i want to know if we should have a sprint car class and a modified class seperate from each other instead of being called open wheel. i would race both classes, i wanted to know who else think this would be a great ideah i think it would help the sport grow and have more entries and more people. i want to support the modified class. please let me know everyones feed back on this. bob bates #99:thumbsup:

Just my opinion here. I have witnessed the destruction of 10th scale racing over the years by the onset of 5 to 10 different classes to run. Back when a few of us ran Greentown R/C Raceway we had Truck Stock, and Buggy Stock. Truck Mod and Buggy Mod classes. We would have 30 to 35 people weekly running in the stock classes and 10 to 15 in the Mod classes. Racing then was fun because you had more than 3 or 4 people in a class. Now with 10th scale there is so many different classes that all you have is 3 to 4 entries per class. That is the reason I went to 1/4 scale racing. Now to the point I am trying to make. Once again we all know on the local level the GN class is struggling as with the Sprint class. I think if we continue to add more classes, in the long run it will hurt the sport as it has in 10th scale. If there were 20 entries I would much rather finish in 10th place and know I ran in the middle of the pack. I personally don't enjoy finishing 3rd every week out of 4 or 5 entries. I race to compete (not win) every week and the more per class the better the compitition. The fellowship with the other racers is another reason I am there every week. Plus it is my day to forget about the everyday stresses of Life. Like I said this is just my opinion. Not trying to ruffle any feathers here. What do you other guys think on this subject

I also agree that it is better to have more racers per clas than more classes than racers. Especially when the two classes would be so close together. I am like the Lonewolf, I go to compete and to have fellowship with other racers. It is a get away from it all deal. Go race and forget everything else.

It can always be run as an optional class at a NCS race.

I would rather see the stock car chassis modified to run the class (without the wing) ECM style. This way racers can move into or out of the class to other classes just as GN or Sportsman racers float in/out of the truck class. Imagine the body below without the front-fenders... just a narrow hood.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/500/thumbs/Late_model.jpg (http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/23827)

The modified chassis got built without racers. Or the racers who want to race it have no class without a built chassis. Kinda like which come first... chicken or the egg?:thumbsup:

I'm kind of old fasion and would like to see the Super Mod Class brought back to what it was when I got started, at that time there was only Sprint and Super Mod. No Stock car Class. We need the Super Mods back.
Tom

Excuse my for not knowing... what is the difference in the Super Mod pictured in the first post and today's sprint car?

Excuse my for not knowing... what is the difference in the Super Mod pictured in the first post and today's sprint car?

my picture posted is a super modified the differece between the sprint car and a modified it that my modified has an 1 1/2" lower cage than a sprint and side pods and instead of a sprint tail a box tail in the rear end with wide front tires there is a big difference. this is considered a super modified west coast. :thumbsup:

Gotcha. Could one lower their wing on a sprint insread of chopping the cage? Also can you post a pic of the rear? Thanks,my picture posted is a super modified the differece between the sprint car and a modified it that my modified has an 1 1/2" lower cage than a sprint and side pods and instead of a sprint tail a box tail in the rear end with wide front tires there is a big difference. this is considered a super modified west coast. :thumbsup:

i also like the ideah of a stock car turned into a super modified, i've seen pictures they look neat would be a blast.especially with all the panels on the car, and you would save money on making bodies:thumbsup:

this the way i see it if all the bench racers get off there rear and actually go to the tracks and get together they could form a class if they had enough its not smart to take away from what you have when now there is only enough for each class on local levels NCS events a little better but not the way it could be just my 2 cents

i want to know if we should have a sprint car class and a modified class seperate from each other instead of being called open wheel. i would race both classes, i wanted to know who else think this would be a great ideah i think it would help the sport grow and have more entries and more people. i want to support the modified class. please let me know everyones feed back on this. bob bates #99:thumbsup:

How does the lap times of a Modified compare to a Sprint? I have never seen a mod run.

Not enough difference from sprint. still short chassis. Id rather see a late model on existing GN,Sportsman. My .02 worth

this the way i see it if all the bench racers get off there rear and actually go to the tracks and get together they could form a class if they had enough its not smart to take away from what you have when now there is only enough for each class on local levels NCS events a little better but not the way it could be just my 2 cents

i have been trying to get QSAC west to form a class so as far as getting off there rear its been done, its just getting other races to join. 3 makes a class. i wanted to see what other peoples opinions are as far as starting a class and if it would grow, including NCS, i been racing 1/4 scale since the early 90's and back then there were alot of sprints and modifieds. just trying to bring back the mods again. bob #99:thumbsup:

How does the lap times of a Modified compare to a Sprint? I have never seen a mod run.

lap times are about the same maybe a few tenths quicker depending on motor and your down force with your panels on your car. i would like to see mods run a big carb. or maybe with alcohal, but that might be a little much, but i bet it would be a blast.:woohoo:

I'm kind of old fasion and would like to see the Super Mod Class brought back to what it was when I got started, at that time there was only Sprint and Super Mod. No Stock car Class. We need the Super Mods back.
Tom

Tom-

Do you have any pictures of the Super Modifieds? It would be great to see some pictures of cars of the era you mentioned in your post.

Regards,
Joe
:thumbsup:

mod's, what are the rule's anyway? guy's,clue me in here! is this an open front wheel enclosed rear wheel, like ICAR mod.? i have an older chassis that i start putting together 3 years ago as a mod. wasn't in a hurry to put it together because there was no were to race it. used old left over parts. heck,i would race it in a figure 8 race. there has even been some talk about that at our local track. mod. means anything go's rite!..........?

here's some pictures of real cars

i have been trying to get QSAC west to form a class so as far as getting off there rear its been done, its just getting other races to join. 3 makes a class. i wanted to see what other peoples opinions are as far as starting a class and if it would grow, including NCS, i been racing 1/4 scale since the early 90's and back then there were alot of sprints and modifieds. just trying to bring back the mods again. bob #99:thumbsup:another class is fine as long as you have the car count with out hurting the other classes thats what killed 10th scale oval i have been racing r/c oval since 89 1/4 1 year 7 months and counting:thumbsup:

those pictures are pretty cool, but we are talking about 2 different super mods here we have east and west coast we are located in west coast.

another class is fine as long as you have the car count with out hurting the other classes thats what killed 10th scale oval i have been racing r/c oval since 89 1/4 1 year 7 months and counting:thumbsup:
is what you do? you call racing?

I would love to run a Modified,


but I would have to give up the car or sprint to run it. In my opinion, I don't think this class would bring in new racers! It would split the field up. If a new racer wants to race 1/4 scale he will race which ever class is there.

Of course I would have 1 of everything and race them if I could.

A real racer will race whatever.

Just my .02

Joey

here's some pictures of real carslooks like a IRL car in a funny mirror at the fair

is what you do? you call racing?good enough to suck you up one pipe and blow you out the other:thumbsup:

Just my opinion here. I have witnessed the destruction of 10th scale racing over the years by the onset of 5 to 10 different classes to run. Back when a few of us ran Greentown R/C Raceway we had Truck Stock, and Buggy Stock. Truck Mod and Buggy Mod classes. We would have 30 to 35 people weekly running in the stock classes and 10 to 15 in the Mod classes. Racing then was fun because you had more than 3 or 4 people in a class. Now with 10th scale there is so many different classes that all you have is 3 to 4 entries per class. That is the reason I went to 1/4 scale racing. Now to the point I am trying to make. Once again we all know on the local level the GN class is struggling as with the Sprint class. I think if we continue to add more classes, in the long run it will hurt the sport as it has in 10th scale. If there were 20 entries I would much rather finish in 10th place and know I ran in the middle of the pack. I personally don't enjoy finishing 3rd every week out of 4 or 5 entries. I race to compete (not win) every week and the more per class the better the compitition. The fellowship with the other racers is another reason I am there every week. Plus it is my day to forget about the everyday stresses of Life. Like I said this is just my opinion. Not trying to ruffle any feathers here. What do you other guys think on this subject
i think lonwolpf hit the nail right on the head with this one, although i would love to see it work, with the way todays economy is going i dont think it would drag many new racers out, as it would have sprint guys making a choice to switch over to it and splitting that class. QSAC as an club has to make sure we dont split off in to many directions. This next year i think will be a big test of our clubs strenth and its members dedication to the sport, times are tough and people are gonna have to make tough decisions on are they going to cut back a little on racing or cut it all together,man i hope im wrong!!
Bob dont take this as me coming down on your idea, its just what i think.

i think lonwolpf hit the nail right on the head with this one, although i would love to see it work, with the way todays economy is going i dont think it would drag many new racers out, as it would have sprint guys making a choice to switch over to it and splitting that class. QSAC as an club has to make sure we dont split off in to many directions. This next year i think will be a big test of our clubs strenth and its members dedication to the sport, times are tough and people are gonna have to make tough decisions on are they going to cut back a little on racing or cut it all together,man i hope im wrong!!
Bob dont take this as me coming down on your idea, its just what i think.that sounds well thought and put together you are gona be the next QSAC co-chair:thumbsup:

Here's the East Coast style. This body & front bumper can be fab'd by a racer himself. He can replace body panels as needed. Lexan can be bought in smaller sizes usually locally. Yes, it can work. You would probably have more of these type cars racing at one race than you have GN throughout the entire US!
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/633/thumbs/Modified_Pic.jpg (http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/29393)

You have to admit it, this is a good looking ride!!

that sounds well thought and put together you are gona be the next QSAC co-chair:thumbsup:
gonna get Brent drunk at Isanti next week and talk him into staying on....LOL

nope he told me you was his mini-me:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:i like tims idea of the ecm cars you can make them out of your old busted up lexan bodys

In the past year I have made about a dozen outlaw late model bodies and about 8 east coast \IMCA bodies so the interest is there. felds used to be big when they had Sprint, Indy, GN and modified. Raceing and travel where cheeper back then. each class has there spot in the country. Rule need to be made for all.

You know I really want to jump in on this thread, but then I am going to tell it like it is and then some people may not find me to appealing anymore. I think everyone should think back to their history book and read what happens when you devide and concur.

Our ecconomy is at a strain right now. We need to take what we have and grow it. Then we can consider spliting off with other classes. QSAC offers the 4 classes we have now. Unless a person wins every week in every class. I do not see the need for a different one, especially a mod class.

I have held an NCS race and I have had over 70 different races from across the contry race at my track. Step back and ask yourself who is going to run this mod class, and the truth that is going to hurt is, do you want to run with them?

The whole 1/10th scale race divided up and look what happend. There is a formula that states for every choice you give a person it comlicates matters and I think it was by 30 times.

We have 15-25 guys race each week here, and they come from different parts and locals. I have another 10 guys that wont show up on race day because they feel there not good enough yet. We need to get into peoples heads its about the fellowship. I just had a conversation with my good friend who I use to fly helicopters with. We would travel 10-15 hours every weekend just to fly 20 min ? WHY :confused: We never had such a good time. We met so many great people and shared awsume times. We use to say its just not about the flying. This should be its just not about the racing.

Sure we need competitivness, but we are here to have a good time and a release from the outside world. I feel sprint cars are strained as they are, and to entertain deviding up what we have would not be a prudent move at this point in time. Purhaps when the economy turns around, like it always does and people start racing more and the turnouts start increasing, Then the discussion could be on either adding a class or replacing a class, I by no meens support adding a class. Just a step towards the end in my opinion.

Forgot something, I had this debat with the 1/10th scale guys and they just did not get it.

If a club or state or part of a set of stats want to run a different class, thats cool. On a local level people are free to do as they want each week. It is just at a national level is where you have a set or rules that everyone must obide by. If the westeren states like straping late-modle bodies on and running them in the dirt go for it its cool, but there is not reason for a national set of rules for that class. I think individual areas of the cuntry are strong in different typs of racing. But because of that QSAC dosnt have to dictate every rule for everyone. They have thier 4 classes when peole go to a national race there are those guide lines to follow once you leave your free to do what you choose again.

I know I didnt explain that right but I am done

Freddie, I see nothing wrong with your statement.

I am in agreement that to split off super modifieds and sprints would be a bad move. I have been trying to build the sprint car class for years. It has been a long time coming and the class is growing but it needs more time .

The local track has to run what ever works. At LPR it is sportsman... with trucks on occassions. If we had three guys that turned their cars into ECM's, would we turn them away? Nope. We couldn't afford to lose them as participants.

I would worry about racing them after they show up! Three cars at LPR make up a class. You can always make room for more racers but to split off into another group I don't think so. Diversity is killing electric racing right now. They have so many classes and so few racers to fill those classes.

Now if a 1/4 scale car listed out at $500.00 I could see a venture into another class but at $1500.00 plus tires & parts ain't no way.

Freddie. For a once you have put something down behind a keyboard. That doesn't show your natural being,with that said the Post was well stated, and i agree with ya. Wow!!!!!!!!

A fact the new people getting into 1/4 scale is who needs all attention put on. Helping them to get there rides to turn left the right way. Or they will vanish in the wind, saying i wish i coulda fiqured out how to make the car work. Help equals Fun and fellowship.

As petroleum prices continue to rise, we may not have a choice but to build our own bodies. Of course this has been kicked around for years...LOL. Shipping UPS, Fedex & USPS has become so expensive on packages the size bodies come in, it is only wise to team up on bodies when purchasing.

I don't see self building bodies working due to the lazy racer syndrom.:rolleyes: It is much easier to buy, fit, mask and paint a body than it would be to buy lexan, measure it, bend it, fit it, bend it again, fit it again, mask it and then paint it.:drunk::freak:

We'll just have to wait and see what developes in the coming months.:thumbsup:

As petroleum prices continue to rise, we may not have a choice but to build our own bodies. Of course this has been kicked around for years...LOL. Shipping UPS, Fedex & USPS has become so expensive on packages the size bodies come in, it is only wise to team up on bodies when purchasing.

I don't see self building bodies working due to the lazy racer syndrom.:rolleyes: It is much easier to buy, fit, mask and paint a body than it would be to buy lexan, measure it, bend it, fit it, bend it again, fit it again, mask it and then paint it.:drunk::freak:

We'll just have to wait and see what developes in the coming months.:thumbsup:
what i'm trying to say is if we had half the field that are modifieds and the other half sprints and each racer agrees to split i dont see a problem with it, thats all i'm saying. i just wanted peoples opinions and i think people are taking it the wrong way. so if there are 6 super mods and 6 sprints yes lets split them but if there is only 3 of each, no i dont think they should be split. i also heard that super truck class might be bye bye, then bring in another class.
if every racers agrees but i am glad i posted this thread to see what people think and opinions, everyone has there own opinons, and i have to agree the economy isnt very good at all and i dont want to see racers give up the sport.

As long as Rick is spitting out truck bodies I think there will be enough to run the class.

I personally have no problem with the Mod class forming. That's why I posted this statement... We'll just have to wait and see what developes in the coming months.:thumbsup:
what i'm trying to say is if we had half the field that are modifieds and the other half sprints and each racer agrees to split i dont see a problem with it, thats all i'm saying. i just wanted peoples opinions and i think people are taking it the wrong way. so if there are 6 super mods and 6 sprints yes lets split them but if there is only 3 of each, no i dont think they should be split. i also heard that super truck class might be bye bye, then bring in another class.
if every racers agrees but i am glad i posted this thread to see what people think and opinions, everyone has there own opinons, and i have to agree the economy isnt very good at all and i dont want to see racers give up the sport.

what i'm trying to say is if we had half the field that are modifieds and the other half sprints and each racer agrees to split i dont see a problem with it, thats all i'm saying. i just wanted peoples opinions and i think people are taking it the wrong way. so if there are 6 super mods and 6 sprints yes lets split them but if there is only 3 of each, no i dont think they should be split. i also heard that super truck class might be bye bye, then bring in another class.
if every racers agrees but i am glad i posted this thread to see what people think and opinions, everyone has there own opinons, and i have to agree the economy isnt very good at all and i dont want to see racers give up the sport.trucks are on the uprise so they wont be bye,bye thats east west might do away with it but its gona more than likely be around for a while because next year at the ncs events i will run truck,sportsman and gn localy when ever i can

2008 QSAC Dirt Oval Nats. Shaffer Speedway

this race just took place,couldn't these mod's and or, super latemodels be raced if enough interest? also, how many dirt races are there?

2008 QSAC Dirt Oval Nats. Shaffer Speedway

this race just took place,couldn't these mod's and or, super latemodels be raced if enough interest? also, how many dirt races are there?

Right now I only know of one race being run at Schaffers speedway on the dirt. Dave Smerker has his track and is running dirt there but I do not know how often or how many racers he gets. Dirt nationals only showed ten drivers this year. People said they were coming but no one showed with a late model or modified.

If memeory serves me right , back when I got into 1/4 scale , in 99 , the QSAC rules package did have a provision for mixing sprints and mods if not enough of each class showed up . In 2000 when the sprints were put back into the racing program of NCS races as a provisional class , because the class died for awhile the above said rule was still in effect . Part of the deal for the provisional class was we had to have 5 cars show up to prove we had some honest interest in the class . For that season it was shaky at best if we had 5 cars show up for a race but the class survived . At that time nobody showed up with a modified , at least on this side of the Mississippi . In 2001 it was the same way , no modfieds . So for 2002 when the QSAC rule book was some what refined the split of sprints and modifieds running together came about , reason being if I remember correctly , was because the mods used pipes , alcohol ( which was ok at the time ) and side pods . So I think the idea was to split the classes . At the same time the guys out West still were running the modifieds and they combined with the sprinters out there to have a good sized class , which worked for them and was called the open wheel class . In 03 when QSAC went to Vegas for a NCS race the provisional class for that race was the open wheel class and they had 17 cars . Nice field of cars and they put on a good show . In all reality they had enough of each ( sprint or modified to have seperate classes ) but they decided to run combined . Those of us that showed up to run the sprint class was hoping that the guys that had sprinters out there would run with us . WE found out later that most of those guys were running the 230 engine and the QSAC NCS rule at the time was the G2D70 still for the sprints . It was one of those transitional years when the engines were changing class by class . Ok enough of the history lesson . What Bob wants to do is , if I understand his question , is to go back and combine the classes for the NCS races , or to reinstate the modified class for the NCS races . To combine the classes would open up a new can of worms on the NCS level . Would the modified guys want to take off the side pods , rework the offset and change their front tires to level the playing field ? I wouldn't unless I wanted to participate . The modified class does have it's own set of rules and if there's enough interest and participation in the class to race the NCS schedule then there shouldn't be a problem to add a class to the NCS format . But the main issue is having enough cars in the class , which is three at all the races and five at the final show down if I'm not mistaken . Heck there was a couple years that the truck class disappeared and this year it has come back pretty strong in the NCS series . If the modfied guys want to be included in the NCS series get your numbers together and show their is some interest in the class . On the local level if combining the classes ( sprint and modified ) works for you guys that's great . Keeps everybody racing . As for the ECM class Tim has talked about , there was a group of guys that raced that class a few years back , saw them a couple of times . I think they mainly ran in Virginia but traveled some . Like he said if a few guys on the local level would want to run a different class would ya turn them away , no , will it split up the already established classes , maybe some but then again having a variety might spark some outside interest and club membership might grow and the different classes will survive on their own. At the Lansing track We used to have GN , Truck ,Novice . A few years back the trucks got dropped for Sportsmen , Gn and Novice held on and finally Sprints were added ( on a race to race basis ) . Today Sportsman is the big class , Trucks are back and Sprints are still hanging on by the skin of their teeth , no Novice at this time but if we had new people show up and wanted to race at entry level we'd provide it . Guess what I'm trying to say is all the local tracks have to roll with the flow to keep the interest up and moving . In 1/4 scale we don't have the numbers that the other scale classes have , and we can't afford to discourage anybody from wanting to join in , so we gotta be versatile within reason if we want our numbers to grow . Ok , as usuall , long winded and there's a couple bucks worth of thoughts that probably aren't worth 2 cents .
Randy

If memeory serves me right , back when I got into 1/4 scale , in 99 , the QSAC rules package did have a provision for mixing sprints and mods if not enough of each class showed up . In 2000 when the sprints were put back into the racing program of NCS races as a provisional class , because the class died for awhile the above said rule was still in effect . Part of the deal for the provisional class was we had to have 5 cars show up to prove we had some honest interest in the class . For that season it was shaky at best if we had 5 cars show up for a race but the class survived . At that time nobody showed up with a modified , at least on this side of the Mississippi . In 2001 it was the same way , no modfieds . So for 2002 when the QSAC rule book was some what refined the split of sprints and modifieds running together came about , reason being if I remember correctly , was because the mods used pipes , alcohol ( which was ok at the time ) and side pods . So I think the idea was to split the classes . At the same time the guys out West still were running the modifieds and they combined with the sprinters out there to have a good sized class , which worked for them and was called the open wheel class . In 03 when QSAC went to Vegas for a NCS race the provisional class for that race was the open wheel class and they had 17 cars . Nice field of cars and they put on a good show . In all reality they had enough of each ( sprint or modified to have seperate classes ) but they decided to run combined . Those of us that showed up to run the sprint class was hoping that the guys that had sprinters out there would run with us . WE found out later that most of those guys were running the 230 engine and the QSAC NCS rule at the time was the G2D70 still for the sprints . It was one of those transitional years when the engines were changing class by class . Ok enough of the history lesson . What Bob wants to do is , if I understand his question , is to go back and combine the classes for the NCS races , or to reinstate the modified class for the NCS races . To combine the classes would open up a new can of worms on the NCS level . Would the modified guys want to take off the side pods , rework the offset and change their front tires to level the playing field ? I wouldn't unless I wanted to participate . The modified class does have it's own set of rules and if there's enough interest and participation in the class to race the NCS schedule then there shouldn't be a problem to add a class to the NCS format . But the main issue is having enough cars in the class , which is three at all the races and five at the final show down if I'm not mistaken . Heck there was a couple years that the truck class disappeared and this year it has come back pretty strong in the NCS series . If the modfied guys want to be included in the NCS series get your numbers together and show their is some interest in the class . On the local level if combining the classes ( sprint and modified ) works for you guys that's great . Keeps everybody racing . As for the ECM class Tim has talked about , there was a group of guys that raced that class a few years back , saw them a couple of times . I think they mainly ran in Virginia but traveled some . Like he said if a few guys on the local level would want to run a different class would ya turn them away , no , will it split up the already established classes , maybe some but then again having a variety might spark some outside interest and club membership might grow and the different classes will survive on their own. At the Lansing track We used to have GN , Truck ,Novice . A few years back the trucks got dropped for Sportsmen , Gn and Novice held on and finally Sprints were added ( on a race to race basis ) . Today Sportsman is the big class , Trucks are back and Sprints are still hanging on by the skin of their teeth , no Novice at this time but if we had new people show up and wanted to race at entry level we'd provide it . Guess what I'm trying to say is all the local tracks have to roll with the flow to keep the interest up and moving . In 1/4 scale we don't have the numbers that the other scale classes have , and we can't afford to discourage anybody from wanting to join in , so we gotta be versatile within reason if we want our numbers to grow . Ok , as usuall , long winded and there's a couple bucks worth of thoughts that probably aren't worth 2 cents .
Randy

i really didnt think this topic would take off like it did, i think i opened a can of worms on this one, lol. but i do see where everyone is comming from, i want to thank everyone who has wrote on here there opinons and pros and cons. i just really would like to see super mods grow but yes the way the economy is it will be tuff if we run them with sprints thats would be okay with me to, i love the sprint class been running sprint for years. but now i'm into building and designing of cars first bullseye, now i moved onto buliding the aggressor sprint and super mod, it is fun and when you pull it out of your car it makes you feel good when everyone likes the looks of it or just watching the cars run makes me feel good. but i wanted to thank everyone and hope to see you guys at the showdown and the super nats. :thumbsup:

from what i have seen over the years on local levels outdoor 1/4 scales head count is way ahead of 10th scale