The 21.5 lipo class is just now getting off the ground here in cincy.. and a few questions at hand is should we run wings or just run them with the spoiler? Another question i have is what tires?? right now i have 2 pearls a white and a black. also the track here in cincy is 175 run-line so what roll-out should be a good starting point??

btw here is what the car looks like now.....

Any other suggestions??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/big_dog1893/100_1295.jpg

try @3.75 rollout

Get rid of the fan on the speed control. Run a wing...This class is pretty fast (a tick faster than 13.5 4 cell). Tire combo sounds good. If your tire sizes are correct I wouldn't run that much stagger, but that is just me...

Rollout around a 3.60 to 3.75. Really depends on the motor, but you will need to gear higher than people that are running the LRP speedo.

I have heard some people talking about being able to roll out the LRP speedos a bit higher than the novak.. whats up with that? Also about the Fan.. why take it off?? some of the guys at the track that are running the LRP said they are rolling out at about 3.60

About the stagger on my tires.my tires ended up being that size about about 12-14 rund on 17.5 4cell.What should they be at?? Im still pretty much new to the pan car thing even though ive been racing for about 6 years. this is all pretty much new stuff for me as i have always ran other classes. this is my second year with top notch pan car. my first pan car was a bolink sport 2000. this is a hell of an upgrade from that

so all in all what should the optimal tire size be?

and again anything else i need to know or do??

The fan is weight and battery draw that you do not need. The speed control will never get hot enough in 21.5 to benefit from the fan.

WINGS are for airplanes !

I run about .015 stagger in the front and .020 to .025 in the rear. Right now you have reverse stagger in the rear and too much in the front. That shows you are running left front heavy and not driving enough off the LR. Are you having trouble getting off the corner? I'm no expert , but I have spent a good bit of time on the big cars and a lot of that carries over. At least I think it does !!! Nice lookin car , I'm going to switch to lipo 21.5 too. Seems to be the growing class.
Pops

last time i ran the car(2-3 months ago). i was having a little bit of problems coming out of the corner it would feel like it was pushing way outside. i would turn in on my line and it would come out at the wall. after that i had a 4200 pack blow up about a foot out of my hand and i haven't ran the car since then.

I would start all of your tires around 2.16 or 2.17 for club racing. For big events I would start around 2.12.

The LRP speedos you gear lower than the Novaks. LRP has a lot more RPM built into them, so you have to gear them lower.

Here at the Mid-West Tri Clone, the 21.5 class is with spoiler, (1 inch max) no wing and no rear cut out. It will work! :wave:

from what i have seen here at Tri-state the cars threw the corner looks a little bit like dirt track racing sometimes their sideways and sometimes their not. When we first started talking about 21.5 the owner said it is optional to run a wing.. i myself have never ran a wing. i know BRL rules state no wings aloud. So that being said how many people are running wings and how many are not??

There were 10, 21.5 at Vinton on Sunday all were BRL rules, all 10 within 2.5 seconds ! That is what it's all about. You can get your car dialed in pretty easy but you have to think about it a little differently. You have less wieght to deal with. IT does work! :cool:

No wing will work, but if I had a choice between no wing or run a wing I would go with the wing.

The only race's that 21.5 dont run a wing is BRL. Oval Master, Snowbirds etc all run wings.

Not saying one is right or wrong, just my personal opinion that a wing is better for that speed of car.

Hi are you plan racing in BRL Race if not put a wing on it. i would shorten the car, a shorter car turns better. no fan no heat sink just a cover it will not get that hot.plus you lose all the weight it is about half weight of the speedo and its up high on the car. i run 10.5 no problems good luck big dog
Dave

:woohoo:NO WINGS!!:woohoo:

The 21.5 class on the BRL tour this year is just plain sick! Follow those rules, and that'll be the best racing you'll ever see!

Tires I run everywhere I go. BSR's of course! :thumbsup:

21.5 Lipo
LF Pearl White
LR 60/40 Pearl White/White
RF Black
RR White

Yeah Like Mark said DITCH the wing, they are for airplanes :cool:

How do wings or no wings make for better racing?

hey mark got the 4 cell speed controller and 21.5 i still need a lipo but soon.
the wing thing it opinion j-dub and rules in BRL and think jimmy got thing about planes maybe he's a pilot lol;)
big dog hasn't said much.
Dave

I never thought this would turn in to a two page discussion.. anyway im thinking about trying the first week with out a wing. and then the second week with one.. since i have never ran a wing i dont know what it will make the car feel like.. the tire situation will be taken care of. and the heatsink on the esc along with the fan will be replaced. i have a old gtb 4cell thats blown.

My 2Cents- TM Tires RF G7 LF Green RR G5 LR White. Rollout around 3.88 for the track size which is pretty close to Classic in Akron. Keep motor temp below 165 degrees. 60 weight Center with 8# spring. 40 weight in the sides with 12# springs. Straight up T-plate/Offset pod. .063 bias cut t-plate. Red springs up front. As for wings in 21.5 class I say no. It's still slow enough that you shouldn't need a wing. I know the tracks that I race at in Eastern Ohio all follow the BRL rules as for tracks in Western Pa.

I think a wing is a little bit of a crutch... if you get the car working w/o you'll be faster in the end. A wing might help you get up to speed faster.

Either way, be careful if you switch back and forth. The car will like different setup/tires and you'll drive yourself nuts.

I think a wing is a little bit of a crutch... if you get the car working w/o you'll be faster in the end. A wing might help you get up to speed faster.


In the issue of 'Better' , is it only about speed?

A wing IS a crutch, it IS a tuning tool...it does allow a car to run at HIGHER speeds while being "under control" but a car CAN go faster w/o it...if you can make it stick to the ground...but it may be very unstable in traffic, and/or hard or twitchy to drive.

So if FASTER is the only deffinition of BETTER - then for some the answer would be YES, and for others....it would be NO cause they would actually run SLOWER cause they'd be OUT OF CONTROL! hmmmmm

As a race director, I say WING THEM, cause they crash less.

As a RACER, I've always LOVED driving a spoiler car!! (As long as everyone is on a spoiler car)

right now im just trying to gather a general consensus about running a winged car vs non-winged cars. as it seems right now the non winged cars at the track are very out of control threw the corners they are either spinning out of not turning to well.. i know most part of that is chassis tuning. but would a wing help a car threw the corners??? as i have never ran a car with a wing.. i would want to get my car up and running to show the guys at the track that running wings helps out alot and would benefit them to run a wing also to make for better racing

if your rules allow a wing, run it!

if your rules allow a wing, run it!

Exactly. If you are just starting out it will help settle the car down a lot. Once you get the hang of it and the grip comes up at bigger events then you can roll with out the wing.....

Plant the rear and make it steer

if you do run a wing you must make sure it is mounted correctly
low and flat with the wing over the rear tires

I'll be the idiot without a wing in 17.5/Lipo at the birds. lol.

I wonder how a wing on the hood would work.

I'll be the idiot without a wing in 17.5/Lipo at the birds. lol.

I wonder how a wing on the hood would work.

friends dont let friends run wings!!:wave:
but they sure work good at marshalls!!!! lollollol:hat:

but they sure work good at marshalls!!!! lollollol:hat:

Yeah...if you insist on running Niftech (what were you thinking Tom?)

Alright now for the total newb question about wings and mounting them.. flat and over the tires i understand but i am on lefthander-rc.com and i see two different kinds of mounts.. which one is the better kind/easier to use-mount and run..

first is the KSG lightweight body mount..
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1331

next is the KSG Pod wing mounts
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=449

Which one is more commonly used?
and which one is better for the car??



Now for the WING itself

which one i currently have a BRP Bi-Level Super Wing (in my pit box)
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=538

should i use it or would a single level be better

Ksg wing mount is great and doesnt flex like the other and you have the right wing SRM

this is the mount http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=20&products_id=40
this is bottoms http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=81&products_id=100
the wing a buds single or bi i take bi out and take a peace plastic antenna tubing cross the top of the wing with screws. if you buy a different wing make sure the sides of wing are big that's what kind you stable thou the corner.
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=643
Dave

i got a buds bi-level wing and i have two different sets of buttons one that are buds plastic buttons and another set thats nicer aluminum ones. do you have a picture of what the your bi-level wing looks like with the antenna tube trick?? im not understanding clearly what your saying to do

Like I said earlier...boo to the whole wing thing in 21.5! :rolleyes:

But if I were to run a wing this is what I would run:

http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=37

The cars work just fine without a wing, so if a wing is a must have thing, at least go with a small one.

I'd recommend using the darkside wing mounts:

http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=40

Mark has it right: a single plane wing on a darkside mount is the way to go if the class you are running allows wings. It should be mounted pretty low, and you cheat it forward or move it rearward to control the downforce on the rear. This setup allows for the most downforce and control with the least drag.

I do not like pod mounted wing unless the track is butter smooth (and even then it's a toss up between body mounted and pod mounted). The reason being that your wing has mass, is in relatively turbulant air, and is attached directly to the rear wheels by what is essentially a spring. If oval electric is about tuning and control then the erratic nature of a pod mounted wing is out.

Spoilers allow for a more scale look, but they also cause more drag for the downforce they supply. This can slow the cars down a modest amount, and on small carpet tracks where you are off and on the gas it would not be as big an issue as it is on a wide open SS track. Spoilers also seem to be more sensitive to drafting effects than wings do.

Finally, the thing to understand is that any rear aero aid is something to be understood and tuned. If the wing or spoiler is mounted on the body then it is acting through the center spring/shock, which must be stiffer to compensate. If it's a pod mounted wing, it is acting directly on the pod and rear tires, the center spring/shock are not involved. Regardless of how it is mounted if the aero aid is exerting downward pressure behind the rear tire's contact patch it is exerting a lifting force on the nose of the car (pod mounted wings exert this lifting force through the T-Plate).

Whichever you choose, it's all about balancing all of these variables...

Bob