Should pro level drivers be allowed to run lower classes as a 2nd class? Why or Why Not?

You tell me how exactly someone is determined to be a "PRO" and I'll answer the question

You tell me how exactly someone is determined to be a "PRO" and I'll answer the question

Spot-on point. Other than a select group of racers, how do you "rank" someone? Answer me this as well- we talking at a race like the Birds, Nationals, or club racing?

I believe this is the Biggest problem in oval racing today!

You tell me how exactly someone is determined to be a "PRO" and I'll answer the question

If you Make the A-Main in 10.5 or Mod at the Snowbirds , YOUR A PRO!!!!!!!!

If you have a national championship in 19t, 10.5 or higher ur a pro!!!!!

Weekly racing is different than Big races. Most tracks don't have enough racers to seperate drivers for local racing. But the guys should be running the high class offered.

Interesting thread. I get alot of this pointed at me from time to time. Yes I do run stock, but I also run 13.5 too. But there are reasons for me running these classes. I only get to race 1 or 2 times a month if I Race AT ALL and I dont feel i can compete with Ulbrik,Andy mac,G-honey, Pete D, etc running a VERY limited schedule. Cost is also a factor in the classes I run. Yes i do have sponsers but I still have exspenses coming out of my pocket and the classes I run are the ones I can afford to run. Theres the reasons I run those classes and continue to run those classes.

If you Make the A-Main in 10.5 or Mod at the Snowbirds , YOUR A PRO!!!!!!!!

If you have a national championship in 19t, 10.5 or higher ur a pro!!!!!


so let me get this straight it isn't ok for a guy like Arnie Fie to run 21.5 as a second class. But it is ok for guys like yourself and Jody Miller ( National Champions) to cherry pick the slower classes????

Jody I run carpet like 4 times a year. That don't make it right for me to chery pick. I don't belong in the slower class. and I think that you would be just fine running in 10.5 4 cell or 17.5 lipo with the advent of brushless and lipo classes are getting cheaper to run.

The question should read:

Should a sponsored drivers be allowed to run lower classes as a 2nd class?

Yeah, but again- define "sponsored".

lol yah really I have a few and I am very thankful to them companies but I still have to buy my stuff just like the rest of yah (yah mine is a little cheaper) but nothing is given to me for free. so does that mean I can't run 21.5?

You tell me how exactly someone is determined to be a "PRO"

I don't think the word 'pro', in this particular instance,
means a paid, or fully sponsored driver.
I think what they mean, is the 'top dogs'
in 13.5/10.5..
At the local level.

Who cares about the Birds... or some national event.
That's a one off.
If you go to them, you know what to expect.
If you don't, then you havent been paying attention..

What works for those events, doesn't necessarily transfer
to the 'local shop' trying to make a living with running
weekly racing.. investing all kinds of time and money,
working 70 hours a week, to get a dozen guys on a Wednesday
night to play...
That's like comparing the Daytona 500,
to Hoghead Speedway in Kowturd Nebraska.

Let's not make it too difficult.
Or be too naive.
We know who they are talking about when they say "pro"..

That being said.

This topic comes up all the time, in different flavors,
on all sorts of threads...
I think, it's just too bad that we have to
have the discussion at all..
Every track has their own 'pros'.
They might get their tubes blown
out at a major race, but that's neither here nor there.
And everyone at the track.. knows who they are.
So does the promotor, and the driver himself.
When you hear some of these guys say
"I'm not really that good"....

Do you think everyone is really that gullable?
Do I have "stupid" airbrushed on my forehead?

I became friendly with a guy that has done very well for himself
in the sport, he can go anywhere and be a threat.
He prefers to not run in the lower classes... will run a higher class
if there are even only a couple of guys.
He knows where he should be.
He knows the "intent" of the different classes.
I respect him not only for his ability, but his ethic.
Nobody had to tell him where he belongs...

(sorry for being longwinded again, Alan!)

Having a Pro or a sponsered driver in a class with you should give you incentive to go faster. You will never become better if there isn't someone faster in front of you to try and catch up with. I don't always agree that sponsered drivers get the latest and greatest parts to test that can put the rest of the field at a disatvantage, but I guess they have to get race tested somehow.

Just like any other form of racing, If you pay the entry fee you can race any class you want to, just dont %$#@$ at "less skilled racers" you run against.

For some reason this is the way racing/ sponsership has went. Just think back when Racing was racing we had 2 classes Mod, and Stock, A "MOD" sponsered driver wouldn't be caught dead running stock, And for the most part a a stock driver couldn't get a sponser.

Maybe part of the problem is too many classes,

oh boy, what an awesome thread..... lol.

in my eyes, slower classes means- legends, spec cars, trucks, etc... YOU'RE taking the step into big boy territory if you're running a pan car no matter what motor you're running. racing is racing, how are the slow guys supposed to get fast if they don't race "the pro's"?

thats the way i've looked at it as i've taken steps up the r/c racing ladder. btw, i'm not a pro but i race with them once in a while and i know what i'm in for before i even leave the house in the morning.

Cory

As far as I am concerned...I like it. It makes me work harder to go faster. $.02

~Brad

Jimmy -- what is wrong? You just get power back down there in the Bayou, been bored and had to get some 'net time in?

Hope you came through that storm ok, 'cause you sure caused one here! :D

i hate when these threads come up because it is like beating a dead horse. this question is asked on here 3 times a year.
at most of my somewhat local tracks they only have 17.5 and 13.5 pan car classes. so if i want to run 2 classes at a big race i really wouldnt run a class i was not use to running. say if a "big dog" drives 2-3 hours to go racing and there are 2 10.5 racers and 20-25 13.5 racers. why would anyone drive that far to race with 2 guys?
run what you want!!!!!
but i would say if you are a "big dog" running slower classes at least be helpful trackside.

dan you said just enough....lol
cya soon:wave:

Personally, I am mixed on this subject.

First (as has been mentioned) - DEFINE the 'PRO', and what criteria is to be used to make that determination.

There are what I consider 'PRO' drivers based on TALENT, then there are 'Sponsored Drivers' who have somewhat less 'TALENT'

So I agree, define the PROs, and judge from there....

PROs running in LOWER LEVEL classes are IMHO detrimental to the growth of this hobby.

But, there are guys who some consider the PROs OF those lower classes, and some people think THOSE people should be forced to MOVE UP...but WHAT if THEY DON'T WANT TO? Do they get forced to MOVE UP or QUIT???? Can R/C Oval Racing afford THAT to happen either?

Just dont be a little girl about it and run with the fast guys. If you loose then work harder next time. This thread just leads to splitting up fields that only have 20 to 30 to begin with (if that). At our track there are only about 2 or 3 pan car classes, so why would G-Honey Ritchie Mac, Eric Thomas, and Jesse Bean want to just run against each other in a class by them selves? Just run 13.5 or 21.5 with everyone else, and if you are in the B-main dont bitch because you re not in the A. Life is full of disapointments, if not making the A every week is the biggest one count yourself lucky!!

Joel White

Just my 2 cents here i wouldnt mind a more skilled racer in a lower class from time to time i dont think anyone has ever learned anything from a less experienced driver maybe some of those better guys are running in a lower class to help some less skilled guys thats just me i understand fully as to how some people wouldnt like it buts its just like real time racing if you can afford it jump right in Big example The Nascar Busch Wackers!the complain yes but they still learn at the same time

My opinion on it is that the Pro guys run the fastest class at most races. I dont mind them droping down and running the next slowest class (10.5 and 13.5 or Mod and 10.5). But they should never drop farther than that in my opinion.

EA

Flash - good post! I don't like it when a 'pro' runs a slower class then yells at the drivers in that class. Kind of the same discusison with Nationwide and Cup, and Craftsman Trucks for that matter. If the rules are made simple and can cater to anyone 'fairly' then kinda hard to seperate. Dale Jr. winning the Truck championship vs. Cup doesn't hold the same weight... so hopefully racers race where they feel comfortable....

Flash - good post! I don't like it when a 'pro' runs a slower class then yells at the drivers in that class. Kind of the same discusison with Nationwide and Cup, and Craftsman Trucks for that matter.

DING DING DING.... Mike HITS it on the HEAD. It's NOT getting 'BEAT' by a Pro that pisses most of the lower guys off - that part is challenging.

What gripes a LOT of the guys who have given ME input on this deal is

THEY Don't like getting YELLED at, cause they are running in THEIR class and Some 'So Called PRO' doesn't like having to PASS WITH CARE the slow car...and PLOWS THEM and/or YELLS at them.

IT'S NOT GETTING BEAT - It's the RUDENESS that comes along with it, and the ATTITUDES. EVERYONE knows the Pro will most likely WIN or worse SLAUGHTER the normal field...but do you really have to put the slow guys down by laps AND drive up their butts too boot, then complain because THEY are on the track....then wonder WHY nobody wants to race with them in their FAST CLASS and they only have 2-3 people to compete against.

For some reason this is the way racing/ sponsership has went. Just think back when Racing was racing we had 2 classes Mod, and Stock, A "MOD" sponsered driver wouldn't be caught dead running stock, And for the most part a a stock driver couldn't get a sponser.

Maybe part of the problem is too many classes,
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AMEN!...
.
I truly believe you see these threads come out once in a while for the following reason.....At my LHS...(until it closed) I was in the A Main 95 % of the time......I have a few small sponsorships...However when I go to a large event I am usually in the B...or C.........The more sponsored drivers or "Big Guns" I can race against the more I like it becasue it makes me work harder to qaulify higher.....
.
I truly believe the ones who start these discussions are the ones who think they could be the next great thing until they get lapped a few times by someone who knows what they are doing.....Then they will complain
How about if we sop complaining and be glad we have a place to race and
people are showing up at the event!.
.
Besides with brushless and everyone being able to purchase the same motors and batteries as everyone else it shouldn't even be in the discussion....The real reason you may be getting lapped a few times is because your chassis needs work.......it not because John doe gets 40 %
off a set of white rear tires.....Remember...this is a hobby!

DING DING DING.... Mike HITS it on the HEAD. It's NOT getting 'BEAT' by a Pro that pisses most of the lower guys off - that part is challenging.

What gripes a LOT of the guys who have given ME input on this deal is

THEY Don't like getting YELLED at, cause they are running in THEIR class and Some 'So Called PRO' doesn't like having to PASS WITH CARE the slow car...and PLOWS THEM and/or YELLS at them.

IT'S NOT GETTING BEAT - It's the RUDENESS that comes along with it, and the ATTITUDES. EVERYONE knows the Pro will most likely WIN or worse SLAUGHTER the normal field...but do you really have to put the slow guys down by laps AND drive up their butts too boot, then complain because THEY are on the track....then wonder WHY nobody wants to race with them in their FAST CLASS and they only have 2-3 people to compete against.
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If thats the case when Mr. Big Gun starts yelling at you put his car in the wall and tell him oops!..sorry Im not a good as you....or just laugh!:woohoo:

Flash - good post! I don't like it when a 'pro' runs a slower class then yells at the drivers in that class.
Amen to that!!!!! :thumbsup:

IT'S NOT GETTING BEAT - It's the RUDENESS that comes along with it, and the ATTITUDES. EVERYONE knows the Pro will most likely WIN or worse SLAUGHTER the normal field...but do you really have to put the slow guys down by laps AND drive up their butts too boot, then complain because THEY are on the track....then wonder WHY nobody wants to race with them in their FAST CLASS and they only have 2-3 people to compete against.

Couldnt have said it better my self. You are 100% right.

I agree. If the fast guys are going to run the slower class, they need to realiz that they may get beat up a bit. For the most part I think they realize that. I know when I drop down to slower classes I try to help others out. Maybe tell them to follow my line, or try their car and help them with setup.

Just dont be a little girl about it and run with the fast guys....Life is full of disapointments, if not making the A every week is the biggest one count yourself lucky!!

Joel White

Well said!!:thumbsup:

What bugs me is how hypocritical guys are about this. I think it's funny when a guy won't step up to a faster class because he'll get beat, but at the same time will happily step down and pound on lower level guys and then tell them to get over it.

The other thing that bugs me is we keep creating a million classes to offer something to the begginer or less competitive racer, but then these new classes just end up populated with the same old guys anyway. If there isn't going to be a talent differentiation between the classes then why have all these extra classes.

I didn't bother to vote, because the options are too vague. Whether it is ok or not depends on the situation and in the end you're not going to force anyone to race a class if they don't want to, you just have to hope people make the right choice.

I don't have a problem with this. I ran stock at Sandhills for a few years. I had a really good season one year and Fabio asked me if I would move up for the weekly races. I did and started running the Arrcor 19t class.Ran that for a couple of years and than didn't have anyone to run with. G Honey realized I was his son(LOL) so he took me under his wing and I started running mod. I got my but wipped every Sat. I kept coming back for more. I TQed one Sat and all the hard work finailly paid off. I really think running with the fast (pro) guys helps you alot. It just seems people always look for an excuse. Just my 3 1/2 cents worth.

Ritcie Mac

In my opinion there are slower classes at a lot of tracks that are meant to be fun. These aren't classes you'd usually see at ROAR, BRL, Snowbirds or any other major event. When a "pro" driver races one of these classes, what does that really say about them? Are they NOT having fun in the class they are supposed to be able to compete in? Are they having a bad day and need to beat-up on the slow guys for an ego boost? Do they think we honestly buy the "I need more track time" argument?

If a "pro" drops down at a National event to run a second class, I think that is fine. I would expect to race against the best when I go to any big event regardless of the class. But when a "pro" drops down to a fun class at a club race or local trophy race (for whatever reason) and dominates the field, they can end up doing more damage to the class than good. And if the "pro" would show a little respect when they drop down, I don't think you'd see this type of thread pop up as often.

One last thing to consider. If you are a racer who is motivated by being beat to do better, then you might consider moving up to the "pro" class.

Soon, when oval is on the verge on extinction, talent level won't matter...cause everyone will just be happy to not be running their cars in their driveways. Good job, another productive thread. :rolleyes:

Good job, another productive thread. :rolleyes:

EXACTLY!! TOTALLY WORTHLESS!

If you Make the A-Main in 10.5 or Mod at the Snowbirds , YOUR A PRO!!!!!!!!

If you have a national championship in 19t, 10.5 or higher ur a pro!!!!!

Arnie Fie604:01.65,Frank Ulbrik604:01.80,Pete D'Agnolo604:02.52,Andy McClellan604:03.85,Greg Honeycutt594:00.44,Steve Salvas594:02.64,Sean Cochran584:00.62,Jamie Hanson584:03.13,BUMP 1574:00.89,Josh Cyrul

Haven't seen many of these guys cherrypick lately...tell me again what the problem is?

Steve Salvas is the only one I know of that runs 17.5 occasionaly, but never heard anyone complain.

We should talk more about the 15 Snowbirds classes up for discussion. :drunk:

I want to start out this post by saying that there are to many classes. A way to lower them at this time in the hobby will be difficult. But what is the right number of class???? Is it just an opinion for the type of racing you do????

Winning is not every thing for me. Some of the most fun I have in racing is when I can run a close race with another racer my caliber. When racing in a faster class or with drivers of a better ability , I find myself having to move over to much. I am not racing. I am surviving, not learning and the fun factor drops.

I don't mind if a so called pro runs in my class. They want to race also. I can say most have not said something if in a crash ( you may get a hard look from them, but most say to forget about it). My problem is I feel bad about messing up some ones race.

What is wrong with trying to have fun in this hobby at ones ability level, budget, time able to spend working and racing. After 20+ years, I just want to be at the track ( big races included) and run my car. To read most of the post on this thread, racers like me, who pay their own way, support track owners and big events and manufactures, should be happy to allow others to have more racers to boast about beating. Should we just stay home and not support the big event, or maybe just get out all together??????

I do not think any one should have to race a class they do not want to, no matter what they may have accomplished. Only the racer knows what they are looking for in this hobby. Beating the best racer in any class is a challenge. Why do some racers think that a slower speed, or less expensive class should always be called a beginner class. Most beginners run a the local level in a local type class, until they reach the ability for competing in a class that a big race offers.

This is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

In my opinion the number of classes is pretty simple.

Fast Class
Medium Class
Slow Class
(I'm referring to speed of the car)

Fast class is for your "pros" (still hate that term) to run in without having to watch out for someone 6 laps off the pace.

Medium class is for everyone to come together in and try their luck against each other.

Slow class is for the less competitive racer who doesn't want to have to move over 15 times a qualifier.

Then once you establish these classes you have to expect people to seed themselves where they belong, and to be honest in most cases I can think of it is fairly obvious one way or the other.

The thing that throws a monkey wrench in this right now is there is no "slow" LiPO class at the moment.

I have to agree with jason. Why are we even having this discussion. Is there a problem somewhere at a local track?I've been to alot of big races the last few years and I haven't heard anyone complain about cherrypickers. I think everyone pretty much races in the classes they are comfortable with.

this topic comes up every year!

my take is this...85% of the country is a bunch of sissy girly men!

in florida the top guys all run 10.5 4 cell or 17.5 lipo

in the rest of the country you pansies all run 4 cell 13.5 or 21.5 lipo


as far as we (florida) is concerned you all are a bunch of cherry picking girly men with huge manginas!;)

the slow guys should be trying to take your training wheel off your cars and pushing you towards a faster class! man up and bolt in a little horse power will ya! very few of you guys even run a fast class so you have no moving down to do!

why????
i dont equate speed with having fun.
we race!! have fun!!

And in the previous scene, Katf1sh pulls out a huge spoon in which to stir the pot.

We now return you to the same ol' thing, different year.

Spoon...err...shaft, still stirring...LOL:lol:

this topic comes up every year!

my take is this...85% of the country is a bunch of sissy girly men!

in florida the top guys all run 10.5 4 cell or 17.5 lipo

in the rest of the country you pansies all run 4 cell 13.5 or 21.5 lipo


as far as we (florida) is concerned you all are a bunch of cherry picking girly men with huge manginas!;)

the slow guys should be trying to take your training wheel off your cars and pushing you towards a faster class! man up and bolt in a little horse power will ya! very few of you guys even run a fast class so you have no moving down to do!

All you guys have to race on is outside Super Speedways. We have the short tracks and bullrings. No need for missles on these kinds tracks!!! :thumbsup:

i know it hurts...and once a month it hurts a lil more..but fellas your don't even run 10.5 what class are you moving down into?

with what i'm reading if you make the A main at the birds in open mod you can only run open mod....

if you win open mod at the birds you must retire

And in the previous scene, Katf1sh pulls out a huge spoon in which to stir the pot.

We now return you to the same ol' thing, different year.

You didnt know he always carrys a spoon in his thong??? JK KAT ;)

andy we run 80 foot run line carpet tracks and very low bite tennic court 110 foot run line tracks outdoors...we still run 10.5 with no problems...if the track can't handle a 4 cell 10.5 car it may be just a bit too small? we are lucky to have some great tracks and bean and boylan to get them in racing order...we do have it good! if we didn't have the 10.5 class most of us would look for something else to do...i hate running with the 13.5 guys it just drives me nuts with the not going straight on the straights...

The thing that throws a monkey wrench in this right now is there is no "slow" LiPO class at the moment.



But, does there HAVE to be a SLOW Lipo Class? Since it's supposed to be "The Slow Class" why not let that class STAY with 4 cell NiMh - and limit the mAh, to some type of SPEC pack (and NOT those crappy 1600 mAh spec. packs) but something STABLE and with a more realistic mAh rating.

That in itself gives 3 classes that can be offered w/ just 2 motors...and having a USED motor market for the 17.5's that have been run w/ LIPO gives the lower 4 cell 17.5 guys a USED market to buy from...and lets the TOP DOGS keep their equipment fresher.