Were proud to release info on our new 40C+ C-Max Hardcase packs.

The first 2 packs will be available by the middle of January.


Part # 3240CM 3200mAh / 7.4V / 40C+

Retail: 132.00 Street Price 84.95

Size: L 136mm x W 46.5mm x H 20.5mm

Top exiting wire Black colored hardcase with 12 gauge wires and Deans connector.




Part # 5240CM 5000mAh / 7.4V / 40C+

Retail: 192.00 Street Price 124.95

Size: L 138.5mm x W 46.5mm x H 24.5mm

Top exiting wire Black colored hardcase with 12 gauge wires and Deans connector.





Were confident that our new 40C+ series will offer the best possible performance. Early tests shows that the IR of these new packs is 15% to 20% better than our closest competitors packs.

Here are numbers on four 5000 sample packs we received this week. Actual production packs will have a bit better runtime as were going with a slightly bigger case/cell to help capacity.

All packs were charged at 2C on a Hyperion Duo Balance charger. Packs discharged on a T35GFX/Lipo at 35 amps. Voltage sensing leads attached on the 12 gauge wires were the female Deans is soldered. Pack and room temp was 72 degrees.


#1 505 - 7.43 - 5.7

#2 507 - 7.45 - 5.1

#3 512 - 7.45 - 5.5

#4 510 - 7.44 - 5.5

:thumbsup:

Now we have a place for talking about the new packs without having to read 4 pages of complaints. I will post the info of test results as they become available on this thread.

Here is a test report on one of the 4 cell packs we got in. This was tested at 360 Raceway in a onroad Sedan on carpet with foam.

I got a chance to run the new 40c pack. Since I really don't have any experience running two different lipo packs back to back I wasn't sure what the difference would be going to a higher C rate only. I did cycle the pack out on a GFX when I got it to compare to the 28C I have been running. Here are the numbers:

I used a friends GFX since mine is not updated for Lipo yet. He has it setup so that his leads all go to his Deans connector, meaning the main voltage leads and the small voltage sensing leads as well. I would assume with the voltage sensing leads going directly to the battery the numbers I got would be better for both packs? These cycles were done at 100dg.

my 28c
Runtime 510
Ave. v. 7.49
IR 4.6

new 40C
Runtime 513
Ave. V. 7.56
IR 3.2

I will try to get cycle numbers again with the voltage sensing leads hooked up the proper way.

Anyways from the cycle I'm thinking its not that big a deal going from the 28C to the 40C. I was wrong.

My plan was to run my 28C, then take the car off and recharge and then run again. Then, do the same with the 40C, so that both packs had a rerun on them as from what I've seen these lipo's always seem to run a lil better the more you run them in a day, and it would be a comparable test.

I got my runs done with the 28C so I had a good baseline. 9.1 hot lap with alot of 9.2's and 9.3's. This was on the 2nd run of the pack.

Then I put the 40C pack in to make its first run. 9.0 hotlap with a ton of 9.1's and a few 9.2's. Finished with a 9.1. It was a noticable difference, sort of like going up 2 teeth if you were undergeared. Rip from corner to corner was noticably better as well as top speed (which to me doesnt make much sense cause voltage its pretty close)

Now I am thinking man this is going to be really good on its 2nd run..and then I looked at the clock and had to leave..LOL. So i never got to do the 2nd run.

I'm going to try to do this test all over again either today or tomorrow if I have time, but the pack def. shows serious potential being it was better than my 28c pack even on its first and only run of the day.

All runs were done with the packs NOT heated. I never heat my packs and really only did it on the cycles cause A) the guy who's charger I was using had a lipo sack with the heater setup in it already B) Seems to be when people do cycle packs they heat them.

Well I hope this helps a lil if people were wondering about the new packs. Like I said I'll try to have more info up here either today or tomorrow.

-Donny Lia

Hope your making lots!

complain, complain, complain, ooops wrong thread, lol. Kidding. I wanted to ask a question related to performance of the packs (c rating). With the relatively low amp draw of the 21.5 motor will you even be able to tell the difference between a 28C and a 40C rating in batteries both rated @ 3200 mah?

complain, complain, complain, ooops wrong thread, lol. Kidding. I wanted to ask a question related to performance of the packs (c rating). With the relatively low amp draw of the 21.5 motor will you even be able to tell the difference between a 28C and a 40C rating in batteries both rated @ 3200 mah?


That will be determined on the track. The theory of a better pack with higher C rate should make it faster but the track will be the real test. RC cars don't pull enough amps to see a Lipos true potential. Like I said in the other thread we rely on Helicopter test guys to test Lipos as in 3D they see a difference between different C rates.

From the track testing I have seen on a 175' flat carpet oval the difference is about .05 per lap from 28c to 40c which is about half of the difference between a 20c and the 28c(.10 per lap) so you can see the higher you go the less difference it makes but I will take the .05 per lap any day.

I would assume that the C rate is related to IR. So the higher the C rate the lower the IR correct?

If the IR is lower you should be faster on tracks that require throttle control or that are narrow. On a velo track I dont know if you would see the diff?

So even for a snowbirds style track where the car "boggs" down in the corner you will see a diff.

I would assume that the C rate is related to IR. So the higher the C rate the lower the IR correct?

If the IR is lower you should be faster on tracks that require throttle control or that are narrow. On a velo track I dont know if you would see the diff?

So even for a snowbirds style track where the car "boggs" down in the corner you will see a diff.

Actually IR on the GFX isn't much better than our 28C and 24C packs. I think it has more to do with burst power. Which is the ability of the pack to deliver it's power quickly and recover from higher amp loads. I hope that my new testing equipment will allow me to get better info on the different packs.

looks like SMC has a handle on the lipo game! thanks for keeping us posted as to whats go'n on in the battery world Danny! :thumbsup:

For what its worth On our 130ft track I havent been able to tell a difference between the 5000/28C and the 5200/24C pack SMC came out with. Havent ran it anywhere else so it may not make as much of a diff on the smaller track. Definately sounds like the 40C pack will be the pack to have though.

Thanks for the info Danny! Also nice to read 10 posts for useful info instead of 9 pages of complaining.

.....

Your The King Danny! Just in time for the new year. Will you have single cell 40c packs soon?

Your The King Danny! Just in time for the new year. Will you have single cell 40c packs soon?

No need to change the 1 cell Lipo as were the only game in town. Once we see what our competitors release we will adapt. The engineers seem to think 4600/40C+ is possible in the current case.

.....

Yes capacity and mAh have an effect on each other. To increase C rate you decrease mAh. The latest chemical breakthrough has allowed the increase of C rate while not dropping the capacity as much.

When should we " the normal consumer" expect to see these hit the shelves? Got any samples of 3200's, or trade for $$$ :wave: Could use some extra juice for the hangover race at Classic hobbies.

We hope to get them in by the middle of January and the latest would be at the Snowbirds. Will have samples by the end of next week so I will sell one to the highest bidder. Just joking samples will be used for my personal testing.

Heres are some test results some may like to see on our new 5000/40C+ cells. I asked our supplier test and show me the results of the cells used in our new packs. These are 2500 cells so our new 5000 will be 2S/2P. He couldn't test the cells in parallel as he doesn't have equipment that will allow him to test at 200 amps. He tells me that the results would be very similar using 2 cells in paralell.

We also sent him our competitors 40C/5000 pack so we can see what they are offering. I already have results from the GFX but I wanted to see what the cells were like at 40C.

I must say the cells they use are good but I was a bit surprised by the results as they claim there cells stayed at 90% at full C rate discharge and we see that they are at 84%. Our cells stayed at 91% and 90% is the standard we use to get our C rate. Many manufacturers use 80% so we will have them test our cells at 45C and possibly 50C to try and determine the C rate at 80%.

Danny, is there more to these charts? Both only show discharging to 2000 mAHr, or 80% of the 2500 mAHr cell.

Didn't notice there was part of it missing. will try to fix this.

The info I got from our supplier is put in an excel file. I had someone convert it into jpeg as I can't post excel files. Seems like the last part is missing.

If someone knows how to take the info from excel and make it into jpeg I can send them the files and they can get me th jpeg. I called my friend who did this but he's not around.

I put the data in word.

Here are the graphs from the testig equipment.

Here is a graph of the 2 cells.

Are the new packs ROAR approved?

Are the new packs ROAR approved?

no worries, Wally.... Baker and I approved them so they're good to go :wave:

Danny-

Does the discharge rate have any effect on the charge rate?
i.e. (The higher the discharge rate the higher the amp rate pack can be charged at.)
Is balancing really necessary for guys like me who only use the packs for oval racing? (4-5 minute heats & mains)
Seems like I'm only using 1500-1800mah per run so I'm not sure what balancing is accomplishing.
Merry Christmas.: :)

Danny-

Does the discharge rate have any effect on the charge rate?
i.e. (The higher the discharge rate the higher the amp rate pack can be charged at.)
Is balancing really necessary for guys like me who only use the packs for oval racing? (4-5 minute heats & mains)
Seems like I'm only using 1500-1800mah per run so I'm not sure what balancing is accomplishing.
Merry Christmas.: :)

Hi Rich the dicharge rate does not effect the charge rate.I am pretty sure you can charge smc's at 2c.As for the balancer I have found it has more to do with what charger you use than the application you run them in.My father charge's his lipo on an Ice charger without a balancer and at the end of the race night cell 1 is most of the time in need of balancing.I charged my lipo on my 610c for a month before I got a balancer when I finally got the balancer and used it I found the pack was still perfectly balanced.Most manufacturers tell you to balance at least every 10 cycles I think that is a good tip.Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny you don't have any plans on upping the C rating on the 1C lipo do you. I just bought one buddy.

I was looking at the data, and I noticed that the temp of the pack was pretty much 21 degrees for the full 1:18/1:22 respectively for the non-smc and the smc packs. Was the temp sensor working on their equipment? You were discharging the packs at 100A (or 40C) and the temperature hovered around 21 degrees. Now, I've never discharged a pack at 100A before, but I have just begun cycling my lipos and at only 30A (approximately 10C) the pack gets noticeably warmer. Just curious.

Thanks,
Chuck

Hey guys I don't want to appear stupid or anything. but I'm using a GFX to charge and discharge my lipos. After discharge I check the readings in DAT mode. Where do I find the IR rating? I get mah, mwh, DCG Time, DCG AVG V, and AIR. How do I find the Internal Resistance.

Hey guys I don't want to appear stupid or anything. but I'm using a GFX to charge and discharge my lipos. After discharge I check the readings in DAT mode. Where do I find the IR rating? I get mah, mwh, DCG Time, DCG AVG V, and AIR. How do I find the Internal Resistance.

Ah.... AIR is actual internal resistance

Thanks Stratus!

Merry Christmas DANNY!!!

Danny-

Does the discharge rate have any effect on the charge rate?
i.e. (The higher the discharge rate the higher the amp rate pack can be charged at.)
Is balancing really necessary for guys like me who only use the packs for oval racing? (4-5 minute heats & mains)
Seems like I'm only using 1500-1800mah per run so I'm not sure what balancing is accomplishing.
Merry Christmas.: :)

Sorry guys for the late replies I have been pretty busy and I don't seem to be getting notifications when a thread has activity.

Our packs will safely do 2C without hurting cycle life.

As far as balance charge goes my opinion is that if a pack needs it will help and if it doesn't it will not hurt it. I know many who don't balance charge and there packs are o.k..

Danny you don't have any plans on upping the C rating on the 1C lipo do you. I just bought one buddy.


Yes we do plan on improving the capacity and C rate of the single cell Lipo. There is plenty of room left inside the case to do so.

As with our 3200/28C pack we can make the single cell 4000/25C a spec pack and keep it the same for 2 years or more.

I was looking at the data, and I noticed that the temp of the pack was pretty much 21 degrees for the full 1:18/1:22 respectively for the non-smc and the smc packs. Was the temp sensor working on their equipment? You were discharging the packs at 100A (or 40C) and the temperature hovered around 21 degrees. Now, I've never discharged a pack at 100A before, but I have just begun cycling my lipos and at only 30A (approximately 10C) the pack gets noticeably warmer. Just curious.

Thanks,
Chuck


That was the room temp as the equipment doesn't measure temp.

Temp is measured with a probe and seperate tester.

When we start posting more info about our Lipos I will have all the details listed. The graphs and info I posted was to show C rates.

.....

That was the room temp as the equipment doesn't measure temp.

Temp is measured with a probe and seperate tester.

When we start posting more info about our Lipos I will have all the details listed. The graphs and info I posted was to show C rates.

Thanks for the reply.

Chuck

I'm pleased to announce that our 40C+ 5000 production pack will actually be a 5200. We also adjusted the price a little as we ordered a huge shipment of packs which allows us to set a bit lower pricing. You can look at my first post the retails and street price are changed.

so far i have really been enjoying the 3200's you have
will they be roar legal or are they already?
and i hope you will have plenty with the birds this close.

Yes we do plan on improving the capacity and C rate of the single cell Lipo. There is plenty of room left inside the case to do so.

As with our 3200/28C pack we can make the single cell 4000/25C a spec pack and keep it the same for 2 years or more.

We are planning to adopt the single cell 25c 4000 for our spec class so we are hoping to have these available for the year 2009 at least. All of our racers have purchased one already, so we will need some available as replacements should one get damaged. You are specing the current 25 c 4000 single cell, and the 3200 28c is that correct?

Roar Approval By Today?

I must say the cells they use are good but I was a bit surprised by the results as they claim there cells stayed at 90% at full C rate discharge and we see that they are at 84%. Our cells stayed at 91% and 90% is the standard we use to get our C rate. Many manufacturers use 80% so we will have them test our cells at 45C and possibly 50C to try and determine the C rate at 80%.
I'm pleased to announce that our 40C+ 5000 production pack will actually be a 5200. We also adjusted the price a little as we ordered a huge shipment of packs which allows us to set a bit lower pricing. You can look at my first post the retails and street price are changed.
Danny,
I was looking at the data again in light of the 2600mah capacity, it looks like the new SMC packs are at 87% capacity at full C rate discharge and the competition is at 84% at full C rate discharge. Is that about right?

Thanks,
Chuck

Where can I purchase a SMC 1c LiPo?
Is the "new and Improved" 1c available yet?

so far i have really been enjoying the 3200's you have
will they be roar legal or are they already?
and i hope you will have plenty with the birds this close.


Packs are submitted to ROAR and we will have them at the Snowbirds.

We are planning to adopt the single cell 25c 4000 for our spec class so we are hoping to have these available for the year 2009 at least. All of our racers have purchased one already, so we will need some available as replacements should one get damaged. You are specing the current 25 c 4000 single cell, and the 3200 28c is that correct?


I already gave my word on the 3200/28C to Sonny(BRL) and Rob (Dirt Sanctioning Body) so were all set with the 3200.

For the single cell we will need tracks/racers to let us know as we still need to get a minimum amount of packs produced to ge a shipment. So we need to make sure tracks are onboard with this.

Roar Approval By Today?

For ROAR approval they needed to be at the ROAR lab by December 31st. From what I understand the lab has allot of packs that have shown up around the deadline so it will take a few weeks to get the saftey tests done and info posted.