Well guys - I figured i would go ahead and start this thread after all the talk after yesterdays race at Easely. I over heard talk about changes to the engine with restrictors etc, changing to tires specially built for Gascars,changes to the exhaust. Well i figured this is as good as place as you can get to discuss such changes and to eventually vote on whether or not we need changes.

Some times we get out of hand when we don't perform as we think we should(me included) and the first thing we say is i want better tires-i want restrictors put in place-I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE A SMURFY CAR AGAIN.hehe
But in fact all we need to do is work on our car and get it better. I am as guilty as anybody at saying some of these type things, but i will tell you right now i don't want to see a bunch of changes.

I hope that everyone will get involved, and lets really talk this out. I will start the ball rolling with one good change that i heard of last night. That is the discussion over whether to mandate the HPI muffler since there are some saying it is not as good as muffler, some say it is as good or maybe better. As far as i am concerned i am in favor of mandating it to everyone uses it with (go no go guages put in place to mandate that the baffle is the same size and the stinger is the same size. If these guages are not used religously then we are wasting our time and causing an even bigger headache by making the change.

O.K, somebody else get on here and make there point of view. The comfort that i take in any of these type changes happening, is that TIM SMITH will not allow any of them unless it is put to a vote. Then it is up to us as racers to put up with it and go racing and have fun. That is the great thing about GASCAR is that we as racers are allowed to have a true saying in what takes place.

Thanks for listening and GOODBYE -RED RIDER

Benji,
I have not heard one word about any changes in the GASCAR rules. You are the first to even mention in some detail what the talk is all about. The muffler discussion has been going on for about three years, now, and we have three to choose from; the Associated, HPI and OS. With three to choose from, then racers have the choice to run what they want. On the other hand, tinkering with the muffler is something that a rule can eliminate. I just don't think that tearing down a muffler after each race is something our racers want to see happen. But, if it comes to that, you get your "Bag-O-Muffler" back in a Ziplock bag. If we go to the HPI muffler only, then we have to set rules on the baffle and, tearing down the muffler after the mains is going to be the norm. I personally think that mandating a smaller restrictor, maybe a 1.20 might be the answer. We can make them easily and hand them out on race day. Then, collect them after the mains. But, as you stated, GASCAR members set the rules. It alwalys takes a vote.

Tim

On another note, Benjie,
If racers are having trouble keeping tires on their cars, then maybe the engine rule needs to be rethought. The spirit of GASCAR is running long mains, and not sprint type racing. I would rather run a .12 engine, and be slower, and keep tires on the car for 250-500 laps, than be fast and last only 100 laps and have to take time to change tires. Its another issue to think about, same as NASCAR. A car with a good setup will keep tires on the car longer, but too much speed will burn them off, especially if the setup is off. Remember, GASCAR mains are 250 laps or longer, and a slower pace might be the answer. If you want to set records, then bring bushels of tires.... but if lasting the length of a main, maybe a slower pace is the right choice. Its not a perfect world, and everyone is NOT going to be equal, no matter how many times we change the rules. If your car is not keeping tires together, then make a decision that will make them last longer. Its something else to think about... tire wear, fuel mileage, etc. Just like NASCAR. It's up to the racer to tune his car to run within the rules, and if tires are not lasting, then work on the setup. You can't expect to run record-setting times every single lap during a main and expect tires to stay on the car.

Also, making a rule change in the middle of the season is NOT a good thing, unless its a parts availablity issue. We have rules, we need to stick to them and make the cars work within them.

Tim

The talk on the muffler deal was bought up after the race last night. It was part in fact that the associated is so hard to find these days and that eventually there will be more and more people not able to get them. So it was simply mentioned that we go ahead and make the hpi the only muffler available to run because it is so readily available. It was also mentioned that one was better than the other, also that the hpi was better without the baffle etc. Thats why i say we go ahead mandate it and yes it should be teched after every race. The baffle should also be mandated, and everyone has to run it. If it slows us down thats fine, if it speeds us up ,well thats fine too.

There was discussion on things such as having tires built that could handle more punishment etc. I agree with you that everyone needs to work on handling or maybe there driving style or whatever to keep tires on there car better.

The big R word was bought up also. I hate the thought of having to run a restrictor on the motor, It seems everytime a restrictor is used everyone starts leaning the engine more and more to get speed back- then the next thing you know head temps are reaching 350 and next thing you know you're buying a new engine. Thats what i love about the .15 engine is that it is easy to crank,(even when hot) has enough power that you don't have to keep it so lean. As of so far i have not seen one .15 engine give any trouble.

I was hoping that all this could be discussed on here so that everyone can see how everyone else feels about it, instead of one bunch making phone calls and only half of us know what is even being talked about. It does good to openly discuss things (level minded) in stead of just a few . This thread was not started to knock the way anybody is doing anything , it was started to try and keep everyone enlightened on what is and will be discussed. I really hope that everyone will participate and not just sit back and complain later if changes are made.


Later -RED RIDER:wave:

I have never been shy about posting my opinion but I have been waiting to see what others would post. I have it saved in Word, let me copy and paste it for you Little Red Riding Hood.

:D:D:D

On the restrictor. Who in the world is running a .15 with a restrictor and temping out at 350*? WOW talk about pushing one to the limit!! :eek: I don't think I heard of one temping out above 250* at Rock Hill and they were flyin' there!

.......

I don't like the idea of restrictors, unless everyone votes on it, Then we need to mandate a particular one....then make them to hand out and take up after the race. If a driver wants to push his .15 to the limit to the point of blowing, then we can't stop him. Its a matter of finding the right combination of handling vs. speed. On the muffler, I have run all three mufflers and can't find an ounce of difference in performance. Also, I have tested the HPI with the baffle in place and out, and also played with the opening. I still couldn't find any difference without a dyno... and I am not even going there!! Maybe on a particular motor, if a racer feels it is better, but as we all know, 5 motors of the same displacement will all run differently. You really can't make the HPI the only legal muffler in the middle of a season, because some guys still have the Associated muffler. What about those guys??

The .15 has the power to push to the front, or pass other cars at will, but then a racer can pace himself to make the tires last longer. The power is there when needed, but for goodness sakes, running a car flat out, when tires are not staying on the car, is not smart. And, if you have any idea how much special nitro tires are going to cost for John to make a limited amount, your pocket book is deeper than mine. They are going to be out of sight cost wise. The R&D alone will take a year, even if John agreed to make them. Is everyone having the same problem with tires? Or is it just one or two drivers?

I am always open to racers' ideas and opinions, and we will discuss this at the Outlaw 250. But from what I am hearing so far, the majority of racers are not having tire problems. But, I have not personally interviewed everyone, either. Maybe its the increased bite at Easley, because tires were not a problem at Rock Hill, and the cars were flying there, too.

The .15 brings a whole new way of driving to oval nitro and GASCAR. Maybe its just we need to use our heads a little more, and not just our fingers, and back off the throttle a bit. That's called "Racing". If it was flat out, katie bar the door, hold onto your britches, then we would be building dragsters.

Tim

PS-- If everyone is having tire problems, we still have the OS.12.......... it's easier on tires.

I like Benjies idea on the muffler rule. I think it is something we can discuss at the next race. Also the restrictor rule I don't like. We have been there and done that back at our local racing and dealt with the high temps to get them running to optimum performance and were right back where we started. This is good to discuss things and get ideas out on this thread and see what we can come up to make things better for Gascar and nitro oval racing.

I was in the conversation and practiced a car with the HPI and Associated Muffler. The difference was a little on the bottom and mid is all I could see ran the same times or within a tenth. The main issue I see is that the Associated Part is not available to the public. In other forms of racing when this happens its a (impact part). As for as running older parts at certain races or clubs would be fine. But as a Governerd class I would make shur its available to the racers threw Hobbie shops. No harm just looking from the other side and yes I agree you cant change rules in the middle of the year.

All good points. Its worth talking about at the upcoming race at Easley on the 27th. Bush did not say which muffler he felt had an advantage, but we can discuss it further here, and at the race. The restrictor is my last choice, because these engines run so well without them. I dont like the idea of "choking" down an engine, when "slowing" it down is easier (with the muffler). Keep the discussion open, and we will talk about it at length next race.

Tim

For the record, I think it is a good thing to get discussions like this going.

I do not have a problem running the HPI mufflers and seeing as they have been proven to fit on all the cars now it is no longer a fitment issue.

I agree 100% on the mandated restrictors, I do not like them either. Let the racer decide on how he wants to control the car.

I can easily switch the the HPI muffler, but hate to see these Associated mufflers that we have go to waste. But if it is better for GASCAR, I am for it 100%!!

This is NOT policy change, but an idea to think about. Leave the muffler rule as is, with the Associated and OS mufflers still legal, but change the HPI muffler to leaving the baffle in place, and have the choice to knock out either one, or both of the smaller holes, or neither one. But, the holes cannot be enlarged. Not modifying the manufacturers design, but having the ability to "tune" as you wish.

Tim

Mike may can back me up on this, but I think the discussion was about track rules for Carolina RC Complex, and not necessarily changing rules for GASCAR. At least that was my understanding.

From my perspective, this whole thing started because I ran out of patience. I have since found about 5 major things wrong with my car that caused it to run terribly, and after having a bad week at work I ran out of patience when my one and only Associated muffler broke. I was ready to give up on GASCAR altogether at the time, I even tried to sell my engines. Probably everyone knows that I am passionate about this and get fired up and sometimes say and do things I wish I could take back. I told Donnie and Mike that I was done with this class because I don't have the funds to keep a car under these rules together. So Donnie called a meeting among the nitro racers because he could see a problem. We discussed modifying GASCAR's rules for his track to help tire and car wear, and we discussed other options as well that would potetially replace the .09 class, because it has its own set of problems. By the end of the meeting I do not remember anyone saying that the rules should be changed before the Outlaw race, or even for the rest of the GASCAR series. Donnie is interested in nitro racing and has the premier track in the southeast, and can really help nitro grow. He could see from all the tires and other parts that were destroyed Saturday that no average Joe could afford to run the current GASCAR rules on a weekly basis, so he was looking for options for a weekly nitro class.

I apologize for my part in all of this, I was just having a bad day, and as far as I can tell I ended up causing some problems. At the end of the day though, I have to say that I am not fully in support of either the .09 or .15 rules packages, and I think both could stand some changes. Since I've already caused enough problems though, I am going to keep them to myself and just race. I am going to take a week off to recoup and rebulid, and I will see you all at the Outlaw 250.

Sam

Sam -- we have all been there BELIVE me!! Those little engines make me nuts. I have the uncanny ability to tune one right into the weeds.

As I hope you have heard, I have a brand new Associated muffler you are welcome to if you need it, all I need is what I paid for it.

On another note. If there are rules you feel that could be improved, post them up or email Tim, he is VERY WILLING to listen. His contact info is on the GASCAR website.

I will say this, if the rules that were being discussed to be "changed" were for CCRC only, then I totally misunderstood. I would say that if "tweaking" the GASCAR rules to get more locals involved will work, DO IT!! But I would stay as close to those rules as possible for when a GASCAR race does come to town, it is not that much different.

See ya in a week and two days!

I also know how Sam feels about having a bad day at the track. I also agree with Scott that it may be necessary to bend the rules a little at one track on a weekly race type deal, and i also agree that the rule bend needs to stay as close as possible in case GASCAR does come to town.

We all know that Donnie and Mike and More at Easely, do everything they can to accomidate any and every racer. I for one appreciate that very much. Everybody just keep working together and we will get this ironed out, because believe me i already spend way to much on this hobby so anything that will truly help to control cost--I AM ALL FOR IT.

O.K now i have another rule that i would like to enforce Immediately-- Lets BAN ROGER FROM RACING!

Everybody say it together-NO MORE ROGER- NO MORE ROGER-NO MORE ROGER.hehehe:wave:

This could be a local rule on the muffler at Carolina but the racers will vote on it.I was also just giving input on the gascar rules. I have run many different series and when a part is no longer in the hobby shops or a suppler quits making it you can no longer use that part. It may be slower or faster but its that racers mind set that thinks it better but he cant get one. the restrictor in the HPI will have to have a Go?Nogo gauge if its passed for next years rules.
Looking forward to the race next weekend, might have to go buy my gascar back to play next weekend the .15 felt pretty good under the old finger.

Mike, Now that would be cool.:thumbsup:

Oh good another car for Benji to run over!

Only if benji throttle servo sticks wide open, I am the rookie in Gascar so I have credit. HAHAHAHa

ya what mike said. that .15 feels sweet love that hp the hpi felt a little softer on exit top end about the same.but the fuel that we ran after the race was 07 nats fuel so it could have been a little flat. need to retest with fresh fuel.

Welcome in Stan!

Glad to see ya racing with us again.

Has anyone tested with 10% or 15% fuel to see what it would do to performance? It might take the rip out, make it a little eaiser on the tires? On the little motors, even the oil content makes a big difference on how they will run.

Not that i know of Mitch, May be good to look into a smaller nitro content. Atleast it sounds good.

Now that is something I have not thought of.

Benji-- you run 10% Nitro in the next race and we can get some side by side comparisons.

Not to worry Scotty boy --I would wait on ya.:thumbsup:

That is what I am afraid of.

thought those coyotes ran on your special brew anyway?

One can never be too sure, can they?

Benjie, I got some 50% in the trailer, works real good in the dirt car motors. A drop of food coloring will make it look like what ever you wish. Just don't tell Scott.

Tell Scott what?

Heyyyyyy, are you guys up to something??

you know red cars red fuel ha ha

Hey, Benjie, I have a bottle of 20% coyote pee if you want to try it. It's a little rank on the bottom end, but really zips on the top end.

mitch give me a call 828-223-3430 are there any .15s going to easley this sat i was thinking of going down if any are comming. thats scary aint it you know me thinking !!!!

stan, how can you type and work at the same time?

You know most of us mechanics can work with both hands. And I just mean most. LOL

no breaks for anyone its my clone doing all my work for me

Work??????????

I have to work at my real job this weekend, can't go. Not sure if Sam's going or not.

50% and a red car-OOOOH WEEEE That would spell spanking for the rest of the field. spect i better stand on the 20%. :thumbsup: