I know alot of us have posted threads concerning the plight of our chosen form of racing. We have all kicked around ideas and what we thought was wrong and how to fix it. On my way to the races yesterday, I think I hit upon something. After talking it over with Tim, Coyote Racing, he agreed with my solution.

We all get together and petition Congress for a bail-out.

R/C Oval is in trouble, we are having trouble with racer counts, track are going out of business and racers can hardly afford gas to go racing. Not to mention sinking sales for the manufacturers.

I figure a cool $10 million or so should do it.

So, who is with me??

:dude:

ScottH we don't need a bail out for Oval. We just need the government to step in and buy back all those NiMH that we all bought.

Good one trailranger!

Gotta admit the $10mil would be cool!

Can I get one of those Golden parachute plans like the less than three weeks in office CEO of Washinton Mutual? What was it 19 Mil? That's one smart cookie there!

No kidding Tim, I wonder where I sign?

Letters/e-mails etc are running 100 to 1 against this bailout and our senators/congressmen are working 14 hours a day to make this happen. I don't know about oval racing but my great grandsons will be paying for this! :dude:

I doubt this will be paid for that soon. Look at how bad SS is. Don't take this post wrong, I am against the bailout 100%. It is not the taxpayers fault that these companies made poor decisions. Let 'em tank.

10 Million!!?? That kind of coin could build a serious R/C Race Park I tell ya'
Every venue under one roof to boot............NICE! LOL

I don’t know Scott, 10 Mil seems awfully skimpy. Let’s see, Tim needs a retirement deal, I need one and then there are you and the rest of the Oval Committee. We should probably go back and pick up J.B. in all of this as well after all ARCOR was the first to go under. And lets not forget Sonny either. Now we have to consider the Hobby Shops that are suffering and need a bail out deal.

Manufacturers have to fall into this thing too. I’m sure that John could find something to do with a mil or two along with EA and the rest of them…..Heck I KNOW Todd could LOL.

Nope, I think you need to replace the “M” in million with a “B” then maybe they would pay attention to ya!

I am now the CEO of J-Dub Racing INC.

10 min later.....

I quit where is my 10 million?

I dont understand how we in America work. We have let everything get out of control for the rich people. When do you say there will be a "ture up"? Not saying give us middle class people more money (would be nice), but give the "rich" people less. Take baseball. When do you say we are not going to give you 256 million over the next 8 years? Sallary cap for everything. The president of the United states up until a few years ago make $200,000 per year. Why the hell would someone that runs a bank make WAY more than that?

I say we talk to Bush...He seems like someone you could talk into doing just about anything...idiot!
That is all the political things I am going to say. I will also say about my above comment, I dont think this is all Bush's fault, but I still think he is an idiot! LOL

Joel White

There is plenty of blame to go around. The banks shouldn't have been handing out loans to anyone who asked, but people also need to have a little personal responsibility and understand what they can and cannot afford. Is it truly that difficult to understand a budget and how a loan works? Don't most parents teach kids those concepts when they are about 5 years old.

Personally, I'm more annoyed by the private citizens who are idiots being bailed out by my money. Oh did your million dollar house that you built on a barrier island 2' above sea level get washed a way by a hurricane? What a tragedy, who could have see that coming, by all means rebuild in that same spot using your federal flood insurance that my taxes subsidize.

Oh you didn't realize that you can't afford a 300K mortgage on a 30K salary, let me just take care of that for you with my taxes.

As for the bailout, I haven't checked up on the latest and greatest plan, but my understanding is the government actually stands to turn a decent profit on the deal in the long run. Of course I'm sure they'll screw that up or blow the money through mismanagement, but in theory the bailout isn't as terrible as it is made out to be.

Unfortunately the reality is the government can't simply let the major financial institutions fail. That'll end up punishing a whole lot of people who have done nothing wrong. It'll also indirectly screw all of us.

You can bet, if the government can foresee a decent profit in all of this.......they have already SPENT IT!

I wish I could cite some facts, but I heard sometime on tv this is the largest stratification of wealth since just before the great depression.

From what I do know from college the Great Depression was started from debt. Too many people bought cars, houses, businesses with credit that on good week were able to make the payements. This left little margin for any recession to occur. Once payements could no longer be made, the banks that lent the credit were in world of hurt leading to a domino effect of bank failings. The Market offically crashed on October 29, 1929 months after the writing was on the wall that business and consumers should be conservative. The market did rebound after a year or two but the effect of poor lending practices led many banks unwilling to take risk to lend out. Even consumers were also unwilling to take loans on anything risky leading to a sudden drop in auto and home sales. Manufacturing stagnated and the depression set in. It took WWII to generate the massive spending and manufacturing to bring the economny back to life.

Another story of collasp also occured just two decades ago with the USSR. The polictical enviroment was chaos and could not stabilze a country. The USSR left Afanistan from a 9 year war the left the country broke and short of young men. The outer regions of the USSR declared independance becuase the government was short on military strenght and too paranoid send troops. At that time the USSR was more afraid of the U.S. and continued to fund the Cold War and neglect the real matters at home. In 1991, the Union was offically broken.

I am not a doomsday soothsayer but recent history has shown that poor lending practices or waging wars can lead to a countries downfall.

There is plenty of blame to go around. The banks shouldn't have been handing out loans to anyone who asked, but people also need to have a little personal responsibility and understand what they can and cannot afford. Is it truly that difficult to understand a budget and how a loan works? Don't most parents teach kids those concepts when they are about 5 years old.

Personally, I'm more annoyed by the private citizens who are idiots being bailed out by my money. Oh did your million dollar house that you built on a barrier island 2' above sea level get washed a way by a hurricane? What a tragedy, who could have see that coming, by all means rebuild in that same spot using your federal flood insurance that my taxes subsidize.

Oh you didn't realize that you can't afford a 300K mortgage on a 30K salary, let me just take care of that for you with my taxes.

As for the bailout, I haven't checked up on the latest and greatest plan, but my understanding is the government actually stands to turn a decent profit on the deal in the long run. Of course I'm sure they'll screw that up or blow the money through mismanagement, but in theory the bailout isn't as terrible as it is made out to be.

Unfortunately the reality is the government can't simply let the major financial institutions fail. That'll end up punishing a whole lot of people who have done nothing wrong. It'll also indirectly screw all of us.

Bravo, Pat!

My wife and I laugh every time our high schoolers come home with meaningless homework. Years ago we thought they should do away with crap courses like Social Studies, Art, Music, and yes...even Gym. Boy, here's an idea - have a course about life!

Investments
Mortgages
Insurance
Retirement
Real Politics (not social studies)

At 34 I still run into everyday things in life that I have to learn the hard way and usually they are government related. I believe "they" don't want you to know how things work and want to keep the public confused so that they can exploit us. Conspiracy theory at its finest. :p

man a guy i work with today look like he was ready to jump off our building he has 2 or 3 hundred thousand invested in the stock market when he seen the markets falling he said to hell with running the machine and jumped on his cell phone trying to sell that crap before he lost everything dont know the outcome but i hope i see him at work in the morning

When I bought my house over two years ago, banks wanted me to 100% finance and ontop of that wanted me to spend more than I wanted to. They tired hard to lock me into a ARM abut I fought for a 30year for just a point higher and put 20% down (sold all my stocks).

I knew what I could afford, I didn't try to chance my budget and not plan for any unforseen expenses. If I maxed out my budget I couldn't race : I made sure I had breathing room in the budget to enjoy a few hot laps.

I think alot of people just got greedy or caught up in expecting the good life instead of working hard and saving up for the good life.

In 27 1/2 years and my 1100sgft of house will be mine, all mine.

If the Government can get me back the $37,245.79 that I spent from 2001-2006 on racing oval I'll un-retire.

There is plenty of blame to go around. The banks shouldn't have been handing out loans to anyone who asked, but people also need to have a little personal responsibility and understand what they can and cannot afford. Is it truly that difficult to understand a budget and how a loan works? Don't most parents teach kids those concepts when they are about 5 years old..

Amen Pat !!
I just recently bought a house and you really learn alot by asking the right questions and doing a little research.
When people tell me they took out an 80/20 loan and didn't know you have a balloon payment at the end of 15 years on a 30 year loan just baffles me. I mean seriously, did you not do any due diligence before signing your loan documents?
Another thing that baffles me is how people get pre-approved for $300,000 when they make $45,000 a year. And yet the person has enough stupidity to just enter into the loan and not even know if they can make the payments.

Unreal.


Here is the best summary I have heard of the recent financial turmoil:
Source: Wall St. Journal
Author Stephen Schwarzman (Chairman of the Blackstone Group)
"It's a perfect storm. It started with Congress encouraging lending to lower-income people. You went from subprime loans being 2% of total loans in 2002 to 30% of loans in 2006. That kind of enormous increase swept into the net people who shouldn't have been borrowing. Those loans were packaged intio CDOs rated AAA, which led the investment banking firms [buying them] to do little to no due diligence, and the securities were distributed throughout the world, where they started defaulting. When they started defaulting, out of bad luck or bad judgment, we implemented fair-value accounting...You had wildly different marks for this kind of security, which led to massive write-offs by the commerical and investment banking system. In the face of those losses, you needed to raise new equity which came from sovereign wealth funds, in part which then caused political resistance to sovereign wealth funds, who have withdrawn from putting money into the system... We now find ourselves in a liquidity crisis where fundamentally the cost of money for financial intermediaries [such as investment banks] is significantly in excess of their cost of lending it. So several institutions found themselves in a structurally impossible position."

Better think first. Students who study and play music score higher across the board in standardized math testing. Students who study art show a higher propensity for solving complex multi-step problems requiring instinct judgment over rote memorization. PE develops areas of the brain which can increase memory.

If you really want to make school worthwhile, make it 10 hour days, add 40 days to the school year, and make sure your school board enforces a rigorous curriculum and doesn't allow administration to pass kids along when parents don't do their jobs.

And for what it's worth I'm 100% opposed to the bailout. My neighborhood is 6 years old and half the homes have changed hands at least once. This is America, not a socialist state.

Bravo, Pat!

My wife and I laugh every time our high schoolers come home with meaningless homework. Years ago we thought they should do away with crap courses like Social Studies, Art, Music, and yes...even Gym. Boy, here's an idea - have a course about life!

Investments
Mortgages
Insurance
Retirement
Real Politics (not social studies)

At 34 I still run into everyday things in life that I have to learn the hard way and usually they are government related. I believe "they" don't want you to know how things work and want to keep the public confused so that they can exploit us. Conspiracy theory at its finest. :p

Better think first. Students who study and play music score higher across the board in standardized math testing. Students who study art show a higher propensity for solving complex multi-step problems requiring instinct judgment over rote memorization. PE develops areas of the brain which can increase memory.



That's some useless trivia :rolleyes:

So, when these super students take out an ARM and ultimately face foreclosure they can:

1) Write a song about why they are losing their home.

2) Paint some Mona Lisa knockoffs to make their next mortgage payment.

3) Take a run around the block to remember how they got where they were in the first place.

Didn't mean to hit a nerve about your electives, just wish school boards created a class about real life and made it mandatory.

I heard a good idea to put a cure to all of this bailout business. Instead of paying 700 Billion to save the folks that caused all of these problems and still want the kzillion dollar retirements, just give every American Citizen a million! Everyone is rich, no one needs a loan so all of the loan companies that made this mess can wallow in it and fix their own problem.

THAT get's my vote. I read something and will try to post it!!!
Kid

Mclin, only give it to those that filed income tax in 2007-08 :)

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 10/01/08 at 00:52 GMT (EST+5) is
305,302,630

Divide 700 billion by the above population number. We would be sitting pretty good!!

I see nothing but good things that could come out of that.

1- About a third of the ones you give it to will be broke in 6 months so that would put one heck a boost back into the economy. After that, they would have to go back to work and that would take care of the rest of us that would retire.

2- The green card part of the nation would have more work than they could every hope for and that should satisfy the bleeding hearts that feel so sorry for them.

3 - Put number 1 with number two and there should be a zero unemployment figure.

4- And just look at the savings we just saved the government!

This deal is sounding better all the time.

some staggering numbers
for each resident they are borrowing $2,292,806,976.00
for each household they are borrowing $5,472,943,044.00
How about they give everybody there houses back and 2 million dollars to be able to heat there homes for the next couple of years

Check the math, it is like $2,292 per person for the bailout.


If anyone wants a really really funny Subprime Mortage Power Point I'll pass one out.

http://www.youshare.com/Guest/fd646ec1ca3cd795.pps.html

We are going to borrow from the banks to bail the banks out? Sounds like Jethro come up with this one to help Mr Driesdale out on the Beverly Hillbillies... LOL

Stand corrected. This math stuff is hard. lol

The powerpoint I posted is really funny.

To view it will require, Mircosoft Office or OpenOffice (Free from google)

what I want to know is if you have a mortgage through these falling banks that want to be bailed out, do these folks get there deeds to there house since it would be there tax dollars also to bail there own bank out debt??? I know we could not get that luck I bet!! at least a normal hard working American

I think this is off subject, but maybe back on subject...

First I need to go "Back in the Day", before R/C first got started. We were advid racers in slot cars, living in Miami FL. circa: 1968. Slot cars were on the downward trend, because like oval today, the influx of new racers wasn't happening. Why some may wonder, when there were several tracks in any given city? Well, back then we had the old die hards, the sponsored racers and kids. The vast majority of us took these kids under our wings and nurtured them. We babysat them so they could go to out of town races, many of us even made sure they got a ride and were "taken" care of. Slowly, kids were not getting into racing, because the cost was getting exorbitant, (ala die hard racers-sponsored racers) for a "kids" hobby. Another reason, the era of parents not doing things with there kids was on the wain. In many cases the slot car track was a place to drop off the kids and pick them up later, which was fine..cheep babysitter, UNTIL the cost started going up. The competitive kids were finding they needed more and more to keep competitive. Soon we didn't see them at the track and eventually there were only the few die hards that raced weekly, which didn't cover the rent and tracks closed, one after another. Sure some new ones opened, but the die hards had to have a Blue King track and anything else was ignored. The new tracks closed. During these good and bad times, even the die hards treated slot cars like a hobby, while it was out for blood on the track, we were friends after the last lap. After the races we all went out to eat, from the hot dogs to the also rans. Everyone was invited and there was more racing at the restaurant than on the track,, The newbies learned, the die hards shared. It was nothing for 20-30 of us to take over a restaurant at 10PM (even back in the late 60's we could find somewhere to eat that stayed open 24hrs).

Then along came R/C car racing, the racers were carry over from slot cars, with fewer and fewer places to race, R/C cars seemed like a good deal. CLUBS (keyword CLUBS) started, Miami, Sarasota, Tampa had clubs. We held our weekly races, constantly looking for parking lots to race. In Miami we finally got the rear of a Levitz Furniture parking lot. Visiable from the freeway, but not to close to the store. We had our first "permanent" track, which was painted on the parking lot surface with black driveway sealer. We were the South Florida R/C Car Club, under full swing. We had a place to race and we had fun. Back then R/C was so new we didn't have die hards or sponsored racers, we were all EQUAL. A win or loss was more on how you drove then what you spent. We had a hobby that we could all enjoy, we had what a hobby is meant to be "making new friends" with a common interest. Not who could spend the most or who could brag the most. As a CLUB we had monthly meetings, which very few members missed. We had pool parties (remember it was Miami), we had Steak fries, Halloween parities, New Years parties, Birthday parities and we had FUN, as friends, even when the R/C cars were left at home. On race weekends after the races we (as old slot racers) carried on the tradition, go out to eat after the race, no one cared about the "hour". Very few of the racers missed those after the race dinners, maybe because it was the frosting on the cake of a good day of racing. OR...maybe it was COMRADERY?? But I will have to add one negative to this tale...there were few "kids", those that we had were the sons of another racer. Like Oval today..kids were not a lifeline of the hobby, forget them (unless they are family related). The lifeline was, we had a HOBBY that we all enjoyed and shared. No secrets, NO CLICKS, we were "family". We had an R/C car club, BR (Before ROAR)

Before ROAR...our club was going great. About the time that ROAR became official (circa 1969), Bob Rule contacted me and said we needed to look into this organization. I was writing two columns an month for Car Model Mag, and Miniature Auto Racing (one for Slots South and one for R/C South). Our Club Joined ROAR (insurance..HEH--HEH) Then one meeting night, being the Secretary/Treasure, I said: Let's have a big race. Members said how, we only have $58 in the treasury? I said, we print up a booklet, send it out Nationally and go from there. One of our members worked for a local TV Station and our printing was free..the booklet had a place for pre-entries and for Sponsorship..The 1st SFR/CC Orange Blossom "WINTER NATIONALS" was a go!! We started receiving pre-entries and Sponsorship for the race. Sponsorship paid for the trophies, which were Sterling Silver Bowls (not plated) on genuine walnut bases, (not fiber board) filled with what else but Oranges!! Racers came from all over the US, from Michigan to California, at the race, we had representation from the major manufactures at that time, Thorp, Delta, Associated, Marker, Taurus and so on. The representation wasn't some sponsored racer, it was the "owners".

As I read the reply to some of the posts, I have to reflect on EROCKS1331 and what he spent in 5 years of racing. By his figures, that he stated, the average weekly expense over 5 years was $120.00 a week. We wonder why we don't have any "Kids" in oval? What parent is going to give a kid $120.00 a week for a hobby.? How many parents will buy 3 video games a week for little Johnny? Not Many! So don't blame video games!! Sure is a lot to win a bowling ball trophy, or less, (many tracks give nothing for a weekly win). While it's not in what you win, but is a win in a HOBBY that important? Is a win the factor so you can keep racing, because you can't "afford" the hobby? I once overheard a racer say that he HAD TO WIN to support his hobby? Is it a hobby or a profession? Various people will get more of a fun factor, out of a dollar factor, than others, but when does the dollar factor, override the fun factor? If your in it for a hobby, there is a dollar factor, verses other "HOBBIES", if your in it for a profession, I would highly suggest you don't quit your day job and find another "HOBBY"!

The whole point of this reply is: No matter of your track has 6 racers or 26 racers...What do you and your fellow racers do after a race? What do you and your fellow racers do "off track"? Is your "friendship carried further? Are you packed up and ready to go home, leaving only your car and radio unpacked, so you can make a quick exit and get home early? Do you go home because you "won't " race in the "B" Main? DO you encourage going to eat after the race and make sure you "invited" anyone that raced that night? Are you more concerned with getting home at 9PM instead of 11PM? TV is no excuse, we as a majority have access to record a program. Do you and your racer friends have a mutual life outside of R/C cars (Halloween parties, Birthday parties, BBQ's etc.?) Is there a friendship after the races? Is there more to your hobby than blood and guts racing? If so, you are a HOBBY RACER, if not, your hobby is dying and there is no CURE!!

JB -- WOW! And a positive WOW at that.

I will have to say I am some of it all. I want to win and I want to go fast. But the friendships I have made, both old and new are priceless.

I have "re-met" some of the old guard and it is like we have not missed a day.

I am very fortunate, I race for a man named Tim Smith and he really treats us as friends and teammates. We have an annual Christmas get together and then one before the start of the season.

This year at the Nats, with the help from a good frien Kevin, we were able to feed Team Coyote and the KSG Nitro Pan guys and anyone else that dropped in. We sat under the awning after the racing for the day and had a great time. I will be honest, I remember more about that than the racing.

Ahh, Scott-you sweet little pup, you done went and got all mushy on us. You so sweet- good boy-good boy,you old mut. Later-The Phenom:thumbsup:

Hey -- I see you got out of the slammer. Make any "friends"?

Well I will say spending $120 a week will surely kill racing. For that price, I can visit the gentlemens lounge drink a few beers, tip a few ladies and repeat that for another 5 days before I am out of cash. Then start it all over again with fridays paycheck.

That's some useless trivia :rolleyes:

So, when these super students take out an ARM and ultimately face foreclosure they can:

1) Write a song about why they are losing their home.

2) Paint some Mona Lisa knockoffs to make their next mortgage payment.

3) Take a run around the block to remember how they got where they were in the first place.

Didn't mean to hit a nerve about your electives, just wish school boards created a class about real life and made it mandatory.

You're not hitting a nerve. If you make it 10 hour days, you can add those courses on finance. Actually, you should be able to learn it in either High School economics or Family and Consumer Sciences (Home Ec). The problem is that America doesn't want rigorous schools, because it would put responsibility where it belongs- on parents and kids, instead of society. For the record, I teach art myself. I couldn't give a rats #$% if a kid can draw better when they get out of my class. I care if they can manage their time more effectively, improve their work habits, have developed a sense craftsmanship and respect for quality, and are able to plan long term while dealing with unexpected problems using complex creative thinking. That doesn't happen in any other class. If Mom puts little Johnny's picture on the refrigerator when he gets home, it's just icing on the cake. You won't catch any hand-holding or people singing "Kumbaya" in my class. I don't want kids digging ditches for a living.

Anyway, sorry for digressing. What this country really needs is smarter voters who pay attention, which is why the 50 some % of us that do are always cleaning up the mess. I'm just stunned that it took over 15 years for all of this to finally blow up.

Mclin, only give it to those that filed income tax in 2007-08 :)

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 10/01/08 at 00:52 GMT (EST+5) is
305,302,630

Divide 700 billion by the above population number. We would be sitting pretty good!!


ok timmy i think you skipped a few art classes in your time!

there are roughly 200 million tax payers in the usa divide that number by 700 billion and you get a grand total of roughly 3700.00 per person if your married you and your wife can retire with 7400.00???? not much money is it? lol

7400.00???? not much money is it? lol
No, Bill...but it would pay for this year's R/C! :p

No, Bill...but it would pay for this year's R/C! :p


And I would rather spend it on RC than bail out some corporate fat cat that made poor decisions.

if we don't help we lose...

if we do help we lose

either way it sucks!

poor folks bought houses they could never afford on a burger whopper salary

and i know some wealthy people who bought houses they can't afford now..

one buddy i know has an 8000.00 a month mortage!!! he takes home 750.00 a week!!!

WOW! we are paying for alot of ignorance on alot of peoples part...including the govt!

one thing is for sure...we are going to pay!


that 600.00 check we all got i just knew it was gonna cost us 10 times that in the end! lol

Yea Bill, you were sure right about that stimulus check, we are gonna have to give back and then some. lolif we don't help we lose...

if we do help we lose

either way it sucks!

poor folks bought houses they could never afford on a burger whopper salary

and i know some wealthy people who bought houses they can't afford now..

one buddy i know has an 8000.00 a month mortage!!! he takes home 750.00 a week!!!

WOW! we are paying for alot of ignorance on alot of peoples part...including the govt!

one thing is for sure...we are going to pay!


that 600.00 check we all got i just knew it was gonna cost us 10 times that in the end! lol

Billy, it was meant to be sarcastic.:rolleyes: I do have a calculator.:thumbsup:ok timmy i think you skipped a few art classes in your time!

there are roughly 200 million tax payers in the usa divide that number by 700 billion and you get a grand total of roughly 3700.00 per person if your married you and your wife can retire with 7400.00???? not much money is it? lol