The reaper comes for Pontiac on Monday perhaps :cry:

LINK (http://automotive.speedtv.com/article/autos-pontiac-dies-monday-reports-say/)

ya Me thinks the writing is on the wall.

Lame. Pontiac is one of the few GM nameplates that has any appeal whasoever. Why not dump Buick instead? No one under 70 buys them anyway, so why keep them around?

I currently own a 73' lemans...

I always thought that buick would die first, go figure.

Yeah, Pontiac is the most energetic GM line going outside of the 'Vette. Corvette is really its own line. The new Camaro has promise but limited market volume opportunity. I hope some of the Pontiac Excitement makes its way into whatever remains in the GM portfolio post bankruptcy.

Not that everything Pontiac made was edgy. The Pontiac Aztek thing was the single most hideous looking motorized vehicle on the planet. When I pine for the GTOs and Catalinas and Bonnevilles and Grand Prixs, and of course the wonderful Firebirds, I will pull up a picture of an Aztek on my computer, especially a rear quarter view, and I will no longer feel bad about the demise of an automotive legend. Looking at the Aztek... "yeah, Pontiac deserved to die." ;)

Buick took over as the standard bearer for "Official Old Person Car" when Oldsmobile was canned and all vestiges of excitement were excised from the Buick line (remember the 5 sec 0-60 Grand Nationals?). Buick, along with the Ford Crown Vic, remain as affordable islands of mind numbing dullness with cavernous trunks needed to carry all the life support and golfing equipment that serves the needs of the elder generation and the old at heart.

I thought Pontiac had a winner when they were bringing back the GTO. That is, until I saw the car. It looked more like they were bringing back the Lumina with hood scoops. Already having the radical redesign of the Mustang as an example, they just didn't get the message. AMERICANS WANT AMERICAN CARS! Now, for some reason, Pontiac's been chasing BMW every since they came out with their redesigned Grand Am in the eighties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1V4eecK5dA&feature=PlayList&p=51E2BD8B6A36CB33&index=8
They sold well then, but do you see any of them on the road today? What I see still in use today from the eighties are the Buick Regal, Olds Cutlass, Chevy Monte Carlo, and Pontiac Grand Prix. These cars are comfortable to drive and all have one thing in common, rear wheel drive. I heard it said then, and it's still true today. "If I wanted a car built like a Japanese or German car, I would just buy a Japanese or German car." Well, guess what, everyones just buying Japanese and German cars. I think this all really started for GM when they went front wheel drive with their mid sized cars in the late eighties, and ended when they got rid of the Chevy Impala after 96. Chevy hasn't had a decent police package to offer since. Dodge has come around, although too late, introducing RWD cars that have been selling well. Ford has retained at least 2 RWD platforms in its line up, and guess what, will not be accepting any bailout money to get through this hard time. They say they won't need it. Everyone knows front wheel drive cars are disposable. Crumple zones are a morbid joke at 70MPH. GM has designed itself out of business.

Why don't they close Saab instead of Pontiac?

Rich.....don't get me started about American cars.....could turn into Zilla.

Yeah, Pontiac is the most energetic GM line going outside of the 'Vette. Corvette is really its own line. The new Camaro has promise but limited market volume opportunity. I hope some of the Pontiac Excitement makes its way into whatever remains in the GM portfolio post bankruptcy.

Not that everything Pontiac made was edgy. The Pontiac Aztek thing was the single most hideous looking motorized vehicle on the planet. When I pine for the GTOs and Catalinas and Bonnevilles and Grand Prixs, and of course the wonderful Firebirds, I will pull up a picture of an Aztek on my computer, especially a rear quarter view, and I will no longer feel bad about the demise of an automotive legend. Looking at the Aztek... "yeah, Pontiac deserved to die." ;)

Buick took over as the standard bearer for "Official Old Person Car" when Oldsmobile was canned and all vestiges of excitement were excised from the Buick line (remember the 5 sec 0-60 Grand Nationals?). Buick, along with the Ford Crown Vic, remain as affordable islands of mind numbing dullness with cavernous trunks needed to carry all the life support and golfing equipment that serves the needs of the elder generation and the old at heart.


Haha, you are so right. I remember when GM still thought there was a "progression" in their lineup that would capture their buyers from first car to grave - Chevy as a first purchase, Pontiac for the young trendy family, Oldsmobile for the establishment, Buick for the professional who didn't want to look too flashy, and Cadillac for the top of the heap. They got that stuff all confused over the years - I think they badge engineered the Chevy Uplander into 5 different models, none of them very good.

Lots of companies sell off divisions when they get too big or are too strung out. GM kept starting and acquiring new ones instead (the Hummer fad, oh my), then tried to use all the same stuff as much as they could in every brand to keep the price down. I have not been a GM fan for this reason, but it is a terrible shame to see stuff die and shut down when it really didn't have to. GM now looks like British Leyland of the 80's in a way, government intervention included, and the outcome will be the same. If the lost badges come back they will be owned by someone from China or India. :(

I currently own a 73' lemans...

Small world. I had a '73 GrandAM. It had a Red/White paint job and a black top. It had it's strong days, but it was a bastard to work on. My wife loved it and drove it for a few years after we were married. The second time she put her foot through the rusted out floor, she cleaned it out, washed and waxed it and was going to advertise it for sale. The next day a couple of guys show up at the door and ask if I'd like to sell the GrandAM...it didn't even have a for sale sign in the window yet :) Easiest car I ever sold and I figured we'd have a hellva time unloading it.

There was a white LeMans based CanAM around the Toledo area about the same time frame. It had the shaker scoop and maybe the 455 SD engine.

http://jalopnik.com/366699/2010-pontiac-g8-sport-truck-the-el-camino-is-back

And I forgot to add that Pontiac had plans for bringing back the El Camino in the form of the G8 S/T which was basically the GTO/G8 with a bed. The Elky has always had a strong following, and while I dont care for GM one bit, Id have definitely given it a look. V-8 engine, rwd, available with a manual trans, muscle car style and performance, sports car handling, mileage in the mid 20s and a bed to carry junk. This had 'win' written all over it.

They sell like hotcakes in Austrailia which is where this car was sourced just like the G8 and the GTO. Speaking of that GTO, the only place they went wrong was that it was 10 years too late. It wouldve slated right in with the camaros and mustangs of the mid 90's. But typical of GM, they play it all conservative like and end up blowing it.

I have been reading the great posts on this thread and started to ask myself a question. Is this really O/T? Yeah, I know it's in the Slot Car segment of Hobby Talk. However don't most if not all of us have about as much passion for 1:1 cars as we do for our hobby? Is the love of a type of car or type of racing the spark that ignited our passion for slot car racing/collecting? If the answer to these questions is YES, this thread is very much ON TOPIC.

I'm jaust saying...

Funny how things change, and looking back over the years and all the cars I've owned Pontiac was my favorite. 23 years ago I was obsessed with them. My flavors were the 65 to 72 model years.. Pretty much not a dog in the fleet. Oil embargos, gas shortages, increasing parts costs, a divorce, and a bad back killed it for me. :cry:I haven't had a "cool" car pretty much since then. At the height of my heyday, I had: 66 lemans conv, 69 firebird conv, 82 trans am turbo, and a 56 buick coupe...Plus a daily driver dodge pick up. Now a days I'm lucky to keep my 98 blazer on the road... but it sure looks better than my 85 lebaron woody wagon!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: Come to think of it, :rolleyes: anything looks better than an 85 lebaron woody wagon...

I have noticed I have transferred my car owning obsession down to a smaller scale and a much higher volume.. I'll never drive them all, but just knowing I have them gives me the warm fuzzies all over!! :tongue: :wave:

I don't know about Buick being an old mans car,ever drive one of the Supercharged Regal versions,my wife's supercharged Regal is a great little 4 door sleeper,they're the same horsepower and torque as the old Grand Nationals from the 80's,

I like what NTX said. Really bad business to put a Buick ,Chevy and a Pontiac on the same platform..Bean counters love it. Now the G.M. designers seem to be stuck on making turtle looking bodies using the "arc" command on their cad program. Look at all the folks that buy the shiny tail light assemblies to make their car look different from the next easter egg looking vehicle. Don't see much of that with the new Mustang. I remember that I couldn't wait for the new cars to hit the showrooms, because they would be different looking and it was exciting. Now who cares, they make the plastic lights with more do dads on them, bigger or smaller, who cares, raise the price a couple of thousand and wonder why we don't flock in to buy them. With all the new technology that is available to make really stunning automobiles, they are not doing the job. If you are going to make the same car or truck with little changes, the price needs to reflect that. If you want more money, you had better offer me something that looks like you busted your a$$ to make it cool. I haven't bought a cheap grey toyota.... yet. I'll shut up now.TomH Buick, Dodge Dakota, Freightliner XL

The technology is there to make good cars that people want and theyre affordable. A mustang GT is slightly cheaper than a well equipped camry. Which one would YOU be proud to park in your driveway? A mustang is a REAL car with real style, real performance, and is made to last. A camry is nothing but a transportation device. Is an appliance, much like 90% of whats being made today.

We as consumers are to blame for not demanding more for our hard earned dollars than basic transportation.

A mustang GT is slightly cheaper than a well equipped camry. Which one would YOU be proud to park in your driveway?

Leaved Parked in the Driveway - Mustang
Drive on a Daily Basis - Camry

Recently spent a week driving a Mustang GT rental in Texas. I felt like I was driving a bathtub. Running over tar strips, or worse, speed bumps in a parking lot had me checking the kidney donor list ... just in case. Grunt factor is high, refinement factor is low. If American roads were as smooth as glass, had no corners, and you didn't have to see the other cars on the road, then maybe the 'Stang would have made a better impression. The rental car company thought they were "upgrading" me to the Mustang because they ran out of Mazda 6s, but ended up giving me a partial refund because the rental experience was so negative.

There's a lot of reasons Toyota is selling a bazillion of the Made in USA Camrys. They are nice all around cars.

I like what NTX said. Really bad business to put a Buick ,Chevy and a Pontiac on the same platform..Bean counters love it. Now the G.M. designers seem to be stuck on making turtle looking bodies using the "arc" command on their cad program. Look at all the folks that buy the shiny tail light assemblies to make their car look different from the next easter egg looking vehicle. Don't see much of that with the new Mustang. I remember that I couldn't wait for the new cars to hit the showrooms, because they would be different looking and it was exciting. Now who cares, they make the plastic lights with more do dads on them, bigger or smaller, who cares, raise the price a couple of thousand and wonder why we don't flock in to buy them. With all the new technology that is available to make really stunning automobiles, they are not doing the job. If you are going to make the same car or truck with little changes, the price needs to reflect that. If you want more money, you had better offer me something that looks like you busted your a$$ to make it cool. I haven't bought a cheap grey toyota.... yet. I'll shut up now.TomH Buick, Dodge Dakota, Freightliner XL

Too funny Tom!

The death of the complimentary curve! Been saying it for years. Thankfully computers havent been allowed to design our women or it would signal the death of our species like it has the US auto industry.

Modern designs have left me cold for some time... fat arsed, high waisted, angular wamahockeys. Most of it looks like something my grandson stacked together from his deluxe wooden blockset.

Funny that curves cost extra no matter what yer playin' with. Hard to make, hard to fix, expensive to replace.

I've had a Toyota Crampry as a rental, cramped, crap mileage, slow, and had me wishing for an upgrade to a Mustang GT. I'm sure an upgraded Camry may be nice, but the rental ones are crap.
As for Pontiac, I hope they make the G-8 an Impala SS, and the Soltice a Chevy as well. I thought it would have been better to ditch Buick and GMC as everthing is just repeated elsewhere in the GM line up.
For GM, Ford and Chrysler to sucseed they have to stop bashing each other and concentrate on beating up on the import brands. Push the fact that Ford has risen in quality, Gm's onstar, fuel efficancy, warranty, and build quality. And instead of closing plants here they should be bringing more jobs home. Just my thoughts on that.

When my Jeep was in the shop (getting the airbags replaced and straightening a bent tie rod after a 45mph slam into a concrete barrier!) I was stuck with a chevy impala. What a POS. Ok, so Im a little biased: Going into it, I hate 4-door sedans especially grey ones. But Id expect a car like this to average at least 28 mpg combined, and could barely break 24 even on the highway. 0-60 couldve been timed with a sundial. Truly a car for the dead at heart. Whats funny is that my parents came out and they rented a newer Charger. Again, not something Id want to roll in based on the bodystyle but it had the base 2.7 V-6 with WAY more power than whatever was in the Impala and was averaging 29 mpg combined. The charger is rwd, and probably heavier than that fwd impala. It was bigger inside, thats for sure. Neither my dad nor myself can be considered economy minded while behind the wheel, so it really fleeces out what these cars are.

And speaking of camrys, my sisters ex bf had one of these piles of crappola. It was a newer one, '05 or so but it was one of the most unimpressive cars I think Ive ever had the misfortune to ride in. I think the squirrel in the running wheel under the hood was suffering a massive stroke because this thing was S-----L-----O-----W. And if you drive one, hope nothing bigger than a parakeet ever hits you because pabst cans feel more substantial. It howled like riding in a culvert pipe going down the road. Toyota's moving you forward, huh? I think Ill stay right here with my noisy, poor mpg 4x4s and v-8 rwd muscle coupes thank you very much.

Personally, Id give up all levels of comfort to have a cool car that I like driving. Ive been rattling my bones in Jeep CJs and Wranglers ever since Ive been driving, so Im not concerned about how something rides. Ive test driven mustangs twice and absolutely LOVED them. Fun to drive, handled great, and my 6'1", 250 pound carcas had plenty of room to stretch out. All in a car that just says 'badass' all over it. Just couldnt bear the idea of having to give up my jeep and only have a car was all...

I miss the Hudson Hornet. :(

Hi All:

Lexus and Buick are tied in the latest customer quality in the JD Powers survey's.

In the last 18 going on 19 years I have owned two cars. First, was the Mazda Navajo, a Ford Explorer Sport, and a 1999 Ford Explorer, which I still have. The Navajo, which I sold to a friend at 168,000 miles was still running strong when he sold it at 268,000 miles. The current Explorer has 193,000 miles. Both car were bought brand new. In Colorado you need, if you want to get around in the snow, a 4 WD car.

As with any car, it is how you treat them. Every 3,000 miles oil change, 5,000 new air filter, rotate the tires. At 20,000 miles change the trany fluid and at 40,000 new trany filter. I would buy a new Ford anyday of the week. I try to help out our country buy purchasing only American ( big three ) cars, not to say I would never buy a non-American car, I just have had great experiances with Ford.

You might say that the Navajo is a Japananese car, however, it was built in a Ford plant.

I was talking to my Father this last christmas about getting a Mitz Evo 10. As he pointed out, Mitz made the Zero's that attacked Pearl Harbor. Being a Vet, he had a strong USA attitude. I can respect that. He later cmae up to me and said, if you want to buy a Japanesse car, to please wait until he is gone. What can you say to that.

The only major problem I have had with my Ford was the 90's Firestone tire mess.

Thanks

Voxxer

Why don't they close Saab instead of Pontiac?

Another great move GM. I've seen student councils run better.

Of all the bonehead moves! I say we all get together and buy Pontiac.
I'm willing to bet there's more administrative talent in our slot car forum than all of GM.
The production plan would be easy, bring back a REAL GTO, Firebird, and Bonneville.
I bet we could even make an electric Fiero work.
:cool:

Lexus and Buick are tied in the latest customer quality in the JD Powers survey's.

That's because older folks are most likely to take time to answer a survey.

The only major problem I have had with my Ford was the 90's Firestone tire mess.

I would say that's Firestone's fault, but I had a good friend working at a Ford dealership at the time. They got a Technical Service Bulletin from Ford asking them to lower the pressure in the tires to try to help the tire problem. My friend asked,"Doesn't low tire pressure increase heat? Won't that cause the tire to blow out sooner?". He was told that's what Ford said, and that's it.

Rich

I seem to remember a ways back there was serious problems with the fiero. Inadaquate oil capacity, tied to poor user maintainance led to a slew of blown engines leading to fires. As I recall the data said if all vehicles on the road had the same number of blazing failure incidences as the fiero, you'd see an average of 3 car fires a day... Sadly, they fixed the issue on the last year of production with the best fiero ever, and ended production later that year. You want to make a "fireo" electric, Rich, put a 1:1 thunder plus under it!! :lol:

I've had a Toyota Crampry as a rental, cramped, crap mileage, slow, and had me wishing for an upgrade to a Mustang GT.

Man, what a wasted opportunity! We could have swapped cars.