Notes from the Club Winter Season Organizational Meeting held Sept 18, 2008.

Racing will be held at Science and Hobbies using the new DIRT Track:woohoo:

Race Crew:
Web & Communications Ed Litt
Track Prep & Facility Kyle Corbett
Race Director Keith Watson & Kirt Coonradt
Sign-ups & Finance Open
Tech Inspector Open

Track Building: Monday nights, starting Oct 6 :dude:
This gives us four nights and weekends as necessary. Details on the work each night and tools required will be posted separately. The list of tasks in their approximate order (as per Post # 154 of the Science and Hobby Indoor Dirt Track Thread:

Clay supplier has been contacted to schedule (Needs to be mined, dried and screened before delivery
Carpet to be market off where track edge will be
Windows knocked into the block walls of the Directors and Tech Rooms, framed in, and removable panels built (Bob H)
Directors room re-worked to remove plumbing fittings (Tom F)
Pit Area re-wired from 220 V A/C outlets to 120V outlets and wired to strips.
Air-handler - Dehumidifying equipment considered (Bill D)
Track walls installed
Track watering system designed
Track base material laid
Track Clay installed
Raised Infield Built
Drivers Stand
Pits Arranged

Anticipated Opening: Nov 3 :hat:

Schedule
2008 Indoor Season: Monday Nights Nov – Dec No Points
2009 Indoor Season: Monday Nights Jan- Apr Points
Special Events; Sundays, Once per month, TBD :cool:

The Hobby shop has expresses interest in running additional events will be run on Sundays. These will be announced by them, separately to avoid confusion.

Anticipated Classes:
Sportsman (Rookie) EDM 4-Cell
Small Block EDM 27T / 17.5
Big Block EDM 19T / 13.5
Sprint Open (TBD)
Trucks 27T / 17.5 ( I can’t believe you didn’t bring this up)

**Special Note: We recommend you do not invest in batteries or brushless motors for a few weeks. There are fast moving and impending announcements coming soon involving these items that will affect your buying decisions; and we want you to have all the information before spending your hard earned money.

See Ya............. At The Track:thumbsup:
Kirt

Kirt....I will tech the open sprints if that helps!

rain this weekend makes for a good time to work on the track at Sience & Hobby

willing helper:jay
PS. many power tool,ladders etc. let me know what is needed. and when.

Hey Jay
I can't make but if you can....

I'd recommend making the openings in the cement block walls. The one on teh left with the plumbing fixtures will be the scoring room. We will most likely raise the floor 12 " or so to see over the wall easier so the opening can be at the three foot level. We will frame this one out with a removable panel, just like Latham.

The room on the right will be for tech and transponders. This one will need a shelf on the inside, but that can be permanent with a frame and lift off panel just like the first.

Don't worry about the carpentry, but if you can get the bklock knocked out that would be great.

THanks
Others are welcome I'm sure.

PS You may need some plastic to put over the door ways ot keep the noise and dust out of the store. Just keep any receipts and we'll

See Ya.....................Monaday..............At The Track:thumbsup:
Kirt

i will start tomorrow, and minimize effecets on the store.
yes, monday-track- with truck.

To: Kirt
you now have a new view of the track at S&H, 24" X 32"
let me know if this is ok befor i frame it.

i have pictures just cant figure out how to attach.

Hey Guys,

Just looking to see if anyone else is interested in running in the open sprint class this winter indoors @ S&H... Also looking to buy a sprinter... ROB S.. didn't you say you might sell yours?


JAY B :dude:

PS I will be @ Competition Monday night for the last race in the quad track series if anyone wants to talk about it

See the Science and Hobby Thread for the latest on the track construction activities and to find out how you can help.

See Ya...........Mondays............At The New Indoor Track
Kirt

Now that the new National Dirt Oval Rules/DODC Rules have been made public, will the club be adopting them? If so when will they go into effect? January 1st for the indoor season? Or not until summer/outdoor season starts?

-Jason

the club discussed having open rules for the remainder of 2008 to shake down the new track, so i would assume that we would go to the DODC rules jan 1.

DODC ???? Where would I find those rule?

http://www.dirtoval.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32983

I hope the club can take the time to make the right move with this rules deal, we had a great turn out this past season....If it aint broke don't fix it!

I hope the club can take the time to make the right move with this rules deal, we had a great turn out this past season....If it aint broke don't fix it!

I agree, I love the new rules honestly but would hate to see people get discouraged having to spend around $500.00 for an ESC, motor, charger and battery just to continue racing the same class, Jan 1 is not far away. In my opinion the the rules should start with the outdoor season giving people more time to convert over, surely most racers from now until May will have to buy new motors or batteries anyway so they will have a chance to do it slowly. Maybe we can even get some kind of group buy discount on LIPO chargers and brushless ESC's thru S&H, Competition, or Putnam. OR maybe a rent to own deal with the spec battery and motor, maybe the club could buy a bunch of spec stuff at a discount and let the racers use them for race day, return at the end of the day until its paid off thru higher entry fees. Just a thought, in the long run this WILL be less expensive and MUCH easier maintenance we just need a way to ease the up front pain. Think about how much more fun we'll have on raceday without worrying about keeping 3-4 batteries in order, switching from tray to tray, timing your charge so it finishes just before your race then sweating bullets cause its not ready in time, cutting comms at the track and switching motors trying to GUESS which one runs the best, it may end up just like the old days......:thumbsup:

Another though is if theres some sort of advantage with a 13.5 lipo over a 19t 4600 or vice versa maybe it can be evened out with weight for the indoor season. We do have a couple months of racing before the Jan points season and im sure there will be a few runners out there with the spec stuff to compare.

Great questions and valid concerns; and you are all on the right track.

We are going to ease into this just as stated, so the next time you would have purchased anything it will be the new stuff.

These rules will be in affect for the WDRA 2009 season and the earliest I expect that to open is March and won't affect us for a few months after that.

From a competitive point, we proved all last year that there was no discernible difference between the brushed and brushless power plants.

Regarding pricing, that will be consistent from hobby shop to hobby shop to mail order (if even available that way). One of the biggest pushes for this initiative is to able to purchase for a 'fare' price locally at your track the same goods as the best runner any where in the country is using. Take the old track motor philosophy and multiply it by 100 times when it comes to making the power as equal as possible. And with the brushless technology there is much less variance between motors, unlike today when you can get a 'hot' one once in a while.

So, to recap;
CD R/C Racers are 100% behind this effort
We will be all means phase this into affect as it has always been our goal to make racing as affordable and fun for as many racers and families as possible.

-Hope the helps-

See Ya...........At The Track:thumbsup:
Kirt

PS Don't forget to register for the Small Block Nationals http://www.cdrcracer.com/Pages/SBNationalsRegistration.php

Kirt,Met up with Romo' today over at GMX.Got to check out Putnams 17.5 brushless set-up.So with CDRC and WDRA probably taking on the new DODC package,what happens to Putnam,and the other manufacturers motors etc?
Or will CDRC still keep racing "club" using available equipment out there now,and abide by the DODC motor/batt package for regionals,and Nats'?? Thanks Kirt ;)

The approach will be a phased in one.
Definitely we will run to the end of the year with the existing rules and format.

We will meet to decide on the "compliance" date shortly; the natural date would be the first of the year when points start as most of us need new equipment for then and the indoor short track won't require high hp and big motors anyway.

-HTH
Kirt

Speaking of equipment and phasing out stuff, Kirt do you plan on changing the rules for sportsman(novice) this may be the place SB & BB guys could sell off some brushed and Nimh stuff.....DP

I vote that Novice existing club rules be left intact; allowing them to run bushed and Ni Mh along with the new stuff for anyone starting out brand new.

Did the club ever vote on these new rules???????

Bob, I had a slight negative reaction to these new rules too, but after looking at them it makes racing more simple...lipo/brushless and BB class/open modified really won't change much If we decide the turn limit of 19t or 13.5. So it isn't a big deal....Now if your upset about the Voting process in the club...maybe we should Vote on the Voting process.....lol
Big edit!!!!!

It's not just the voting issue, there's a lot more than that. Like this big race that the club is supporting . When the club had no place to race comp hobby open their door for the club to use their track and electric at no charge and the club doesn't use their home track for this race when comp and the deli could make a couple bucks. I just think its wrong. I have no probrem with lipo and brushless think it's a great idea, but telling me who I have to buy them from that ticks me off. Last year we went though this with the club motor, it wasn't fair if an outsider showed up an didn't have a club motor from what I am reading a lot of racers don't agree with the rules so if they show up they have to run mod or not race. Isn't that the same thing we just went though last year. I just think it's a lot to ask out of a club member your talking new batteries, motor, speed control, charger, body which comes to about $500.00 unless you go to the open wheel then you get a discount (whats up with that).

awsome sample of clay at the track kirt ..... dark brown sand no where to be found in it ... almost like potters clay be like glass if we go with that sample ...

Excellent post Balistic!! Heck, I'm still trying to figure out if I'm a club member or not???????????:freak:

where do we find these rules? And why wouldn't you use the same rule your using at masters.

where do we find these rules? And why wouldn't you use the same rule your using at masters.

Romano,

this address should put you onto the Dirt Oval website, it took me several days to read all the posts to get up to speed...

http://www.dirtoval.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32963


Good luck and happy reading....

Jay Biondi:dude:

Just for the record, a lot of you know I already made the move to brushless equipment.. I think it's more consistent than brushed stuff, it's definitely easier... of course the battery and motor I chose to run stock are not going to be legal if WE VOTE to run the national rules in our club. But I figure I might be able to use the lipo 3800 pack in the sprint car I am building ? By the way you can have your turbo 35 BL or otherwise upgraded to charge LIPO mine is there right now $50.00 plus return freight... I believe that this will cost most of the club members a lot of money up front but in the long run you will be better off.. I think as a club we should vote on what classes we will be running all winter and put the new rules into effect for next spring's outdoor season, this will give every one a chance to get their stuff in order and not be stressed out about the initial money (you can do it over time). If you have the money and are buying new equipmnet anyway you could get the spec stuff and be ready to run...

Think about how much you spend for a good NIMH pack and how long it lasts and all the work you must do to it to keep it good... last ones I bought were $65.00 the spec pack SMC 3200 is $90.00 that s a $25.00 difference for something that lasts longer, is more consistent and is easier to maintain.

I am agreeing with Bob that we need to vote on this as a club, or at worst form a DODC Rules panel that represents all of our racers and have them vote

I will also say that no matter what we vote, I will still be there to race, I just enjoy it too much not too.:wave:

Guys if you haven't been to dirt oval. com you need to read the posts

Sorry about my long post here

Too bad they didn't pick a motor that was made in the USA.:confused:

...........................

Uhhh Rich??? Even the motors we run now aren't made in the USA.

John :thumbsup:

My Novak 17.5 says it was made in the USA.

My Novak 17.5 says it was made in the USA.

Yup, and Novak now has had to change their packaging to read "Made in China" or Contain Parts Made In China...something to that effect. Funny how lawsuits prompt change-

Wow sounds like someone got caught with their pants down.:freak:
I'm going to go out and buy some Cadbury chocolates and rethink this whole thing!!:dude:

Yup, and Novak now has had to change their packaging to read "Made in China" or Contain Parts Made In China...something to that effect. Funny how lawsuits prompt change-

That's right, all because of what they used at the component level. In that case, there aren't too many things left that are composed of raw materials exclusively from the U.S. :cry:

run what u have ! why do we have to be part of any organizations ? we cant even tech what we have , concentrate on getting us back to real club form like dues and votes etc(when theres more than 10 people there) go back to sending out club letters so people know whats goin on , heck brushless has been here for 4 yrs and now were gonna worry about it ............most people will not like being told what motor and battery to buy and even if u tell them they will find ways to cheat , alternate labels etc just my two cents, ps ...look at the trucks this past summer 6.5 turns to stock motors , no one tech'd or said a word so why bother right ?I can tell ya one thing I will run what i have guaranteed !! DQ or not

Just a few facts to blur the rumors:
“The Club” is not sponsoring the Small Block Nationals. "The Club" is renting their transponders for the event only. This is being promoted by myself and Bob G; period.


Yes, it is wonderful that Howie and Ollie provide us with a fantastic place to race all summer; do not confuse my gratefulness for that with the Small Block Nationals.

Bob H, you are exactly right The DODC is exactly what the Capital District Radio Controlled Stock Club did for years, with its “Club Motor” policy; only now it’s on a National level so any one from any where in the country can stop by with their equipment and run. This totally rocks and puts the competition on an even keel.

But wait there’s more, if you don’t want to run the DODC there’s the open mod class that can have turn limits with any manufacturer’s equipment allowed.

Vote; They are held at the meetings; both at the executive level and the entire body. Sorry but the secretary is still typing up the absentee ballots; and the comptroller trying to manage our 401Kplan.

Newsletter, need to volunteer.

Tech; same story, need a volunteer.

Trucks, they all talked to each other and to me, they didn’t care about what each other was running and those that might have did not mind as it was going to have no bearing on the points for the year. Plus they all know that next year they would need to be equalized.


Yeah; lets go back the old days; until all these positions are filled racing is cancelled; and racing will not be held on the nights then the tech inspector, secretary and press agent are not in attendance.

Now, lets talk about how often you guys replace things anyway:


Batteries: 2 x per year (Maybe once for the casual racer) used to buy 3 @ $70 = $210; now you need one at $80
Charger, every couple of years you upgraded to the new or smaller model; and you can send the one you have out for $50 for the upgrade
Speed Controller, Every other year at least you upgraded. (use the $130 for the battery savings)

Body: You now need a $5 hood, nothing else changed, again you‘d have a new one every year due to wear and tear.

This program will do nothing to your annual spending to race in the short term and will lessen your overall spending it the longer you support the program.

Oh, for all that want things to be different, the Chairman of the Board Position is available March of 2010 for anyone that’s interested in all this FUN!

Kirt how many of our club racers travel all over the country racing? and after such a great summer season why chance such a big change? and remember nobody likes change....it's mostly a guy thing my wife said...maybe I should change her out for a new model....lol

Kirt what will the turn limit be on open modified?....aka BB

"i Agree Racing Should Be Cancelled Until All The Positions Are Filled "

"i Agree Racing Should Be Cancelled Until All The Positions Are Filled "


Isn't that a little..well over the top!

yeah just a bit SORRY caught up in the moment anyhow

Kirt sign me up to do the newsletter , I'll do it no problem just need some help from the racers send me your address information and e mail info at dlatwork@nycap.rr.com

thanks

Kirt sign me and Snyder up for Tech inspectors....right Rob!

Addresses sent from those that attended the March 2008 Organizatoinal Meeting

Kirt sign me and Snyder up for Tech inspectors....right Rob!


Best way to catch a cheat is to hire a cheat......:thumbsup::)

Seriously Id be more then willing to help out!

Kirt i never said that the club was sponsoring the race.all iam saying is club members have no say.as far as meeting,we all have mondays free for racing in latham but we hold meeting on thursday in east greenbush.that makes it tuff for every body to make it.Ijust think the club members should be able to decide on this rule package because not all tracks are going with it.not only that its all supposed to be the same price no matter where you buy but now if your going to the open weel you get a discount.the bull is already starting.

Open sprint car class sounds better and better....

Kirt,

I am so sorry that there are people not very appreciative of your efforts. I know that I have been enjoying this hobby for a very short time in comparison to some, but in that short time that I have been racing, everything has evolved and I think that none of it would have happen without your help and guidance. Both from a club perspective as well As a wonderful racing place during the summer(Competition Hobbies), and now soon to be rain date and winter racing(Science & Hobby). I think that more people need to realize that you are the glue that has held CDRC Racers together for so long. Everyone wants to talk about club this and club that well in my eyes you are the club. I would hate to see you go because of the disrespect of some. I think that there will always be these people regardless. I know that I have not been able to race any and all races nor have I been able to come to all meetings and work nights. But I would never in anyway disrespect you like some have publicly on the forums. I seem to remember a lot of people complaining about the rules that were created for last season but, those complaints were only voiced over the internet, and those people never came to the meetings to talk about how they would like things to be.

I am sorry for venting but it makes me upset that people would treat you this way and not understand all of the hard work that you do and have done to help the club.

-James

As for the new rules I am for them. I race for the hobby not to try and beat the other guy with more money week in and week out. I buys things as they break. Hell I am still running the same batteries from 2 yrs. ago, and running tires that were handme downs.(Thanks Sam) I think that everyone needs to think back as to why they are in this hobby(For FUN!!)

We had a vote at a recent meeting to allow mixed Brushed and Brushless through the winter.

We can have the same vote again for the summer classes If we get everyone's email address - I am sure that we can adopt a motion to allow voting by email. ;)

I personally don't want to see it harder for the new guys to get into racing and I personally would support running mixed Brushless and Brushed through next summer too. This would make it a lot cheaper for the new guys to buy second hand stuff to get started in the entry classes and allow some racers to sell some used stuff.

And - if you haven't signed up yet for the Smallblock Nats - DO IT NOW!
P.S. BH - The only reason we decided to hold the Smallblock Nationals at Masters is because it's closer for the Western NY guys...

- B

I think one of the most important points to the whole new rule change is right now its so hard for a new person to get into racing with so many variables, the spec motor and battery would make it so much easier to get started. Ive got a lot of experience in RC from years ago but the hardest thing for me to grasp in my first summer back is motors and batteries, I never really felt like I understood rebuilding brushed motors every 3 runs and the whole battery game until the very end of the season and I still feel like im down on power most of the time. We definately need to make it easier for new people any way possible.

Call me crazy :freak: and I'm sure that some of you will. What is all complaning about? Most if not all of us in Big Block (and we are the ones who are posting on here for the most part) are going to buy a new 19T brushed motor or 2 each year at $40-$45 each. Right? Now we only need to buy 1 @ $70-$80. It's a push. Now here is where I'm going to save a ton of money, batteries. I was preparing next spring to buy 6 new Nimh packs at an average of $70 each. Lets do that math for a sec, $420+. Yikes! :eek: Now I can buy 1 that's 1 Lipo for $80. Hmmmm, don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to see how much that's going to save me, enough that I'll be able to buy a new Pulsar 3 and a brushless speed control. No, most of us aren't going to travel the country to race our little toy cars, but it certainly would be cool to be on vacation in any town USA with my racing gear in tow and just walk up and throw it down and go. I will be the first to say that I was one of the last hold outs for brushed, but even a blind dog can see where all of this is heading. Hell most of the rest of the country made the change to brushless in other forms of R/C, 3 to 4 years ago.

The Lipo thing works for us because we run 6 cell anyway. The 4 cell carpet racers? Well that's going to probably take another year or so to take effect because of the voltage difference from Nimh to Lipo until they find a solution.

As for the "Club" and all it's "Clubiness". When I think about the club the first thing that comes to my mind is Kirt and how he is the main piece of the puzzle The "God Father" of the club if you will. Please don't take that to mean that I don't realize the efforts of many others who help on a weekly basis. But I'd be willing to wager that the "club" would implode if Kirt were not in the picture. Hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it. So, for all of the "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" that want to be so critical on this whole subject, I guess it's time to either adjust to the new package as I will, OR step up and come up with a better idea that benefits all (the whole Nation) the way that this does.

Oh, I almost forgot. There is one more benefit. This is also going to help out the struggling hobby shops that run this rules package, as they will be the supply line to these new goodies. Not the big companies like Tower, & Stormer that under cut the little guy every day. If the hobby shops can make a profit on these items then the can stay open for, guess what? Racing, and that is why we are all here to race.

I personally want to thank Kirt and all of those who step up on a regular basis to give us a place to play. I wish I had the time to invest in helping more than I do.

"All HAIL Don Coonradt"

Thanks,
John :thumbsup:

I know this was a bit wordy, but it's been brewing in me for a while now.