I found a picture of what I think PePe is talking about. However, I could find a way to copy and paste the link. So here is how I got there. Click on Rc-oval.com then on the bottom of the page click back issues link, then click on July issue and finally click on chassis building part III and scroll down from there. Good luck

Now could someone help me, How you all the fast guys determine the proper roll out or starting point for a new track? I am not asking for the calculations( didnt mean to be nasty just came out that away)just as a rule of thumb do you guys input the track into the dyno program and go from there or what do you do?

Thanks
Bryon

http://www.rc-oval.com/issues/July-02/My-front-end_1.jpg
do you mean like that.

after you have raced many years and many tracks you can just look at the track and know what roll out to run. i know thats not whhat you wanted to hear but thats how i do it.

I run a 2.43 rollout at Trackside in Milwaukee with a GM-3.

Don't know if that helps at all

Sure, Not only do I need to improve my racing skills but also looks like I need to improve my computer skills. LOL

Good Job
Mike no that's not what I wanted to hear, even though it works for you for some of us(ME) we need a little more info.

Thanks again
Bryon

I usually figure roll-out by finding out the driveline of the new track and make my decision by comparing that to a tracks I have raced on where I know the drive line.

Bryon,I usually put the info in the Fantom and whatever it recomends I go up two teeth,this usually gets me close.
It doesnt seem to work for the ARCOR 19t motors though,they like alot of gear.

Mike --

I noticed in the pics that you run your tie rods in the upper most holes on the servo saver. I'm assuming that's to run them as horizontal as possible to remove any bump steer ??


Thanks.

TeamGoodwrench there are only one set of holes in the servo saver. i adjust bump steer by raising/ lowering the servo or the ball studs on the steering arm.

mike, i had the chance to run the 700 on ozite this weekend (instead of the double loop stuff we use at our club racing) and the car got better with every pack that i ran through it, but is still off the pace of the guys that are running the new ADX cars..... SRM came over and said that the BSR tires have to go, and jaco's have to go on. now, i really don't care (other than i have quite an inventory of BSR's)but, are they holding me back??????? why?

thanks,
tom

I ran on some ozite carpet this past weekend at the NORRCA Carpet Nats in Georgia. I am not a carpet racer, but I was told by SEVERAL drivers that the tire of choice was JACO's. To put it simple....they told me that they were FASTER? If some of the sponsored guys had to purchase tires they would run JACO's as well.....I heard this time and time again also.

pancartom i think each tire has it's place and use. but the bsr's don't seem to have certain compounds that others do, trc, jaco, etc. i ran for bsr for awhile, won a nat's with them and also finished second in another class. so they do run but most people me included find it much easier and more consistant to run trc's or jaco's. as far as the diff between them it's really up to the break down of the compounds and hardness of the compounds. i'm not sure i could pick a clear cut winner but a sponsorship could sway my answer.:lol: but i will say that bsr's to me are the hardest to be fast on.imo:wave:

thanks for the reply, mike..... one more thing, do you think there is any advantage to splitting up the 4 cell pack putting 2 cells all the way back and out, and moving 2 cells forward and in a bit?

pancartom moving weight around in the car has a huge impact on how the car handles. it really doesn't matter if it's the batteries, reciever/reciever pack, speedo, transponder, or even the way you mount your servo, they all have an effect. the battery is the heaviest thing in the car moving, so it will have the most effect. but don't over look the placement of the speedo or reciever on someone elses car who is runnning well.

MIKEY , I as well as many other wish you were running the best toires {JACO} and PCTOM ..I was not kidding when I told you to change tires .The 0700 car is an awesome design and I am sure changeing tires willl help .... If you need any help this wekeend I will do your car .Your BUddy liked the help he got last weekend ... Hopefully My car will be back home this week and I can play with you guys ... Its 6 turns and 3300 upon ya ... SRM:roll: :devil: :roll:

thanks steve.... i picked up all kinds of new jaco's today. see ya sunday!

....from your local JACO dealer i suspect!...lol...GR:thumbsup:

you bet, GR! your boss better cough up the whites or we're going to have some words!

hey skull miller- can't you come kleen with a set of jaco whites for your old buddy pancartom.................come on racket boy, pretty please

PCT call me tomm before 3pm...see ya GR

mike, where are you running your batteries and tray in the car for 4 cell mod, flat carpet?

thanks,
tom

MR. PEACOCKLESS , I would be happy to give tom some used JACOS to race with !!!!!!!If he was ruinning them all the TIME!!!!!! GUYS who run from one tire to another I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ..... Jaco tires are winning every major race these days and things are only going to get better.... MR PEACOCKLESS I will be there to SAVAAGE you from the MAIN last week.My poooor little car its very mad at YOU .... See yA

SRM
ADX UPON YA

PS George I have called you 200 times and no call back .... It is very important for you to call me cell607-227-6104.. Its on NOW:mad:

While we're on the subject of Jacos....

On my HD 700, on a flat carpet track, I'm running 3 blacks and a white LR. I've heard that Greys are actually faster than Whites and have the same "bite". Would it be better to run grey lefts (front and rear) and black lefts ??

Thanks!

oops.. I mean black RIGHTS.

i haven't run to and from anything. i stopped using jaco's years ago when they were seperating on the rims. that's it. i went to bsr because they seemed to work ok for me at the time. now, it seems like it might be time for a change again.

Whips will be laid and at least one sign will be posted as Hyperdrive will roll thru CRC Sunday and take down the A main. And the beautiful thing will be that it will ride into the sunset on BSR's! The 0700 is the ADX killer and 1 by 1 all big races will fall to the machine they call Hyperdrive! :dude:

we will see Brutus.:devil:

great, same car, same tires...... i must be getting old

ouch!! shoots fired:roll:

It's good to see Jimmy with a lil fire behind him. See, that car was a good choice!!!...Just dont tick that inside wall again...G_Rod

Guys:

How does the car change if you go from 40 wt oil in the side shocks to 25 or 30 wt oil ??

I know that the shocks will react faster, but what do you feel as far as the car drives ?? Is it looser in the corner, tighter ??? How does it affect the car going into/out of the corner ???

Thanks!!

Personally, I have found that the car will steer a little more aggressively with a lighter oil. It won't be huge but you should notice the difference.

Been running my hyperdrive at BMS in Tn , 2 weeks ago I ran a track record in 19 T arcor and tonight I did it again, this car just keeps getting better, Gloating you say, you bet I am! I have been running like crap until I took the chance with this 700 car. THIS THING ROCKS AT BMS!!

Team Goodwrench,

I would have to agree with Jimmy I recently switched from 40 to 30 on my side shocks and it did in fact make the car more aggressive.I've currently running 30wt on the sides with red springs and 90wt on the center with standard assoc green spring.As I understand lighter oil with heaver springs free's that end of the car up.

Yes - I went from silver side springs with 40 wt oil to blue side springs with 30 wt and it seemed a bit better. I've got 50 wt in the center with a silver spring.

The car is great getting into the corner, but still a bit sluggish in the middle -- almost like it's working against itself.

I was running (Jacos) a grey LF, black RF, white LR, and a black RR.

How much weight are you guys running on the LR for flat carpet tracks ?? I'm at 300 grams.

Oh... and red standard Wolfe front springs.

If the car is slow from the middle off (mine was) try moving the left rear in and readjust weight I recently learned this and it did in fact help the car turn better from the center off.Brian burkhart and Mike V have been a tremendous help with helping me understand about this set up stuff.

TG, my LR is 369 grams with a 4 cell 3300 pack, tray all the way back, cells all the way back and out.

pepe -- how much did you move the LR in ??

I'm running the 2 aluminum spacers that came with the kit.

Thanks!

tg...a rule of thumb...i'm running the LR approx 1/8" out vs LF..then i'm running 200mm full width rear track(MEASURED FROM THE OUTSIDE EDGE OF EACH REAR RIMS)..if tight...move BOTH wheel to the right(go as far as having both left wheels at same level..)IF loose..move those the left..

the idea..is...by moving the rear center pushing point(if you measure the center of rear track) to the right..the car will turn itself to the left(wich is a good thing in oval)..and moving it to the left..it will push forward...wich will help in a loose condition(you could experience it by pushing a book that is laying on a desk...if you move your pushing point to the right...then your giving it a turning motion...)

hope this helps..

Eric Salvas

TEAM HD

Eric --

re: "...i'm running the LR approx 1/8" out vs LF.."

measuring from car centerline to OUTSIDE of both front and rear wheels ??

By the way, I'm running the LF in the MIDDLE track postion and the RF all the way in. What are you running in the front ?


Thanks!

TeamGoodwrench try running the front end the other way. narrow left front and right front middle holes. then reset the rear track from that.

Hi Mike:

Thanks for the post!

Kevin Koback gave me the front-end setup I'm running now.

What's the theory of moving the LF all the way in and the RF to the middle ?? vs. the way I have it now ??


Thanks for the help.

Mike - I have a question about the side springs. I ran at a small carpet track with really narrow corners which tries to unload the left rear tire. Had to run a lot of left rear weight. Would stiffer side springs help? We were running 6cells. I had purple front springs and wolf opaque side springs. double purple rf, purple lf, blue rr and green lr. 40wt side shocks 60wt in center.

Need your opinions on centered pod vs. offset pod for 19T 4 cell. Which would you prefer for a high bite track like Snowbirds and why. Thanks for your help.

-centered pod on a LOW TRACTION TRACK...
-offset pod on HIGH TRACTION SURFACE...

the reason is...you need more left weight on high bite track 'cause...if its the case...there will be more weight thrown to the right side...such as the snowbird track(2002 edition)...if there is not enough..it may result in traction roll or instability...

lately...at the same track(grcsr.com)i moved to a centered pod 'cause the temperature is colder...wich results in less bite...

its the same debate as oil selection in side shocks..

if track is really sticky(lot of bite..) thicker oil...or thinner oil to transfer weight easily..

when the car roll into a turn...it transfer weight to the right side...if you put thicker oil...you reduce the amount of weight beign transfered to the right side..wich is kept on the left...so you will notice a thighter situation...

with thinner oil...the weight transfer is faster wich will lossen the car...

hope this helps..

keep up the good work guys...

Eric Salvas
TEAM HD

Hi Mike/Eric:

From my post above --

What's the theory of moving the LF all the way in and the RF to the middle ?? vs. the way I have it now ( LF middle, RF all the way in) ??

Thanks again guys!

listen...the setup i'm using(LF in RF middle)is the setup i found to work good at a certain type of track(166ft almost flat ozite track) and with the tires i'm running..

the rule of thumb is...adjust it for YOUR car...the way i'm running it is a good starting point...but your setup could differ(mostly related to your tire setup...compound)

here it goes..

the way your running your setup...you should have more steering(looser)....when moving LF out...it will give you steering going in...moving RF in will give you steering too...mostly going out...

so if your car was loose..or not having enough traction going out(wich is a real good thing to have good top-end)...then moving the wheels the way we're running it is good...

for exemple..the way i'm running it(LF in,RF middle)..if the car would be little loose off the corner...then i would move the RF out...if my car would be tight in(assuming i'm having a good caster adjustment)..i would move LF to middle...

so it all depends the way your car is reacting...

but hey...don't forget...we're running oval...the offset part of the chassis is a good thing to preserve...so this is why i don't think running the way you had it(LFmiddle, RF in) could not be a good or accurate setup...i would play with springs or weight distribution(battery tray)...or MOSTLY tires...'Cause a lot of people don't play enough with those....remember...a good chassis WILL never be ok if the 4 small black contact patches are not appropriate

hope this helps

Eric Salvas
TEAM HD

Eric -- thanks for taking the time to explain. I REALLY appreciate it !

Here's what I'm trying to get to -- the car is GREAT turning in.

I'm trying to make it freer in the middle and off. I'm running RED front springs (std --not progressive) and for tires, 3 black Jacos and a white Jaco LR.


Thanks!

make sure when running a red spring on LF...that its not collapsing under the weight of the car when its standing neutral(full dressed...body ready to go...)

you must know that normally you should run a stiffer LF springs..'cause your having more weight on that corner...

the way i'm adjusting those front springs(i'm running a green and a red out front)...is not having much of preload on the spring(when yoiu snap the c-clip...you should compress the spring just a little bit..approx .010")then when you let car down...when you compress the front suspension...the front(mostly LF)should go back up or almost...

as far as tires...i won't a big help...since i'm a BSR team driver..

Eric Salvas
TEAM HD-BSR

Eric-Do you durometer your tires? After a few runs I have noticed variations in readings/some tires get softer while some hold up.