Half of GM Dealers, Pontiac To Close

LINK (http://automotive.speedtv.com/article/autos-half-of-gm-dealers-pontiac-to-close/)

:(

Pontiac Heritage (http://origin-prod-bl.pnangis.gm.com/heritage/)

Post your pics if you got 'em -- 1:1s or slots.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/SexyBeast.jpg

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/DoorCounty-0011.jpg

Given the Government's inverstment in GM, aren't all taxpayers sort of like stock holders in GM now? Is this how we want our investment protected? Perhaps we have reached the point that our Seanators and Representatives need to hear from us regarding the future of GM. Leaving the leadership that got GM into its current position is like keeping the coach of a 0-500 sports franchise that you just bought. No new team owner would do that and we shouldn't allow these corporate clowns to stay in power.

This saddens me to no end. Pontiac is the whole reason I am a car nut and work in the industry. We will miss you chief pontiac!!!

My 80 trans am after its restoration.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/pontiacfan1972/80ta003.jpg
My 95 formula convertable and my girlfriends 02 trans am.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/pontiacfan1972/95carpics001.jpg
My 88 formula.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/pontiacfan1972/88formuladriveway.jpg
My 76 trans am.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/pontiacfan1972/76tadriveway.jpg
My 89 turbo anniversary pace car trans am during its current resto after someone tried to steal it!
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/pontiacfan1972/89%20tta/P4110184.jpg
My diecast cabinets in my office here at work.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u9/pontiacfan1972/P4020174.jpg

Id say shut down GMC-- just clones of chevy trucks, everything there is redundant, buick-- old fart cars; theyre entire target market will be worm food in 5 years anyway and cadillac more old fart cars, except for that CTS coupe they plan on bringing out, THAT should be the next pontiac. Hummer should stick around, the H3 and the HX concept are great ideas. Give them soft tops, solid axles all around and more militarized look, kinda like an H1 that actually fits places and is somewhat affordable to drive.

Somehow this makes me sad...

Of course I was sad when Plymouth went away also...

Scott

Hey Pontiacfan, That is a sweet pace car. Not to take away from it my brothers 69 GTO (yes, Pontiac) would walk away from the turbo in third and still have fourth gear. This was a top end stunt he would play with and could be pretty scary to ride with also.
Today I heard 40 % of Chevrolet dealers will go bye-bye. Luckily for my brother he works at one of central MO's larger dealers. I don't have enough fingers to count the small ones around that will be gone. I got out of the tech side a year and a half ago and tried parts for Dodge. Look up dodge in the dictionary. Now I am unemployed. I stay away from the car business now while I kick the "Black Dog."

Some of my GTO slots.

Myself and my friends were always Pontiac fans.

I owned a 67 LeMans (GTO clone) w/ 400, Ram Air 4 heads, camed, etc, etc, was probally one of the top 10 fastest cars in my area at the time I had it. Somewhere I still have the time slips, if I come across them I will post um, was a low 12 second daily driver.

My grandmother had a 77 TA, my best friend had a 87 firebird 305....poor car couldn't beat my 89 civic back when I had it. His father currently has a 2000 TA vert, my uncle had a 73 LeMans and it goes on and on.

Needless to say its a sad day for gearheads.

BTW pontiacfan1972 please, please post pics of the 89 Turbo when its finished.

To this day that car is still one of the fastest F-bodys GM ever pushed out, GNX that can take a corner....what!!!!

Also love the others. I miss my F-body, too bad GM made the best TA's and Camaros right before they killed the program.

That's a mighty fine goat herd you have Win. I still say you need a shepard.

A government loan does not ownership make, Everything the government tries to run turns to crap. Do you enjoy your trip to the DMV or tax time? The government should stay out!

You can understandably feel sorry for the GM dealers, but the whole excess number of dealers is just one more example of issues that were never addressed. Toyota and GM sell similar numbers of cars here. GM is to reduce its dealers to 3,605 from 6,246, a cut of over 2600. Toyota only has 1486 total in the U.S.!!!!! Add about 200 Lexus dealers and, even after drastic cuts, GM will still have over twice the retail outlets as Toyota - makes it hard for a lot of them to be profitable, doesn't it?

Hutt man, calm down. The gov-mint never should have stepped in, but when they did they made a symbolic move and fired CEO Rich Waggoner. He was hanging on to too much of the status quo, but GM and the UAW dug their own graves together 30+ years ago when the world changed and they didn't. Too much to go into, but the worst offenders are long gone......

If the government didnt give them billions, they would be long gone. Doesnt matter, theyre in such a deep hole, they wont recover. Getting rid of Pontiac is just the first step to ultimate ending. What a shame. Ive owned Chevys, Buicks and Pontiacs. 1987 Buick Grand National being my most favorite of all.

Ford toyed with the retro styling of the Mustang in '94, then came the VW Beetle, PT Cruiser and Mini Cooper. Dodge and Chevy are ten years behind with the releases of the Challenger and Camaro. Pontiac blew it with their 'retro' GTO. Market share has nothing to do with profitability. People stand in line and gladly pay the asking price and more for the Retro rides. All the automakers should have scaled back years ago and built better cars.

Rich

It is no fun playing devil's advocate when y'all are being so confounded reasonable! Now you're going to make me actually work to have fun! Might as well work on that sweet batch of puppies that came in the mail from Bad Dawg... Let's see, do I start with the T-Jet Boss Mustang or the Tyco Chevelle Stocker? Or do I get ready for delievery races with those two vans: UPS vs FedEx? Decisions, decisions, decicions...

Where did I put that rare Peruvian Farkleberry lacquer paint? :drunk::hat::freak::dude::tongue:

Sad day, that's for sure.

My first new car was a '96 Firebird Formula. Great car, never had a problem with it. Sorry to see another classic brand go away.

My dad was a big wide track Pontiac fan, owning a 62 and later a 68 Bonneville. I have many fond family memories that were created from the times we all spent in those beautiful and distinctive cars. Smooth as silk with an afterburner when you needed it. Goodbye Pontiac, you will be missed.

Everything the government tries to run turns to crap. Do you enjoy your trip to the DMV or tax time? The government should stay out!

You, sir are a genius. What is your IQ, like 350? haha!

Grunge, I have to agree with you, not about me being a genius but the part about GMC and Buick... "5 years later turning to worm food". That is just bad a$$ math.

First car I ever owned was a "59" Bonneville. Bought it in 1971, when I was in high school, for $200. Had a 389 V8 with a 4 barrel carb. First car I ever drove over 100 MPH out on the highway. Had a lot of fun in that car. Sad to see Pontiac go.

Hey Illinislotfan, what part of Illinois you from?


Tjettom Baker Central Illinois

North of Chicago, up near the Wisconsin border.
Joe

Yep, nothing but classics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/%2780-%2784_Pontiac_Phoenix_5-Door.jpg/800px-%2780-%2784_Pontiac_Phoenix_5-Door.jpg
http://image.automotive.com/f/images/16201528+pheader/hppp_0903_01_z+1985_pontiac_t1000+burnout.jpg
http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218358_pr.jpg

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

My brother had a 75 Formula Firebird and a 68 Firebird. Wish I had pics.

Groovy pantsuits La-tees. Those stripes are HOT :0

Didn't think that Monza/whatever Pontiac badged it bodystyle was that bad looking- other than the stick-on looking trim they used (well, it was stuck on), and what can you say about the Mighty T 1000? LOL. You think that one was hopped up a little?

Now for the incredible X cars..... there was a milestone. Or maybe a tombstone. Gark. Funny I don't see them showing up at cruise-ins these days.

I'm truly surprised Phoenix, AZ didn't change their name after this came out..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/%2780-%2784_Pontiac_Phoenix_5-Door.jpg/800px-%2780-%2784_Pontiac_Phoenix_5-Door.jpg

Just what ashes did it rise out of anyway!! :lol:

The Pontiac version of the Monza was the Sunbird, SP. That was my TM's first car; she bought it at the beginning of her senior year in college. Looked cool but it was a major mechanical nightmare. Murphy was working OT on this baby as she went down the line. Many an evening in beautiful West Lafayette, IN, I would have to schelp back to my dorm, fire up my bondo-encrusted '65 Karman Ghia and tote my tool box to where ever the Sunbird had stranded us for some quick repair. Or drive her home and get it towed to the dealer the next day. This one was not Pontiac's finest moment. :freak::freak:

I always wanted one of these with a 400 in it.

http://image.highperformancepontiac.com/f/9021390/hppp_060300_16z+1973_Pontiac_Ventura+Passenger_Sid e_View.jpg
http://www.pontiacventura.com/ventura_images/1972ventura_pics/jraposo2%20driver%20quarter.JPG


Heck, these days, even the aero-nascar looking one looks good.

http://www.greaterdakotaclassics.com/images/auctioncars/knoke/1977%20Ventura.jpg

:thumbsup:
Rich

All Hail The God 77-79 Trans Am

My brother had a 68 Ram Air IV firebird with a 400, close ratio 4 speed, posi rear, tach in hood blah blah blah. He was literally afraid of the car. Me, being the boneheaded "Gear Head" of the family would con him into going for "test drives" with him with me at the wheel. I'd get him screaming like a girl to slow down. Only thing is he couldn't beat me up until we got out of the car because when he was in the car he was holding on for dear life. Man those seats were slippery.

Also had a 79 phoenix in college that I got for free that was pretty used up by the time I got it. We had painted it several times at parties with rollers and brushes, one time even like the general lee. Overheated and seized the engine twice and never did fix it right because I had no money. Experienced "paradise by the dash board lights" in that car quite often. Finally found a "better" free car and drove the phoenix into a junkyard, knocking and banging on their "if you can drive it in we'll give you $50 for it day". Oh the memories, I could go on....

I'll miss those Pontiac rides.

Oh Rich!!! I forgot the ventura!!!! Dang!! For those who don't know, one of the huge benefits of the Pontiac was it's engines... From the smallest to the biggest the block was the same size. A buddy of mine's girlfriend had a Buick Regal and siezed up the engine. I had just torn the nose off a 76 Trans Am to verify the serial number to put it through inspection, and had given up on the car. (I could not locate the engine block # and the next place was on the firewall behind the heater blower motor. She had a small (correct me if I'm wrong) 3.8 L pont engine in the regal. So out came the 3.8L, in went the 400 CI. The only modification we had to do was grind a bit off the exhaust manifold to clear the column mounter shifter. We weren't crazy enough to put the shaker scoop on, but it probably would have fit too.

So out came the 3.8L, in went the 400 CI. The only modification we had to do was grind a bit off the exhaust manifold to clear the column mounter shifter. We weren't crazy enough to put the shaker scoop on, but it probably would have fit too.

So, did the steering wheel eventually melt? :lol:

I think the one of the reasons I liked the Ventura is because this movie when I was a kid.
It features an all Pontiac chase. A Ventura chasing a Catalina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgLH8WAWGt0&feature=related

It's kinda Hollywood.
The GM Ventura horn didn't sound like that and it sounds like he's running open headers.

Wow!! A blast from the past!! The ventura horn sounded like a train horn to me!! Was it just me or did one of them kids say "Holy Frijoles!!"??? :lol: I never did see the whole movie, but I do remember the chase scene.. Thanks Rich for bringing back an old memory and giving me the source so I can revisit it!! :thumbsup:

Thank you to all the enviromentalists, the EPA, CAFE standards, heavy taxation and our new big government.

I can't image a performance world without Pontiac. Its sobering to realize the new Camaro will not have its Firebird twin as it has had with 4 previous generations of F-bodies.

R.I.P Pontiac and the Trans-Ams of my youth to be never again.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama

Is it just me or does the driver of the Catalina look like the driver of the black Charger from Bullit? Also listen to the engine sounds they also sound like the mustang from Bullit. Minus the bazillion speed tranny that the Mustang had. He was always shifting gears.

Thank you to all the enviromentalists, the EPA, CAFE standards, heavy taxation and our new big government.

I can't image a performance world without Pontiac. Its sobering to realize the new Camaro will not have its Firebird twin as it has had with 4 previous generations of F-bodies.

R.I.P Pontiac and the Trans-Ams of my youth to be never again.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama

Maybe that's a good thing....

http://jalopnik.com/5232715/first-camaro-crap+out-comes-40-miles-from-dealership

German & Jap cars break down too -- it's a fact. :thumbsup:

German & Jap cars break down too -- it's a fact. :thumbsup:

We will all soon know that to be true first hand.

Good Luck to the U.A.W. They will now run the show.

German & Jap cars break down too -- it's a fact. :thumbsup:

Yeah. Theres a HUGE difference tho: If something on my Jeep goes bad, its likely a $100 part. If something on a German car goes bad its like $250. If its a Jap car, then its like $1400 for the same thing.

I was sitting at a red light back in the summer of 99. This guy in a brand new redesigned Chevy truck opened his door and put both hands on the drivers door glass and tried to raise the window.
I guess Japs can make a great TV, Radio, and electronics on cars.
I wish we could go back to mechanically engineered cars. Mechanical engineering is what made this country great. We won both world wars with it, and industrialized the world with it. But, mechanical engineering is becoming a lost art.

If something on my Jeep goes bad, its likely a $100 part. If something on a German car goes bad its like $250. If its a Jap car, then its like $1400 for the same thing.

Same part, $100 or $1400? A concrete example, please?

The German cars that are sold in the US, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc., are skimmed from the top edge of the product lines that the German manufacturers produce. Then they mark them up even over what they charge to EU customers to create an added air of exclusivity and sophistication for the US market. Hey, if it costs more, it must be better? Right.

GM's troubles are of its own making. They have an unsustainable cost structure, one they signed up for of their own free will, and they simply cannot compete. They made horrible investments in new product development, made stupid acquisitions, like Hummer and Saab, and squandered, at great expense, brand equity that they had in some of their product lines like Oldsmobile, and now Pontiac. Throwing away Pontiac is just plain stupid because it will cost them more than they will ever save and does nothing to address the root cause of GM's problems. They learned from the Oldsmobile debacle, as Chrysler did from Plymouth, that closing down one of their brands in no way guarantees them that existing customers of that brand are going to move to other brands under the same umbrella. When you force a customer to change you also open up the possibility that they are going to change to a competitors product. In the Olds and Plymouth cases, many did.

Over the past decade or so GM transitioned from being a automobile manufacturer into being a health care insurance company that also happened to build cars. There are some problems you cannot engineer your way out of, mechanically, electrically, or industrially. This is one of them. If we, the taxpayers bail out GM it's purely based on a desire to reduce the human suffering that will entail because of massive job losses both within GM and the multitude of suppliers and service providers in their supply chain. Plus, it will further tank the US economy, at least until we all realize that GM is no longer relevant. Unfortunately, GM set themselves on the path to irrelevancy years ago, it's just that they, and the market, were in denial and ignored the obvious problems with GMs cost structure. It didn't even take a perfect storm to sink GM, a few months of escalating gas prices, an overall drop in the market, and a couple months later, their fate was sealed.

Heck, these days, even the aero-nascar looking one looks good.

http://www.greaterdakotaclassics.com/images/auctioncars/knoke/1977%20Ventura.jpg

:thumbsup:
Rich[/QUOTE]

I knew someone that had one of those with a stick!!!

It makes me sick about Pontiac. My brothers first car was a '66 GTO. It was literally 3 different Pontiacs put together. (al parts cars) My Dad had two, a brand new '64 Catalina, and then a brand new '66 Bonneville. Both were really nice two door hardtops, I know the Catalina had a 389, and I think the Bonne had a 389 as well but I'm not sure. He traded his '59 Edsel for the Catalina. That must have really been a major step up for him:tongue: Dave

Same part, $100 or $1400? A concrete example, please?



Yes, Im being a LITTLE ridiculous. But I CAN give examples of what I mean:

My sister's '85 Supra had a relay for the windshield wipers go bad. $350 used. Same part for my dad's '84 Dodge ram was $30.

My ex g/f picked up a mid 80s honda civic cheap for like $1300. There was a small key on the camshaft that sheared off (and this is a VERY common occurance) and because of the engine design, the valves and the pistons butted heads and it wiped out the top end of the engine. $1500 to fix. Junked the car. Most american cars are designed so that in this same instance there is no valve-piston interference and fixing the same issue is around $300.

85 Supra parts are really common. :D

How many motors do the same when the timing belt breaks?

My post was a joke but how many Camaro's do you think have the cable ran exactly the same? My bet is more then half.

My daily driver. Only the 2nd Pontiac I've ever owned but it's faster than just about every muscle car I've owned over the past 30 years and gets 26 mpg on the highway. :cool:

Sad that GM is killing the Pontiac line. :(

My daily driver. Only the 2nd Pontiac I've ever owned but it's faster than just about every muscle car I've owned over the past 30 years and gets 26 mpg on the highway. :cool:

Sad that GM is killing the Pontiac line. :(

Nice Holden! j/k :p

There is a guy near my house who drives by with a newer GTO and that baby just rumbles by soooo niiiice.

The GTO would have sold better if it didn't look almost axactly like every Grand Prix and Grand Am built in the last 10 years.

Maybe she was had: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-SUPRA-82-85-WIPER-CONTROL-RELAY-_W0QQitemZ250226158755QQcmdZViewItem

Hey, I know where you are coming from. But I don't think it's a US assembled vs. assembled somewhere else issue. Most modern designed cars are not built for servicing and even a $25 part can end up with a $300 labor bill when you're paying for the automotive surgeon to extract the part from the plethora of wires, tubes, and plastic that enshroud the engine. When I look under the hood of most any new car I'm hard pressed to recognize the presence of a motor. Most modern cars are simply appliances.

One of my first cars was a '66 Dodge Dart 225 slant-6, motor encrusted with black crud that I dared not remove, and I could literally climb inside the motor compartment. Three on the tree and rubber matting in lieu of carpeting. Paid $150 for it when it had 175K miles on it and sold it for $300 after racking up another 30K miles or so. As basic a car as you could find, not even an AM radio.

In my mind the 66/67 GTO was one of the most beautiful automobiles ever produced. Coke bottle body lines (later adopted by the 68-70 Dodge Charger, my all time favorite Mopar) and stacked headlights, the 66/67 GTOs were the pinnacle of the breed. Pontiac never captured that magic in the goat again. The 68-70s were okay, but just the first ones in the long, slow fade of the GTO from its peak. I'll give up brute HP for drop dead gorgeous looks any day. The 66/67 GTO was the full package.

Here's my biggest money pit pontiac.. Not saying I didn't love it, just that I dumped a ton of cash into her, and never really got a chance to enjoy her. Originally a sprint 6 cyl., she had her first engine replaced before I got her. Catastrophic engine failure led to here being bought by me for a decent price. She had 2 engines in her after that. The first a drop in 350 I had laying around.. (yes at one time I was quite handy with a set of wrenches, and did have quite the stockpile of pontiac stuff laying around!!) The second engine I dropped in was a bargain so I had to go for it. I picked up a 68 400 out of a GTO from a machine shop for the shop bill. Heads and block. The same guy who hooked me up with the engine also sold me the dual quad highrise that ended up on the engine. I built the engine from all new parts, pulled the subframe and built the entire front end from a bare frame. All new parts there. Basically any mechanical part from the firewall fowards was new. Then I had a buddy of mine give it a real nice mid 80's GM aqua metallic paint job, and redid the interior in parchment white. The biggest mistake I made was going with the rock crusher tranny.. I had a turbo 400 I could have stuck in there.. I should have. After getting it all together I found out about 200 miles down the road I had a bad throw out bearing. I wasn't about to pull it all apart again. Then tractor trailer school showed up and loans and bills needed paying so up for sale she went. Over 8500.00 invested...sold for 3500.00. Not my last pontiac, but the only one I have even 1 picture of, and the next ponco was more bondo than steel!! :lol:


http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp251/slotcarman12078/64553868.jpg

Yup, she was a sleeper!!!

Cool wheels but sad story. :(