Hi guys
:wave:

MW,
I have no problem taking anything apart if I want it in a different color.
Here's your dilemma as stated,
Does possession of this rare piece mean more in its original form or would your own Customized version be personally preferrable.

Can you perform a clean enough job on it including replacement of lettering and detail for it to satisfy your vision of what it should be?

If you are not concerned with any monetary value it has in original form then I say straight to the stripper.

After all, what is most important in having these little cars is the individual ways they each remind us of a particular place and time in our lives.

--CadillacPat the UnCustomizer--
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/CadillacPat/BulletProofWebcopy.jpg

Tough decision...Wish it were all beat up. The wheels on it absolutely SUCK! I might try changing them before stripping it down. That way you could keep the stock ones and not devalue the casting...that much. IF IT WERE ME...Since you asked...If I were going to paint it black I'd seperate the roof and do what fill work had to be done to make a detachable hard-top. I'd also go to the trouble of carefully...I repeat carefully...back grinding the vent work the open it with a sharp Xacto. Check out the Ferrari 250 GTO WIP thread if you don't know what I'm talking about. However, though I know form where you speak about using original colors; the color doesen't bother me bad enough to change it. Its those fugly-ugly wheels that make it look bad.

Personally, I wouldn't touch it unless it was damaged or just beat up from years of play.

i was wondering...can you cast it with out damaging it??
can you find another one beat up..?
i think i would look this over before customizing it.
who knows this might be the last one around. i think i would do a lil reserch before i did anything. but thats me..

I say find someone with a beater and do a trade plus some moola. In the end you get your custom and some cash in the pocket. Tomicas are high end dollars as it is and a rare one could bring in a lot of dough.

Define a lot...:p I've made trades like that. Have one that's just too nice to cut. Trade down with some to boot.

na. i wouldn't trade it. but look or make another one.

I'd personally leave it as is esp if it's really as rare as you think it is. If you find out later that it's not as unique as you believe it is, then you could go ahead and go the custom route. Once you strip the casting though, their is no turning back.

I had a Redline Hot Wheels casting that I sought for over 5 years and finally found one for a custom. I ended up paying more than others might have paid for it. I decided to trade it to another collector or collects police cruisers for some customizing JL kits. I think it worked out best for both of us. I'm still looking for another casting to do a custom, but at least I got some value out of it in return.

na. i wouldn't trade it. but look or make another one.
Right answer! Keep the one you have as-is, and make your own from some current 99 cent HW's(or whatever's cheap in your neighborhood.) :thumbsup:

Sounds like you need to have two of them ;)

Enjoy the good condition one you have and when you find the second one, just redo that one. Plus it's always nice to have something to chase after.

Oh no no no no no. Don't do it. They rarely come up and when they do they are not cheap.

You'll always have mixed feelings about redoing a collectible, whatever it's condition. But if you make your own, it's all positive.

this car is bugging me. it looks like a fish and chips car hw made and also has the lines of a thunder bird. and alil stude in it also.

Should corner well. If it can be steered, that is.

:thumbsup: Thanks guys- I appreciate your time and thoughts on this !!

A Real mixture of different opinions !! And guess what- I still don't know what I'll do............................
Looking more like I'll hang on to it though, and just keep lookin' for a loose one I can chop.

Big thanx to All :wave:

this car is bugging me. it looks like a fish and chips car hw made and also has the lines of a thunder bird. and alil stude in it also.

I agree. All my Fish 'n Chips are put away, but looking at the '63 T-bird, it looks like an excellent candidate. Metal chassis, too.

Thanks toyroy- I'll have a look at one and see whats what.
I think I'm edging more to this idea now as I've spent ages looking for a rough/loose one, but they never seem to come up in a played with condition :(

If I do decide to make my own replica it'd have to be my own pattern 100% and then cast one from it, but for me the fun and challenge of doing that is for cars where theres never been a diecast of it. I've only ever made a few unique patterns and molds for cars that hadn't been modelled by the big manufacturers. Coming up with my own pattern and casting when I've already got the Tomica seems pointless in terms of time and money- It'd take me about 3 months to make the pattern and molds and end up costing more than the Tomica is worth :eek:

Gunn wondered if I could make a mold to cast from the Tomica, which seems a logical idea but the Tomica would still have to come apart to do it properly, and it would of course then be a direct copy of the Tomiica casting :drunk:

I'll sit it out a bit longer and think it over, but I think I might end up having a go at my own

Really appreciate your views and ideas on this guys. HT is the BEST :D

Bye 4 Now :wave:

...If I do decide to make my own replica it'd have to be my own pattern 100% and then cast one from it, but for me the fun and challenge of doing that is for cars where theres never been a diecast of it...
What I was suggesting is a one-off model, using parts from several common, easy-to-find castings. Specifically, the body of the HW '63 T-bird, and the front from the MB Firebird. Perhaps you've done this enough, that the prospect is no longer of interest. If patternmaking and die sinking are just as easy for you, then never mind! :o

I understand what you mean toyroy :) -And realise it's probably what most customizers would do, It's just that it's not the way that I use on one-off models.
I discovered long ago that using diecast body shells to create a one-off always seemed the quickest way but ended up more work than fabricating from scratch- The final finishing stages always meant taking off more here and there than first thought, which often meant building wafer thin areas back up again where thin epoxy metal was against the diecast alloy or in shallow recesses etc. Hope this makes sense !! It's certainly the way I found it.

I understand and can see your point with using the HWs and M/Box castings for the Panther 6, but when I look closely at the Panther and donor castings I know from past experience that getting those contours exact around the front, sides and especially around the back and over the engine bay will mean taking off so much of the castings and tricky areas over metal epoxy joins etc that it's better to start from scratch.

The last big learning ground for me with this approach was with the pattern for the 'I- Robot' car. Spend a week studying it from every concievable angle and then do the same with an Audi R8 and you'll see what I mean !!!
At first it was a case of 'It's practically an R8 with covered 'ball' wheels !!' but after about 3 weeks of painstaking modification through alloy, plastic, brass and metal epoxy the differences were all too clear !!

Starting a Pattern from scratch means you can plan out and start construction for the shape of the car right from the chassis up- Plus the BIG thing for me is that the finished concoction of diecast, metal epoxy, plastic, aluminium etc is not what's it's all about. it HAS to be metal !!! That's why I've then molded and cast to end up with that shiny metal casting !!!
The mixture of materials is great for the pattern but not what I want in the finished model. That's just me though- It's what I want out of the hobby and what does it for me-

I can see and appreciate our hobby from all sides though, and fully understand why so many others do things differently- thats the amazing appeal of a hobby like this. I enjoy seeing the variations of methods and the different approaches that we all use to do what we enjoy.

The big thing is to have :)FUN :) doing what we do, and what does it for me probably isn't going to do it for everyone else- and it works the other way round too !!!

Thanks for your views and ideas- I DO appreciate them-

HAPPY Customizing !! :wave:

...I discovered long ago that using diecast body shells to create a one-off always seemed the quickest way but ended up more work than fabricating from scratch...Starting a Pattern from scratch means you can plan out and start construction for the shape of the car right from the chassis up- Plus the BIG thing for me is that the finished concoction of diecast, metal epoxy, plastic, aluminium etc is not what's it's all about. it HAS to be metal !!! That's why I've then molded and cast to end up with that shiny metal casting...
MetalWizard2000,

Thanks much, for your thoughtful reply. When you say "from scratch", what patternmaking and casting process are you using? I'm so behind-the-times that I'm thinking investment casting for a one-off model. And what metal are you casting your finished cars from?

Hi again :wave:

The casting method I've used is simple hand/gravity casting using RTV silicon rubber molds. This is a sort of iron-filled 'super' rubber which handles the temperatures of white metal alloys very well. The real beauty of it though is that unlike the older vulcanised rubber mold process it is simply mixed with a catalyst and then poured in to create the parts of the mold.

Because I use this process it dictates the construction of the pattern to a degree- which means I simplify construction as much as possible to eliminate recesses and undercut etc. So, I build the patterns upwards using an inverted channel section for the base chassis. This has slots milled in ready for the axles and I build the body up from there using brass, aluminium and metal epoxy depending on the model. Where I've had to fabricate 'lips' or 'flares' for wheel arches etc I always use brass and then solder the parts, but where no soldering or brazing is needed I favour FMA aluminium for ease of cutting and filing. I try and keep the underside of the pattern as hollow as possible as the top bodyshell and central 'bar' formed by the channel chassis means a lot of weight- lots of metal and lots of money !!!!

The bad news bit is that the RTV compound costs a fortune and has a very limited shelf-life. The white metal alloys are also all very expensive. They vary considerably with their characteristics and applications and different castings need different alloys. I ended up experimenting with a few to find which ones worked for my castings.

I haven't done any casting for a while now- It's great fun and very rewarding for your efforts but does get expensive and I found I was progressing the cars to get them better and better and the cost started to get a bit out of hand !!! As a result I've got patterns finished for about 4 or 5 cars but most of them ended up on hold.

Hope this helps

Bye For Now :wave:

The casting method I've used is simple hand/gravity casting using RTV silicon rubber molds...
Hi MetalMaster2000,

Yes, I'm familiar with RTV- although I've not used it personally. I have more direct experience with sand casting and investment casting- the latter using centrifugal means. Of the two, the lost-wax method gives a finer finish, of course.

I'm thinking one could use a 3D printer to make finished wax patterns for one-off castings. Alternatively, a plastic master "print" could be made, to make a permanent mold for wax patterns. Whaddaya think?

Ok, some dumb advice. Do you plan on re-selling it? If not, its yours. Do with it what ever makes you happy with it. :wave:

Toyroy- You're experienced in Investment/Lost wax casting- WOW !!
Thats serious stuff- what I've done is as basic as can be, in fact the pattern making of the car is by far the challenging bit !! Theres none of the tricky stuff like vulcanizing the mold, 'tree' building, wax injecting etc with RTV silicon molds/Low melt alloys it's very simplified. If you get into it it'll be a walk in the park for ya' !!
Happy casting :D

Back to the Tomica P6- I think Its gotta be a keep it as it is job

It's not ridiculously valuable like some early stuff, as it was a normal run model, but like I say they rarely come up for sale whereas I have seen quite a few requests on message boards and evil bay asking out for one, so demand always seems greater than supply.

Guess I'll just have to get used to the ridiculous paint and tampos and display
it with the wheels covered over- 'cause they are bad-Real Bad :freak:

Thanks again guys for all your views and ideas- I appreciate them all

Bye 4 Now :wave:

Toyroy- You're experienced in Investment/Lost wax casting- WOW !!
Thats serious stuff- what I've done is as basic as can be, in fact the pattern making of the car is by far the challenging bit !! Theres none of the tricky stuff like vulcanizing the mold, 'tree' building, wax injecting etc with RTV silicon molds/Low melt alloys it's very simplified. If you get into it it'll be a walk in the park for ya' !!
It was part of a jewelry making class. I mention it, because of your interest in one-off and low quantity solid metal models. The patterns are wax, and the molds are plaster-of-paris- which are much cheaper than RTV. The finished castings can have a very fine finish, and be very complicated, with numerous undercuts, etc.

This kind of casting is often done by gravity. In the case of my class, they used an oil drum with a jury-rigged centrifuge welded inside. The instructor put sufficient metal bits into a crucible, melted them with a torch, and gave this ball-bearing gimballed thing a spin with his hand. Frankly, I don't remember how the plaster mold was later broken up, but that then gives you the final casting.

You can use a number of molding methods to make additional wax patterns. Even plaster. If you're casting in the scores or more, RTV pattern molds might make sense- but then they last much longer, of course, when they're only molding wax.

As for metals suitable for lost wax casting, of course you can use silver and gold. :p
And, as any model railroader can tell you, brass is often used. But I gather that certain zinc alloys, including some zamac alloys, may work. Clearly there are more choices available, compared with casting in RTV.