thought i would start this thread to bring some info for the sprint rookies to help us along and get some info from the veterans:thumbsup:

LOL, Baker said that stuff is top secret. LOL

LOL, Baker said that stuff is top secret. LOL

Baker is correct. Learn the way I did. Look at Randys car when he was not looking. Dang Will. You want everybody to know. I won't have a chance then.
First put the round black thingies on the four corners. Fill it up with motion lotion, yank the rippin cord and pray. Oh somewhere along the line you should turn on that translator device.

My crew chief said you know enough jeff

My crew chief said you know enough jeff

And you want all the good stuff posted here for him to read. Will?

do not forget to check the muffler bearings...... lol

thats chrome muffler bearing, LOL,

Deleted

I started this thread for real info for the ones that wanted it guess I will close it

If Randy Baker is willing, he has a good baseline set-up for sprinters.

It is not for everyone, but it is a good starting point from which to tune.

JB
:thumbsup:

on the cage is very fast right bob elliott:thumbsup:

you guy's, will all have to face the inevitable, a good rookie will read through all the bs and the baseline setup,that may be half true. then do his own setup which works for him.....and, kick all our azz's!

something to think about.........? fellow sprinter's............:)




don't close it will
will, whats your low down on sprint setup? any advice?....or........... :thumbsup:






on side note on the rookie or rookies, i'm not talk'n about you crist............lol! lol! ya can't get through the bs man!!!! lol! :wave:

i only have 3 races on my sprint
and i want a good set-up too.....

i only have 3 races on my sprint
and i want a good set-up too.....

Touch base with Randy Baker. He will get you started in the right direction.

Yep, I know how ya feel. The QSAC forum has become the most useless part of HT. Folks are better off looking to the websites for useful information and quit wasting their time looking for it here.

You know its bad when QSAC has to put a disclaimer on its site about info posted on HT.
I started this thread for real info for the ones that wanted it guess I will close it

you guy's, will all have to face the inevitable, a good rookie will read through all the bs and the baseline setup,that may be half true. then do his own setup which works for him.....and, kick all our azz's!

something to think about.........? fellow sprinter's............:)




don't close it will
will, whats your low down on sprint setup? any advice?....or........... :thumbsup:






on side note on the rookie or rookies, i'm not talk'n about you crist............lol! lol! ya can't get through the bs man!!!! lol! :wave:I have did what you said in 07 most didn't see it coming but since sprint is on the up swing from what I have read just thought it would be great to have a deadicated thread for it and no I have no info at this time

Will,

As good as you are, I didn't think you needed any help?LOL:thumbsup:

Not too far off from a cars perspective. Square up front axle with chassis, Cut camber down to 1-1/2 and use tire wear to adjust, Make sure rear axle moves up and down with out shocks and don't bind. square right side to start, left rear in a little then fine tune to your driving style.

I know this is not much to go on.

JOEY

Will,

As good as you are, I didn't think you needed any help?LOL:thumbsup:

Not too far off from a cars perspective. Square up front axle with chassis, Cut camber down to 1-1/2 and use tire wear to adjust, Make sure rear axle moves up and down with out shocks and don't bind. square right side to start, left rear in a little then fine tune to your driving style.

I know this is not much to go on.

JOEY

Keeping everything clean and free on the chassis is paramount; period.

After that...

And this is where the possible "battle" begins...

I am absolutely certain that what Joey documented works well for him.

However,
-Some guys like to square the front end.
-Some guys like to square the rear end.

-Some guys tune off of the LF.
-Some guys tune off of the LR.

If driver "A" starts listening to driver "DMP", "DMP" may direct him down a given path. If "DMP" is not available, driver "A" may then seek out driver "JB". Now, driver "JB" may have a completely different approach than driver "DMP"; how much confusion do think is possible at this point?

There is a point which is "the set-up" that each of us arrive at from a different starting point, and probably from different angles.

It is very difficult to give set-up information over the internet. Even the best set-up is not just passed along to the next guy; bolted in the car, and absolutely perfect. No two of us drive the same. Now, it may work, but is it at it's best for that given driver? You'd have to talk with the driver and look at lap times.

To Tim Mc's and Willy's point, yeah, you are getting some joking responses. You are also getting some valid ones as well.

More than just providing a set-up for someone, I think it would be in the interest of the quarter scale racing community to create a "black book" similar to the one that Danny B created for 1/10th scale pan cars. I know the QSAC newsletter had something along the lines of "ASK THE PROS".

Danny B's Black Book talks about how to build a chassis properly. What set-up changes do, etc, etc. I know there is something on the web from one of the West Coast guys that walks through things to look for and what changes effect on the chassis.

In my opinion, all the joking aside, understanding changes to the chassis should be the point of focus in discussion; not just set-up tips.

Similar analogy; give a man a fish, you've fed him for a day; teach a man to fish, you've provided him a means for a meal for the remainder of his life.

JB
:thumbsup:

I can joke with the best of them but one good information post can get lost in twenty of joking. I guess one must list his/her request of useful info as a "serious" request?

joe39

If driver "A" starts listening to driver "DMP", "DMP" may direct him down a given path. If "DMP" is not available, driver "A" may then seek out driver "JB". Now, driver "JB" may have a completely different approach than driver "DMP"; how much confusion do think is possible at this point?

There is a point which is "the set-up" that each of us arrive at from a different starting point, and probably from different angles.

It is very difficult to give set-up information over the internet. Even the best set-up is not just passed along to the next guy; bolted in the car, and absolutely perfect. No two of us drive the same. Now, it may work, but is it at it's best for that given driver? You'd have to talk with the driver and look at lap times.




well said, joe39



on the same page with ya will...:thumbsup:

I can joke with the best of them but one good information post can get lost in twenty of joking. I guess one must list his/her request of useful info as a "serious" request?

I would imagine conversations at the track go this way as well. Someone happens to ask a question, a discussion ensues. Someone walks by, throws in a comment or two; maybe it was sarcastic, maybe it was serious; the conversation then drifts away from the original topic...

I do understand your point, Tim. And actually, yes, I think there needs to be some delineation between "fun" threads and "serious" threads.

Maybe it's time for a thread called "Straight Shooting" where the emphasis is on educating and not joking? There could be sub-topics such as "engine tuning", "tire maintenance", "set-up tools", etc, etc.

Joe

Amen Joe! I agree on the straight shooting threads and also on the setup black book.

Now back to Will's thread..... :)
I do understand your point, Tim. And actually, yes, I think there needs to be some delineation between "fun" threads and "serious" threads.

Maybe it's time for a thread called "Straight Shooting" where the emphasis is on educating and not joking? There could be sub-topics such as "engine tuning", "tire maintenance", "set-up tools", etc, etc.

Joe

Guys I kmnow everyone likes a diffrent feel in a car the purpose of this thread was to throw out ideas what has worked for them and general info to help the class grow because sprints are the next big class in 1/4 scale

correct me if i'm wrong, there is afew different manufacture's that make chassis's and then, there is the home shop built sprinter's. if your going to get any advise on a baseline setup, you best talk to a racer that may have the close or same chassis design.

rollout, stagger,camber,toe,tires, tire size's, gearing and so, on. i'm working on a setup sheet for my sprint to help me record what works at a certain tracks. have done it in the past, has worked for me. just about done with setup sheet blanks. i'll post it. i have other setup sheets for the cars as well.

Oh yeah everyone post pics of your sprints on here there are allways good ideas with mounting,fabbing,and creative thing with 1/4 scale on here your idea could help someone else

Will,

As good as you are, I didn't think you needed any help?LOL:thumbsup:

Not too far off from a cars perspective. Square up front axle with chassis, Cut camber down to 1-1/2 and use tire wear to adjust, Make sure rear axle moves up and down with out shocks and don't bind. square right side to start, left rear in a little then fine tune to your driving style.

I know this is not much to go on.

JOEY

good info joey!

i use a setup plate surface, with wheel disks the size of tires i'm going to use. tape measure and a lazer level to get an idea were the car is setup wise then recorded it on setup sheet.

sent ya a pm! joey

Ok. I was joking around because I didn't have the time to think about the setup and I got carried away. Formula 1 race getting ready to start. I will dig out my notes and post later on.

Joe39. Had put it well.

Understanding what ever you move, what effect it will have on the car.And why.
Example frt end 4 Links.There is alot of stuff in just these bars alone.

I recommend finding a midjet or Sprint website and learn from there 1st.Lots of info out there.
1st and most, right down everything. so you know what works and what don't. for me I cannot remember.
Call someone who has been in it awile for further help.

There does need to be some seriousness to a help topic. Thanks Paul

Another good resource is the following book:

Sprint Car Chassis Technology by Steve Smith and Jimmy Sills available through Steve Smith Autosports or Amazon.com

While there is quite a bit of reference to dirt sprint cars, there is more than ample material for asphalt sprint cars. Given Randy Baker's baseline set-up, this book, and just some common sense after reading the book, a guy can get his sprinter working really well.

I completely forgot about mentioning the book until this morning.

Joe

being new to 1/4 scale one thing I've noticed is it is mostly all geared for pavement....we are running our sprinters on dirt and so it would be nice to know if the info given is general....pavement....dirt.....all info is needed and wanted just kinda need to know were it is coming from

I'm sure Randy's baseline set up is probably best but I will give mine.
I start out by squaring up the rear end to the chassis. I then set the toe out at 1/8 inch.
Ride height is 1/2 inch on left side and 3/4 inch on the right side.
Left rear spring is an orange 12 lb. from WCM with 10 wt. shock oil.
Right rear spring is a black 25 lb. WCM with 20 wt. shock oil.
Left front spring is a green 20 lb. WCM with 15 wt. shock oil.
Right front spring is a blue 16 lb. WCM with 15 wt. shock oil.
I set the radius rods where they are parallel to each other.
Right track arm just a bit below level.
Left track arm just a bit up from level
Front and rear panhard bars are set to be where they will be level with the axle when suspension is working.
Wing angle and position in the saddle is a matter of trial and error. Start slow and work with different positions. If the car is pushing less wing angle or move it forward in the saddle. If loose move toward rear and or increase wing angle.
Tire stagger and compounds are totally relevent to the track. I have found that for the front tires a BRP 96 works well on the right front with an L20 on the left front. I do not run stagger on the front wheels. For the rear, I make all my right rear tires at 18-1/2 inches and control stagger with the left tire. I run mostly 410 cat or 405 on medium host. Left side L20s work well on most track with L30s on real hot days and L10's on cooler days or night runs.
Start with about 1 to 1-1/2 degrees of camber and check with a line drawn across the tires and a few laps at a moderately fast speed. Adjust according to wear indicated by the wline on the tire. When tire wears even you are there. Caster start at 1-1/2 degrees and adjust as needed.
This is only a starting point and each driver will have to adjust according to his or her driving style. Remember I am not the fastest guy on the track. If anyone has a way to make me faster by improving on my setup I would welcome the information.:wave:

I feel putting this information on here is a great idea and I am very pleased to here that sprint cars are making a come back.We all come to race and we cant pick and choose who we want to race with so I feel it is important to not so much give set up secrets but to give out basic set up ideas so our new fellow sprint drivers can make it around the track .
Lets try to put up possible problems and then talk about solutions to try to solve them,that way our new sprint car racers can have something to look back to correct their problem they are having and we can all have a good race togeather
I have talked with some good sprint car racers thank you randy baker,scott george and yes you to joe brooks and they are all more than happy to set you up to get you around the track and then it is up to the person to tweak there car so it feels right to them
To the gentleman who asked about a dirtset up I am hereing 1 inch ground clearance, no more than 1/4 inch rear stagger and set the car up soft. most guys seem to be running a 4 inch wide on the r.r. Thank you Ive been waiting for a post like this
Bob KRUEGER

PRACTICE,ADJUST,PRACTICE,ADJUST,PRACTICE,ADJUST

I think is the best way to improve, everyone needs to remember there are no shortcuts to getting better. And there arent any secrets just things we havent learned yet. You must also remember that any info you read here does it transfer to the car you own,your track, your driving style, your type of shocks,your tire compounds and on and on. You must also remember if you dont understand the chassis and what every adjustment on it does or how it effects your car, you make one adjustment at a time then drive the car, dont throw 3 or 4 things at it at once and then drive it, you wont know which one made it better or worse. And take notes it will help you remember what works and what doesnt. And if you find a setup you really like and works for your style of driving,car and track. MEASURE EVERYTHING AND WRITE IT DOWN. so you will now have a baseline setup you can use and share with the others at your track if they need or ask for it, that is the best place to get this type of info. I think you really need to see these types of things to fix them or make them better.

Everyone has thier own idea or reason for what they think this forum is for or for why they use it, some are looking for info,some for ideas, some to stay in touch with people they know, for announcements,for having fun,or just news in general. Websters deffinition of forum: A public meeting place for OPEN discussion.

JUST MY 2 CENTS

I'm taking notes. Keep talking guys.

I'm taking notes. Keep talking guys.keep taking them jeff you gona need them:thumbsup:

I'm writing down what not to do willy. LOL

DONT WANT TO OPEN A CAN OF WORMS ON THE WING ISSUE,BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF A WICKER BILL ON THE MAIN BODY OF THE WING IS LEGAL AND IF IT IS, IS THERE A MAX HEIGHT RULE FOR IT. i HAVE FOUND THE WICKER TO BE A GREAT TOOL FOR PLANTING THE REAR END AND WANT TO BE SURE I AM LEGAL BEFORE I BUILD MY NEW WING

Bob
it IS ok to have a wicker as long as it is within tolerances of the wing length of 16 inches

it is nice though to have something to start from being totally new and not knowing on were to begin. a nice Generic starting point is good and then a guy could go from there.

Bob
it IS ok to have a wicker as long as it is within tolerances of the wing length of 16 inches

Here is an excerpt from the Winged Sprints on Asphalt, LLC:

"...if it doesn't’t say you CAN, DON’T. With the help and consideration of the participants this can be accomplished. Try to live within the spirit of the rules. The WSoA intends for all cars to be competitive with one another. If you do not see something specifically addressed, and do not seek clarification from WSoA officials, consider it to be illegal, because the WSoA likely will!."

While our QSAC rules do not say this or anything similar, I believe it is in the best interest of all QSAC classes to have a general rule that states something to the same effect. It puts the onus of the situation clearly on the participants shoulder to a. understand the rules (ignorance is NOT an excuse) and b. seek further understanding with the sanctioning body if understanding has not been met upon reading of the rules.

Now, to Bob's question; in my opinion, a wicker bill is out of the range of the intent of the rules of the class. There is nothing stating you can or cannot have a wicker bill.

However, I distinctly remember Jim Ryder being asked to remove a wicker bill from his Super Truck back in '97 at the Nationals. It was within the height rules, and there was no mention of wicker bills, however the powers that be at the time deemed it was beyond the scope of the interest of the rules and their content.

In addition, here is the WSOA, LLC rules regarding wings and body panels Two points of interest: a. there is NO mention of minimum wing height from chassis b. there is no mention of wicker bill

"WINGS AND BODY PANELS

1. Top wing is mandatory. Only standard sprint car wings allowed. No supermodified style wings.

2. 25 square feet maximum area. Maximum width is 61 inches. Minimum width is 54 inches.

2a. Top wing must be secured by at least one tether of cable or chain from the wing slider to the roll cage. Two tethers, one each side is recommended.

3. Maximum side board size is 30 X 72 inches.

4. No hydraulic wing sliders allowed. Wing cannot be adjustable from the cockpit of car. NO pneumatic air cylinders allowed.

5. Front or nose wings are allowed, but are not mandatory.

6. Maximum nose wing size is 6 square feet. Maximum width is 37 inches.

7. Front air dams or air boxes may be no wider than the frame and extend forward no farther than 23 inches from the leading edge of the front axle. Measurement will be from against the right side frame rail.(NO TOLERANCE!)

8. No aerodynamic surfaces or panels outside of main frame rails, except for top wing and nose wing per specs.

9. No more than 1 inch lip on rock panel behind driver.

10. Only two (2) vertical lips or rails may be on the hood surface and may be no higher than 1 inch. If full length top cover is not used, side panels can be no higher than the valve covers.

11. Driver compartment side panels may be no higher than 30" on the left or 40" on the right sides. Measurement taken from the top of the bottom frame rail at motor plate. No clear plastic or lexan panels allowed above panels around drivers compartment.

12. Fuel cell and/or tail tank must be centered with driveline.

12. All cars must be equipped with tail tank which must contain fuel cell.

14. All fuel cells must be equipped with an approved bladder meeting SFI Spec 28.2."



I only bring into focus the full scale rules as a true scale comparison. If those rules work for full scale, they should be more than adequate for our quarter scale.

Joe

In addition...

Per the WoO Sprint Rules from 2007:

1.1 Wings
1.1.1 Top Wing (See drawing 1.1.1)
a) Center Foil maximum size of 25 square feet with a maximum width of 60 inches.
Center Foil must be square or rectangular in shape with all 4 corners set at 90°
angles with a one (1) degree variance allowed.
b) Center Foil shall be fully sheathed in aluminum. Vent holes are strictly prohibited.
c) No wicker bills or Gurney lips permitted on Center Foil.

I only cut a portion of the rules because they are far more substantial than those of the WSOA, LLC.

I have a .pdf copy of these rules if anybody would like a copy.

Joe

Shoot me an email if you would like a copy: jbrooks39 [at] comcast.net

I'm sure Randy's baseline set up is probably best but I will give mine.
I start out by squaring up the rear end to the chassis. I then set the toe out at 1/8 inch.
Ride height is 1/2 inch on left side and 3/4 inch on the right side.
Left rear spring is an orange 12 lb. from WCM with 10 wt. shock oil.
Right rear spring is a black 25 lb. WCM with 20 wt. shock oil.
Left front spring is a green 20 lb. WCM with 15 wt. shock oil.
Right front spring is a blue 16 lb. WCM with 15 wt. shock oil.
I set the radius rods where they are parallel to each other.
Right track arm just a bit below level.
Left track arm just a bit up from level
Front and rear panhard bars are set to be where they will be level with the axle when suspension is working.
Wing angle and position in the saddle is a matter of trial and error. Start slow and work with different positions. If the car is pushing less wing angle or move it forward in the saddle. If loose move toward rear and or increase wing angle.
Tire stagger and compounds are totally relevent to the track. I have found that for the front tires a BRP 96 works well on the right front with an L20 on the left front. I do not run stagger on the front wheels. For the rear, I make all my right rear tires at 18-1/2 inches and control stagger with the left tire. I run mostly 410 cat or 405 on medium host. Left side L20s work well on most track with L30s on real hot days and L10's on cooler days or night runs.
Start with about 1 to 1-1/2 degrees of camber and check with a line drawn across the tires and a few laps at a moderately fast speed. Adjust according to wear indicated by the wline on the tire. When tire wears even you are there. Caster start at 1-1/2 degrees and adjust as needed.
This is only a starting point and each driver will have to adjust according to his or her driving style. Remember I am not the fastest guy on the track. If anyone has a way to make me faster by improving on my setup I would welcome the information.:wave:



fred,
thanks for the info on base line set-up. definitly helped the new sprint driver!! were's randy b.? lol!

Baker, I need to talk to you!!!:pMy crew chief said you know enough jeff

see him on QSAC forum earlier, jeff

Baker, I need to talk to you!!!:p

What did I do now ?

Will said you was his crew chief. I just wanted in on some of the good stuff. You know the go fast stuff. LOL:thumbsup:What did I do now ?

Will said you was his crew chief. I just wanted in on some of the good stuff. You know the go fast stuff. LOL:thumbsup:

LOL . I haven't told him anymore than I've told you or anybody else . Joe Brookes and Fred have stated I have a base line setup that will get a person started in the right direction , Then it comes down to testing and adjusting like Mike , Joe and Fred have said . I will say that once I get my car to handle the way I want it to there's only a couple of adjustments I make from track to track and that's gearing and rear stagger . Of course depending on the weather I will change the rear tire compounds for traction purposes . But for the most part those are the two things I play with , gearing and stagger . I'm willing to help anybody that wants it , just call or e-mail me and anybody can get that imformation off the QSAC web site .:wave:

Randy.... We are going to miss you down here in a couple weeks. I sure wish you could make it!

Will....DC said that he had your setup waiting for you in the form of....something like a 2x10 white.....back straight somethin or another.....I dunno?

As far a setup goes I totally agree with Mike. I think Fred has a great base setup. All drivers have different styles and what they want out of their setup.
What works for some may not work for others but this is a great place to try different things as well. There are so many different variables to ones car...weight...shocks...springs...wb....compounds. ..bar angles...etc. Start with the base setup...be consistant...hit your marks. Make small changes and see what the outcome is and keep notes. When I get a new car or my base setup established, I always mark and measure...that way I know where My changes went and how to get back. A Sharpie is a Sprint Drivers best friend!

You know your car manufacture has a base line setup they use when they build and ship the cars out. Try emailing or calling them for that for a baseline setup. Just a thought.

Another good resource is the following book:

Sprint Car Chassis Technology by Steve Smith and Jimmy Sills available through Steve Smith Autosports or Amazon.com
Joe
Just a thought from the other side of the world, on this subject. I agree with Joe39. I've raced sprints on dirt here in Sydney Australia for 11 years and have referred to the the book mention above, for all of those years. It's a terrific starting point and I've found the the set-up and handling sections, relate perfectly to 1/4 scale sprintcars.