Over a big Denny's breakfast this morning the "interested parties" who have continually and consistantly raced at my track over the last year decided that magnet car speeds, now approaching 3/4ths of a second, are just way too fast. With how fast things were over and done with at Yoshi's track we decided that this is the last series that will be raced with magnet cars at our 3 tracks.

Like Indy, Sequoia was built for cars that were to be going quite a bit slower. T-Jets to be specific. So we decided that once this 6 race series is over in late April we're going to trade in our LifeLike NASCAR cars for T-Jets and DASH VW bodies, Karman Ghia's and Beetles. Mini-stockers. A new T-jet with a DASH Cobra 427 body will run a lap in 2.43 seconds, on Mosqueda Speedway the laps are 3.08 seconds, and on the Yoshimira banked oval wide open it's 2.5 seconds flat out. This is on 3R white letter tires though, and we intend to run skinny's, possibly skinny silicones.

The mini stocks haven't been tested, I don't know which one will work best but I may just build one of each and then test. Yoshi is already leaning to the Karman Ghia, so is Mr. Champion. I'm hoping to have a field of a dozen cars by mid summer with EVERYONE owning their own cars this time.

In anyone has any experience with the DASH Beetle or Ghia please chime in, I'm interested in seeing more pictures of what can be done with them as far as lowering, etc. Rules have to be written, much will concern the chassis but if a body template is going to be required then I'd like to have that written in as well.

More power to ya Pete! With your talent for scenery, why go so fast?
I wonder if DASH would make a COT for Tjets?

Rich :thumbsup:

Rich I think the mini's will be a blast. We're talking now if we want to go with just a regular JLTO chassis with the wide rear tires or go with NOS narrow front and rear wheels and tires. I'd love to use either the resin or injected 3R wheel sets but I've been reading a lot of postings about poor quality lately. If we used the JLTO chassis it would simplify things a great deal not to mention make them less expensive. We want to keep each car to less than $25, and you can actually get a Release 5 VW Beetle for only $14 if you wanted to run that body.

We're just going way too fast at Sequoia. I mean, when we were going 1.05 seconds I thought it was too fast, now we're running a full 2/10ths below that. I can't even SEE my car at those speeds, and driving by sound don't work with 3 other cars lapping with you. It looks like I'm pretty much completely done with the kids series, my latest attempt to get community center kids involved off site failed when the new rec supervisor removed all of my flyers.

I'm going to finish this series then place all of my Lifelike cars up for sale to finance my own T-Jet mini stock fleet. I can't afford to build my cars, Sarah's cars and a few rent-a-racers any other way. This evening Yoshi raced my green DASH Cobra against me and my DASH Galaxie in a very nice 100 lapper, we were sideways much of the time but amazingly we didn't crash as much as either of us expected. We then ran about 50 laps on the flat Mosqueda Speeday and did alright. At least it was much easier for me to see and track my car. My Galaxie is on a fairly new JLTO, the Cobra is on a Fun-Jet chassis with 3R wheels and silicones and it was pretty close to even as long as I could run the inside lanes.

Hey Pete!

Keep me in mind when you go to sell those Life Like COTs!!!!

I want to pick some up soon.....

Thanks!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:

You could pull the traction magnets, add weight and run the cars a 12 volt...
Give it a try... :cool:

Scott

I think the JL / AW tjets would probably have too much grunt for the skinny NOS tjet tires. Maybe one of the tjet pros around here could recommend a way to gear them back a bit.

As far as Scott's suggestion for taking the little dot mags out of the LL cars, maybe give that a try also. I have a LL sprint car that was wicked fast on my 8' oval (9" & 12" Tomy turns) but I plucked the mags out and it became much more reasonable. The motor mags were plenty to keep it tracking but it was still able to wiggle a little coming out of the hole.

Oh, and the Dash bug is a little tight in the doors on an AW chassis. A little - not a deal breaker.

I think the JL / AW tjets would probably have too much grunt for the skinny NOS tjet tires. Maybe one of the tjet pros around here could recommend a way to gear them back a bit.

You can slow down the JL/AWs by changing them to a 9 tooth pinion gear and a crown gear like on the original Aurora tjet chassis.

You can slow down the JL/AWs by changing them to a 9 tooth pinion gear and a crown gear like on the original Aurora tjet chassis.

I second that, they run much better with the 9 tooth....

That 9 tooth modification is what I've been doing to slow down my cars. You will find though that the skinny Tjet tires are still squirly and hard to control. The AW arm is hotter and the magnets a bit stronger. A little R+D will be needed to find the right combo of wheels/tires, etc to get what you're looking for. As far as swapping the 14 tooth AW for the 9 tooth Aurora, I've found (thanks to Bill Hall) you need to do the following:

1. Remove the back gear with a flat screw driver.
2. Take off the top plate and remove the pinion and shaft.
3. Get a drill bit the same size or a hair larger then the pinionshaft hole and open it up just a touch on the top plate and the chassis base. When opening them up you will need to favor towards the rear of the chassis and top plate. With a dremel it goes quick so be careful you don't over bore the hole.

I never measured up the gears to see where the size discrepency is in the gear train to see where the difference is.. I'm sure one of our TJet Gurus has the answer to that one.

4. Pull the rear axle and swap in an Aurora Tjet crown. Reasseble and test. If it's "tight" the odds are the pinion shaft needs a bit more room towards the back so work the dremel again in the pinion shaft hole. This conversion uses the AW back gear on the top plate. I'm not sure how brass gears across the top will effect the spacing, as I've never attempted that part of the swap.

I've done this conversion about 20X now, no expert for sure, but I've done enough to make me dangerous. It's very easy to over bore the hole if trying to do this while on the phone!! Ooooops!! :rolleyes:

Hope this info helps, Pete!

Regarding the LifeLike sprint cars......We run a "spec tire" which is a silicone drag tire that measures .500 OD. Every one gets the tires out of the bag on race night & returns them after the races are finished. The tires raise the car up enough to take away some of the down force and that allows us to cut the voltage down in the area of 9-10 volts so the speeds come down relative to the handling. We allow any of the LifeLike chassis and they all seem to work pretty close. We've also lowered the center section of the body down between the side pods which helps the handling some but really makes them look a whole lot better & more accurate. I'll have to look for some pictures

Scott we've been running the LL cars on 12v since Sequoia was built, even on 9 volts they are just too fast for my bullring. The track was built for T-Jets and X-Traction cars, and I bowed to the racers that wanted to go fast. I've raced pancake motor cars since they came out in the 1960's, and it was huge here in the early to mid 1980's. The group I raced with then pretty much did everything possible from magnet shimming to rewinding arms. I just happened to get into vacuforming bodies for my modifications. The cars we're running now except for the wheels and tires are out of the box stock with the stock gearing.

The JL/AW cars work great with Road Race Replica's resin wheels and those sticky white letter tires. For me it also makes them look better, I just can't get past the wide rear tires sticking out of the body. A set of wheels and tires are $7, the #821 narrows are $3.50, $4.50 for chrome. We're still talking about that aspect of the racing.

Wayne, I'll PM you a list of the cars I have available now, my CoT's aren't being used at all and nearly all have no time on them. I need to offer anyone who donated CoT's for my kids race, if you want the cars back please let me know and I will send them to you. I'm not going to actively pursue getting neighborhood kids involved anymore.

Hey Pete!

Thanks!

Just PMed ya back....

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Scott we've been running the LL cars on 12v since Sequoia was built, even on 9 volts they are just too fast for my bullring. The track was built for T-Jets and X-Traction cars, and I bowed to the racers that wanted to go fast.

Ok... Sorry that idea didn't work... I wouldn't think a LL car would even come off the track at 12v with it's traction magnets...
Hmmm.. Tjets it is!!!

Scott

It's Official, Yoshi has offered to help "sponsor" the new class of car by building two rent-a-racers. DASH Motorsports VW Karman Ghia and VW Beetle bodies have also been named the SPEC bodies. Mr. Champion has agreed to supply 5 new chassis of my choice, either NOS or JL/AW. Sarah has placed an order for a pink DASH Karman Ghia with yellow wheels, not too sure yet what I'm going to race but I'm leaning towards a Beetle. I think Yoshi and Mr. Champion have both said Karman Ghia's.

Whoa Nellie! Stab those brakes! Go Ghia Pete!

Better fit on the chassis.

Better weight distribution.

More aerodynamic.

Bill I would think more for a lower CG than anything else.

The real problem with Life Like cars, any magnetic car for that matter, at Sequoia is that we've gotten to the point in our tire technology where the "hard" spec tire isn't so hard anymore. Everyone has gone to soaking their tires in alcohol, lighter fluid or lacquer thinner to make them softer and sticky. With the neo magnet helpers you only have to lift off, "breath" them into the corners and then you're wide open again. With out 10 lap qualifying runs you can actually race flat out for the first two or three laps, then have to lift ever so slightly once your tires pick up a little track dust. It's no longer racing in the drivers hands so much as who has the fastest, or freshest car.

When a Life Like car crashes it's a matter of a catastrophic loss of downforce and the car flies off. They don't just spin out, they will deslot and travel to the wall (or beyond) before stopping, often coming back into the racing lanes. A simple crash can set you back half a dozen or more laps with the guys going 0.80 seconds per lap, if you make it off the layout you are pretty much done for that race. This isn't how it was meant to be a year ago when Pete and I built this track, and for months now I've been nearly begging to do away with it. With a pancake motor car if you spin (chances are you will) you can get back in with only losing a lap, maybe two. They have not made it over the new walls, nor to the floor. If you drive in deep and the rear end comes loose the guy behind you will pass you, but then you put the pressure on him and wait for retribution. Side to side contact, or Pete's famous Bump and Run, isn't such a big deal because cars stay on the track. This is another big reason to not use the JLTO rear wheels and tires.

With the T-Jets we will have guys like John Mears build a $100 car to win a $5 race, and that's where I personally have a problem with open rules. The absolute first thing that we all agreed on was not to have the Ultra-G cars at all. We may as well go back to T-Chassis if we did that. We will be allowing some rather liberal motor rules but stock magnets are a must. The 9T pinion sounds like a good rule, I'll lobby for that too. I like the tire and wheel sets that make the cars look like real race cars, not a dualie pick-up truck with a car body on it. I agree that the OEM skinny tires are too skinny, and the alternatives are the cottage industry guys like Road Race Replica's who have long waits for their products. All we can do as promoters is anticipate and order enough extra for guys who will want to get into this class later on. We've switched a lot as far as classes go in the past trying to find that one single class that works here. T-Jets always have so that was the logical choice.

An entry level car will be the Release 5 VW Beetle with the spec wheel and tire set that will be supplied by us. I don't know what it will be yet, we have time to decide that much. Guys who build their own cars can choose from the DASH Karman Ghia or the VW Beetle with no modifications to the body. That means no lowering and the windows must be intact. Mean Green arms, aftermarket brushes and springs and gearing will be OK but other than dying and/or boiling the chassis can't be touched. Ski shoes only, and a plastic based guide pin although the BSRT delrin will be fine. No weights or extra hidden magnets will be allows and the cars will be actively inspected for that.

I don't know if the gentleman that does the DASH cars frequents this forum but if he does I'd like to congradulate him on his past works and I can't wait to see both the Beetle and the Karman Ghia on chassis. In April I'll be ordering the parts for the rental cars as well as my own and Sarah's. I love the Cobra I got and the VW bus as well. I plan to build a small trailer to haul my Ghia to the races after Pete modifiy's by bus into a VW Bus/Truck. Pictures will follow.

...some modifications will be allowed to make the Beetle more.....competitive.

http://www.e-race.info/image_037.jpg

I bet it's a blast to see the 1:1 Fun Cup cars run....:cool:


...some modifications will be allowed to make the Beetle more.....competitive.

http://www.e-race.info/image_037.jpg

Back to our regular programming...

So, what kind of mods are you planning?

Scott

Wayne, I'll PM you a list of the cars I have available now, my CoT's aren't being used at all and nearly all have no time on them. I need to offer anyone who donated CoT's for my kids race, if you want the cars back please let me know and I will send them to you. I'm not going to actively pursue getting neighborhood kids involved anymore.

I'm sorry to hear this Pete. :( I know I sent you some, but can't remember which ones I sent you. The only one I'd even be remotely interested in would be the M&M car because my daughter loves M&M's. Other than that, you can do with them what you want bro. They were for the kiddos, but if that's not the plan anymore then I understand. Those resources are entrusted to you to do with them as you see fit. Feel free as even their value was to help you out as much as possible - personally and event wise.

Let me know.

PD2:thumbsup:

Hehehehe, we're not going to really allow any Beetle mods, at least not until we're sure they would need them. One other reason that Yoshi didn't touch on is with the Thunderjet class of car we're getting close to the rest of the scale of the track. Virtually everything on it is true 1/87th HO scale. With T-Jets, which are close to 1/76th I believe, we're more in scale that with 1/64th cars. If I'm measuring my track right as a 1/5th mile and Yoshi is running 2.50 second average laps that makes the average T-Jet speed to be about 288 MPH. This beats the nearly 900 MPH that a car running 0.80 average laps it doing. Even at a one second per lap car is supersonic around the oval at 720 MPH. When we crank the voltage down to 9 volts we still get sideways but the average times are in the 3 second range, and in the 240 MPH range. For a realistic speed of 90 MPH average (super modified speeds) we'd have to turn laps at 10 seconds.

Paul I don't have the M&M's CoT, never got it. I got the 2 Dale Jr's, Stewart/Lagano and FedEx cars as donors. The #38 M&M's car I do have is the older style that I got from Lucky Bob's.

The only reason I'm not running with the kids is because I have no place to run other than my house. I really don't want some marginal thugs in my house, especially with my armory and other stuff. Some of them were great with the magnet cars but I think the TJ's are going to be above their skill levels.

I think the JL / AW tjets would probably have too much grunt for the skinny NOS tjet tires. Maybe one of the tjet pros around here could recommend a way to gear them back a bit.

As far as Scott's suggestion for taking the little dot mags out of the LL cars, maybe give that a try also. I have a LL sprint car that was wicked fast on my 8' oval (9" & 12" Tomy turns) but I plucked the mags out and it became much more reasonable. The motor mags were plenty to keep it tracking but it was still able to wiggle a little coming out of the hole.

Oh, and the Dash bug is a little tight in the doors on an AW chassis. A little - not a deal breaker.

Change the crown gear to 19T and replace the JL magnets with TJET magnets that will slow em down

Roger Corrie

Pete do you have any HP7 ? Put a Mattell NASCAR body on it and run them at 6 V if they are too slow kick it up to 10v

Keep the stock tires and they slip and slide like a TJET

If you want to run more Modern NASCAR with a TJET I have a Dodge and Monte Carlo and Ford looking thing there also may be one more mold. I will make you a fresh mod and you can cast your own. Let me know if you are interrested

Alos try running your TJETs on 12vdc slows them down a bunch but all the tunning and buliding tricks still apply A car that runs good and smooth with coast runs almost as good on 12 VDC

Roger Corrie

Roger we went the Tyco 440X2's without traction magnets and had great success with my vacuformed bodies. The cars, IMHO, were what that track could handle. They were also cheap to put together. They had an abundance of horsepower, way too much actually, but the lack of adequate traction kept the relative speeds down. But as with the Lifelike cars the traction issue was beginning to see guys do things to their tires that would have in short order brought the speeds back up. I have a very nice polymer magnet XT with a mean green arm and silicones that does very well on the track now, and that is well beyond the modifications that will be allowed.

When we start running the T-Jet cars we will allow a silicone based SPEC tire, weither it be from 3R or someone else. There's not much you can to to a silicone other than keep it clean and that will be one less thing to regulate. I had pitched vacuforming bodies, I already have a late model for them, but Yoshi and others were interested in the old pictures I have of the cars from that era.

As far as bodies, I appreciate the offer Roger and I'll pass it along to Yoshi. Moonstone makes a dirt modified that I found interesting but at $15 put the cars above the $30 cap we'd wanted. We just thought that the mini stocks would be cool on the T-Jets, that way if we had a hobby stock or super stock class with XT's it would all work out. It all gets back to the type of cars that raced on the track I grew up around in the 1970's, which were Bug and Ghia mini stocks and 55-56-57 Chevy hobby stocks. A year ago this was what we thought was going to be the draw at the track, now it's what we will race ourselves. We get a few races in and guys want to change classes, we had to follow. Now we're changing the class, let them follow us.

The best thing to do with a lifelike car is mount posts on the body and put it on a t-jet!

Pete,

The spec tire I would use would be Rocket Scinces. You can easily tell their tires and they slide when the break free. The PVT/American line tires tend to hold harder into a corner then break hard or a very quick slide were teh Rocket Science tires are a smooth slide. Beside Jacks prices are great and if you get one of his dime bag rejetcts its even a better deal.

Roger Corrie

Brownie, tried that, they're a bit too wide.

Sounds good Roger, I dug through a parts box and found some of the 3R narrows to try out. The tires are a couple years old though so I don't know if they're still any good. Mr. Champion brought us 3 brand new Release 5 VW Beetles to play with today, we threw some silicones on them and went at it for a while. Lots of tire to tire contact as I expected, we are just going to have to run narrow wheels and tires on the cars. Unfortunately when he left he took the cars with him. :!

Paul I don't have the M&M's CoT, never got it. I got the 2 Dale Jr's, Stewart/Lagano and FedEx cars as donors. The #38 M&M's car I do have is the older style that I got from Lucky Bob's.

The only reason I'm not running with the kids is because I have no place to run other than my house. I really don't want some marginal thugs in my house, especially with my armory and other stuff. Some of them were great with the magnet cars but I think the TJ's are going to be above their skill levels.

That's right...no worries then. The cars are all yours to do with as you please bro.

And I do agree. You don't want these kids knowing where you live, period. Hopefully, one day, the kids series can come back. I think its the worst thing that the City could have "cut back" on and they are going to feel it. Maybe you ought to ask them if you could be considered for the police force since you know you will see some of the same kids come through there that were coming through the center? ;)

Have fun with this series! Sounds like you guys are going to have lots of interesting classes and plenty of test and tune, while racing time.

Enjoy my friend!
PD2:thumbsup:

What are the track specs for Sequoia? :confused:

Is this it?

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z262/FresnoPete/MVC-043S.jpg?t=1236522713

Looks like 9 & 12 turns, with a pair of 15s on the straights. What's in the middle? A 6 or a 9?

I'm intriqued by the small bullring tracks.

I'm interested on any specs you might share as to the construction of your tracks including Mosgued and Yoshimira.

Thx,
Gonzo

Hi Guys!

Not to steal Pete's or any of his racers thunder but I modeled my track after Pete's initial track also.

It is a Life Like 4 lane oval with 9" curves on the inner 2 lanes and 12" banked curves on the outer 2 lanes.

My straights are about 12' long by useing 15" straights and the 9" terminal tracks.

Pete's original 4 lane track of Sequoia speedway was my inspiration with all the great scenery and grandstands it has!

T-jets and xtractions are a blast on a track like this!

You all should give it a try!!!

Hanging those backends of the t-jets out in the banked curves is a blast!

I know all of you have your track preferences but dont write Life Like off as junk.

It is working out great for my racing needs and is inexpensive to build with also......

Wish I could post pics but we are just now into the digital camera age and figuring things out.....

Back to Pete know since it was his thread!

Hey Pete!

Just throwing more Kudos your way my friend!

Keep them in the slot!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:

LOL Wayne, no problem, maybe we need a dedicated Bull Ring thread too.

This is actually the second "Sequoia Speedway". The first is actually called Mosqueda Speedway now and is 9"/12" with 4 15" front and back each lane. It's considered the big track now in the 3 track circuit.

'doba, that is indeed the current Sequoia Speedway, taken during construction a year ago. 9 and 12 inch corners with 2 15's and a 9' inbetween them. The 9" carries not only the terminal track wires but the magnetic reed switches for the race management computer. There is a window cut below the straight to access the bottom. This is how the track looks today:

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2371/208/94/1116229280/n1116229280_30159197_6751.jpg

Gonzo, I think I documented the construction on the forum, I'n not sure how much of the string is still available though. Here's the start of the track:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=215284

Ovals are a blast, but in my humble opinion, you have to do something to get the lap times up around 3 seconds, minimum, or you will get very dizzy very quickly. I've run on 18 foot tables configured as quad ovals with 18/15 turns and the faster magnet cars were really tough to race at 18V. We ended up cutting the heat times down.

Plus, if your lap times are less than 3 seconds marshaling can be a nightmare. With sub 3 second lap times the reaction times of most semi-attentive marshals seems to align perfectly with the rest of the pack coming around for another shot at the marshal's thumb, or worse yet, the wrecked car being placed slightly askew in the slot, resulting in another, even bigger pileup.

Bill I would think more for a lower CG than anything else.....snip

Hence my initial comment on weight distribution Yoshi. It's not only THAT something has weight it's where that weight is that matters.

If I was a lobbying member I'd go for a scenario of fixed chassis requirments for both and allow the beetle competitors some latitude with body mods.

Just by eyeball, the ghia has a fairly level stance where the bug has tail up top heavy stance that's gonna be a nose rollover-a-thon in turns one and three further excerbating the tendency. Where the bug has it's saddlebags in tight the ghia has its baggage out wide. Clearly the beetle has approx. a third of it body mass well above the chassis plate rails. The ghia has 1/4 to 1/5 of its body weight above the rails.

I like Pete's the idea of Porschefying the beetle to make it a fair fight! :thumbsup:...or maybe allow the bugs to go topless in a speedster coniguration!??? ;)

If y'all are gonna race apples and oranges I'd go the extra mile to leveling the playing feild.

I just want to be the first guy to smoke a Ghia with a bug. We're not going to know absolutely for sure until we get both cars on the track. Remember that two of the tracks are banked, Sequoia only slightly but Yoshimera is high banked and high powered. The Beetle may also be heavier, which may help traction out of the corners. If we find out there is a noticable advantage with the Ghia adjustments will be made.

JAG Hobbies has everything we need, including the 3R wheel sets in stock. I'll be ordering my car parts Friday, hopefully I'll get some $$$ on my birthday Thursday from my kids. There is a $40 cap on the cars, we don't have a claiming rule but it has been mentioned. That will allow a driver to have a mean green and some hot aftermarket brushes.

Hey Pete, I'd like to weigh in on this discussion. On our oval we are racing Dash Super Mod Sprint cars JL or Aurora chassis NO TRACTION MAGNETS, open gearing, brushes, shoes, arm (mean Green), open front end, open rear wheels, open slip on silicone tires. These cars nerf and tumble like the real thing. We run them at 20V. Nice pick of our set up at: http://www.daveshoraceway.com The JL muscle car bodies are fun too. We got away from racing the magnet cars for 8 years now. We now use our magnet cars to warm up the track for the t-jets. We and fray like guys have proven you don't have to do 2.7 on a 60 ft road course or .75 as you were talking about on your oval to have fun racing HO cars. Now we are 7 second, 2.1 on our 28 ft oval.... Much more marshal friendly. T-Jet cars have a longer run time, true to scale, just make sense. Our race cars depending on body, cost around $50 after up grades, that is cheap racing my friend.
Oh, please don't let anybody sell you on the hard to rebuild BSRT G-Jet.
Have fun !

Hey Pete!

Happy early Birthday my friend!

It is my 3 year olds Bday today.

Taken her out for ice cream shortly.

I'll be sending $$$$ your way tomorrow for the cars.

I hope this helps abit in getting your new projects off the ground and on the track racing shortly!

Thanks again!

Wayne:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'd like to weight in since I get left out of a lot of the discussions.

I didn't want the VW's mainly because back months ago I was hoping we were going to do the fairgrounds cars from Road Race Replica's. I've told my husband that I would prefer muscle cars, and with the Dash bodies that gives us 8 to choose from:

(based on images on the Jag Hobbies site)

60's sedan (anyone know what this car is?)
Falcon (I assume it's a 63'-65')
Galaxie (64'?)
Camaro (must be a 70'-71')
69' Chevelle
65' GTO
70' 442
'68 Road Runner

Then all that would need to be considered are the wheels and tires, which can be series defined. All of those motor parts, if someone wants to spend that sort of money then let them, within reason of course. I hate claiming races because I've lost two really nice cars in them. Sometimes you just get that one chassis that just works, and some idiot (Yoshi) will race and lose on purpose just to be able to claim the car. Oh yeah, I got the car back, along with stretch marks and morning sickness.

The point is if everyone is going to run a Karman Ghia in a mini stock race then either make that body the series defined body or make it so there is some better variety. Dash isn't going to go out of business, the bodies are available and plentyful, just make them stockers rather than mini stockers. Plus besides the Dash cars there are bodies that come with the cars that would also be allowed for the guys who want to spend less to race. Just put on the defined tires and they would be ready for under $20.

What could be made available by using a Hobby Stock style car:

DASH: 60's sedan, Falcon, Galaxie, Camaro, Chevelle, GTO, 442, and Road Runner.

Model Motoring/JL/AW: GTX, '69 Charger, '70 Chevelle, '64 GTO, '68 Torino, '64 Dodge 330, '68 Firebird, '65 Mustang HT and 2+2, GTO, '62 Impala, and Fairlane. These are the one's I know and am aware of, other 1960's era sedans may also still be available.

Road Race Replicas: Any 1960's era NASCAR style with no modiifications permitted.

Allowances: Front spoiler below front bumper no more than 1/8th inch, rear spoiler on rear deck lid no more than 1/8th inch. Air cleaner may be represented sticking out of hood, exhaust pipes may also be represented but must be made from plastic parts only. No lowering or lightening. Glass and both bumpers must be in place. Wheel wells may be radiused to fit 3R #811, #814 or #816 wheel and tire sets but no more than 1/16th of an inch larger than tires.

And this is just the body rules proposal. This becomes necessary because, as I said in an earlier post, guys will loophole these rules to pieces.

And for the record, Sarah was the one that made the deal to get her cars back, I just went along with it like a kid with a $50 bill in a candy store. Remember babe, I'll be the one who deals with a crying baby at 4AM while you sleep away.

OK I am going to suggest something that we have been doing locally since 1994 with great success. Keep an open mind and hear me out.

After getting the track specs for Sequoia this morning, while working on some rebuilds for our upcoming sports car season, I set up a 'Sequoia Test Track' on our hardly ever used pool table.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/medium/TestTrack.jpg

I used Tomy track, with stock 22v wall pack and used the inside lane of the 12" radius turn for testing.

The cars we have been running since 1994 have been Tyco HP7 with NASCAR die cast car bodies. The new Winner's Circle NASCAR COT cars like the one below fit the long wheelbase HP7 dead nuts perfect.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/COT1.jpg

To mount the body to the chassis is a simple deal -- take a Q-Tip and put a thin coating of vaseline along the sides of the chassis. Then, take a small tube of clear silicone and put a small bead along the inside of the body at the bottom of the doors. Smooth it back a bit with a popsicle stick and slide the chassis into place and let it dry overnight. Next day, your chassis will slide out easily. You will need to Dremel the rear quarters slightly to enlarge the rear fenders and get good clearance (don't do it before silicone'ing the chassis because the tight fender clearance helps to properly locate the chassis).

This is what one of the new COTs looks like mounted up and race ready:
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/COT-Kenseth-HP7.jpg

More in a minute.

Here is a shot of what the silicone mounts look like when dry. You can also see where the fenders have been radiused.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/COT-HP7.jpg

Also note that the Tyco HP2 Curvehugger uses the exact same mounts as an HP7, in case you want to go even slower / lower tech.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/COT-HP7-HP2.jpg

We run on the stock HP7 rubber and in my runs on the Sequoia test track I was running at about 2.3 to 2.5 seconds per lap at 22v. The tail was sliding, the car was moving, the tires were spinning, but it was racy just like the way we have been running on my 8' oval since 1994, shown below, which is five 15" and one 9" straight with 9"/12" turns.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/GraniteFallsSpeedway.jpg

Anyway, for cost, here is how I see it:

COT die cast $4.99-$5.99
HP7 - $11 Lucky Bobs
HP2 - $10 Tubtrack on feePay (LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=400034061135))
NOS HP7 tires - $2-$3 pair

I highly recommend considering this - PM me with any questions. :)

That sounds pretty good using Diecasts, although I think the God of Diecasts would need an extra sacrifice at the alter they have me maintain in my extra room. I have bought a number of extra cars (other than Kenseth) for my collection and have even entertained using Patto's decals to redo some of them. I may try this just to check it out for myself, I really don't like my JPM diecast anymore.

'doba, the only difference between your outer ring of Sequoia is mine is banked at eight to ten degrees. Throw two CD cases under the outer edge and tape down the inner edge and you'll have it. It's amazing how much even that small amount of banking affects the cars.

Since my kids are far flung these days (Sarah is in the Bay Area, Yoshi is way across the county) and we all use the same 'net card not everyone can get online at the same time. Sarah is right about opening up more choices and I'd go for that. We can even make it the "Hobby Stock" of two classes, the Super Stock cars using the Ultra G chassis is necessary. The use of OEM bodies for some who either are just getting into the class or can't afford anything as fancy as a DASH body (they're only $11 people) is OK, and someone could start with, say an AW GTO then get the DASH body later. But we're talking about only one aspect of the whole class here, and much is being made over the body style. Body style is secondary IMHO.

I heard back from JAG, he has the 3R wheels sets in stock, and that, for me is very important. Other than the decal sheets the wheel sets are what will be needed for this class. I ran laps with my Galaxie running "factories" and a Fairlane with "Steelies" and I'm pretty happy with how the cars handle. One has a mean green arm and hot brushes, and I have a better idea on how we will do on longer races. The tires stay cleaner than regualr silicones longer, and in a 100 lap race you would only need one stop to tape. I feel that this might be the way to go.

Hey Guys!

'Doba, nice looking track!

Wish mine was that far along scenery wise!

I want some billboards like yours!

What did you use for the pit road wall seperating pit road and the rest of the front stretch?

In regards to what Pete said about the banking, that is why I went with the Life Like track do to the outer 12" curves having the gradual banking built in already.

It is a slight banking which I like unlike the tomy/tyco banking which is kind of drastic on their banked curve types.....

Hey Pete in regards to the 3R wheels, how well do the cars run with these?

I love the look but I was cautious in buying any do to the post awhile back on HT saying they were wobbly when trying to race with them?

Can you shed some light on this?

I may pull the trigger and buy some myself for some of my t-jets if the seem to be okay when running.

Like you the tires hanging out of the back wheel wells on t-jets just arent cutting it with me in regards to the overall look of the cars.....

This will eventually have to be corrected by me since it seems we are stuck with AW cars coming this way.....

Thanks guys!

All your knowledge and help has been greatly appreciated!!!!

Take care!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I've been buying wheels from 3R directly for about 2 years and I've never got a bad set. The regular custom wheel rubber is soft but not too soft, the white letter tires are a lot softer and feel like silicone. I've never tried the narrows although Yoshi has a car that has them on it, they work OK. I like the steel wheels the most because they actually look like steel wheels. My Fairlane has Factories on it, sort of dog dish type hub caps but still with a racing look. My DASH BRG Cobra has Cobra wheels and Goodyear Polyglas white letters on it. I won the only T-Jet race at Laguna Seca and Yoshi won a handful of races in Japan with it. It's won a couple of grudge races at Sequoia as well. Of course it's an all out racer with Mean Green, JB's Thunder motor brushes and springs, polymer magnets, a longer guide pin, RT-HO RT-150 lightened gears and plated pick up shoes. It is a true $90 T-Jet to be sure.

That sounds pretty good using Diecasts . . . I may try this just to check it out for myself . . .

Do it -- You will be surprised at how well the HP7 behaves with a metal body on it. The motor has enough grunt and speed to move the body along nicely, and the weight of the body keeps the chassis solidly planted. The bar magnet is pretty weak so you really have to drive them and work the throttle. On short ovals they are a blast, really, and our group here loves them.

Hey Guys!

'Doba, nice looking track!

I want some billboards like yours!

What did you use for the pit road wall seperating pit road and the rest of the front stretch?

Thanks guys!

All your knowledge and help has been greatly appreciated!!!!

Take care!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


Thanks Wayne

The pit road wall is some 8' long trim that I have been getting at Menards thru the years -- pretty much use it for retaining walls at all my tracks. When I go to buy it I usually find it near the bathroom remodeling stuff.

It has a nice flat white front face (wall side) with a second, shorter face behind it. This is how it looks from behind on my road course:

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/Deckertring2006-019.jpg

I don't know what it's called but here is the sku / product number / bar code thing if you want to look it up:

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/Deckertring2007-_083b.jpg

My billboards are just decals that I mounted to plexiglas. The plexiglass then slides into the gap between the front wall and the shorter back wall. Nothing permanent, easy to take them down to store the track. I'll try to shoot some pics later. :thumbsup:

As much as I like the body style, I would suggest forgetting about the Dash falcon. The body is tight with stock Tjet rubber on it. I tried a set of wierd jacks wide whites and they are a no go without some serious inside trimming. Unless the tires are tapered from rim to tread some grinding of the wheel wells and the front inside the bumper is done, I doubt anything other than stock tires will do. The other thing I've noticed with the falcon is, the front tires don't line up right in the short wheelbase hole. The rim is centered when it's in the truck hole adding to the clearance issues already mentioned. I can post pic's if you would like to see what I'm talking about..

Hey 'Doba!

Thanks for the info!

Also to you Pete!

Both of you have been very helpful with answering my questions! :thumbsup:

I will have to look for that finish strip. I like the idea of putting the billboards on plexiglass and having the strip hold them in place!

Great idea!!!

Pete, I will be investing in some 3R wheels also.

I really think they make the look of the car.

Vincent wheels are nice too!

I have a '69 chevelle by Dash with some on it.

I think MEV is the only one carrying them though.....

Thanks again!

Now we can proceed with regularly scheduled programing.......

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

sorry.

Guys I would go with the 821's from 3r. The 821's are injection molded and run true without any wobbles. I have over 75 cars set up with a variety of 3r wheels and the 821's are the best, next would be the steelies. I have not had very good luck with the rest. Good luck with the new series. Oh yeah the raised white lettered tires work pretty good , I would go with a slip on silicone like Road Rage 360’s and trim them to fit the wheel.
Peace, Verb.

There's a wealth of information within this post.

I also didn't realize that many racers had the smaller bull ring tracks.

I hate to see it end.

Gonzo