I can't believe it, but GM is closing Saturn.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/090413-Many-Saturn-Dealers-Closing-Shop/

http://imsaturn.com/profiles/blogs/its-on-the-news-today-gm-is

Post any pics if you got em.

:(

I can't believe it, but GM is closing Saturn.

I can believe it.

Other than a few rebadged snatch & grabs from Pontiac and Opel nearly the entire Saturn product line has been consistently dull, boring, and uninspiring. I will miss Pontiac, but Saturn, interesting experiment gone nowhere. About the best thing you could ever say about Saturn was "It kinda looks like a _______ " (fill in the blank) while you would be hard pressed to find any other non-GM brand that emulates a Saturn. "Hey, that new Nissan/Toyota/Ford kinda looks like a Saturn _______." Nope, not gonna happen. Design really does matter and GM almost universally missed the point with the Saturn line.

Just one guy's opinion, available to all via no haggle pricing of exactly $0.02.

My wife had a '95 Satrun SW-2 that we purchased new. The price was right compared to the other makes we had been shopping, so the no-haggle price was acceptable and welcome after a Mitsubishi sale dude tried to tack on every imaginable charge to the price of a....can't even remember the model.

The plastic body was great. No rust and scratches were easy to buff out or fix. The dealship service was excellent and competitively priced. She kept the car for 9 years.

She replaced the SW-2 with a minivan. We both looked at the Saturn Relay and discovered that not only that it had a steel body, but that it was also just a re-badged GMC minivan. That's how you blew it Saturn. We both drive Hondas now.

The first SL2 coupes were pretty nice cars, actually. Had a little Geo Storm in the bodystyle, but looked a little more like a serious car. Too bad they never really pushed it as a performance car, with some tweaks and mods under the hood Id think it couldve been superior to any honda civic.

I sure hope the Sky and Solstice get moved over to Chevy tho. Both of those cars look nice, perform well with the supercharged engine and are just the kind of cars with REAL appeal that the US automakers need.

First Pluto :eek:....now Saturn :cry:........who's next???:confused:......MERCURY...... :jest: :lol:

I drive a 2004 Saturn Ion redline. Came from the factory with a 2 liter supercharged 4 cyl that they rated at 205 horses, which when put on a dyno actually makes 219 hp at the wheels. Recaro seats, Tremec 5 speed, 4 piston 12" breaks on all 4 corners.

The car will out run my buddys 2004 mustang GT, out corner my cousins 92 mazda miata all while never attracting any attention from the local law enforcement since....well its a Saturn.

Car never rusts, made the Edmunda top 10 engines in the world list in 04 and has very reasonable maintance costs.

Too bad GM brass killed the car after 4 years in a very limited production

First Pluto :eek:....now Saturn :cry:........who's next???:confused:......MERCURY...... :jest: :lol:

I would never drive one...they are far to close to Uranus! :freak:

Okay, here is a new brand being built at new plants where they didn't have the legacy of old equipment, wages and benefits, etc. that are supposedly plaguing them today. So how are they supposed to reposition the old GM brands with all the baggage if they couldn't succeed with a fresh start in Saturn?
Jim

Okay, here is a new brand being built at new plants where they didn't have the legacy of old equipment, wages and benefits, etc. that are supposedly plaguing them today. So how are they supposed to reposition the old GM brands with all the baggage if they couldn't succeed with a fresh start in Saturn?
Jim

Jim where do you think most or all of the employees came from? Other GM plants at the initial startup.

If GM had of used all the money they wasted on Saturn to help fix the product at pontiac we might all be better off.

Last year the g6's retail sales outsold everything saturn sold retail, EVERYTHING!! Nuf said.

well i know how you all feel about saturn and pontiac.. I was so sad when they shut down plymouth!!! and now dodge is on thin ice right now..

Wes

I would never drive one...they are far to close to Uranus! :freak:

That's funny right there....:wave::tongue:

Saturn.... a defucnt kina car company. LOL!
The car was a dud from day 1, Sorry to all the employees about to get wacked. It is about time GM started to get it's mind right and focus on their main bread and butter, Chevrolet. There is no reason why the needed to wack the Olds and Pontiac, since they had become clones they only need to manufacture some different parts to style them differently. Saturn was a different car compaired to sunbird and cavalier, There may have been some interchange parts but it was mostly a new build up. What they need to do is concentrate on reducing the product cost, I earn a good upper midlle class wage and I would be hard pressed to buy a new car, just too costly. Best of luck to the uaw workers who will be looking for a job, hopefully they can buy some older workers out and get rid of some of the crazy benefits they get.

My wife and I have owned two Saturns. I loved both of them. We had a 1993 SL2 4 door. I thought it was really sharp for a 4 door at the time, and the quality was top notch, and I actually enjoyed visiting the dealership. All we had to do was maintainence for 180,000. We didn't like the rounded style they went to so we bought Ford Tauruses for our next two cars. They were also sharp and very reliable. Now my wife has a 2007 Saturn Aura and I have a 2008 Chevy Malibu. The Saturn is clearly the better looking of the two, and it feel nore solid than the Chevy. We don't have enough miles on them yet to judge reliability. I will miss Saturn. I was thinking about trading my Malibu in for an Aura.

Well if they're trying to avoid going down the tubes, they don't seem to be to do anything to avoid their demise. We have (at last count) 8,000 cars sitting up here outside of the Baltimore harbor that dealers won't take delivery of. Why aren't the dealers and GM trying to unload anything at their "real COST" to eliminate inventory? I stopped by one of my local GM dealers just looking and they weren't really doing anything to try and get me to buy anything. :rolleyes: rr

Saturn may not be "done" quite yet. While GM may be giving the division the ax, Someone with alot of money has been waiting for the announcement and may be putting in a purchase offer for the division. We'll just have to wait and see if it happens.

Thats a good point, Casper. But GM is supposedly shopping for a buyer for Hummer which will likely happen since they have a following of enthusiasts. I could see Pontiac being snapped up by a waiting buyer before Saturn tho.

all while never attracting any attention from the local law enforcement

... or anyone else, apparently.

The Saturn project surely generated a lot of buzz in the industry and they tried some innovative things. I loved the concept of no haggle pricing because I find the traditional "let me check with the manager" car buying experience to be one of the distasteful things I can ever imagine doing. Unfortunately, Saturn failed in the showroom with the lack of compelling products. No matter how many gimmicks you layer on top of a mediocre product, if the product is not compelling, game over. The last round of self effacing commercials from Saturn pointed out their image very succinctly, where someone walks in a Saturn dealership, sees some halfway decent looking cars inside, and then has to do a double take on the dealership sign to confirm they are actually in a Saturn dealership. Duh. This would be a funny commercial if it was not so sad.

Who is to blame? Despite what Saturn tried, they still had to serve a master who was slow and plodding and steeped in bureaucracy and a total lack of innovative thinking. Maybe GM never gave them any good designers. Or maybe GM had no good designers to give? Other than the Corvette, Cadillac, Silverado trucks, what does GM/Chevy have in their inventory? The Honda-Clone-Malibu, PT Cruiser Clone HHR, niche market Camaro, a bunch of totally bland SUVs, a decent enough Cobalt, etc. Not a lot of excitement coming out of GM these days. Their days are numbered.

I loved the concept of no haggle pricing because I find the traditional "let me check with the manager" car buying experience to be one of the distasteful things I can ever imagine doing.

Well, this may have hurt Saturn in the long run. As dumb as it may sound, people need to feel like they got a special deal, and that old trick still works.

Well, this may have hurt Saturn in the long run. As dumb as it may sound, people need to feel like they got a special deal, and that old trick still works.

Even when they are really getting hosed. Sad, but true.

How about having a design contest in which the winner would get some big bucks for the winning design. Have a couple of pages of design criteria, and put some ads in the car mags.. let the winning design be voted on by the public at large, give them a small prize for voting for their favorite design...ah, probably too much of a hassle. Lets just sit here and go broke slowly, giving the public what we think they want. Phraaaap!

I, in my humble opinion, no matter how much they gave us feelings of pleasure and joy, if they are going to die let them die. There is no reason for the government to take them over with chapter 11, 13 ,14 or whatever they call it. Let them die. We do not need the government to own them as with the EAU. The European Auto Union that was owned by the SOCIALIST government. We do not want to become a Socialist government. If I owned a company that I plagued with mistakes I would not expect anyone else to pay for it if it failed. Please study the trends that are happening and call your Representative and tell him to stand up and fight for you, me, and all of us that elected him or her.

Hi All:

My now ( ex-wife ) and I owned two Saturns. While going to work, A Subaru going about 50 mph in a 25 mph zone hit me ( T-Boned ) on the drive side. The car made two full 360 in a single lane street. The Subaru's front was severaly damaged and the Saturn folded almost in half. When the policed arrived, he asked if the person was still alive, and I said yes, and he made a doulbe take at me and the car. The only injury I had was from the seat belt digging into my shoulder.

The Saturn was totaled. The next day we went to see the car at the dealership, and my ex-wife said, " you walked away from that? "

That car saved my life. Like Volvo's, they are ugly, but will take a %^&*^%$ hit.

Voxxer

Yea, Hummer should be an easy sale... I would hope someone would pick up Pontiac (still scratching my head at that... why not Buick?) and Roger Penske is all over the Saturn deal. Atleast with penske I have a name and a face, along with the money to back it up... again, time will tell

I laughed at the lady who bought the "support or troops" type of ribbons and she kept tring to put them on her quarterpanels. after watching her pick them up pff the ground a dozen times I drove over across the parking lot and told her her car was plastic. She thanked me for the info , LOL
( I bet she mumbled .... durn magnets)

Sold off and reborn? dunno. Wonder how anxious GM would be to see their old division brands competing with what they held on to? Kind of risky, having a franchise GM built, owned and walked away from... that they could sell and enable to come back.... with new different products and maybe take off and outsell Chevy right here?

GM's divisions had enough trouble competing with themselves before when many of their products were identical under the skin.

It was interesting reading your comments about GM and Saturn. Saturn in some cases was the launch bed for new products like the Delta ( Cobalt) and Vue plateform. I feel that guys like Rick Wagner had lead the company in the wrong direction. You need to have great products in all segments. From entry level to high end. Cars and trucks for all kind of folks. Pratical to fun. GM failed. You can let shareholders run the company. Customer should always come first.

The Japense car manufacters really had the first no hassel pricing. Saturn was a experiment that worked in the beginning but failed in the end. Many car are just rebaged GM. For example the Vue is the same plateform as Chevy Equinox, Pontiac Torrent and Suzuki XL-7. (The last Pontiac Torrent went of the assembly line this week and the old Equinox is done this Tuesday). GM needs to trim the fat and focus on making the rest of their line up the best they can. It sad to see the big three going down but they have forgotten the most important thing. Their customers. Build right and they will come back.

SaturnFans gets weekly updates.
http://www.saturnfans.com/

Right now it looks like GM is trying to sell Saturn.

On a personal note my family currently owns 3 of the S-series and they have been very reliable cars. The best part is no rust!
I would be sad to see Saturn go.

If I had the money I wouldn't mind owning one of their Sky Red Lines.

It is sad to see the big three going down but they have forgotten the most important thing. Their customers. Build right and they will come back.

Of the big three, there is one that is not accepting any bail out money, and will not need to restructure to survive. I gotta say, ever since that guy from the original Ford family took back over Ford, I've been a fan. He started streamlining their line years ago. To say the redesign of the Mustang was a major success is an understatement, and it's available from the highest end options, right down to entry level, basic v6. It's the ONLY production car designed, and built in the USA thats in the top ten in sales numbers. This success has lead Dodge and Chevy to bring back their Pony cars.
Also, Ford has maintained a rear wheel drive vehicle, the Crown Victoria, for city and law enforcement use. Dodge dropped out after 1991, ending the production of their Dodge Diplomat, and Chrysler New Yorker. Chevy followed in 1996, changing the design of the Impala. Although Dodge and Chevy still offered packages on other vehicles, no law enforcement in their right mind would give up a rear wheel drive v8 for an under powered, front wheel drive v6. This defaulted all sales in that market to Ford. Dodge brought back the Charger package in 2007 with success, but GM hasn't woke up yet. The absence of Dodge and Chevy in this market for a combined total of 29 years, (16 for Dodge, 13 and counting for Chevy), has no doubt helped Ford be stronger for now. This is just one niche market that shows that when it comes to cars in the USA, old school is better than new school.

just my two pesos.

Rich

Mopar used to own the police car market. :(

Rich, you made a good assessment of Ford's strength compared to the rest of the big three. I vote for you to take over GM and bring it back to the land of the living!

Sold off and reborn? dunno. Wonder how anxious GM would be to see their old division brands competing with what they held on to? Kind of risky, having a franchise GM built, owned and walked away from... that they could sell and enable to come back.... with new different products and maybe take off and outsell Chevy right here?

GM's divisions had enough trouble competing with themselves before when many of their products were identical under the skin.

I dunno, I think an independent market would be good right now.
Remember the days of Studebaker, Hudson, Packard, Nash, Willy's, and many others?
Would it be safe to say that quality was important then?
All this new technology laying around, surely some new car companies could make it.

Is SCK banned AGAIN?

Rich

Also, Ford has maintained a rear wheel drive vehicle, the Crown Victoria, for city and law enforcement use.
Rich[/QUOTE]

I just live down the road were the Crown Vics are made. They sell only 30,000 units to the public, the other 100,000 units made are for fleet sales such as Taxi, Police, and car rental agents. In other words with out police and taxi it would go the way of the dodo bird. I hear that 2011 that line will be shut down for good. GM did have a police package for the Impala and Tahoe autos, Dodge has Magnum(no longer made) and Charger packages.

Also,
Rich

I just live down the road were the Crown Vics are made. They sell only 30,000 units to the public, the other 100,000 units made are for fleet sales such as Taxi, Police, and car rental agents. In other words with out police and taxi it would go the way of the dodo bird. I hear that 2011 that line will be shut down for good. GM did have a police package for the Impala and Tahoe autos, Dodge has Magnum(no longer made) and Charger packages.[/QUOTE]

Weere do you live SlotRod? I retired from the Gm plant in London and have quite a few friends in St. T as well as supported the Wharf in Port Stanley one summer lol..


Dave

[QUOTE=AfxToo;2827825]... or anyone else, apparently.

I loved the concept of no haggle pricing because I find the traditional "let me check with the manager" car buying experience to be one of the distasteful things I can ever imagine doing. QUOTE]

Gotta disagree on this one. I called B.S. on it when they first announced it back in the early 90's, since you can get 'no haggle' pricing anywhere: Simply pay the sticker price. The whole concept revolves around the idea that whatever it says on the sheet thats what you pay. EVERY dealership starts out that way, but theres room to negotiate--Saturn thinks youre so stupid you wont even TRY to get the price down any.

As previously stated, just not enough drama to please the average customer.
There's no sense of accomplishment, no "Well, we really made that dealer bend over backwards
and give us a good price. Heck, he had to clear the deal with his manager!"


No Drama

Oh and Rich, I think we're both on the same wavelenght on that independent market thing. Ive been saying for a LONG time that having multiple, smaller car companies that have distinct identities and who really cater towards a certain caliber of customer is the way to roll.

Ok, so Im an unapologetic AMC fan. They owned Jeep so I kinda have to be, but lets look at the track record:

Gremlin and Pacer: Go ahead, laugh. Pintos exploded, Vegas rusted out (real shame since they look like Camaro larva) both were known for tossing rods out of the blocks at 40K miles but Gremlins were actually a well made car. There was some actual beef there, the inline sixes were good enough for base engines in Jeeps, and both actually offered the 304 V-8 from the factory. Wanna laugh at a v-8 Gremlin? Go ahead, you can laugh at his tail lights.

Javelin and AMX: 2 of the most beautiful automobiles ever. Totally turned around AMC's image overnite and TransAm fans know that Donohue's rides were to be feared and respected.

Eagle 4x4's: WAY ahead of their time, beefier than some compact SUVs at the time, and 10 times the vehicle of any of these laughable crossovers they make now. You still see them here in Oregon here and there, going strong.

Jeep: The list of innovations here was pretty deep, but a few highlights: V-8 power in the CJ series, XJ Cherokee which is arguably one of the best SUVs ever made which goes twice again for the Grand Cherokee, more 4x4 of the year awards than any other brand--prolly as many as half the other makes combined, the Wrangler remains one of two 4x4's still available in the states with straight (real) front axle, 4.0L I-6 one of the most durable, long lasting, and best performing 6 cyl engines ever built.

All of these were under AMC, who was constantly struggling to maintain a R&D budget, had some of the most genius designers and engineers in the industry, and was a very much underrated and underappreciated make. Love or hate them, hardly anyone who knows or cares anything about cars knows who AMC is. As opposed to entire lines of cars such as Olds, Mercury, Lincoln, GMC, Saturn and Buick which are nothing but softened up, warmed over versions of something else barring a very few bright spots over the years.

The whole car purchasing experience is totally outdated and obsolete. When you think about it, cars are basically sold the same way horses were sold 150+ years ago, where the horse you bought was unique and you had to go to the lot and check the teeth on the old mare. Cars are manufactured products so you should be able to test drive representative models at factory sponsored "test drive centers" and then order exactly what you want from a catalog, and have it delivered to your door in a week or two, at most. Other than the service and support aspects that dealers provide, they don't really add anything to the deal, for me at least.

If nothing else, the next couple of years will be interesting to watch as the US auto industry tries to reinvent itself. Can they? If they get back to basics and just concentrate on building decent cars, who knows? This may simply be a case of the automobile industry reaching a level of maturity and universal mediocrity with the vast majority of buyers. Brand loyalty is less important and non existent in many cases, especially with younger buyers. The generations of marketing hype that led people to believe that the car they drove reflected their social status (which still is and always has been total bunk) does not resonate with as many buyers as it once did. Those were simpler times with simpler people. Bottom line is that cars just are not that important to as many people as they once were.

I think cars have simply become appliances that fill a functional need, and not so much a personal need. Buying a car today is more about moving you from point A to point B, not making you feel good about yourself. I'm cool with that. The horseless carriage has reached the pinnacle of its evolution and achieved universal ubiquity, mediocrity, and insignificance. The auto makers will go the way of the shoe makers, the clothing makers, and the toaster oven makers, and all such products that reach a point in their evolution where the only thing that matters is how cheap you can build them. At least we got to witness the primitive and idealistic innocence of the automobile industry, when these products still mattered to most people.

See, Im NOT ok with cars becoming appliances to fill a need. If Im spending $20-30K and higher on something, I want it to be EXACTLY what I want. To me its an expression of who I am. The status thing means nothing to me, its about me liking what Im rolling in and what it says about who I am. Id happily turn my nose up at a brand new Mercedes. Theres no way I could feel like Chuck G rolling in something like that. As long as it ran strong and was reliable, roadworthy and had a certain character, Id rather have a used Jeep or muscle car with faded paint, primer spots and a little surface rust. It wouldnt impress anyone but me, and thats all that matters. One thing that really burns me right now is the fact that you cant even get a manual transmission on a fullsize truck anymore. I hate automatics, and taking away my choice ensures Ill NEVER buy one. If they want to cater to people who dont want to actually drive means Ill never spend my money with them.

I agree that the majority of buyers out there DO want 'transportation devices' such as a camry or minivan and thats fine. Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, etc can have that market all to themselves and I dont care.

But there needs to be a few niche manufacturers who will build you a 2-door coupe with a long hood, short deck, V-8, rwd and a manual tranny, or a short wheelbase 4x4 with REAL offroad capability and that can be stripped down to a body tub, rollcage, seats and tires if you want. Add to that small roadsters that handle like go-karts and will rev to 9K rpm and hatchbacks that can be flung around corners at insane G forces yet get 35 mpg. And the government, lawyers, bean counters, tree huggers, etc need to butt their stupid arses the F#@! out of it. As long as its safe to drive and doesnt have stupid design flaws like exposed gas tanks or anything there should be no restrictions on what can be built to cater to the enthusiasts. Cars that get people excited and cater to people who are passionate about driving is what America does best in this industry. Too long we've been chasing Toyota and Honda and we're paying the price for that right now. That and Uncle Sam has been far too involved. Politicians who have never even held a real job shouldnt be telling a corporation responsible for thousands of peoples' jobs how to run their business. Just my 2 cents.

AFXToo you are really on to something there. With the whole point & click, Buy It Now generation I think a complete overhaul of the 'car dealership' experience would actually work really well.

For the buyer -- I can go online at home, select a model and options to my taste, and print out my new car invoice for example. I take the build sheet to a dealer, drive a comparable model (i.e. engine & transmission), maybe check out some of the option items, and then the sales rep and I go back online and make any changes if needed and submit the order. The sales rep could then collect the down payment and 'my car' goes into the que to be built.

For the Auto Makers -- They get a daily list of cars & options that need to be built. No more making 'X' number of green Tauruses with convenience option group A, engine & trans option B, and trim option C. Instead they just make what is needed and ship it out to the dealer when it completed.

You might have to wait a few weeks for your car, but it is built to your 'specs' and tastes. Want a sedan with a 5-speed? Go for it. Want a HEMI in your baseline Charger? Go for it. Want the cool color & trim on your base model daily driver? Go for it.

You could open up the option sheet like the old days. I'd be down for that. Seriously -- A new Camaro SS is out of my price range but a base Camaro with the big motor might be do-able, for example.

Seriously -- If the auto makers could put the options out there, and let the people pick & choose what they want and what they don't, the end result is that what you would end up buying would be exactly what you want and therefore could be perceived as a better value. Let people decide how much to spend, and what to spend it on, and I think the sales would follow.

That would be brilliant and unfortunately will probably never happen.

Politicians who have never even held a real job shouldnt be telling a corporation responsible for thousands of peoples' jobs how to run their business.

When the companies came asking for Billions in Bailouts from the government, everything changed. I expect to hear "How High" from the corporate captains who drove their ships aground. Especially for a company like Chrysler which is owned by a private equity firm. We're basically bailing out speculators who made a bad deal. Bummer to be us. :(

Manufacturing has been geared towards a flexible build-to-order, just in time model for quite some time. The infrastructure is basically in place and it could have been implemented years ago, albeit not with one-click ordering from the privacy of your man cave.

I'm hopeful that there will be fundamental changes in the way cars are built that will be beneficial over the long run. The economy of scale model sustained the big companies for decades, but then the scale turned on them in the form of unsustainable costs structures due to mismanagement. What's happening now is the Big Flush, the scorched earth, start all over again, massive Ctrl-Alt-Del of an entire industry.

What happens next? The US automobile manufacturers have two fundamental choices: they can recast the model and adopt lighter weight, highly flexible manufacturing processes that change the game and reinvigorate their customer base and exploit brand differentiation, or they can keep driving to the bottom line and continue the move to relegate automobiles to the role of transportation appliances, most of which would come from Korea, China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc. We will see. My hope is that some new players like Penske may jump in and show the dinosaurs that you can build a highly compelling and competitive product, and do it in the same country where you intend to sell the product to an eagerly waiting customer base.

I've purposely kept silent about this because I know alot of you guys are really passionate about your cars and brands. I've been involved in sales since I graduated from college back in 89. I always had this dream of owning my own franchise car dealership, so the first five years of my career I sold cars, and I can honestly say the demise of Chrysler, and GM being on life support is completely of their own arrogance.
I worked for a few different dealers and brands in the Charlotte, NC area because I wanted to learn the industry and find out as much as I could about the whole market. I also developed a relationship with some of the factory reps who sold the cars to the dealerships and got a real feeling for how the manufacturers ran their business. The American auto manufacturers are where they are because they never took the Japanese competition seriously.
I remember talking to the Chevy rep who laughed at the Accord, saying that the Celebrity would always outsell it simply because it was American. Never mind that the Accord was a much better vehicle overall. I asked him why Chevy never invested in improving the vehicle, and he said why should they? Americans will always buy Chevrolets. We don't have to improve. Flash forward 20 years, and which company is struggling to give their vehicles away?
The American companies pissed away their natural home market advantage by taking the American consumer for granted, and by having a patronizing attitude. Don't be mad at Honda or Toyota for the fact that GM, Ford, and Chrysler spent the past 50 years patting themselves on the back instead of improving their vehicles. If you buy one of their vehicles solely because it's an American product, then you are part of the reason they never felt the need to make better vehicles than the outside competition. Just my observation from the inside of the business.