Model Man:

I was not ignoring the 'cold' in CCFL's, I was voicing my concerns about what the guy at Miller Engineering said. He said the CCFL's needed venting. That's why I was worried about closing them up in nacelles.

teslabe:

Thanks for the adivce on the EL sheet, very dissapoingting, thought I had found just the ticket for a myriad of lighting situations. I was told also by M.E. I could go as high as 6v, is that too high? Will that little bit burn the EL sheet out quicker? How high a voltage did you go? It's pretty much imperative I run my models on DC. These displays would be run for short periods at best.
Can CCFL's be run off batteries? Hope so! Seems those sure would be good for saucer and secondary hull lighting.

Steve244:

When you use LED's in nacelles (if you have) did you not get 'hot spots'? Seens you would have to use a whole lot of'em and that would take a lot of DC juice (I guess). Like I told teslabe I will HAVE to us Batteries.

Now, all that said, I sure hope y'all can give me just the answers I want to hear!!! If not, just lie to me...kidding of course.

Again, thanks for your help,

Hal9001-

Model Man:
teslabe:

Thanks for the adivce on the EL sheet, very dissapoingting, thought I had found just the ticket for a myriad of lighting situations. I was told also by M.E. I could go as high as 6v, is that too high? Will that little bit burn the EL sheet out quicker? How high a voltage did you go? It's pretty much imperative I run my models on DC. These displays would be run for short periods at best.
Can CCFL's be run off batteries? Hope so! Seems those sure would be good for saucer and secondary hull lighting

hal, it's not the input voltage you need to look out for. Inverters are step-up
power supplies. They take your low voltage DC and step it up to the high voltage AC needed to drive the EL sheets. the input voltage is set by the unit and you can't go higher then stated on it's data sheet. You need to look at the output voltage and current and make sure it is within the range for your sheet. But if you run them at a higher voltage on the output "AC" side, it will be brighter and whiter but it will also get dim faster. Hope this helps.

I would have to disagree partially with the guy from Miller. I have CCFLs in my refit nacelles, without venting. Mine are not mounted in direct contact with the plastic. I have had no problems. That is not to say that venting would not be a good idea.
Can CCFLs be run off of batteries? Yes, but ... Figure that each inverter will draw between 300 and 350ma. That will eat most batteries.
I know two remedies to reduce led power consumption. A. run some in series. To be sure, if one dies the whole string goes. But if you don't abuse them leds are quite reliable. B. use higher output leds and run them at lower current. You don't want windows (for example) that look like searchlights.

I would have to disagree partially with the guy from Miller. I have CCFLs in my refit nacelles, without venting. Mine are not mounted in direct contact with the plastic. I have had no problems. That is not to say that venting would not be a good idea.
Can CCFLs be run off of batteries? Yes, but ... Figure that each inverter will draw between 300 and 350ma. That will eat most batteries.
I know two remedies to reduce led power consumption. A. run some in series. To be sure, if one dies the whole string goes. But if you don't abuse them leds are quite reliable. B. use higher output leds and run them at lower current. You don't want windows (for example) that look like searchlights.

I'm glad to hear about your luck with CCFL's and nacelles. Too bad for me they won't work well with DC! Figures!! When you say "will eat batteries", is that because of start up or because of any lingth in duration? My first project is going to be the AMT Reliant. The DLM blue resin enigne parts are about 8" long and I want a smooth constant [bright] light. But I also have the PL 1/350 NCC-1701-A as well, among others. Trying to collate here and patch together some sort of lighting plan. By "patch" I mean I know nothing about electronics. I may go about it some asinine way but I'll eventually put some kinda plan in action from the info I get from you guys. Either way it ain't gonna be pretty... but as long as it works!

There's really no need to excessively worry about heat build up in the nacelles.

Some of the better rechargeable AA batts have 2500mA. I think that's rated in hours. So if the CCFL's use 500mA each, that's 1000mA, or about two hours before the batt's are flatlined. That doesn't include other electronics.

LEDs usually run in the 20mA range each, so 20 leds @ 20mA each is only 400mA. You've got some breathing room. I've never seen stats for the CCFL's, but they must be out there somewhere. Those will give you the real math needed.

I'm youtubing some vid now specifically covering CCFL's in the 350 refit nacelle (and for the M.Falcon engine). You can see how bright they are and how well they fit. It should be uploaded by the morning. I'll post a link.

G'day Hal9001.

I am using two 5mm blue leds mounted in a clear acrylic tube for my nacells. I got around the hot spot by using several light coats of clear flat brushed over the tubes concentrating on the ends with the leds and featherd out to the middle
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg27/AJ-1701/Refit%20Enterprise/Picture27.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg27/AJ-1701/Refit%20Enterprise/Picture071.jpg

Cheers,

Alec. :wave:

G'day Hal9001.

I am using two 5mm blue leds mounted in a clear acrylic tube for my nacells. I got around the hot spot by using several light coats of clear flat brushed over the tubes concentrating on the ends with the leds and featherd out to the middle
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg27/AJ-1701/Refit%20Enterprise/Picture27.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg27/AJ-1701/Refit%20Enterprise/Picture071.jpg

Cheers,

Alec. :wave:

That looks great Alec, got any other shots of the lighted nacelles? Too, how did you light the secondary hull as well as the saucer section? Thanks for your ideas! One last thing, you using AC or DC?

I will be running it all of a 9v - 1.6amp power plug pack simply because all the leds and the flasher board will draw a fair wack of currant.

I only started the saucer on the w/e but you could check out my wip. (shameless self promoting) :p

Cheers,

Alec. :wave:

Where's a link, Alec?

PS. Here's some youtubing of the CCFL's in action
CCFL in the Falcon's engines: 6 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC1pX...e=channel_page

CCFL in the 350 Refit Nacelle 8 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbEglsTU7oA

CCFL, leds, EL Ribbon-wire and sheet in one hodgepodge together 5 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lyaF...e=channel_page


For the nacelles, skip about 5 mins in on that second one for the blue. It starts w/ UV which is more correct for the TMP, rather than what followed.

These are also cross-posted under the EL wire thread I started for coverage.

I will be running it all of a 9v - 1.6amp power plug pack simply because all the leds and the flasher board will draw a fair wack of currant.

I only started the saucer on the w/e but you could check out my wip. (shameless self promoting) :p

Cheers,

Alec. :wave:



Alec,

My ignorance in electronics covers computers as well I'm ashamed to say. So what do you mean check out your wip? I would love to see what you've done. Heck, I don't even get what you mean by w/e. Head hung loooow with shame:(

Thanks, Hal9000's lesser known brother, '1'

nacelle? what's a nacelle? you probably meant to say fusion core...

Hey Hal,
here's a basic numbers idea that will permeate all of your electronics work.
Volts (v) and milliamps (mA).

Volts are what you need to fire your lighting up in the first place.
mA is what you need to run it over time.

Volts
Each led, ccfl and EL product have different stats, so let's use an average LED and let's say that average LED needs 3v to fire. So if you give it 1v or 2v, it probably won't light up. If it does, it will be dimmer than it should be, but will live a lot longer. 4v will light it up, but you are overdriving it at that point. It will burn brighter and die younger.

If you give that 3v led 12v of juice, it will pop and maybe smoke. This is what resistors are for. So a 12v resistor on a 3v led means the juice is getting knocked down to safe levels. There are a few ways to wire resistors in to your circuit, but that is later-knowledge. Suffice it to say that 1 resistor to 1 led is the safe approach for now.

You can safely wire 3v leds into a 12v power supply without resistors, but you would need to wire 4, 3v leds directly to each other. 3x4=12. If you wanted them dimmer and longer life, you can try wiring 5 into the circuit. If they don't light, then drop one.

mA
Each led also consumes power while it is on. This is expressed in milliamps. I think that is rated in hours as I mentiend before. A typical led needs ~20mA, so if you have a 400mA Power Source (battery or wall), then you can run 20 leds @ 20mA as your theoretical max. You want to factor in some overhead though, about 10-20% for breathing room.

So a 3v, 500mA power supply can easily run 20 avg. leds w/o resistors. A 12v, 500mA power supply will run the same amount, but requires resistors.

You can use any battery combo you want (AA=1.5v, 9v=9v and so on) As long as you have the volts to fire the leds (a pair of AA will usually do it), then you want to know the mA for the lifetime draw. You won't find too many batteries these days with under 1000mA.

All this works the same for EL and CCFL too. The inverters that they come with take your standard juice and rev it up to unbelievable heights, bu the mA draw remains the same. The CCFL I'm using draw 5mA each. Nice!!! Using that 12v, 500mA power supply example means I could run about 100 CCFLs on that one power supply. Amazing.

There are basic led charts that are easily found with some searching. I don't have any links onhand.

I appreciate all forms of scrutiny to my math and will correct any errors post-haste.

nacelle? what's a nacelle? you probably meant to say fusion core...


Nope, meant nacelles...

sigh... trekies. :)

I'd have to experiment with those tube thingies. The last enterprise I built was circa 1971 and only had grain-o-wheat bulbs under the green lens thingies.

But I suspect just 2 ultra-bright white LEDs at either end pointing towards the center, with flat white paint on the inside of the tube to avoid shiny spots would go a long way.... maybe sand the led lens a bit to diffuse the light some more.

I'd also want to try UV leds just to see how it looks...

ooo oo I almost forgot I did one of these. alas... no lights...

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/t/steveplj2/newent/e6.jpg

Most of the readers here already know that by saying "eats batteries" I mean that it will use up a lot of them.
CCFLs do have one peculiarity that I have seen. If you leave them off for an extended period (weeks or months, not days or hours) they are dim when they first start up again. They will brighten up soon afterwards, though.

Alec,

My ignorance in electronics covers computers as well I'm ashamed to say. So what do you mean check out your wip? I would love to see what you've done. Heck, I don't even get what you mean by w/e. Head hung loooow with shame:(

Thanks, Hal9000's lesser known brother, '1'

Bugger... Sorry mate.:o

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=237981

I am using all leds a mix of 5mm and 3mm bright whites and blues. Any other colours I am painting them to the colour I want. Each led has its own resistor so it'll all be in paralell along with the flasher pcb I got from VooDooFx.

The big thing is just take it slow and plan it out and if you are a novice in electronics like me test out each piece as its done then test the whole wire assembly again before any parts are glued up.

Good luck with the project.

Cheers,

Alec. :wave:

Most of the readers here already know that by saying "eats batteries" I mean that it will use up a lot of them.
CCFLs do have one peculiarity that I have seen. If you leave them off for an extended period (weeks or months, not days or hours) they are dim when they first start up again. They will brighten up soon afterwards, though.

I suppose I didn't state my question very well. "eating batteries" is pretty much self explanitory so I didn't mean to ask a dumb question. Not having a clue as to what I'm doing when it come to electronics I suppose I was just wondering what to expect by having to use DC. Will CCFL's only last 10 mins., 30 mins. an hr. run by them selves? I just have no idea. I see becasue of my ignorance I'll have to run lights for different parts of the ship off different battery packs, and yes I know that means several switches. But that seems the logical thing to do to get any time out of DC's. Does that make any sense?

Thanks for the info on slow start up with inactive CCFL's, that's good to know.

Hal9001-

I suppose I didn't state my question very well. "eating batteries" is pretty much self explanitory so I didn't mean to ask a dumb question. Not having a clue as to what I'm doing when it come to electronics I suppose I was just wondering what to expect by having to use DC. Will CCFL's only last 10 mins., 30 mins. an hr. run by them selves? I just have no idea. I see becasue of my ignorance I'll have to run lights for different parts of the ship off different battery packs, and yes I know that means several switches. But that seems the logical thing to do to get any time out of DC's. Does that make any sense?

Thanks for the info on slow start up with inactive CCFL's, that's good to know.

Hal9001-

Yeah thats why I just went with all leds resisted to 9v in parallel so it will all run off the plug pack I eventually got for it. It was just getting to complicated for me to have a flasher circuit at one voltage range, leds at the same or highr and then running the ccfls (which do look good in the pics I've seen:)) and having some where to mount and hide all the inverters, wiring etc etc :drunk: For me its K.I.S.S where ever possable.

Oh and w/e is short for week-end :)

Cheers,

Alec. :wave: