TG you're right.

BRDR, yes moving LF out will loosen up the car middle-off, but by doing so you also reduce left percentage ... that's why I'd rather move LR in instead since it'll increase left percentage as well as loosen up the car middle-off.

For high banked tracks, I'd think of moving out the LF (reduced left percentage) but not on flat tracks.

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

I guess I never thought about it that way. So if that is the case the ideal front set up would be RF all the way out and the LF all the way in to get the left side % up and just adjust with the LR in or out for coming off the corners?

Thanks for the info!

Steve is this with a off set rear pod or straight up thanks

Straight up pod.

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

Hmmmm.. I run offset.

If you are trying to optimize left side weight, why do you run the straight-up pod ??

Thx

I also run offset. Would you set up like this for off set to?

Ditto.. what LITTLEAL said.

What kind of stagger do you run on the front and rear tires with that setup ?

I've run straight-up and offset (cut 5mm of inside of LR wheel with the offset pod, if not it won't fit)... I set it (rear track) the same way either with offset and straight-up. Offset pod is suited for high bite surface and high cornering speed as straight-up will work just fine on any surface/type of track. I'm going to run an offset pod in open mod 4c and 6c @ the Snowbirds.

+0.040 front
+0.020 rear

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

PS. I really go ... eeeeek :eek: ... when I hear reverse stagger lol

Reverse stagger ?? or regular ??

Thx

steve, If you have rear steer in the ruler tool for the 3mm LR out is inaccurate, the edge of the wheel is longer parrellel with the center line of the car.. I believe you need to you use a board with measurements on it..

tj

BRDRacing.. If the car is pretty good by moving LR as little as 2 gold axle shims it is noticable..1 of those thick silver ones is huge..

tj

What are the best tire compounds to run? Greens and blues? Whites and greys? Pinks and purples? Blacks? Or any combo of these?

Do certain compounds offer more desireable chacacteristics?

TJ. I agree ... !

Ruler/3mm is a good starting point anyway (even if the edge of the tire isn't parallel to the center line of the car). I always start with ruler/3mm and then move LR in until car is having good middle-off.

Laying the chassis flat on its side would probably more accurate in order to measure the LR offset versus the LF.

I'm running the following John's BSR Racing Tires' setup ...

4-cell stock / 19T
LF ... white (32) ... TQ Mod
RF ... gray (38) ... TQ Mod
LR ... green (33) ... TQ Mod
RR ... Gray (38) ... TQ Mod

Open Mod
LF ... Pink ... TQ Mod
RF ... Purple ... TQ Mod
LR ... Pink ... TQ Mod
RR ... Pink ... TQ Mod

Steve. :wave:
Team HD/BSR

I personnaly set the LF in and RF in the middle. I set the LR 3mm (0.125") out versus the LF and then I set the reartrack at 200mm (7.875").

If the car is tight middle-out, move the LR in. If you have to set the LR so it is set inside of the LF, try adding grip to the LF tire instead ... either by going to a softer compound or try a different foam type ie. gray/white or soft blue/green.

If the car is tight going in, move the RF in or RR out.

I prefer the LF to be in on flat tracks since it'll optimize left percentage which is a good thing on most of the flat tracks. Only when the track surface is kind of slippery, having less left percentage is welcomed.

Finally, and I'd actually check that first, I run 0.015" of rear steer using the 1/4 degree bottom pod plate (#BP-7055) on flat tracks. In order to verify rear steer I measure the gap difference between the main chassis and the bottom pod plate at the 1st and 3rd t-plate screw. I don't file the chassis and the bottom pod plate in these areas so the measurement isn't affected. 0.015"-0.020" is usually really good on flat tracks.

Hope this helps.

Steve Salvas :wave:
Team HD

I forget you guys are talking foam tires,is this set up going to be different for caps?cause when I move the LF out and RF in it makes the car really tight center off,I'm going to go with the LF in and RF centered with rear track width at 8", 4" on both sides from center with standard pod,it takes 4 of the thick spacers on the left side to get it,I'm also running short wheelbase.Also,what does HD have in the pipeline for 2004?

I forget you guys are talking foam tires,is this set up going to be different for caps?cause when I move the LF out and RF in it makes the car really tight center off,I'm going to go with the LF in and RF centered with rear track width at 8", 4" on both sides from center with standard pod,it takes 4 of the thick spacers on the left side to get it,I'm also running short wheelbase.Also,what does HD have in the pipeline for 2004?

Hi pepe, I personnaly set my car no different for caps, I actually never noticed my car to react any differently with caps than foam. I've never run any wider than 7.875" (200mm), I've run between 7.750"(197mm) and 7.875" depending of the track ... I measured the centerline of my rear axle to be .080"(2mm offset) to the the right of the chassis' centerline.

I'm also running the short wheelbase on my SSE-PRO2s.

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

What is the theory about using the forward holes vs the rear holes for the t-plate? I assume that extending the rear pod would put more weight on the front making it turn better right? Running it in the forward set would make the car shorter but in effect moving the weight further back. Also I've been experimenting with the front end by raising and lowering the upper arm mounts. I have the left flat or parallel with lower arms and the right side is 3 holes down from the top ( The inside of the atrm is slightly lower than the outside). By lowering the right side it will give you more bite on entry and exit or only one? What about the left side? (I'm just looking for some basic guidlines) Thanks for all the help so far.

What is the theory about using the forward holes vs the rear holes for the t-plate? I assume that extending the rear pod would put more weight on the front making it turn better right? Running it in the forward set would make the car shorter but in effect moving the weight further back. Also I've been experimenting with the front end by raising and lowering the upper arm mounts. I have the left flat or parallel with lower arms and the right side is 3 holes down from the top ( The inside of the atrm is slightly lower than the outside). By lowering the right side it will give you more bite on entry and exit or only one? What about the left side? (I'm just looking for some basic guidlines) Thanks for all the help so far.

Hi Ken, if you're looking for basic guidelines...

Shorter wheelbase will make the car turn more agressively, a shorter car is capable of a shorter turning radius ... quick proof: for the same amount of steering angle a shorter car will turn in smaller circle than a longer wheelbase car.

Camber gain on the RF is a must on most oval tracks ... specially the flat tracks. It allows to maximize the contact patch of the RF thus improving the grip. I usually set my RF camber at -1.5 degree.

On the LF you want minimum camber gain. I usually set my LF camber at +0.5 degree.

The right side of the car is for entry-middle of the curve ... and the left side of the car is for middle-off.

If you're looking for more steering on entry try either ...
softer RF spring or tire
stiffer RR tire or LR spring (the LR spring is in fact working as the "RR" spring)
move in the RF
move out the RR

If you're looking for more steering on exit try either ...
softer LF spring or tire
stiffer LR tire or RR spring (the RR spring is in fact working as the "LR" spring)
move out the LF
move in the LR

THE BIG CHALLENGE is actually to read and feel what the car's doing ... that is exactly where I'd say it pays ... study and pay good attention to your car's handling ... that's how you'll gain consistency in your overall performance.

Hope this helps.

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

I understand the concept about the shorter wheelbase turning better on tight track. So basically moving the rear pod closer to the main chassis is another way to shorten it.

I was just thinking that by using the front wheelbase in the short position and the rear wheelbase in the longer it would help the car turn better because it has more weight forward. Maybe I'm over thinking here. I was just trying to get a little more weight closer to the front. The car is a little tight exiting the corner now and I can't figure out why. I never gave it a thought to change the left front spring for exiting a corner. I was changing the RF all the time and wasn't getting the feel that I wanted.
I really appreciate the help so far. The car is much better than last week. The car was really fast for the first 3 weeks of the indoor carpet season and then it wouldn't turn in and pushed bad off. The rear pod and axle discussion helped out alot!

Next week I will try the front end ideas.

Just a another question about the rear pod. The track that I run on is very tight. The infield is only 4 feet wide. The ruuning line is only 115ft with 12 foot wide straights. I have only tried the offset pod (shifted to the left and using the long RR and short LR hubs) The track has a lot of grip. Basically the general rule of thumb is flat track is offset to the left and banked tracks are to the right. What do you think I could gain by either setup on this track?

Thank you again for your help Steve!

The right side of the car is for entry-middle of the curve ... and the left side of the car is for middle-off.

If you're looking for more steering on entry try either ...
softer RF spring or tire
stiffer RR tire or LR spring (the LR spring is in fact working as the "RR" spring)
move in the RF
move out the RR

If you're looking for more steering on exit try either ...
softer LF spring or tire
stiffer LR tire or RR spring (the RR spring is in fact working as the "LR" spring)
move out the LF
move in the LR



Steve. :wave:
Team HD

I learned more from your post than anything else I have read on set-up.
I always thought that each side or tire on the car would be responsible for the way the car handles in different parts of the turn.

Now since those tips were to get more steering, would you do the opposite to tighten up the car?

When do you change the center shock spring or preload?

Thanks,
Tom

Steve -- Which body are you running on flat tracks ??

I've been playing with the Protoform Dodge on a flat track -- it's really consistent -- just doesn't turn as aggressively as the HD MC.

Thx

Update form Classic hobbies,.. Hyperdrive SSEII dominates!

takes all 3 track records
stock- 53 4:00
19t- 60 4:01
mod- 65 4:00

Keep up the great work Barry and Joe.


later
frank p.
IRS
FINISHLINE
BOLINK
BSR
K.C. RACING
SMC
HYPERDRIVE

Steve --

running positive stagger in the front -- doesn't that take some steering away ?? .040 positive seems like quite a bit in the front.

Just curious why so much positive in the front ???

Thx

I am going to be getting into oval racing soon and need a good starting point for the setup of a Hyperdrive 0700 ease. The car will be run on a small, flat, carpet oval. ANY help would be appreciated. I have not run the car yet and don't know much about car setup...


THANKS!



Jeff

I understand the concept about the shorter wheelbase turning better on tight track. So basically moving the rear pod closer to the main chassis is another way to shorten it.

I was just thinking that by using the front wheelbase in the short position and the rear wheelbase in the longer it would help the car turn better because it has more weight forward. Maybe I'm over thinking here. I was just trying to get a little more weight closer to the front. The car is a little tight exiting the corner now and I can't figure out why. I never gave it a thought to change the left front spring for exiting a corner. I was changing the RF all the time and wasn't getting the feel that I wanted.
I really appreciate the help so far. The car is much better than last week. The car was really fast for the first 3 weeks of the indoor carpet season and then it wouldn't turn in and pushed bad off. The rear pod and axle discussion helped out alot!

Next week I will try the front end ideas.

Just a another question about the rear pod. The track that I run on is very tight. The infield is only 4 feet wide. The ruuning line is only 115ft with 12 foot wide straights. I have only tried the offset pod (shifted to the left and using the long RR and short LR hubs) The track has a lot of grip. Basically the general rule of thumb is flat track is offset to the left and banked tracks are to the right. What do you think I could gain by either setup on this track?

Thank you again for your help Steve!

With such a small turning radius make sure the car is capable of shifting its weight rapidly (20-30 wt in side shocks) and that the LR isn't out too much out, I'd start with the LR flush with the LF and see if it helps ... I don't know about your tire setup but a LF too firmed will also cause your car to be tight coming off... most important: if you do a change and it doesn't help ... undo it! 1 change at a times will allow you to put your finger on the real problem, and you then will learn from each scenario .... that's how you get faster week after week ... by learning each time you solve a problem on your car ... after a few seasons you'll be able to solve any issues with your setup ... you'll then say something like that: "... I had such a problem like that before and it was caused by my left rear being too much out ... let's try it with the LR moved in 0.020" ..." Gaining experience and getting faster is a matter of unsolving setup issues effectively (keep that in mind).

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

[QUOTE=TOME57]I learned more from your post than anything else I have read on set-up.
I always thought that each side or tire on the car would be responsible for the way the car handles in different parts of the turn.

Now since those tips were to get more steering, would you do the opposite to tighten up the car? Yes!

When do you change the center shock spring or preload?

You should always typically run as stiff (spring wise) as your car will allow you to ... A flat track demand softer spring and a banked track a stiffer spring (you knew that!) but preload is crucial!

For smooth tracks I always set the center shock length so when it's in full extension, the bottom pod plate is only SLIGHTLY at an angle versus the main chassis. If you put a ruler underneath the main chassis and the bottom pod plate (with shock in full extension) the gap between the ruler and the main chassis has to be around 3-5mm (0.125"-0.1875").

Then adjust the spring tension so that (on a race ready car: battery, motor, body, etc...) the main chassis and the bottom pod plate are perfectly in-line (parallel, flat) ... if you're going to set the spring tension wrong you'd rather be on the "too much" (front of bottom pod plate higher than rear) than on the "not enough" side (rear of bottom pod plate higher than the front). With proper spring tension the center shock should only compress 1-3mm (0.125") when you put the car down on its wheels. With a center spring too stiff the car will be real nervous and itchy through the turns (usually fast if you can hold on to it!). With a center spring too soft, the car will be real sluggish through the turns (usually real slow!).

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

Steve -- Which body are you running on flat tracks ??

I've been playing with the Protoform Dodge on a flat track -- it's really consistent -- just doesn't turn as aggressively as the HD MC.

Thx

I'm currently running a PROTOform Taurus on my 4-cell stock car, which I find to be really well balanced. I'm going to run a PROTOform HD Monte Carlo @ the Snowbird Nats (open mod).

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

Steve --

running positive stagger in the front -- doesn't that take some steering away ?? .040 positive seems like quite a bit in the front.

Just curious why so much positive in the front ???

Thx

Front stagger isn't as important as chassis stagger ... measure your main chassis height (LF of battery brace versus the right of the main chassis) and check your chassis stagger. I usually set my chassis stagger between 0.040"-0.060" for flat tracks and a little less on banked tracks.

BTW ... 0.040" stagger (front tires) is in fact only 0.020" of chassis stagger (diameter divided by 2).

If you don't have enough chassis stagger the chassis will roll over the right side of the car ... visualize the chassis and imagine how it reacts through the turn ... by having the proper chassis stagger the right side of the chassis will compress down through the turns ... by not having enough chassis stagger the left side will lift and the right tires will either give or simply traction roll the car, a RF that grips too much will also cause that (traction roll) but I'm sure you get the picture.

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

I am going to be getting into oval racing soon and need a good starting point for the setup of a Hyperdrive 0700 ease. The car will be run on a small, flat, carpet oval. ANY help would be appreciated. I have not run the car yet and don't know much about car setup...


THANKS!



Jeff

You can visit my setup page for a hand.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tqcells/setup.htm

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

Steve,
After viewing your car I noticed you use a cross brace between your A arms...can you explain what effect it has and how it helps. I run on a short, flat track. (115').
By the way...sweet car and thanks for all the help:thumbsup:

Steve,
After viewing your car I noticed you use a cross brace between your A arms...can you explain what effect it has and how it helps. I run on a short, flat track. (115').
By the way...sweet car and thanks for all the help:thumbsup:

I never ran without one so I coudn't tell you how it helps compared to none ... I run one because I'd rather have the suspension to do the work and not the chassis (flex). Some said that without one you gain steering ... I say you better work on your front suspension (spring, caster, lube, etc.) instead of removing the brace.

I just posted pictures of my green machine (SSE-PRO2).

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

Hey Steve --

Great car setup info !

Question -- why the progressive LF spring and standard RF ??

Thx!

Steve,

The Pro 2 was a good car when I first got it. Now it is an excellent car! I've been racing alomost 10 years now and I still learn new stuff all of the time. Those changes to the rear relly helped out. Thank you again!


Ken

I've had my proII for six months now and I still love this car it's just a great car,Barry and the boys are going to have a tough time topping this one.

Hey Steve --

Great car setup info !

Question -- why the progressive LF spring and standard RF ??

Thx!

No real reason for it, just that I run a flipped RF steering arm on the LF ... I screw in the ball stud from under the LF steering arm and doing so it eliminates bump steer. But doing so also shortens the kingpin under the LF bottom a-arm (if I'd set the kingpin longer it would then contact the wheel), so I put a Wolfe pro-gressive green with the small ID facing down and then just an e-clip to hold the spring in place.

I've run this setup for the past 3 years and it has been good to me so I kept it this way.

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

Steve,

You said that the Right side of the car is for the entry to middle and the left side of the car is for entry and exit. But what if the car is just pushing in the center of the corners, what do you do then?

Thank you
Brooks

Do you no when there gonna make the new hyper drive available to the public

Do you no when there gonna make the new hyper drive available to the public

What new Hyperdrive?

Well I have heard that some of the sponsored drives have a new solid chassis that they are trying that is lighter then the current solid chassis. PEPE you may want to as Helms about it! I am sure that he will know!

Brooks

I have heard they came out with a stiffer chassis for BMS last year at the nats? I would welcome a lighter ProII chassis for sure,as long as it doesn't give up rigidity.

Steve,

You said that the Right side of the car is for the entry to middle and the left side of the car is for entry and exit. But what if the car is just pushing in the center of the corners, what do you do then?

Thank you
Brooks

Hi Brooks, "Right side of the car is for the entry to middle and the left side of the car is for middle to exit"

I personnaly never felt a car that would only be tight in the middle of the corner ... do you really mean that your car is fine on entry then tight in middle of the corner and then fine on exit? Too much weight percentage to the front will cause the front of the car to give in middle of the corner ... weight = inertia ... if you move too much weight to the front of the car, the front of the car won't turn as easy. That brings me to the topic of battery location versus car's handling characteristics ... I once beleived that weight would equal more bite ... so I thought that moving the battery forward would give more steering ... FALSE ... moving the battery forward will in fact load the front making it a heavier mass thus more difficult to change direction. (In my own simple words) you also move weight closer to the front wheels which controls the steering of the car ... if you'd like your car to steer better move the center of mass to the rear, doing so will elongate the lever from which the front wheel act (just my own theory, based on my experiences). Guidelines: If you have too much front percentage the front of the car will give (tight) in middle of corner, if you have too much rear percentage the rear end will give (loose) in middle of the corner. You basically see the car jerk in the middle of the corner, back and forth (in middle of the corner, either the front or the rear).

I personnaly run my 4-cell pack in slot 3-6 from the rear of the chassis.

Steve. :wave:
Team HD

Hey Guys........there is a lighter version of the Pro 2 (short version). It does not have the long wheel base..... but it does have the shorter 9.6250 along with the 10.000 inch wheelbase. Basically the front end has been chopped off and the shorter wheelbase added, which lightened the chassis plate. I think it is out on the market........but I may be wrong. I do know that the car works extremely well on tight banked tracks in the short wheelbase position.

JWHousley
Team HD
FinishLine Racing Products
T.M. R/C Racing Tires
KC Racing
MSA Racing

Hey Guys........there is a lighter version of the Pro 2 (short version). It does not have the long wheel base..... but it does have the shorter 9.6250 along with the 10.000 inch wheelbase. Basically the front end has been chopped off and the shorter wheelbase added, which lightened the chassis plate. I think it is out on the market........but I may be wrong. I do know that the car works extremely well on tight banked tracks in the short wheelbase position.

JWHousley
Team HD
FinishLine Racing Products
T.M. R/C Racing Tires
KC Racing
MSA Racing

What's the part # for this chassis?

At the Sandhills Memorial race this past weekend the SSE2 short version takes TQ, New track record and first place in Master's stock.

At the Sandhills Memorial race this past weekend the SSE2 short version takes TQ, New track record and first place in Master's stock.
Which wheel base was he running?

Which wheel base was he running?

I was running the short wheelbase in the short position

Pepe, not sure what the part # is on the chassis.......Barry might be able to help out on this!

PEPE, Do you want me to see if I can get you one!

The part number for the short chassis is CP-7009 and retails for 83.99.

Part number for the Battery tray with receiver mount that says 700 is BT-7037 and retails for 26.99.

thanks
barry

Good deal! thanks Barry.

Please post the part number so that my LHS can get me one ASAP.