Hi everybody,

this days I 'm doing some researchs on one aspect of h0 slot racing, the magnet free/magnetless (I don't know what is the correct word in english) racing.

I googleized a lot on the subject, to see the superb new competition chassis of that type (thunderstorm, gjet, slot tech panther modified, etc...) or beautiful classic/vintage "brass war" chassis (riggen, super2, tycopro)...a lot of beautiful little things...and EXPENSIVE things, especially for us in Europe, cause we have to import all that stuff from USA.

So I tried other ways to run magnetless cars :

I tried to tune tjets : I achieved some good results, especially for the speed, but I've got a lot of difficulties to make a good handling car...and after market parts are quite expensive too. Last but not least, this class of chassis is a way too sensitive with my good old parma eco 45ohm.


After that, I tried to modify tomy turbos and tyco 440x2 chassis, replacing magnets with lead weight : I did not achieve anything good that way. weight is not ideally placed, the car becomes rapidly too "fat" on the track...the handling is not precise, I don't like it at all.



But I didn't give up :

I remember the venerable tycopro design, and I thought that it looked like (a little) the tyco 440 wide pan chassis version. So I decided to make a last try, before asking my bank some extra money to buy some expensive competition (or vintage NOS) chassis...

I use a dremel to cut off the body clip fixation (because I'll use a lexan body on it, the goal is to create a "performance" magnetless racing class).

After that, I glued one lead bar on each side of the motor.


I added some weight (seems a lot on the photo, but I didn't fine tuned the car already) on the pin guide place. I also replace the contact blades with others with a thin shape (to avoid the pin guide to goo out of the slot).


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/DSCF0339.jpg



I also put the front wheels in long wheel base position, to make the car less brutal to handle. I added some silicon slip on tires.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/DSCF0338.jpg



After that very quick tuning, I tried the car (tyco track, tyco standard controller and parma eco 45ohm controller, without brake). The results : the car is really GREAT.


It's fast, faster than a good tjet or a standard magnatraction.

The handling is quite similar with the magnet version of the car : the car doesn't drift a lot, has powerfull traction. The silicon tires I used are very soft.


Finally, the car is not perfect : I think I could try other tires compound, or harder silicon ones, to make the handling limit more predictable.

I also think I could use less weight : I have to fine tune the contact blades and guide pin before, I think.

But, in one word, the car is fast, handling is quite easy, when I drive it I don't have the feeling to drive a "badly hand crafted thing" (in french, "une voiture bricolée" :lol: ) , but a real race car, that I can use in my home racing sessions.


Last but not least, the car runs perfectly under standard 18volt, and standard controller. So I save money here too.


I'll post the next stages (fine tuning, more "pro" and good looking modifications). and, of course, I 'll validate my tuning on other tyco wide pan chassis, to see if I'm just lucky, or if it's a modification how works every time.

So stay tuned ^^

very interesting idea. Great reporting too!
Nice work

thank you!

I'm very surprised of the result. Finally, there is not a big diference between magnet and non magnet handling for this chassis...I'll have to find the good compounf for the tires, to add some drifting action : it's more easy for beginners to see the "driving limit" in the corners.

Tonight I 'll try to make a video, if there is an interest for you.


bye

I've made a little video, so you can see the result. Standard tyco power supply, standard track, standard controller. AND the car I reported to you.


tyco 440x2 wide pan, running w/o magnets



ps : the thing I try to show you on the beginning of the video is my standard tyco powersupplies, one per lane (measured on multimeter, more or less 18v)...

another thing, the car is faster than that, but it's really difficult to drive AND film in the same time, so my priority was to not de-slot... :freak:

I'll try to re-do a video with a friend, so I can "push" the cars limits.

you can always build your own brass pan chassis. this is modeled after the riggen

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/GoodwrenchIntimidator3/100_0962.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/GoodwrenchIntimidator3/100_0963.jpg

wow, great brass chassis !

I think I' ll try it one day...but brass is quite difficult to find here. But you're right, it seems a natural evolution for the modeler in this hobby I guess !

best regards,

Dimitri

Dimitri,

That video was fun to watch. Nice layout man! Keep at it and great idea.

Bob...new ideas are always welcomed...zilla

thank you

I hope to start the scenery in the next weeks. ;)

thank you

I hope to start the scenery in the next weeks. ;)


Just keep posting pix as your build up progresses. Thanks! :thumbsup: rr

must be hard to use the camera and drive at the same time.

Nice video!

I think I' ll try it one day...but brass is quite difficult to find here. But you're right, it seems a natural evolution for the modeler in this hobby I guess !

best regards,

Dimitri

Piano wire hard to find??? You can always make a wire chassis like 1/24th scale cars. I have built a few of those in 1/24th an will be building an HO scale one soon

Great research demether. Thanks for the pictures. I did not see the lead on the side pans until I saw the picture that showed the sides. So you put lead on to of the front guide and both sides it looks like. The car was run on a stock power pac too. Cool. Looks like it would be a fun class to race with also.

today I made other tries :

I replaced the ultra soft silicon rear tires with some new tires, I guess silicone too, but harder. It's slightly the same texture and softness than the news soft rubber tires provided with autoworld xtractions. I hope you see what I mean.

I discovered that the tire type is really important here. With these tires, the car drifts a little more, so the car does not "jump" off the slot brutally anymore.

Other consequence : I've been able to remove some lead weight. I just kept the 2 bars on each side of the chassis. and I changed the long wheel base to the short one.

In that setup, the car runs perfectly under 18volt, fast and quite easy to drive (between a good magnatraction and a magnet car with stock hard tires, I guess). You almost can drive it without any lead weight, but the car become a bit too sensitive in corners.


But now I see the limits of this setup too : the pin guide and stock short contact blades.

The tyco car can't take large slides in the corners, because of the stock pin guide and contact blades. A tjet or magnatraction is more "sliding friendly" with a good tuning of the contact blades.

By the way, the car stills a great and challenging runner, but don't expect big drifting action with that. But the car remains stable and predictable, so you can run with that.


I think my next steps should be the construction or restauration of slide guides cars (riggen, tycopro, etc...).

check here http://www.horacepro.com/guides.html

you read in my mind, I was just reading this site, and send them an email !!!

check here http://www.horacepro.com/guides.html

Thanks for this link goodwrenchintimidator as it was a very interestin read. I need to go to bed now...oh dang.

Bob...lots of kewl stuff here...zilla

I ordered some slide guides ;) when I'll receive these, I'll give you my feedback :thumbsup:

for now I'm learning about tires, and tjets...so I can make one "big" order for hop up parts, for my tyco magnetless, and my tjets too.

The project stills alive...Today I received some spare parts, and built 5 running chassis. I received enough tubbing to mount the future lexan bodies too.

Now, I have to wait for the tires and slide guides...

I discovered antoher thing, for the weights : I don't have to heavily modify the chassis to install it...I found another way ;)

Here 's a pic of the 5 running chassis :


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0400.jpg


bye

Hi,

today I'm not working, so I didn't resist to try the new tires I 've bought for my tyco pan jet.


I mounted the tires on my "prototype" (used for experiment : the other chassis I 'll made will be a lot more clean and finished) chassis, sand the sharpe edges of it.


The tires are of the Supertires brand, diamter 0.442. Really good tires : sticky, just enough hard to not deform, and slightly thinner than standard tyco ones, but wide enough to work with the standard crown. Perfect, for me.


After that, I mounted some pickup shoes, to run the car (I didn't received my slide guides yet).

Here some photos of the current set up :

the SuperTires slightly sanded to remove sharp edges :

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/DSCF0445.jpg



The car...yes, there is no magnet, but pan style weight !

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/DSCF0441.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/DSCF0442.jpg



The lower, the better :

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/DSCF0443.jpg


The car is handling great. feelings are between a very good magna car and a standard magnet car. The car is easy to drive, except we can't go really hard in corners because of the pickup shoes. But in a global way, the car is interesting, quite different of my others cars (standard plastics cars, with and without magnets).

The only issue remaining is the electrical contact in the corners, when the car goes in big slides. The short tyco pickup shoes loose electrical supply fast, so the car can't take big angles.


Without the slide guides, I can't fine tune the weight (I think the car doesn't need so much weight, but with this pickup shoes I can't do it better), and the front end (size of wheels and tires). We'll have to wait for it to finish the car.


And some videos to see it in action. Standard tyco wall pack, standard tyco controller. Tyco track too.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/th_dscf0447.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/th_dscf0448.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/th_dscf0452.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/th_dscf0459.jpg



bye

Great to see video on H.T.:thumbsup:go0d job "DEM".:thumbsup:

thank you. I can't wait to receive my slide guides, so I can complete the cars. I already received some tubbing and pins, for body mounting. A friend of mine send me a tyco modified narrow chassis with tubbing for lexan mounting, so I can inspire myself for my own cars...it's look really great (so "pro race" :lol: ), so once I'll do it on my tyco pan jets, the result will be (in my sense) terrific!


the bodies I'll use on this chassis are visible here :

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=249105



A sample photo :

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0293-1.jpg

The first of the 4 cars I plan to build is out of factory !

First, I mounted some tubbing lexan body post :

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0499.jpg



...and painted it in mat black for a more finished look :

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0502.jpg



The other visible improvement compared to the "prototype" I built in the last pages, is the bldy clip I let in place on the sides of the chassis. So I can push in some lead weight to make fine weight tuning, without having to glue it.


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0503.jpg




You can see the great Supertires tires I used (0.442, perfect for me) too.

Now I have to do the same on the 3 others cars, finish the lexan bodies, and wait for the slide guides delivery. I'll make photos and videos of the next steps.


Bye

and wait for the slide guides delivery.

Bye

I hope you ordered the ones for plastic track, he make a couple for HO

I ordered the standard h0 track version...so I hope I 'll receive that ones :p

Hi,

I finished the "tyco pan jet" version 1.0 (:p) !

Finally, I prefered the guide pin, with modified pickup shoes.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0564.jpg



For weighting, I use this setup :

a front lead weight under the frontend

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0565.jpg



one lead bar on each side of the pan. Each bar is glued with epoxy glue. I think I should use less weight, but I wanted to make easy cars to drive in first.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0566.jpg



I painted the side bars in flat black, and the front bar has bee varnished, to not have to touch plain lead, and make a good finish.


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0572.jpg




I made 2 new videos. On the first, I try to push the car at limits, to show you the sliding action. On the second video, i'm just trying to go as fast as I can. ;)

http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/?action=view&current=dscf0578.flv


http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/?action=view&current=dscf0579.flv




The car handles great. I use standard tyco wall pack. the car stills driveable with standard parma eco 45ohm controllers too.


Now, I have to do the same for the other 3 chassis of my lexan racing class. I'll make a final topic to resume all what I 've done to create the complete race class (chassis and lexan painting).

The first car is completed, and ready to race :


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0605.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/dscf0608.jpg

I used standard tubbing/pin mouting.


bye

Fantastic work as always Dimitri! That chassis and body combo look great and I think you hit it right on the head with the way you weighted the pan chassis. It's just like we talked about before - thinking of how the 1/32 cars handled, sans magnet and with adding weight. When is the first race with these cars? Love to know how it does.

PD2:thumbsup:

First I have to prepare 3 other cars for my guests , before organize a race :p

unfortunatly, there is no other slot fan here, so I race with my friends and brother, for now.

But, I' m lucky, because the man behind racing legends french h0 resin kits should move in my aera soon ! So i'll have a "real" slot car racer to race and discuss ! :thumbsup:

Demether, it sounds like you need some of us to go on a little road (plane actually) trip to your house for some racing! How close are you to Le Mans? HUtt Tours could put together the 24 Hours of Le Mans/French HO Riverside package...

By the way, the Ford MKIV looks really great. What inspired you to model the yellow 4th place McLaren/Donohue versus the red winning Gurney/Foyt car? Was it the Gurney bump?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260389069373

Trivia question: what racing tradition was started at Le Mans and who started it?

:drunk::hat::freak::dude::tongue:

fopr location, I live here (south west of france, 1.5 hour in north of spain, 1/2 hour to atlantic ocean, 2 hours south from Bordeaux).

http://maps.google.fr/maps?hl=fr&q=dax+france&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=fr&ei=cavgSc6xJePOjAf8qeHUDQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1

you just have to de-zoom a little to see where le mans is ...quite far, in a french scale, I believe ! but you're welcome :thumbsup:

For inspiration of the car, to be honest...I choosed yellow because I had a bottle available, and planned to make a ferrari to race against. So for racing visibility, I choose diferent colors. And I knew that I would buy the gurney red MKII too... a lot of plans, in my head :freak:

Le Mans to Dax: Take the A28 to the A10 and stop in Bordeuax. Sample the local vintage - beaucoup du vin. Then take the A63 to Dax for Circuit des Demether. Tres Bien! That would be the "road trip" part of the road trip.

:drunk::hat::freak::dude:

No problem :thumbsup:

this is the last video I made of my tyco pan jet !

http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/slotdem/?action=view&current=tycojet.flv

as you can see, the car allows some drifting action and errors in corners, but great speed too. The motor magnet effect is minimal.

I used standard tyco wall pack, 60ohm aurora controller, lexan body , supertires silicones, and ski shoes. Everything else on the car is 100% stock.