a guy at our local track who back in the 19 turn days was a front runner.

he quit racing for awhile because he didn't like brushless motors

now he is back racing brushless 21.5 and lipo...he did well the first couple weeks until a local hot shoe entered the class..the last few weeks he has been 2 laps off the pace as well as the rest of the field.

so this past sunday he decides he will stick a 17.5 motor in his car and not tell anyone until the race is over..needless to say he didn't go any faster.
this was a points race and he told the race director and a select few other guys what he did after the race was over...

Its not a leagal motor so he cheated. Plus its a points race.

a guy at our local track who back in the 19 turn days was a front runner.

he quit racing for awhile because he didn't like brushless motors

now he is back racing brushless 21.5 and lipo...he did well the first couple weeks until a local hot shoe entered the class..the last few weeks he has been 2 laps off the pace as well as the rest of the field.

so this past sunday he decides he will stick a 17.5 motor in his car and not tell anyone until the race is over..needless to say he didn't go any faster.
this was a points race and he told the race director and a select few other guys what he did after the race was over...

Bill,

This shouldn't be up for discussion...he cheated, plain and simple.

I think that is a pretty obvious cheat... lol The fact he wasn't any faster just makes it funny.

well, he admitted he ran something illegal, disqualify his time, don't award him points, and take his finishing position away from him....fine him $50,000 and put him and his crew chief on probation for the next 6 months.





Here's something some guys won't understand...

At our 'Local Club' races...I'd probably let this fly, IF the racer was a mid pack car...but our local racing is simply and stricly 'Racing for Fun', and if that was what it took to get a guy 'in the group' speed wise, or if that's all the guy had for a motor...

But, the second he's FASTER than the AVERAGE socalled 'LEGAL' car - he's done...and needs to conform.

FLIP THAT - in SERIES RACING, this is a NO GO! Mainly because when you decided to make events points races....or 'championship' races...they are no longer FUN races...people think they mean something more..and you have to tighten and define your rules.

we have a standing rule in florida..

if you cheat,your done for one year.

the promoter is sitting on his hands.......

...ok, but the problem with that is...

since it's believed that EVERYONE Cheats...by this time NEXT year you'll have ZERO racers.

So I probably wouldn't support the YEAR ban.

Then the banned drivers can start their own "Outlaw Series"


LOL

and the crazy thing is...they had a 4 cell 10.5 class racing that day...if your gonna test equipment at least run the 17.5 lipo in the 10.5 4 cell class.......i just do not see an excuse for this kind of behavior?

and the crazy thing is...they had a 4 cell 10.5 class racing that day...if your gonna test equipment at least run the 17.5 lipo in the 10.5 4 cell class.......i just do not see an excuse for this kind of behavior?


If that class was run/offered....I would agree with that.

Of course its cheating, why wouldn't it be??????????:confused:

Guys I need to chime in since it happened at 'my' track and at our 20 car weekly club race. Yes it was a 4 week series for fun, and it happened on the last week of the series. The driver in question bolted a 17.5 in the 2nd heat and apparently told over half the racers there he was going to do try it becuase he is moving up to the class. He failed to tell me and failed to tell Kenny until after that heat race. He told Kenny to not count that heat and he put the 21.5 back in soon as that race was done. Now I didn't know this happened until after the race. And the funny thing is not one racer at the track came to me or Kenny with a problem. During the same day we had a TQ and track record and we tore that driver down, we also checked voltage each heat and the main for the 21.5 class. This driver that ran the 17.5, ran faster in the last heat legal. There wasn't even a B-main that day. Yes a year back Florida talked about a year ban but that is all we did was talk. There didn't seem to be support of that. And I also said each case is unique and will be handled individually. Cheating to me is far worse when someone purposely deceives the track and racers to better himself, and refuses to make it known he is cheating unless he is caught. Crap on my local board got intense. Personal attacks were made. So I killed it. It is over in my book and we move on. The only issue here was it was told to us after the race, not before. I will take the blame on this. We have a good weekly race program and a good bunch of guys. I just wish you didn't live 200 miles away Kat and could race with us. Sunday's are fun and with this world we live in today I am happy to have a group still having fun and racing on the 'club' level weekly. BTW I did pull this drivers points, took away his awards, making him buy everyone a hot dog this Sunday, and making him pick up the trash in our AC pit room for a month.

what ever happened to:

"You Ain't cheating unless you get caught"

Sure this guy was shelfish and disrespectfull to the event host and fellow racers by blantly cheating and I won't vouch for him doing what he did.

Respect could be better earned from fellow racers to help setup the car to earn back 1 of the 2 laps he is off pace by than trying to fool everyone into being just as fast as the other guys. In anycase he wasn't fooling anyone, I bet his car had more off corner speed than the rest and he was the only one grabbing breaks at the end of the straight since he was not used to the speed.

I have seen the brushless swap before at a track and it was obvious that thier car was faster off the turn and breaking hard on the entry. There was no need to confront the racer, as I think they felt very guilty for even trying it.

I need to note I do not support this and agree with this. I called and talked to most everyone in that class since it got so out of hand and have had positive conversations with each of them. What happens on the internet usually is much more drama than the 'real' world.

Quote RCThunder

Guys I need to chime in since it happened at 'my' track and at our 20 car weekly club race.

Yes it was a 4 week series for fun, and it happened on the last week of the series.

The driver in question bolted a 17.5 in the 2nd heat and apparently told over half the racers there he was going to do try it becuase he is moving up to the class.

He failed to tell me and failed to tell Kenny until after that heat race. He told Kenny to not count that heat and he put the 21.5 back in soon as that race was done.

Now I didn't know this happened until after the race. And the funny thing is not one racer at the track came to me or Kenny with a problem.

During the same day we had a TQ and track record and we tore that driver down, we also checked voltage each heat and the main for the 21.5 class.

This driver that ran the 17.5, ran faster in the last heat legal. There wasn't even a B-main that day.

Yes a year back Florida talked about a year ban but that is all we did was talk. There didn't seem to be support of that. And I also said each case is unique and will be handled individually.

Cheating to me is far worse when someone purposely deceives the track and racers to better himself, and refuses to make it known he is cheating unless he is caught. Crap on my local board got intense. Personal attacks were made. So I killed it. It is over in my book and we move on.

The only issue here was it was told to us after the race, not before. I will take the blame on this. We have a good weekly race program and a good bunch of guys. I just wish you didn't live 200 miles away Kat and could race with us. Sunday's are fun and with this world we live in today I am happy to have a group still having fun and racing on the 'club' level weekly. BTW I did pull this drivers points, took away his awards, making him buy everyone a hot dog this Sunday, and making him pick up the trash in our AC pit room for a month.

Since this has been spread all over the net for over a week now, I figured that was the same issue/ same race.

GOOD JOB Mike - hey make him send HOT DOGS to the West Coast Too - we're hungry too.

(LOL - More drama from the state of Florida and it's NOT even election time yet)

It appears that his intention was to cheat. So then lets call it what it is. "cheating" I think one year is excessive for a penalty. Most of us want to stop cheating. Let tech cars even at the club races to stop it, and bench racers who do not pass tech for that run or that day. Its to hard to recruit
new racers these days, so we don't want to drive racers away. We also need to stop racers from crossing the line when we have rules laid out.

"GO FAST, TURN LEFT"

a guy at our local track who back in the 19 turn days was a front runner.

he quit racing for awhile because he didn't like brushless motors

now he is back racing brushless 21.5 and lipo...he did well the first couple weeks until a local hot shoe entered the class..the last few weeks he has been 2 laps off the pace as well as the rest of the field.

so this past sunday he decides he will stick a 17.5 motor in his car and not tell anyone until the race is over..needless to say he didn't go any faster.
this was a points race and he told the race director and a select few other guys what he did after the race was over...

Not knowing a thing about brushless is the 17.5 a lower power motor?

Mike Clark

NO


WOW - look at all of us who are looking for Drama this boring Wednesday morning...

RCThunder, WARBIRD, jdwaggoner, dpopham, rod g, LWracer, pmsimkins, CypressMidWest, onefastdude, TomHargrave, ovalracer05, 69mkitmine, 94_snake, RACER185, 18TLateModel, brian0525, skip724, jake86, katf1sh, Razoo, Dpreston, JHardy, swtour

Mike Clark

NO


WOW - look at all of us who are looking for Drama this boring Wednesday morning...

RCThunder, WARBIRD, jdwaggoner, dpopham, rod g, LWracer, pmsimkins, CypressMidWest, onefastdude, TomHargrave, ovalracer05, 69mkitmine, 94_snake, RACER185, 18TLateModel, brian0525, skip724, jake86, katf1sh, Razoo, Dpreston, JHardy, swtour

It's either this or "The price is right" and without Barker it aint the same! :p

...Price is Right doesn't start here for another Hour

Mike Clark

NO


WOW - look at all of us who are looking for Drama this boring Wednesday morning...

RCThunder, WARBIRD, jdwaggoner, dpopham, rod g, LWracer, pmsimkins, CypressMidWest, onefastdude, TomHargrave, ovalracer05, 69mkitmine, 94_snake, RACER185, 18TLateModel, brian0525, skip724, jake86, katf1sh, Razoo, Dpreston, JHardy, swtour

They might be looking FOR it, but look at who keeps it going...everytime.

I like the poll I am fine with that... just that I have talked to all involved and believe we are moving forward. Time to race!!!

There's probably more to the story. I could be way off base here but...

Yes it was poor judgment by the racer, but doubt he had the intension of causing problems. It sounds like the racer got frustrated and thought he was getting beat by horse power so he tried a faster motor...he was just messing around. That doesn't make his actions "ok"...but I wouldn't call it cheating.....he told people he had the motor in.....he didn't intend to deceive or trick them....
poor judgment? yes. cheating? I don't think so. I guess it depends how serious you take your club racing.


Jason... you owe everyone snow shoe fries for being light Saturday :)

I knew that "One year ban" rule was just to scare people :confused:

Joe you might have to deal with me in Nov. I'm trying to make your carpet race to hang out with my west coast buddys :wave:

Jason... you owe everyone snow shoe fries for being light Saturday :)

Thanks for making me feel better, my doctor claims I'm 20 lbs. overweight. ;)

They might be looking FOR it, but look at who keeps it going...everytime.


lmfao. spot on jason.

DPreston

That would be cool -

Racin' Jason 8

I try - at least it keeps these boards alive and hoppin' (Nothin' worse than DEAD web boards)

But - remember the DRAMA seems to come from FLORIDA -

Mike Clark

NO


WOW - look at all of us who are looking for Drama this boring Wednesday morning...

RCThunder, WARBIRD, jdwaggoner, dpopham, rod g, LWracer, pmsimkins, CypressMidWest, onefastdude, TomHargrave, ovalracer05, 69mkitmine, 94_snake, RACER185, 18TLateModel, brian0525, skip724, jake86, katf1sh, Razoo, Dpreston, JHardy, swtour

I'm sitting at home recovering after foot surgery, what's yall's excuse?
besides I'm watching Parris Hilton's new BFF. I might as well get a rise out of staying home.

The racer who used a hi Hp motor is either a poor set up man or has been doing the wrong thing for a few years now, either way he should garner you pitty and not your scorn. Somebody should sit this racer down and explain to him the the more efficently a car goes around the track the faster it is unless he can't drive either.

The racer that pulled this crap has been in the hobby for 20 years. He knows what corner speed is! He has won many races in FL over the years. I don't want to see him banned, but I do want to see rules enforced.

I'm all about drama, but he cheated without a doubt.

Ok I'm pretty firmiliar with the situation. The guy put the motor in the car told his buddies then ran it. My problem is 1 he did not tell everybody in that class they all had the right to be asked if it was ok 2 he didn't ask the race director and only after the race did he tell the race director.

It sounds like it was a club race, not some national event.

What difference did it really make in anybody`s life?

People in the world have real problems. Get over it.

The only two guys he didn't tell were the two he suspected of "cheating"

As I said on Thunder I don't think Mike or Scarecrow would have let it go down like that.

Just a lapse in judgement for a brief moment in time. Like this one time at band camp.....well we won't go there, but I'm sure somebody will take something away from this.
I'm going to dig out my 21.5 car and get that 13.5 out of it right now.:rolleyes:
It's all in good fun now guys I'm sure it won't happen again.
Hey I'm 400 miles from this I'm going Back to R and G!!! :thumbsup:

as a track owner, this is something that happens all the time. but as a owner, this is something we would handle in house and not want to air to the hole country. i'm sure that the person would have been watched closer the next race. i'm not saying what he did was right but, i bet he didn't walk away with thousands of dollars of purse money. if nobody was emotionally scarred for life, it will be alright. let it go and get back to having fun in what is our hobby.

I cant believe this question was posted....

Let me start out saying that I hate cheaters!!

This Racer DID NOT CHEAT at MTR I was there!

I saw his motor go through tech as Scarecrow metered the motor and it was 100% legal!

I have only respect for him as well as other racers that was there racing with him.

He did nothing wrong.

This thread is BS!

Guys need to understand we race RC for fun.

Thats all!

Let me start out saying that I hate cheaters!!

This Racer DID NOT CHEAT at MTR I was there!

I saw his motor go through tech as Scarecrow metered the motor and it was 100% legal!

I have only respect for him as well as other racers that was there racing with him.

He did nothing wrong.

This thread is BS!

Guys need to understand we race RC for fun.

Thats all!

Ross are you sure you have the facts straight? We aren't talking about Preston. We are talking about somone else who admitted to running a 17.5 in the 21.5 class with your blessing

Ross....the question is weather the guy (no names )that ran the 17.5 motor in 21.5 was
cheating. I believe it was cheating. It was underhanded AND SHADEY!!!!!!!!

If said racer was REALLY concerned that another racer was cheating he should have gone to Mike and stated so. He did this to cause controversy. We all know the teched driver was going to be legal.

we had a racer same day run 17.5 lipo w/ the 10.5 4cell class, if he wanted to "see the speed difference between the 2 motors", he should have waited for practice or break.
Not during a Qualifier during a point series.

HE was WRONG,HE should not have done it.HE knew what he was doing!!
His excuse was"He beat me and I was cheating so that guy must be cheating too".

Also, I believe the 17.5 motor had the same color timing ring as the 21.5.HMMMM.

Did Mike catch this racer cheating at MTR in the main?

I don't know anyone who races 21.5 class cheating at MTR?

Mike is the race director, maybe he needs to start checking top three motors after every points race (mains).

This would put a end to all so called cheating.

Also, I believe the 17.5 motor had the same color timing ring as the 21.5.HMMMM.

The Original ones did. Since these motors were pretty much done by NOVAK for our series and ARCOR, we didn't know if they would kick off Nationally or not, so we didn't want extra's built in - we wanted NOVAK to be able to use the K.I.S.S. principal.

Now that the combo has gained popularity - more STUFF is needed, and is/has been added.

you're not cheating unless you get caught, did he get caught? No, he turned himself in. would you trust him again, NO! :rolleyes:

you're not cheating unless you get caught, did he get caught? No, he turned himself in. would you trust him again, NO! :rolleyes:

I would say that, if he turned himself in then didn't he tell the Truth.

He could have not said anything and walked away and wouldn't have heard
anything about this.

Sound to me that he was being honest by telling the race director.

kat you are good, you sure can get things going.

But I think things like this (polls and debates about it)
just make ppls tracks look bad. I dont think he should have done it but he did and its over.

Who am I to judge, we all make mistakes in life.

Nobody is perfect except one.

And they crucified him.

Life is too short.

Peace

[quote=katf1sh;2539516]a guy at our local track who back in the 19 turn days was a front runner.

Way to go Mr. Troublemaker. You were not there! It's not your "local Track"! More people knew what was going on before the "heat" in question was even run. You love to start trouble on the chat boards, I'm sure no one forgot your "Novak" saga. I personnally want to thank you for making us racers here in Florida look stupid.

When you come over here to race and there is a problem you would have every right to comment about the problem. But since you were not at the track on the day in question, you have no right (forget the free speech snitzzz) to try to make us look bad infront of all the great racers on this board.

We are a great bunch of fun people and will continue to be so and we don't need you input as far as what we do over here on the "other" coast.

One too many times my one time friend....:wave:

Good Luck,
Tin Man

Man Isn't This Some Funny Stuff The Guy That Started This Thread Has Actually Been Caught Cheating. And He Was Probably Cheating Against You At A National Event He Was Caught Running 19 Turn Arms That Had Been Drilled Out And Lightened. Thats Pretty Bad But Whats Even Worse Is When He Ran His Little Focar Series Which Is Now Been Run Into The Ground He Also Rigged A Few Raffles At His Own Races.. He Is A Real Great Guy That Loves To Sit Back Point His Finger And Start Trouble

Good Point Tinman You Aren't Talking About The Day That He Mysteriously Got A 8.5 Motor In A 10.5 Motor Package.. I Know About That Day That Was A Freaking Joke He Was .2 Faster Than The Field Your Car Must Have Been Perfect That Day Owe Know Thats Right You Said You Must Have Gotten 1 Of The 1 In A Million Motors...

This whole thing is stupid.

I never would of thought me "cherry picking" 21.5 would start all this crap. Or even make a racer who has been in the hobby for twenty years bolt in a cheater motor.

The only reason this thread is on hobby talk is because of the personal attacks on Thunder and the threads being deleted. I think it might be time to shut this one down too!