongue:)at the track and help bring back oval.

Average Joe Racer

The bi-annual approval process for Lipo packs is a great ROAR guideline to follow. I have no problem buying 2 new battery packs a year (If need be) , we ALL are way better off with batteries now then we were just a couple years ago.

What would some of these guys do now that never had the pleasure of running ni-cads that each pack could only be run once a day ? ......... lol.

Over time everyone will get on the same page and the who's who of oval race promoting are working together.......... this is a good thing.

Rich Boehmler

i might drop a tooth or two as a starting point but yeah they should still be real close with a novak

nick

Anybody want to buy a slightly used heating pad?

Love the rules, great to finally have TOUR. :thumbsup:

Bill

OK Guys,

I have heard all of the rumors of the Bar-B-Que conspiracy, or as DK put it, "Pemberton is only after access to Bar-B-Que and used Allen to get there".

The truth is, Allan and I go way back beyond the days of R/C. If you must know, Allan and I met at a Mr. Olympia Bodybuilding competition in the late 80's. Our mutal love for bodybuilding gave us a common thing to talk about.

Though neither of us made the finals that year, we did tie for "Most Well Developed Single Ab". And we did agree that the deep fried corn dogs, at the event, were some of the best we ever had.

And now you know the rest of that there story..........

Steve, I just started to working out again. My wife ask me if I could build a six pack of abs, like I had when I was younger. My reply was after 34 years of marriage she may have to settle for a two liter bottle.

WOW

THATS FUNNY RIGHT THERE:thumbsup:

Steve I like BBQ to.
I think we should get us some. lol


On the other hand the TOUR rules sounds like it is going to be so awsome. FINALLY a organization that really cares about Oval racing. let me know if you need any help with it.

Ole Stan may have a run for his money this year when Steve, Greg, and Rick get here. Ck this out 4 blocks from the track!!!!

Source: The Greeneville Sun

Public voting in the "Live! Regis and Kelly's Ultimate Hometown Grill Off" began this morning, more than a week before the originally scheduled date, The Greeneville Sun learned today.

Allen Crooks, owner of Chuckwagon Bar-B-Que and a quarter-finalist in the national Grill Off, said this morning that he had been informed by a representative of the Grill Off that voting by the public would begin at 10 a.m. today and continue until 10 a.m. on Sunday, June 21.

Among those videos will be one that he submitted, featuring both him and his recipe for Grilled Mahi Mahi with Caribbean Cole Slaw: his entry in the national contest.

There are 55 quarter-finalist chefs, each with a video. The ones that receive the most votes will become semi-finalists.

The winner will receive the "Ultimate Hometown Grill Recipe" title, and will appear in an upcoming issue of Better Homes and Gardens magazine.

To see the videos on the Internet, go to the Web site for Regis and Kelly (Regisandkelly.go.com) and click on "Ultimate Hometown Grill Off." Follow instructions for voting.


UMUM good.

Stan's needs to be open later. Every time I am down there they are closed when I leave the track. Next time no practice for me at Greeneville until I get some BBQ!!!

Stan's needs to be open later. Every time I am down there they are closed when I leave the track. Next time no practice for me at Greeneville until I get some BBQ!!!

I can't belive as much as I like Bar-B-Q and as many times as I have been to Greenevill, that I have not had a chance to try it.
Next time I am watching Steve and when he Leaves the building I will be right behind him. This may be better than a speed secret.:wave:

Great Job on the tour Rules and classes.

1 Cell Lipo Max. Voltage should be 4.22 I thought thats half of the 8.44

8.44 is 8.40 with a +4 variable. Why would it be any different with 4.2 volts? The reason the .4 is built in is because people said chargers differ by .04.

I know with 2 c charger settings and then charge 1 c it comes to 4.20 to 4.22. just checking to see because the meter checks the 3 rd digit so is 4.249 legal. thats cool just trying to clear up something before it happens.

I agree Mike this would be a good time to get it right.

I think if the meter reads 4.249 you are legal. As long as it doesn't go to 4.3

I guess Allan and Steve will have to put their stamp of approval on it though.

Joel White