Got six Chariots today from my wholesaler... four had BAD tire melt. The rubber tires are packed loose in the bag with the hull parts and had melted into the silver plastic. Real bummer. Whatever they used for the black tires (and tracks?) is not plastic friendly. This potentially can be a problem with the wheels as well when you fit the tires.

Anyone else have this problem??

Oh poo! Not good news!

Has anyone warned Moebius about this problem.:(

Here is a spot on the hull tub with marks from the tires and tracks. The marks are mushy - oil from the tires and tracks has melted into the styrene piece.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/djnick66/007.jpg

Hull end with track marks...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/djnick66/006.jpg

Moebius should look into this...

Putty and sanding should take care of this.Might have been left in the hot sun too long.alexander

If replacements are needed, we'll get them out as soon as possible. We'll check with China on the problem.

That is bad news!! I've ran across this problem with some old Aurora armor kits from the 60's. The rubber tracks loose in the boxes melt into the plastic- must be something with the soft rubber. I hope if you have a bad Chariot kit they will replace the damaged parts.
Steve

Please alert Moebius now. As soon as they are aware of the problem it can be addressed.

Moebius has already seen the post and replied. Hats off to the quick response from a top notch company who cares about its product and customers.

Glad I came on here today! Just bought a kit at my LHS today, saw this and quickly checked and, yep, some damage. Not as bad as what was pictured above, though, and it looks like it is in a place that will be hidden. But, spending 50 bucks on a kit, it's still a little upsetting. (The damage, not the price!!) (And , yes, I know I could have gotten it cheaper on-line, but I occasionally like to show my support for the LHS!!)

Wayne

Thanks Frank.alexander

Putty and sanding should take care of this.Might have been left in the hot sun too long.alexander

Well yes but 1) a new kit shouldnt come melted 2) car companies like AMT and Revell solved the tire melt problem in the 70s 3) How are you going to get anything delivered to you without it being in a truck? 4) if you are one not to paint a model that is molded in the base color, you are kind of stuck.

I will have to wait a while to apply putty. In the past I have found that if you putty over a tire burn that is still soft, it will just be soft under the putty, and get all hairy when you try to sand it down.

For me it sucks becaues out of six kits, four are unsalable (well one doesnt count becuase its mine)...

I've come across this issue before. It's called vinyl melt. When you build your kit, one thing you should do is put some sort of barrier between the vinyl and styrene. Not having seen the parts breakdown, one thing I can recommend is spreading a thick layer of superglue between the wheelrims and any other points of contact before assembling. I've done this and it definitely works for me.
It's a fairly common occurrence in older kits where the vinyl parts are in contact with styrene and is a good reason to check old kits and make sure the vinyl parts are kept seperate. I haven't seen it happen so quickly before but it'll be a fault of the Chinese manufacturer, not Frank, and I'm positive he'll sort the problem out quickly. :thumbsup:

Chris.:)

Moebius has already seen the post and replied. Hats off to the quick response from a top notch company who cares about its product and customers.

I never doubted they wouldn't be on top of it :dude: It just sucks when stuff like this pops up...

I'm sure the chinese just couldn't see the parts very clearly through the smog and pollution...

I'm sure the chinese just couldn't see the parts very clearly through the smog and pollution...
Their smog and pollution probably catalyzed the reaction...:freak:

I'm sure the problem will be taken care of - who could predict a problem with the vinyl tires? A shame frank has to deal with a problem right off the bat with such a cool kit.

...who could predict a problem with the vinyl tires?...
Well, these first-run chariots are now instant collectibles. :dude:

I hope future non self-dissolving kits will be marked as such.

I think that I need to speak up in defense of our Chinese partner. I have worked with the factory in China that is producing our kits for many years. These people work very hard to produce a quality product, and they have years of experience producing model kits.

They produced tens of thousands of car kits for Polar Lights - every kit had PVC tires and styrene bodies. We NEVER had problems with PVC tires reacting with styrene parts.
I have a good selection of Polar Lights car kits and test shots in my stash, I have just been checking some of them - not one has any sign of this problem.

We have been in contact with our Chinese partner and they tell me that they have not changed sources of raw materials and they are as puzzled by this as I am. They suspect that the silver coloring powder used in the plastic may be contributing to this problem but do not really know.

They are running replacement plastic parts for us as quickly as they can. We will provide more information as soon as we have it to give.

Thank you for your patience

Dave

Ouch yeah I just got mine and one of the tires was stuck hard had to use my Gerber pliers to get it off , but still :woohoo: I finally have a MODEL CHARIOT im so happy. Heck Im gonna Leave the marks and just say its damage from the old girl getting packed and unpacked by the Robinson's so many times ;)


Moebius thanks for making a childhood kit dream come true!

Cameron

Plasticizer migration. Happens.

Thanks Dave, Sorry this had to happen to you fellows. Hopefully it wont cost Moebius to much $$$ to get the problem fixed. I remember the vinyl in the old Marx action figures would melt hard plastic, it took years though. This is quick! A month or so? I wonder if their supplier changed the formula. I'm sure they will get to the bottom of this. Thanks again for your efforts, and again my sincere condolences. I wouldnt wish this on anyone...well...maybe Lapco..

I wouldnt wish this on anyone...well...maybe Lapco..

:p

Chris.:)

Ouch yeah I just got mine and one of the tires was stuck hard had to use my Gerber pliers to get it off ..

uh-oh, I don't have gerber plyers! I hope my Craftsman plyers will work!



:D

uh-oh, I don't have gerber plyers! I hope my Craftsman plyers will work!


Sorry John, Craftsman wont cut the mustard, You need to go out and get some new ones. BWAAAHAAHAAAA

As Dave mentioned, we are getting parts made now. We should have replacements soon. As of yet, no one has e-mailed for replacements. Feel free to let me know by e-mail at the website if you do need them, and they will be sent out as soon as we receive. Please don't message me here, as there is only so much room in the mailbox and it fills very quickly.

I appreciate someone posting this to warn builders of a potential problem, but it would probably be as constructive to let us know directly so we can address it. Thanks again, Frank.

Your a good man Frank! Hopefully you will get the parts made for free, since it was Chinas fault. Still a big PITA, but youve handled it well. Hats off to you!

I think that I need to speak up in defense of our Chinese partner. I have worked with the factory in China that is producing our kits for many years. These people work very hard to produce a quality product, and they have years of experience producing model kits.

They produced tens of thousands of car kits for Polar Lights - every kit had PVC tires and styrene bodies. We NEVER had problems with PVC tires reacting with styrene parts.
I have a good selection of Polar Lights car kits and test shots in my stash, I have just been checking some of them - not one has any sign of this problem.

We have been in contact with our Chinese partner and they tell me that they have not changed sources of raw materials and they are as puzzled by this as I am. They suspect that the silver coloring powder used in the plastic may be contributing to this problem but do not really know.



They are running replacement plastic parts for us as quickly as they can. We will provide more information as soon as we have it to give.

Thank you for your patience

Dave

We appreciate the effort to correct whatever is going on, Dave.

uh-oh, I don't have gerber plyers! I hope my Craftsman plyers will work!



:D

Use your teeth.:p

Your a good man Frank! Hopefully you will get the parts made for free, since it was Chinas fault. Still a big PITA, but youve handled it well. Hats off to you!

Thanks Otto! There is no cost for the parts, but as you say, it is a big PITA. We hate to have a product out that has a problem, especially something we've all been waiting so long to see. We're actually a year into this project, and to see it come in with a problem is a little depressing. As with everything else, it is a learning experience for us. China as well! As Dave mentioned, this never happened with any of the PL car kits. The Chinese have told us it is the exact same formula that has been in use. Possibly the pigments to make the silver caused it as Dave stated. We'll get it resolved!

This is not unlike the fogged Mach 5 windshield incident, and is being handled with equal class. :)

Frank,
thanks for your concern and the quick action to correct the issue, no one could have predicted what happened, one suggestion would be to see if china could wrap the tires in a separate bag, or wrap it with tissue for future shipments. I have bought a few car models that were packaged that way.
Don't worry about this little glitch you guys produce the best models anyone could have dreamed for and I for one look forward to buying more of your wonderful products in the future.
Best wishes for continual success.
Mike

Question: on an assembled chariot, will a layer of paint and lacquer on the wheels protect them from possible melt through contact with the treads?

I just hope no one in China dies over this, or ends up in prison, like last time.

On second thought, NOBODY SNIFF OR LICK THOSE CHARIOT PARTS! :drunk:

There is no evidence that this is not an isolated incident.There are many reasons why this might have happen,one might be that a few cases were left in a hot container too long.From what I have been reading,it seems to be in Fla.that this is happening.Jumping to conclusions is not fact,it is speculation.alexander

There is no evidence that this is not an isolated incident...

You mean the Chinese are trying to kill "Lost in Space" modellers? :eek:

There are many reasons why this might have happen,one might be that a few cases were left in a hot container too long.From what I have been reading,it seems to be in Fla.that this is happening.Jumping to conclusions is not fact,it is speculation.alexander

Heat may exacerbate it but it can happen just as easily in a cool, dark place. The chemicals that make vinyls flexible leech out and go where they're not supposed to...like into rigid styrene they're in prolonged contact with. The styrene takes on the plasticizer and softens ("melts") wherever they touch.

Now, how toy companies keep vinyl parts from melting hard plastics they're in constant contact with...maybe they use coatings on the rigids, inhibitors, different formulations for the vinyl, I dunno.

Gotta be the MSG in the vinyl treads -- or the dog meat in the styrene!

(No offense intended to our honest, reliable and industrious Chinese manufacturer. We know the Chinese don't eat dogs. It's the Koreans who do that!)

This can easily happen to any company. When Disney released Hercules, they released a 18" muscle flexing herc. you bent his arms, and his arm and chest muscles bulged, a plastic skeleton under a rubber skin.

Anyway, a year or so after I got mine, I happened to walk past where he was displayed, and shock, surprised!!! I was looking at rotting flesh zombie Hercules, taken over by Hades of the underworld!

The plastic skeleton under the rubber skin has reacted with it, and ALL the skin was now dripping down, gooey in shreds! it was VERY sticky, kind of like plastigoop only partially cooked.

Fortunately, I had put him on a wooden base, and the goo had flowed down his body, and was covering the base. I can't imagine the poor kids finding him on top of other beloved toys in their toybox!

My only concern, over initial boxed damage, is if the tires will react with the treads or wheels they need to mount on.

I'm thinking a coat of future floor wax over the inside of the wheel hubs might be the best solution, since it's durable enough to not scrape off when putting the wheels on.

What about just a layer of acrylic paint on the wheels with dullcote lacquer over that? Will it be sufficient to protect the plastic wheels from the treads?

acrylic is so soft, I'd be concerned about it rubbing off under the wheels.. and since the chariot can be rolled around, you know there will be at least some friction there.

What about just a layer of acrylic paint on the wheels with dullcote lacquer over that? Will it be sufficient to protect the plastic wheels from the treads?

A thick layer of brushed on acrylic paint or some laquer should do it. A potential problem is when you paint the tracks (they aren't black).

The...tracks... aren't...black???

I hate to even ask.. why wouldn't the tracks be molded black, and what color are they molded in?

If only the snowcat had used segmented, instead of flexible, tracks this issue would be moot - either the original kit would have come with nice, solid tread pieces with hinge pins or somebody would have made them as an aftermarket accessory.

As it is, Moebius has promised to replace treads for all those that request them, so I think as long as you don't let them touch the undercarriage all should be right with the world ...

Except the non-black issue. Any treadheads out there that have dealt with the painting issue with armor?

I have just received my chariot about one hour ago, and yes, I have tread burn on the inside of part #2, and many tire burns on the outside of part #2. One which is on the curve of the outside, which may be a problem.

The...tracks... aren't...black???

I hate to even ask.. why wouldn't the tracks be molded black, and what color are they molded in?


The real tracks are a bit different than most tank tracks as they are a continuous rubber belt or band with metal strips riveted or vulcanized in place. They are not individual links pinned together like on say a Tiger tank. The bars/cleats on the track are metal and would be "metallic" when new but generally a worn greyish/tanish/brownish shade when dirty. The rubber parts are black, but that would weather out to a dark grey. The outer row of guide teeth where the wheels sit are little finger shaped protrusions. On the inside are hollow inverted "V" shaped horns. The road wheels have rubber tires to contact the inside of the tracks for a smoother ride and less wear. The tires are smooth (although the kit tires have tread) and are fairly narrow. I would guess the real tires are about a foot wide.

Painting the tracks in an armor kit isnt a big issue, although the tracks in the Chariot seem to be more rubbery and soft (like a pencil eraser) than most tank kits include. The newer tank kit tracks are all either seperate links (Dragon), or link and length (Tamiya, Italeri) for the most part. Newer "vinyl" tracks are gluable with model cememt (AFV Club). I would try painting the Moebius tracks with either acrylics, or Tamiya's Polycarbonate flex paint for RC Car bodies. They make a PC steel color...

As I wrote on page 1 (post#13), one way to fix the problem is a barrier of superglue between the vinyl and styrene. Coat the styrene parts with superglue before assembling and it'll help protect it from the vinyl.

Chris.:)

If you painted the tracks engine black, then dry-brushed the high points with silver or steel, that'd be pretty close.

Should advise the manufacturer to pack the treads in a plastic bag from now on!

Should advise the manufacturer to pack the treads in a plastic bag from now on!
Right, then the tracks dissolve the bag, and the bag and tracks can then dissolve whatever else is in the box. Maybe the box should have a HazMat warning sticker? :freak: