i would say if you had a meter that read only two digits say 4.24...if the pack was above say 4.245 more than likely you would read 4.25 on a 2 digit meter. Further if your giving + - .04 then going to .049 would be more than that allowance. So for a case like this where our meter reads to the third digit you had better come up at 4.240 in order to be right. What do you think mike?

You guys are kidding, right?

No their thinking ahead and wanting to correct a problem/hard feelings Before it happens in order to do that you have to have Hard Numbers.
I would think that a 4.22 would be the same percentage over full charge as 8.44? Full charge on 1 cell 4.20 and on 2 cell 8.40 correct?
In both cases if your limit is for example 8.44 v then I would think 8.441 is over because when you say 8.44 it infers that the next digit to the right is a 0.

:)

Great Job on the tour Rules and classes.

1 Cell Lipo Max. Voltage should be 4.22 I thought thats half of the 8.44

Hey Mike:

First I appreciate your support, and the sharing of info on single cell testing. As for the charging rules.
Two cell is 8.40
One cell is 4.20

The .04 is a variable # for different chargers for both packs. Unfortunately it has become a charging goal.

I feel the intent of the rule for single cell is .240 is legal .241 is not.
same for 2 cell 8.440 legal 8.441 is not

I hope this has helped not confused

Thanks Flash, I should have read your post before I posted.

There you have it. 8.44000000 and 4.24000000 it is.

Sounds good to me!!

Are there any rules for tire compound?

Are there any rules for tire compound?

track or promoter prefence.

the 3.7v charging rule you guys have implemented goes above what some of the LIPO mfgs recommend. someone stated it correctly 4.22 on single cell 8.44 on two cell and from reading what lipo mfgs have to say, the .02 per cell is a really safe margin, and i doubt you'd see any issues taking it to .04 per cell but the fact is - the 8.44 is derived from the .02v per cell x's two for the 2s packs.

Guys, voltage is voltage, whether its coming from 2 cells, 1 cell, or 4 cells. If I have a voltmeter that reads 8.44 on a 2 cell pack, it'll read 4.24 on a 1 cell pack if they're both charged to their nominal voltage.

Also, it goes along with what ROAR is already doing.

Guys are definitely splitting hairs here. It is just an arbitrary number, there is no safety difference between 4.22 and 4.24. You could go to 4.40 and still be safe.

A tech limit has to be set somewhere and it is not to exceed 4.24V. When you get to a race the promoter will say here is the voltmeter we are using to tech. Everyone with a bit of common sense will charge a pack and compare the voltmeter on their charger to the voltmeter used for tech and adjust accordingly. What's the issue?

And I wouldn't be too worried about being right to the limit...What's on the voltmeter doesn't directly transfer to the track when all you're off is a few hundredths.

Here in Central Michigan we started teching voltage. 8.44 was the limit.
We learned that there can be significant differences between "some" chargers.
We also learned that those differences do not really show up on the track.
Drivers with chargers that would only charge to 8.37 [or so] were just as fast as guys with 8.44.
These were not just "any" guys. These were many of the fastest guys in our area.

My point is, I wouldn't get to hung up on a few hundredths of a volt. If that is the only thing making you slow, you should be the happiest oval racer here!

I Have A Question. Why Does Katf1sh Always Start Trouble! Lol

Just got my COT body. TOUR rules call for no cutting out of the rear. The wing molded into the back goes about 1/8th inch above the line for the bumper. Trying to cut this to the Line would leave a mild role out on the bumper and is going to be a difficulte cut to make. To get a stright cut the bumper may be about 1/8th inch short. Will this be ok?

Larry what body do you have?

Allan, I have the protoform cot.

Larry, I looked at my new body again, and I'm not sure what you see. On mine, the wing cut line is NOT molded anywhere near the rear bumper. I have the rear of the body cut right at the molded cut line, and it does not seem to be anywhere near the wing. There is no "roll out" on the rear bumper of my body.

Like I said in the Oval General forum, I did have to mount the new body with taller body posts, almost like my Truck in the front. Had to raise the rear body mounts about three full turns to get the roof to set right and get the ride height clearance that I need.

What are you guys using to mount the wing to the body? Plastic/steel screws or nuts? Double-sided tape? Need some help ;)

Just got my COT body. TOUR rules call for no cutting out of the rear. The wing molded into the back goes about 1/8th inch above the line for the bumper. Trying to cut this to the Line would leave a mild role out on the bumper and is going to be a difficulte cut to make. To get a stright cut the bumper may be about 1/8th inch short. Will this be ok?

Hey Larry I had to get to the hobby shop to get a protoform to look at. From what I see after you cut the wing out. There is a clear cut line left to cut the back out. There should be no roll out. the cut line I am looking at is above that.

Of course everyone knows I am blind in one eye and cant hardly see out of the other. lol, If you still have a question give me a call.

Allan A

I guess you would have to see the body I have. There are bumper lines on the rear left and right sides only. May be about 3/8" only. Where the molding for the wing starts the bumper rolls out a little and that is above those two lines about 1/8". There is no more bumper line on the molding, there is only the wing cut line.

I am sure that it can be cut out ok, but there will not be the line to show where the bottom of the bumper is. Just do not want someone thinking I am trying to bend the rules. I need to have way more than that to help me.:)

Besides this body will be well used up by the time I race a Tour event.:lol:

I was going to say...Larry you only get like 1 race out of a body anyway. If it has to be replaced or not!

I was going to say...Larry you only get like 1 race out of a body anyway. If it has to be replaced or not!

Thats why I only get Miller to paint me one body a year for a big event.:thumbsup:

Hey, I need to get with you and get your motor and stuff back. Thanks for helping out.

I've been using the soft aluminum screws and plastic nuts that I think still come with the body.

Steve and I were talking this week and it seems many people are curious why the Mod class will use a Spec motor. I agreed to try to lay out the reasoning behind this in order to answer that question. Before I do that, I want to make 2 comments. First, you'll see I write posts as long as Steve (or longer).:rolleyes: Next, I'm not trying to prove this was a good decision. Just trying to explain why we made it. If you disagree, that's fine. But we had to decide on a direction and this is how we did that.

First, true Open Mod is an oval class which has been run indoors very infrequently since the advent of Lipo batteries and brushless motors. Most carpet tracks (remember, these initial rules / classes are for carpet oval racing) are relatively small and tight. And on the majority of these tracks, true Open Mod cars are something that maybe 2-5% of racers can drive. In recent years events that offered Open Mod seldom have seen enough cars for even an A and B main. In some cases I know there weren't even full A mains. And, even those good enough (or brave enough) to try will often admit that they can drive a true Open Mod car but it's tough to race one.

So, rather than try to develop rules for a class that only a handfull of people were likely to try to run, we set out to create a TOUR class which would be fast enough to challenge the skill of even experienced racers but offer good racing and be something that maybe the top 15 -20% of racers would try. The objective is to have B, C and even D mains at TOUR events in this class and that wouldn't happen with a true Open Mod class based on the past. As the class structure developed, we decided this class would be 1S Lipo based for a number of reasons. But one main reason was it seemed participation in this TOUR MOD class would be higher if there was the opportunity to run the class using the same batteries as other TOUR classes.

That meant deciding on a motor with fewer winds than the 10.5/1S class. And that led directly to the realization that there are no specs for motors with lower winds than 10.5 since anything lower than that is treated as a Mod motor. Unlike the spec winds where ROAR approval assures all manufacturers produce a similar motor, there was no way to guarantee a 7.5 (as an example) from brand A would be at all similar to one from brand B. We considered for a while developing a specification which all manufacturers had to meet. But abandoned it because the TOUR doesn't have the resources right now to test motors and enforce compliance. But we may return to the idea in the future.

So that brings us to where we are. We decided the only way to get to a class faster than 10.5 / 1S and still provide a reasonably level playing field for competitors on motors, was to go with one manufacturer for the motors. While we intially published the Mod class as 7.5, we're still doing some testing on different sized tracks to see if that's the "right" number. Once we settle on the wind, we'll have motors to that wind made by one manufacturer and then the motors will only be available from the TOUR. The motors will have serial numbers and we'll know the spec's as they were when they left the TOUR. That will provide traceability for the future. And distribution by the TOUR guarantees everyone an equal shot at that killer motor you thought the factory guys beat you with in the past.:)

So that's how the top TOUR class became a spec class. And that's why the rules call it TOUR MOD rather than OPEN MOD. I imagine there will still be a handful of events where true OPEN MOD is run. But we figured those events don't really need a set of natonal, uniform rules to govern the dozen or so guys who run truly OPEN MOD on carpet.

Works for me! :thumbsup:

Thanks Chuck for doing a good job of explaining it.

The good news.....You did a great job explaining this in a clear and concise way!!

The bad news..........I can see myself "volunteering" you for write-ups like this on a much more regular basis!! LOL

Everything Chuck said was right on point. One of the main reasons for the TOUR was to bring people back together with 1) an organized rules package and 2) a limited number of classes in an attempt to get class counts up again. We all were getting tired of running in classes with 3-5 entries. So I really worked hard at resisting the urge to solve problems by simply "adding another class". For example, when we were debating Open Mod vs. TOUR Mod, the easy fix is to have both classes be regular TOUR classes. But, you can see how the could get out of hand quickly. Having 3 primary classes and 2 regional classes for the TOUR, all using the same type/scale of chassis, is more than enough. Still, I look forward to seeing Open Mod or Inivtational Mod be a featured special event, for the top drivers in the country, at the tracks & events where it can be done!!

Having said all of that, I feel it is now time to address "Specialty Classes". These are classes that either run a different type/scale of chassis. There are dozen of these classes that are very very regional in nature so it is impossible to cover even a fraction of them. There are only 2 that are nationally common, that I intend to address as TOUR classses:

1/12th Scale
SK ModifiedMy hope is that with a little work and cooperation, we can put together a standardized set of guidlines that will help grow both of these classes. Once I have a basic framework put together, I will create a seperate thread to address these classes. Your input is welcome as always.

So far so good guys. I'm really encouraged by the support. We are looking at the best carpet season in years.


Steve

My only suggestion for the 1/12th scale, and SK classes is you make only 1 type (motor wind) class. For instance...

TOUR 1/12th scale is 13.5 motors and 1C batts.

TOUR SK is 13.5 motors, and 1C batts.

I would avoid doing SK 17.5, 13.5 and 10.5, and 1/12th scale 17.5, 13.5, and 10.5. If you look at some of the NE big events they have 3 13.5 4 cell SK, and 5 17.5 4 cell. If we bring them all together you would have 7 or 8, and more would probably join in the fun. For the most part these classes will be 2nd classes at TOUR events. Regional classes can be different, but the TOUR could bring these back together, and bring car counts up.

Just my 2 cents on it.

Joel White

The good news.....You did a great job explaining this in a clear and concise way!!

The bad news..........I can see myself "volunteering" you for write-ups like this on a much more regular basis!! LOL

Steve

Thanks but only you or I would consider my write up concise!:lol:

As for being "volunteered" more regularly, ouch.

Hey J-Dub,

That's exactly what I was thinking. One class for each. Something like this:

SK = 13.5 1-cell
12th scale = 10.5 1-cellI want the speed we pick to be such that it allows for competitive racing, that is not too fast or too slow for the intended group of racers in each class at any track they race.

It may take some time, but we will get there.

Steve

Hate to jump the gun but what about weights? my pro S/K weighs 1#15oz with a 17.5 1s lipo, I'd hate to add 5 oz maybe same weights as 1/12th scale? :dude:

This may have been asked or talked about all ready,If you have your recever pack pluged into your recever and your 1 cell pluged into your speed control and the switch turned on or off on the speed control should the(13.5) motor still run,Because this is what mine is doin.Can some one tell me if this is right or wrong if its wrong how do i fix it i have never ran a recever pack before.

Thanks Keith

As soon as you plug in your receiver pack it should power up your speed control. For most setups you want to leave your esc switch off when running.

Okay thanks,With all of this talk about recever packs making a car run or move or what ever it may be doing i didnt want to get myself into any of that.

this may be making things too complicated, but i'm gonna throw it out there anyway...

only 1 motor for a class is a good idea in the sense that it will bring the entries together and bring the class counts up. however, it may not work universally from track to track.

example - 12th scale 1S 10.5 = great at snowbirds, turn 4, big runlines, etc. not so good for CRC, Walt's, short runlines, etc.

proposed idea - motor wind goes with certain number of feet of runline. 10.5 for big tracks, 13.5 for smaller tracks.

my intention is not to complicate things, but make the classes race-able and fun for the different sizes of tracks. Steve knows better than anyone what i'm talking about here. here at home, you get 6 - 8 12th scale cars out there on the track at once and it's pretty busy even with 17.5, so i think 13.5 may be a decent compromise. 10.5 would just be silly on our little bull ring.

what do y'all think?

Thanks but only you or I would consider my write up concise!:lol:

As for being "volunteered" more regularly, ouch.

yeah and where is my tour t-shirt and thong?:rolleyes:

yeah and where is my tour t-shirt and thong?:rolleyes:

Kat,

Looking back over your many posts on Hobbytalk and the crap you stir up, I'm much more likely to send you a muzzle (or maybe some sort of mitten where we can "lock" up your typing fingers).

To add even more excitement to the 7.5 class,
We're proud to introduce TOUR Spec Mittens... :)

You Should Call The Mittens. Kat Paws.

lmfao! now there's a challenge!

I've been looking, so excuse me if it's been answered... But, any word on the 7.5 for Pro Mod?

I've been looking, so excuse me if it's been answered... But, any word on the 7.5 for Pro Mod?

Info will be out soon,

OK Guys,

I have heard all of the rumors of the Bar-B-Que conspiracy, or as DK put it, "Pemberton is only after access to Bar-B-Que and used Allen to get there".

The truth is, Allan and I go way back beyond the days of R/C. If you must know, Allan and I met at a Mr. Olympia Bodybuilding competition in the late 80's. Our mutal love for bodybuilding gave us a common thing to talk about.

Though neither of us made the finals that year, we did tie for "Most Well Developed Single Ab". And we did agree that the deep fried corn dogs, at the event, were some of the best we ever had.

And now you know the rest of that there story..........
Are you sure you met bodybuilding? Steve you have a body more like a powerlifterhttp://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt299/fissyfabs/va1-4.gif (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/%3Ca%20href=)">http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt299/fissyfabs/va1-4.gif (http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/tt299/fissyfabs/?action=view&current=va1-4.gif)

a lil hold up on the 7.5 motor it was going to be produced by one company..now it will open to all manufacturers ..any company that wants to produce a a 7.5 will have to submit it for approval...word is dieter and a few others will be looking at all the pre production motors...this is a major hang up so far

Fisler..........only you could ome up with something like that!! WOW!! Now there's an Ab!! LOL

Now for our "word on the street" segment from our infamous Katfish!!!!!

"there a hold-up in the plans for a single manufacturer 7.5" - CORRECT
"now it will open to all manufacturers" - CORRECT AGAIN (2 for 2)
"company that wants to produce a a 7.5 will have to submit it for approval" NOT EXACTLY BUT CLOSE ENOUGH (3 for 3)
"word is dieter and a few others will be looking at all the pre production motors...this is a major hang up so far" OOPS....KATFISH BLEW A TIRE COMIN OUTTA 4 (WELL 3 OUTTA 4 AIN'T BAD)I will be posting a detailed explanation of this in our revised rules later this week but let me clear it up briefly since its 1:00am. We decided not to go with a single manufacturer for the 7.5 for a lot of reasons, so we opened this class up so that all manufacturers could participate. This is word for word out of the revised TOUR rules:

Since ROAR does not have an approval process in place that specifically defines the performance requirements of the 7.5 motor, the TOUR contacted each brushless motor OEM with existing 7.5 turn motors currently available in the U.S. Each manufacturer was made aware of the requirements of the class, and also made aware of the other manufacturers being considered. Each manufacturer, in the list below, has agreed to compete in this class with their production motor as listed by part number. They have also agreed that this list of approved motors and manufacturers represents a level playing field.

I reviewed each of the spec personnally with each manufacturer. These are all production motors. Dieter's only involvement is in providing me the specifications on Trinity's motors. He, Bob Novak, Sean Cochran, Jim Campbell, Shawn Palmer, Brian Miller, Kyle, Derreck, and Patrick have been exceptionally supportive and cooperative. Deiter is not reviewing any pre-production motor and there is no hang up. Just wante dto make that clear.

Katfish...........not too bad partner. Anyone batting .750 is a first ballot hall of famer, or could at least get a job as an editor for the National Enquirer!! LOL

Good night gang.

Steve

steve, how will we tech any of the classes as far as motors are considered?

Steve,

Good to hear this on the 7.5 motor deal.

damn my rumor central is almost spot on!

diapointed it isn't trinity only though....now a shady orange motor will pop up from time to time.

Right and certainly nothing shady has ever come from Trinity.....oh wait LOL

I'm also a bit disappointed that the one motor approach did not work. Not because I am interested in kissing the butt of one brand or another like Kat, just because it would have been nice not to hassle with chasing one or the other or second guessing what is the right motor to run. I understand the reasoning either way though.

For all the crap we, the oval community, give companies about not paying enough attention to us, the motor manufacturers that would have been left out previously have all been very excited at being able to be involved in the 7.5 class.