I have tread dread. Though the rest of the kit is astounding in it's accuracy and detail, the treads leave much to be desired. Is anyone planning on an after market accurate set of treads, preferably made from styrene with an accurate level of detail?
there should be gaps between the "cleats"-

Probably resin tracks would be best. They can be cast flat and then heated to bend around the suspension. The type of track used on the Snowcat doesn't really work well with seperate links since the real track is a continuous band. The (poor) Lunar Models tracks ere done this way.

Some new resin wheels and sprockets would be nice too. The real vehicle has the suspension mounted on torsion bars as well, and the long tubes that support the kit wheels are not on the real vehicle.

The two most obvious weak links in the model, IMHO, are the treads and the curtains.

The treads in the kit look ok, but only if you don't directly compare them to a picture of the original.

At the least I'm thinking I should weather the treads in some way, to tone down that dark black color. It makes the model look too toyish.

Not sure how to go about it, as I said in an earlier post I am not that familiar with rubber parts. Haven't got a clue what paints would work on it.

How many people would be interested in cloth curtains? I've got a buddy who does phenomenal scale cloth for various scale naval flags and ensigns. (His system eliminates all that pesky fraying one gets from just cutting plain old cloth.) Between the two of us, we could work up the perfect set - but I won't bother if there isn't enough call for it. Let me know ...

I'm just planning on accordioning some lengths of grey duct tape to simulate the curtains. I will make them look a little more realisticallly "disheveled"/imperfect

I liked the idea of cut and gathered "space blanket" type curtains.. there is also silver spandex like material you can buy from cloth stores, and in craft sections like walmart.

...Probably resin tracks would be best. They can be cast flat and then heated to bend around the suspension...

I think that sounds good, for a static model.

For an RC model, tracks built much like the prototype would probably run best. That is, stamped or cast metal cleats, including the road wheel teeth, pinned or riveted to flexible plastic strip, using metal plates. Of course, the road wheels would need to be accurized also.

I'm just planning on accordioning some lengths of grey duct tape to simulate the curtains. I will make them look a little more realisticallly "disheveled"/imperfect

The only thing with duct tape is it has a possability of going "off" at least the stuff over here does.

How many people would be interested in cloth curtains? I've got a buddy who does phenomenal scale cloth for various scale naval flags and ensigns. (His system eliminates all that pesky fraying one gets from just cutting plain old cloth.) Between the two of us, we could work up the perfect set - but I won't bother if there isn't enough call for it. Let me know ...

Sounds good to me. :thumbsup:

I was thinking of using some thin a4 printer or craft paper sprayed with a light film of dull coat dry brushed silver then creased and folded up. And since my chariot isn't gonna be here for a couple of more weeks I can experiment. Something else I have used in the past is the foil from wine/champagne bottles it always did well to make capes n similar in my wargaming models.

Just my thoughts.:wave:

The two most obvious weak links in the model, IMHO, are the treads and the curtains.

The treads in the kit look ok, but only if you don't directly compare them to a picture of the original.

At the least I'm thinking I should weather the treads in some way, to tone down that dark black color. It makes the model look too toyish.

Not sure how to go about it, as I said in an earlier post I am not that familiar with rubber parts. Haven't got a clue what paints would work on it.

Most flexible acrylic paints work on rubber as long as it dosn't get moved about to much. Thin layers work better and make sure the rubber is really well scrubbed and dry. depending on how porus the rubber is you can use inks and stains as well.

Aircraft tissue will work best and give the best scale effect, it's thin is easily workable into folds and can be hung along thin strands of bell wire. Tracks are another matter, I plan on making a master from cut strips of Evergreen styrene, adding the buttons between the tires, a six inch strip should suffice, then cast the thing in resin in two sections for the 12 inch length. Piece of cake!

Aircraft tissue will work best and give the best scale effect, it's thin is easily workable into folds and can be hung along thin strands of bell wire...
Do the airplane coverings come in silver color?

Do the airplane coverings come in silver color?

Yes Easybuilt models sells it. But basically you can get silver tissue in Wal Mart, etc in with wrapping paper, etc. It is essentially the same stuff and cheaper. The Easybuilt stuff handles glue etc better. The Wal Mart paper discolors when wet or damp.

I think that sounds good, for a static model.

For an .

I don't see this making a good motorized model. If you did want to run it the vinyl kit tracks would be ok. Its not really practical to have super detailed AND workable tracks... one or the other but not both.

has any tried just using folded up aluminum foil for the curtains?

maybe with a light wash of black to bring out the detail?

seems to me the best approximation of foil is foil.:wave:

That was my initial idea.. but I'd use the back side, (less shiny), and maybe even some of the aluminum foil with a slight texture to it.

I like the foil idea- it gives you the most control. A mist of dull coat should get the texture.

I posted a sketch of the Chariots tread at:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=181293
and my best picture of the Chariot's treads at
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=64565&d=1218994476

or use Bare Metal Foil.

...my best picture of the Chariot's treads at
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=64565&d=1218994476

Is this picture series-contemporaneous? The tracks appear silver here.

Roy

Just look a the man's suit and you will get your answer..... It looks very sixtyish to me...

Gaétan

Note also the wheels are silver, and you can clearly see the wheels/tires are about 1/3 the depth of the bloated kit tires.

Notice also that about every three feet is a large bar across the track like a traction grouser.

i need to watch the Angry Sea tonight, probly the best shot of the curtans. i never relized they were silver.and dont forget the dent in the right front of the chassis

Hungry Sea?

He's the man who wrote the pilot. Would have been taken in 1964.

Thank you.

Were any changes made to the chariot between the first pilot, and the series? Or, for that matter, during the series? For instance, were there any color changes?

Thank you.

Were any changes made to the chariot between the first pilot, and the series? Or, for that matter, during the series? For instance, were there any color changes?

I mentioned this before... its obvious there are some color and detail changes. Like the Robot, the Chariot was probably touched up for Season 2 when the show switched to color. If you notice in Season 1, the robot has silver claws, silver chest plate and the spinning things on his neck are silver. There are photos of the Chariot showing silver wheels. The box the scanner mounts on may have been orange at some point. The full size Chariot also did not nececarilly match the various filming miniatures.

...Like the Robot, the Chariot was probably touched up for Season 2 when the show switched to color...

Just what I was thinking! Lemme try this again: what changes, specifically, were made to the full-size chariot, and when?

The tracks should be the same red color as the Chariot framing and chassis. Only the rubber belts that hold them together are black on the real snowcats. They should be rubbed silver on the edges and weathered with an earth tone dust for that "used" look.

Its obvious from color photos that the LiS Chariot tracks aren't red.

There is something wacky about the seats in this Chariot kit also. Not sure what they were based on but the full scale prop used a type of injection molded plastic patio chair for the passenger seats. If you watch the show you can see that the attachment points for the four metal legs are still hanging down under the seats. The studio removed the metal legs and mounted the seat to a single metal post which probably swiveled (I'm not certain that they swiveled). When I was a kid we had some of those same chairs so I'm quite familiar with them. They were molded in a vinyl-like plastic that was a good color match for "Irwin Allen Orange" (although they may have been sold in other colors too but ours were orange like the ones the studio used). In form they looked very much like the Burke chairs used on Star Trek but were flexible instead of being ridged. I'm not sure about the drivers chairs but the Chariot would have used whatever came standard in the original Spryte snowcats I'm sure. To me, this looks like another good opportunity for some after-market accurizing kit parts.

On the track color, look again. The miniature was built to match the full scale in color and red is how the Spryte tracks come from the factory. Once again, the belts that connect the cross pieces are black but the metal pieces are red.

Admittedly it is difficult to see clearly but I think you can see the red metal bars and the black belts in this shot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pwbroad/chariot09.jpg

The miniature does NOT match the full size Chariot, at least at all times. There are notable detail differences. The full size vehicle does not have red tracks. At least they weren't red by the time the vehicle was converted for the show. There are clear color photos showing silver or weathered tracks but no red.

I'll be darned. The red treads on the miniature are obvious, but I never noticed that in the full scale before. But if you look at the side shot of the Chariot with the kids sitting in it, there is a hint of red on the treads top front and top back. Of course, that probably would have been worn and weathered really quickly, but that is a very cool possibility. And would make for a spectacularly difficult paint job. I must try it as soon as I finish building the treads. Which may take years. Sigh.
No the miniature didn't match the full size all the time. The full size didn't match the full size all the time either. Just watched The Hungry Sea. The is no way they could get cameras, lights, sound, water hoses and drains into the "real" Chariot. There had to have been a second one, with wild sections, at least for the interior. Which explains why there are two interiors.
Would they have built the "real" Chariot with all the computers, etc? Remember in an early episode when the giant electric tumbleweed runs into it and blows its circuits. Supposedly there is a classic LIS blooper there where the Chariots power cable(s) is(are) visible. Would the off-road Chariot have needed a giant extension cord or might it have been pretty bare bones and they have saved all the flashing lights and wild sections for a water resistant prop version?
Okay, not going to mention anything more about 2 Chariots.

I have to wonder why the Fox miniature department would have bothered to put red tracks on the miniature if not for the purpose of replicating the paint scheme of the full scale mock-up.

Hey guys

At first, I considered X15 track hypothesis heresy but I went to check my images bank and he is right the tracks looks red....... I don't know how to post pics here but I could send it to one of you, so he could post it for all....

Gaétan

At first, I considered X15 track hypothesis heresy

You obviously have no idea who you're dealing with, lol.

Send the images to me if you like. I'd be happy post them (PM me first, and I'll forward my email addy).

In the meantime, I stumbled upon this shot in a related HT thread...

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/idMonster/Chariot20w-kids.jpg

Seems pretty apparent the raised areas are (a dirty) reddish-orange.

First picture is another view of the same miniature. You're looking at rust. Second picture is of the actual Spryte tracks. The steel is either painted, or, more likely, chemically blackened. From Phil Broad's site.

Are you suggesting the orange coloration seen on the tracks in this image is due to rust?

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/idMonster/Chariot20w-kids.jpg

Knowing Phil, I'd be very surprised if he was pulling the info quoted below out of his, uh, behind. :)

red is how the Spryte tracks come from the factory.

Are you suggesting the orange coloration seen on the tracks in this image is due to rust?

No, it looks more like a reflection from shiny areas, where the blackening has worn off.

Knowing Phil, I'd be very surprised if he was pulling the info quoted below out of his, uh, behind. :)

...red is how the Spryte tracks come from the factory...

The chariot was not a standard Snowcat that was modified; it was built special by the manufacturer- including the paint. I can't remember where I read that, unfortunately.

No, it looks more like a reflection from shiny areas, where the blackening has worn off.

Boy, are we reading that image differently.

Ah, well, fortunately we're free to paint our respective Chariots whatever color we chose.

Based on the info posted herein, the raised areas on my treads will be a weathered reddish orange.

Reflection in the kids photo was my first thought but the treads on the 24" are red. The second photo above of the tracks is of the inside of the tracks and in all photos (I think) the inside surfaces appear uniformly dark. It's the outer surfaces, the... what are they? - treads? cleats? that could be red.
As for posting attachments, if you've got jpgs, just make sure they're less than about 80k (if they're bigger, go to Save As and save them as a different file name (to your desktop is the easiest way of finding them for posting) and when it asks you file size, go smaller), then go Post Reply, Go Advanced, Manage Attachments, Browse to find your attachment, click on it, and press Upload. Soon you will need 11 different identities and still be constantly deleting past attachments in order to squeeze in just one more. (I will clean up this mess someday.)
I'm constantly amazed by how many photos there are of things like the Chariot that crop up out of the blue. And I'm sure that most of these b&w photos we see everywhere exist in color, too. What happened to people like Phil Lubin and Flint Mitchell and why aren't they here?

...Based on the info posted herein, the raised areas on my treads will be a weathered reddish orange.

Mine will be black, with silver or steel dry-brushed on the steel high points. I want mine to look like the full-size chariot, at the time of the show. Although, it's possible that the tracks were silver colored, early in the series.

OK, hold your horses here everyone and take a breath.

First, the Chariot was NOT based on a custom-made chassis (nor did it have "custom paint". Don't where that "whopper" came from...)! It WAS however a custom BODY on a standard factory-made Thiokol "Spryte" chassis. As for color, these snow-cats came in any color the customer wanted, as long as he wanted it "orange" (to paraphrase...).

I AM "Phil Broad" of the aforementioned web site and the close-up shot of the tracks was taken by me around 1978-79 at the "China Peak" ski resort at Huntington Lake in the Sierra mountains. True, those tracks were NOT painted, they looked to be bare steel or possibly galvanized steel. It is very likely that Thiokol stopped painting the tracks by that time to save costs of manufacture. HOWEVER, old '60s vintage "Sprytes" HAD painted tracks. Obviously I'm the only one here who regularly searches for these snow-cats on Ebay. I highly recommend it as a source for photos of just about anything but over the years, many of these vehicles have been sold there and the sellers usually provide very nice pictures (which I save). This is where you can see these details most often. China Peak had another copy there of the Spryte that still had the painted tracks, this is not something that is in question, there are many other examples all around the country.

Finally, the miniature tracks are NOT red from "rust". Good grief, to you really think that they made the model out of steel?? How likely is it that it would rust so uniformly from one edge to another on EVERY piece? To me, this part of the discussion is like arguing with "UFO" or "Big Foot" believers over their latest "theory". Those miniature tracks were made of soldered brass or copper (most likely brass for better strength) but not steel. Even if they were made of steel, the rust would be much darker in tone and not coincidently a similar shade to that of the orange painted portions. Don't you guys think so?

The reason the tracks frequently appear "black" in many photos is simply because they are usually in shadow.

Of course, this does leave us with a difficult detail to paint on the kit...

Jeez Phil, it took you long enough. ;)

...I AM "Phil Broad" of the aforementioned web site and the close-up shot of the tracks was taken by me around 1978-79...True, those tracks were NOT painted, they looked to be bare steel or possibly galvanized steel. It is very likely that Thiokol stopped painting the tracks by that time to save costs of manufacture. HOWEVER, old '60s vintage "Sprytes" HAD painted tracks...China Peak had another copy there of the Spryte that still had the painted tracks, this is not something that is in question, there are many other examples all around the country...

Hi Phil,

And thanks for all your support, to all us modelers. I must differ about the later tracks being bare or galvanized, as both finishes are a silvery metallic color. Until, that is, they start rusting- which would be quickly, if made of completely unfinished, bare(non-stainless) steel. No, they would have an industrial chemical blackening, or black paint.

I don't question, or care, that regular Snowcat tracks may have been painted red at the time the chariot was built. The chariot was a "special order", and understood to be a Hollywood sci-fi screen prop. If Allen wanted the tracks in glow-in-the-dark green, I don't think the maker would have said no- having accepted the rest of the project.

Finally, the miniature tracks are NOT red from "rust"...(d)o you really think that they made the model out of steel?? How likely is it that it would rust so uniformly from one edge to another on EVERY piece?...Those miniature tracks were made of soldered brass or copper (most likely brass for better strength) but not steel. Even if they were made of steel, the rust would be much darker in tone and not coincidently a similar shade to that of the orange painted portions. Don't you guys think so?

The reason the tracks frequently appear "black" in many photos is simply because they are usually in shadow...

I posted the pic I did(which needs to be clicked for full enlargement) specifically to show the uneven finish. I don't know when those shots were taken, but if enough years had passed since the prop's making, even blackened steel would have a uniform "light" rusting, and likely patches of deeper rust, too- as appears to me to be the case here. The square tubular cleats are clearly made of a thin gauge metal. Mild steel that thin would not be that hard to work. On the other hand, K&S make such tubing in brass today(don't know about the time the prop was made.)

I will need more compelling evidence that the chariot tracks, or a portion thereof, were painted red or orange, and depicted as such typically on "Lost in Space" episode footage.

The bigger issue than what color the tracks were (I still don't think they were red or were red for long as color photos clearly show them NOT red) is the kit tracks bear absolutely no resemblence to the real thing, nor do the kit wheels and the whole design of the suspension itself. I'm not sure how the suspension of the kit was designed but aside from the number of wheels it is 110% inaccurate in scale, detail, proportions etc.

Duplicate post below: