View Full Version : Running on a Low Downforce Track


Grandcheapskate
06-10-2009, 08:49 PM
A week or so ago, I had the pleasure to visit Tom Stumpf and run on his Brad Bowman 20x8 routed track (and yes, I bought lunch). This was the third time I've been on the track but the first time I went there specifically to run cars.

I brought a lot of different type of cars; Aurora/JL T-Jets, Aurora AFX and Magnatraction, Aurora SuperMag and G Plus, Tyco (TCR, HP7, 440, 440-X2), Lifelike M & T, MicroScalextric and even Marchon.

Of course, running on a routed track is a great experiance. I don't know how many times I said "I have to get me one of these!". Not having the room myself (at the moment) to set up a track with a 18'+ straightaway, it was really the first time I was able to let my cars wind all the way out.

There were a couple things I noticed. One is that T-Jet size cars looked too small on this track, while the larger cars looked to be the right size. On standard plastic track, the larger cars (especially Marchon and MicroScalextric) look and feel way too big for the 3" width; on this track, they looked right at home.

But the big thing I noticed, and what gave me the most enjoyment, was the fact that this track had much less downforce than standard plastic track. I don't care much for running magnet cars on my plastic track because the downforce is much stronger than I'd like. I have to get fairly sloppy in order to cause a magnet car to deslot. Plus they always sound like they are scraping bottom (which they are not).

However on Tom's track, all the cars ran really smooth and deslotting was a fairly common event. Some cars which I don't use on plastic track ran like finely tuned machines once the downforce was decreased. Clearly, when I get to routing my own track, I want to try to get the lower level of downforce. It made running my cars a whole lot more enjoyable and made the cars I'd given up on run great.

Thanks...Joe

AfxToo
06-11-2009, 07:25 AM
I like the variability of different types of tracks and do agree that certain types of track bring out the unique qualities of certain types of cars. Running on a continuous rail or routed track will change your perspective right off the bat, and I would attribute 75% or more of the "I Love This Track" (ILTT) syndrome that occurs when running on those tracks to the smoothness factor alone. To that I would add another 20% to ILTT for track size. Big tracks with long straights and at least a few sweeping turns where you start to feel like you are really having to drive the car hard around the whole course to get good lap times, as opposed to just worrying about not deslotting in a few of the turns, really changes the whole complexion of the racing experience. The downforce, assuming there is at least some magnetic influence, has some additional effect and a definite influence, but not nearly as much as the bulk satisfaction attributable to "smooth joy" and "big track giddy." As long as there is magnetic influence to be had, racers will find a way to coerce as much of it as they can from what's there. So, from a track making a good first impression on me, I'd say it's 75% smoothness, 20% size, and 5% rail properties.

But that's not the end of the story either, because no one characteristic of track quality can overshadow gross deficiencies in another, even if the other one is a lesser consideration. A 4 foot oval etched out of glass with gold plated rails won't cut it because it falls too far short on size. Similarly, a track can be too big. If you need more marshals than drivers, your track is probably too big for regular club-style racing. A once a year novelty race, no problem, but weekly racing, probably not practical. Then there's the layout and the technical aspects of the track that affect raceability. The electrical system and drivers stations have to deliver too. Flawless power around the whole course is a must, and of course, no pokey stud drivers stations allowed, at least in my house.

Bottom line is that beyond first impressions there are a lot of other factors that go into making a track a "great track." Even a track made from sectional race set pieces can be a great track when it has the right balance of all of the qualities that make a difference. It's all subjective but I think we'd all agree that there are some basic qualities that are part of the equation:


Smoothness
Size
Layout and Flow
Driving Visibility
Power Delivery
Rail Type & Behavior
Drivers Stations
Ease of Marshaling
Aesthetics


The ones that are higher in the list are the ones that affect first impressions while the other ones affect long term satisfaction with the track once the "smooth wow" and "size awe" have normalized in your brain and you take them for granted.

Grandcheapskate
06-12-2009, 11:04 PM
Can't disagree with anything you've said.

Smoothness of a routed track is without a doubt a huge contributor to getting even more enjoyment out of your cars. And the size of the track finally lets you wind a car all the way out. And these are the two things that strike you right away.

After you run for a while, you start to determine whether you like the layout or not. But then, at least for me, it was the realization that the magnetic downforce was so much less than plastic track that made me sit up and take notice.

For example, I just don't like running Lifelike cars on plastic track. Way to much downforce for my tastes. Now Tom has been telling me for months that he loves running Lifelike cars, and I can see why. On his track, they're great. They behave sort of like a low downforce Tyco HP-7 - take a curve a little too aggressive and the rear snaps out. Same with all the other magnet cars.

It was great.

Joe

AfxToo
06-13-2009, 07:25 AM
I had a similar experience with the Tomy SRT, but along different magnetic lines. For a few years I was running on a routed track that had decent magnetic downforce on the rails, but the rails were quite narrow, even more so than Tomy track. The SRTs would scream down the straights and immediately proceed to roll over in the corners. There just wasn't enough pull from the combination of narrow rail and stubby magnets to keep those boxy chassis and bulky bodies from embarrassing themselves in the turns. The Tomy SG+ on the other hand, with its much longer magnet, could hang in there in the corners and seriously dominated the SRT. That was in box stock form. I'm sure that playing games with tire heights and such would have made a big difference. The LL T-chassis was basically unusable on that track.

The primary factors in picking a rail are the magnetic properties of the metal, the width of the rail, and the height of the rail. All other things being equal, a wider rail will provide much more downforce because more lines of flux from the traction magnets cut through the rail.

If you are looking to have a custom track built, make sure you get a readout from the builder about the characteristics of the rail. Some builders like Wizzard pattern their rail after the Tomy profile in terms of material, width, and height. If you are very sensitive about rail performance, try to get a track piece sample from the manufacturer, or better yet, find someone with a track built by the same manufacturer with the same material that you are considering. Be aware that manufacturers can and do change their formula from time to time, and some like Brad Bowman offer choices.

I'm sure I would absolutely love racing on a low downforce Bowman track as much as I love racing on an old black Max with heavy rails. I would just have to adjust my setup and driving style accordingly.

Lately I've spent a lot of time on a routed track that has heavy rails made from rounded welding wire. This has proven to be a fabulous combination for box stock cars, with the SRT being The Dominator on race day. The rounded rails have a significant cross section when viewed from the traction magnet's perspective so there is downforce aplenty. At the same time, the rounded rails exhibit very low drag on the shoes and they seem to last forever. Every box stock car runs like a champ on this track. Super stock cars absolutely fly. What doesn't run well is Mod and above. Way too much stick. But here's the compromise, do you want a track that allows you to RACE a $25 straight from the clam pack box stocker and race it for hours with almost zero maintenance, or a track that's too much for your $150 Mod to handle without stopping every few laps to make sure your $45 custom wind is staying cool? (And in case anyone's wondering, jacking up the tire heights on a Mod helps, but pulling those magnets up away from the rails with all that motor is a tough combination to get dialed in just right - it's meltdown mode or missile mode, with 1/1000ths of an inch of tolerance to sway it one way or the other.)

Some tracks just lend themselves to being better suited for running certain types of cars, and Joe has discovered the magic combination that delivers the experience he's looking for. The clear takeaway is that if you are fortunate enough to be able to buy a custom track, do whatever you can to get some track time on a representative sample of what you are buying. It will make a world of difference. And for those who don't have this luxury, don't give up on your snap together set track, you can absolutely use set track to construct a great track by maximizing the things that you have control over, like putting together a fabulous layout and tuning the connections and rails to get some of that "smooth wow" happening on your snappy track.

Grandcheapskate
06-13-2009, 04:52 PM
But here's the compromise, do you want a track that allows you to RACE a $25 straight from the clam pack box stocker and race it for hours with almost zero maintenance, or a track that's too much for your $150 Mod to handle without stopping every few laps to make sure your $45 custom wind is staying cool?

Some tracks just lend themselves to being better suited for running certain types of cars, and Joe has discovered the magic combination that delivers the experience he's looking for... And for those who don't have this luxury, don't give up on your snap together set track, you can absolutely use set track to construct a great track by maximizing the things that you have control over, like putting together a fabulous layout and tuning the connections and rails to get some of that "smooth wow" happening on your snappy track.

Since I have no intention of ever moving beyond box stock (most box stock magnet cars are too fast for my tastes as it is), I want a track that is going to allow me to run box stock with almost no maintenance. The other BIG consideration is just how many cars you have in your fleet. I have about 150 runners, so I can't spend all my time tuning each one all the time. I need a track that allows me to get a car running well and then be able to use it for a long time before I have to tear it down again. I don't go out and buy replacement parts for every car; I take what came with the car and get it as tuned as possible. I just want to enjoy them on my home track.

T-Jets and regular AFX, even Magna-Tractions, are not (too) effected by rail downforce properties - just rail height. So these probably do not care about the material composition of the rails.

The question becomes, "When I run magnet cars on my plastic track, which chassis type gives me the most pleasure?". Turns out it has almost always been the HP-7. I just like that level of downforce (for a magnet car). Tom's routed track gave me the feeling that all my high downforce cars (Lifelike, Tomy and Tyco 440s) were acting like HP-7s. And that feels right to me.

We were also running at 15 volts. I am running my plastic track at either 20 or 22 volts; too high. I'm looking forward to wiring in my new 18.8v power supply. Being able to tune in the desired voltage is another big piece of the enjoyment factor.

Thanks...Joe