Got a quick question for everyone. With all this talk over new classes for the Snowbirds theres one thing i dont understand. Why are the big Sponsored driver go to a slower class?? When i first started racing RC oval the slow classes where for the begginers not the pros. Why are the big drivers taking over the classes that the begginers should be running. After all it is a hobby and they are toy cars.. Take a look at the snowbirds does the snowbirds have a class for begginers. Just because its the biggest race around shouldent they have a begginers class and give the hobbiest a place to have fun and be around the pro to learn things?? Just an Idea Mike Boylan.. I dont understand why the faster and bigger guys are going to a slower classes and taking over the begginers classes. Can someone explain this??

Take a look at the snowbirds does the snowbirds have a class for begginers. Just because its the biggest race around shouldent they have a begginers class and give the hobbiest a place to have fun and be around the pro to learn things??

Some would say - NO

Events known as NATIONAL EVENTS are to showcase "The Best of the Best" Not the "Average of the Newbies"

As for 'Sponsored' drivers in LOWER classes - generally I'd think a COMPANY sponsors drivers for classes they have a PRODUCT to SELL... So if they have something to sell in the SLOWER class - they have to be able to SHOWCASE it's ability right?

A Factory Sponsored MODIFIED DRIVER running MOCK speeds does NOTHING to sell a certain type/brand of STOCK MOTOR - cause he's not running it. Think about it...

If you can't beat them - you still have WORK to do. Some guys like being the KING of a class - and that makes them feel like they are a really GOOD driver..until someone BETTER Kicks their butt badly!~

(My opinions - not that I agree about NOT having a NEWBIE class at a large event, nor having SPONSORED racers in the lower classes)

I know what you are saying but whats the point for a Pro Level driver to go and lap the Newbie 6 times. To me thats just disrespect and if i where a Track director i would not let the driver race in that class. If you have a product to showcase for stock then advertise it dont go out and piss all the newbies off. Or find a newbie to race in a begginers class.. Nothing aginst the sponsored drivers. I just think that the big drivers need to be in the bigger classes and more competitive classes. Your not going to find a newbie in a 10.5 Pro mod class. Where you will find good drivers like Frank Ulbrick and Jamie Hanson.

I personaly think that a newbie does it to have fun and get out of the house. I think guys take this hobby way to seriously but I dont think i need to do any work. If im going out and having fun then thats all the work i need.. :thumbsup:

To me thats just disrespect and if i where a Track director i would not let the driver race in that class.

GOOD Luck with THAT - that's like telling a CUP driver they can't run in a Nationwide Race...

As long as you don't have RULES in place to prohibit it (which is a very hard rule to have) it'll never happen.

DO YOU KNOW all the "TOP" level drivers in the country? I don't...who's a RINGER?

Sorry swtour just my opinion take it how ever you want..

Theres a big diffrence between Nascar and RC cars. RC cars doesnt bring in much money but Nascar on the other hand is a everyday job. I think its time for people to relize its all for fun. WHen RC was first created it was created for fun and not for so much competition.

Sorry but just my opinion

L4OvalRacer

I don't disagree with you - but it will NEVER happen.

NORRCA tried it years ago by splitting divisions into SPORTSMAN (No SPONSORS WHAT SO EVER) and EXPERTS (Some or Full Sponsorships ok)

There was virtually NO WAY to police it. PROVE someone is sponsored...

PROVE he got a better deal than buying MAIL order... It's easier said than done (Been there...done that)

Sorry Sw but i think its possible. You can tell a Pro from a Begginer.. I dont care if you are sponsored or not if you are driving like a pro your out. Easy as that....

...again, I encourage you to put on races yourself and try enforcing a few things...

Just because someone has TALENT you kick them out of a class? At what point?

You have a track that the normal guy runs 60 laps...a guy comes in and runs 62 laps on his first visit to the track ... and you don't let him run?

Sometimes, especially at LOCAL tracks, lap times get stagnant..guys THINK they are fast...but someone who's never been there doesn't know the limitations..and BLOWS away a track record....

(If you follow - this is where BREAKOUT classes can come in, but MOST people don't like them...)

YOU Can set limits at specific tracks, and bump people from a lower class to a higher class (works best if you have a SPORTSMAN/EXPERT level of each class) but in these days of low turnouts....GOOD LUCK!

Do you kick a guy out and MAKE HIM have to buy NEW equipment...cause he's TOO fast for your liking? What happens when YOU become that guy and get kicked out of YOUR favorite class?

And who would decide who is a pro and who is not a pro?

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1947_eating_popcorn_and_drinking_beer.gif (http://www.clipartof.com)

I've seen situations where a driver was deemed TOO GOOD at a specific track and made to bump up. They SUCKED at the higher class - never could get a handle on the new speed... THEY QUIT racing and said SCR W it.

I've also seen guys who were AWESOME at one particular track - but struggled at OTHER tracks. Guys hated running against him on the ONE track - cause HE won...they hated running against him on the others cause HE SUCKED and was IN the WAY.

hmmmm where do you put a guy like that?

.......it would be nice if based on certain races around the country if guys could get a NATIONAL RANKING.

Jake Rosen proposed an idea like this Years ago, and I know it was something J.B. had hoped to be able to do with ARCOR - but... it never really materialized.

A "National Ranking" could be entered into MOST scoring programs to sort the racers by ranked ability. Heats could be set up based off that info...then RESORTS based on qualifying. (Which a lot of races already do the resorts)

It does add time for a race director, but sometimes it DOES make better racing (which is the real BOTTOM LINE)

LET IT BE KNOWN...I don't really care too much WHAT the rest of the world does w/ BL and LIPO. We've gone in an awesome direction...I love the classes that are working and the racing it has produced...

BUT - The MORE discussion, the MORE Hits and Visitors to HobbyTalk, and there's nothing worse than a QUIET BORING Message Board~ :)

Thanks For your opinion Swtour anybody else??

Its all just based on numbers. I race with Greg Honeycutt all the time (if you dont know him he is one of the best). He races in 13.5 because that is the only class that is offered other than 17.5 and losi sliders. You cant turn him away, that is money and he should be able to race. People just need to grow up and realize you cant win right off. This hobby isn't easy nor should it be. People need to look at it as a challenge. If there is a faster class I am sure they will run it. Talk to the team guys, have them drive your car. They will be glad to help you all that they can. THis is just my opinion, but people just need to get over being in the B main.

Joel White

Just woundering what you other guys think??

BTW I know my post may be a little harsh, but its the truth

At the track I race at most Saturdays during the carpet season, there are a few classes divided by skill level. Intermediate Stock Truck and Stock Truck, Intermediate Touring Car and Touring Car. There are no set lap limits (I think there were at one point) and nobody is really forced to be in one class or the other. Still, it works pretty well. If you go stomp everyone in intermediate, you may be asked to move up, but not required. At the same time, if you're in the way in stock, you may be asked or told to move down until you've gotten better. It seems to work pretty well, and generally racers know where they stand and sign up for the right class. We don't, however, have this for pan car racing. Last year was my first season racing pan car (or anything on a weekly basis) and I have to admit, it was a bit tough being the slow guy every week in a pack of drivers that's been at it for years. Hopefully something can work out to where we'll have an intermediate class this time around. The "Crate Late Model" class seems like it may fill the void well. Stock 4 cell speeds but using a spec 6 cell nicd, tin can motor, and spec tires. Time will tell.

Conclusion: it CAN work, provided you have enough racers to split the two. HOWEVER, people should never be forced to be in one or the other. If somebody wants to be the "big fish in the small pond" so be it, it gives everyone else something to shoot for. Of course, encouragement to move up isn't off limits, but never tell them "you can't race here unless you move up."

BTW, our class rules for both intermediate and "expert" are exactly the same. Maybe that's the problem... making somebody bump to mod class where they don't belong can turn them off even quicker than just bumping them to a higher skill level of the same class. That's what makes the transition so easy at the track I go to; if you move up, you're still driving the same car except the competition level is way higher rather than the speed.

Matt

And who would decide who is a pro and who is not a pro?



bingo Hank

Here is my take.

Some guys need to realize that there can be only one.

All of this "we need a class for red cars with broken chassis" is for the birds.

Too dang many classes is KILLING US. I mean how many WINNERS is enough? I remember back in the day, and yes it was a while back, making the C or D main was a friggin honor.

When I started all we ran here in town was stock and these guys were either Bolink drivers, TRC or Compositecraft. They all had deals and had "good stuff" it made me work my butt off. If/when you beat or could run with them, you felt like a million bucks.

Now there is a class for every Tom Dick and Harry, so everyone can be a winner. It is like little league without keeping score. Heaven forbid someone go home and and have to realize they got beat.

All of this making up more and more classes is watering down the sport. It would be great to get back to STOCK and MOD.

As far as the "sponsored" guys in the slower classes. It has always been. On the local scene, there is not much you can do about it. Now on a State/Regional/National level it is a little easier. You can make rules such as you can only run "down" one class. Down may not be the best adjective to use, but I hope it is understood what I mean.

Joel,

Your post wasn't harsh at all.... IT was Spot On!~

On occasion, I like running against our Big Dogs...but VERY VERY rarely.

Guys like Gary Hamilton and Erik Steenhoven are SO good they will blow by you w/o having to even think HOW to pass...they just DO IT. There are other 'FAST' Guys, they run laps Just as Fast...but are no where near as smooth or experienced or something. These guys are a little harder to race with - cause a lot of time they don't know how to pass a slower car...and a CRASH ensues.

I can drive a moderate to slower class fairly well..and I ran MODIFIED (Sportsman Level) for about 10 years and did OK on some tracks. My driving skills have gone WAY down the last few years - my OnTrack time has too...and so has my car maintenance. (That's what I get for putting the races on for others) That's my choice...and I still LOVE R/C now as much as I did the first time I put my Brown FUTABA BOX in my hands and ran my RC10 on the Dirt Oval in 1985. (Back then I raced TWICE a week....every week for 2 years...on a indoor dirt bull ring about 85 - 90 ft. run line.)

...L4OvalRacer, good thread btw.

I think most "pros" that race stock, do so because.......drum rolllll.........it's fun! The speed of stock racing makes for great racing! It is also easier on equipment (tires). Classes like 10.5 can be frustrating to get a handle on, even for the most experienced racers, plus on top of that, tires wear much faster.
I wish tracks had a class "below" stock, like spec...with 540 motors and unmatched 4 cell cheapo packs (then I could race stock without feeling guilty).

so i hope that answered ur ?

And who would decide who is a pro and who is not a pro?

Make the Pro's earn the right.

Just like the World Series of Poker or the Boston Marathon, you have to earn your right to compete from a previous competition.

I just had a friend finally complete his goal to run the Boston last year. He ran more than a dozen marathon events to finally get a low enough time to run at Boston. It was that simple, either he had to get better or get older and miss another year to compete at the "Big Show"

When you are talking larger events, qualifiers should be a prerequisite
of the event and should have taken place all year before the event. This would be a matter of professionalism and safety for everyone at a national event.

I wish tracks had a class "below" stock, like spec...with 540 motors and unmatched 4 cell cheapo packs (then I could race stock without feeling guilty).

Not to hijack, but just wanted to let you in on what's going on around here. In Western NY/PA there's a pan car class called "crate late model". Uses the trinity 6 cell spec packs, Tamiya Sport Tuned motors (or similar), spec tires, and dirt late model bodies. With it being 6 cell, it keeps the speeds right up there close to stock 4 cell, even with the tin can motors yet it keeps it way cheaper by being spec. Anyway, I'm going to get a car ready for it for people in my club at school to try out. It should be good pan car experience without all the "Pro's" and money being involved.

There's also the class that the Hooter Chassis Outlaw Tour runs "Spec truck". Same deal but with NASCAR truck bodies, spec 4 cell, and handout motors. It is however, MUCH slower than stock 4 cell.

Matt

Not to hijack, but just wanted to let you in on what's going on around here. In Western NY/PA there's a pan car class called "crate late model". Uses the trinity 6 cell spec packs, Tamiya Sport Tuned motors (or similar), spec tires, and dirt late model bodies. With it being 6 cell, it keeps the speeds right up there close to stock 4 cell, even with the tin can motors yet it keeps it way cheaper by being spec. Anyway, I'm going to get a car ready for it for people in my club at school to try out. It should be good pan car experience without all the "Pro's" and money being involved.

Matt


LOVE IT - use to run a Mabuchi/6 cell class....'just for fun' w/ Mid 70's bodies ie: Mustangs, Camaros, Novas, Chevelles, (called it HobbyStock) MAN was that a FUN class and CHEAP.

racing with the fast guys maybe a little intimidating at first, but you will become a better racer... you will only be as fast as the guys you race with, But I understand sometimes racing with the faster guys at your local track can cause some tension because one guy may not be up to speed yet.. It just takes time and little patients....


JP

I Personally Like Racing Against People Better Than Me It Gives Me Something To Shoot For. And If I Was Racing With Sean Cochran And Greg Honeycut I Would Love To Just Be In That Race And I Would Be Even Happier To Run A Good Race With Them Even If I Dont Win "which We All Know I Wouldn't Win Against Them"

Back in the day Bob Hosche held the Oval Masters once a year and they had a sportsman class and the only thing that seperated that class from stock was the fact that you could not be sponsored or run sponsor stickers on your car

Its all just based on numbers. I race with Greg Honeycutt all the time (if you dont know him he is one of the best). He races in 13.5 because that is the only class that is offered other than 17.5 and losi sliders. You cant turn him away, that is money and he should be able to race. People just need to grow up and realize you cant win right off. This hobby isn't easy nor should it be. People need to look at it as a challenge. If there is a faster class I am sure they will run it. Talk to the team guys, have them drive your car. They will be glad to help you all that they can. THis is just my opinion, but people just need to get over being in the B main.

Joel White

That's why my nick name is BQ!!!

If you're going to go to the Snowbirds to "just have fun" with "toy cars" and "learn from the pros", there's no better way than racing against those pros.

But is it really, "I wanna be a Snowbirds Champion too, without having to race all the pro racers, or without having to work at it?" The "I think guys take this hobby way to seriously but I dont think i need to do any work. If im going out and having fun then thats all the work i need.." statement really sums it up.

That's like saying, "I wanna run the Craftsman Truck series 'cause I can't make it in Cup, but Hornaday, Skinner, Sprague, and Benson all can't race cause they're too fast or have too good of equipment".

What's next? "I want to be a General in the Marines without dirtying my hands or breaking a nail"?

Perhaps there should be a sportsman class at the 'Birds. I personally don't think so, but you'll need to prepare a much better argument than what you have presented to even get it considered. Sorry for being harsh, but I mean, there's no trophy for having the most posts, either. Think about what you're saying before you say, err... type it.

http://www.raywoodrcvideos.com/site3/video%20clips/snowbirds%20web5meg.wmv

Start watching the clip at the 1:40 mark. Maybe that's why People are opting for the slower classes.

Heck, We used to run 4-cell mod at my local outdoor track all the time. Last time seriously was with 3300's. Fast lap was 4.5 but you basically locked in on 4.6-4.7 sec laps. Now with 10.5 I can run 4.7's I think I even had a 4.6 last year on fresh sealer. But to run that the car is so on edge I'm like a dart without feathers. I know I could slow the car down and have it stick better, but once I figure out how to hook up that higher speed everyone at my will get discouraged in a hurry.

So is it fair that the faster guys run 13.5, 10.5 etc. But is it fair that the faster guys be forced into classes that are no longer fun and/or competitive?

Sorry Todd but thats not the point here. The point is not that whos good for what it is the fact that there are a lot more Guys just trying to have fun in the RC Oval field then there are Professinal racers. If you cant find a class that the "Newbie" driver can drive in then why should they even be doing the hobby!!!

Why should the newbie driver go out and spend $800 on equipment just to have fun?? So they can run with the pro level driver. It makes no sence....

I love the Idea that Echeconnee had that is a very good Idea.

The reason RC was ever invented was for people to enjoy and have fun. But now we have so many companies and Indrustries compeating for each other that it has made the hobby no fun. Its always about selling something or creating something. Why dont you create something at a good price that the Newbie can enjoy and not have to hop up or by a diffrent one after next year.

I personaly love RC Oval racing but it has become so Industrialised that I have started trying out new things like rock crawler and thing like that and honestly Rock crawlers are slow paced and a challange to get over the hill or rock. No big Sponsored racers or big high speed runs or anything in that nature. Also i dont have to work my butt off to make it faster. I like the looks of that more than anything.

But creating more classes is not the answer. You hear people (including myself) on here talking about the good old days. Well the new guys, and the old guys ran stock. You just worked it out.

http://www.raywoodrcvideos.com/site3/video%20clips/snowbirds%20web5meg.wmv

Start watching the clip at the 1:40 mark. Maybe that's why People are opting for the slower classes.

Heck, We used to run 4-cell mod at my local outdoor track all the time. Last time seriously was with 3300's. Fast lap was 4.5 but you basically locked in on 4.6-4.7 sec laps. Now with 10.5 I can run 4.7's I think I even had a 4.6 last year on fresh sealer. But to run that the car is so on edge I'm like a dart without feathers. I know I could slow the car down and have it stick better, but once I figure out how to hook up that higher speed everyone at my will get discouraged in a hurry.

So is it fair that the faster guys run 13.5, 10.5 etc. But is it fair that the faster guys be forced into classes that are no longer fun and/or competitive? Danny I like the 2:11 mark the most. :thumbsup: Man your car got some air.:eek: It almost looked Like My car at Cinci a couple years ago when I launched off your hood hiting the wall 5 ft in the air.

As far as Sponsored drivers in the slower classes. I'm Ok with the fact the faster guys run the lower classes. It helps both the slower driver and the faster ones as well. It help the faster drivers work on there driving skills and gives the slower drivers a mark to shoot for and improve there racing program. Just my 2 cents

Jason

You bring up a good point- there needs to be something available, and there needs to be a place. But, I feel you're aim is a little off. Let me explain.

You're wanting a novice class at the Snowbirds. That, to me, is unrealistic, depending on what Mike Boylan's intent of the 'Birds are supposed to be. If it's the "best of the best", it's just not a place for a novice class, as you just cannot weed out who belongs there. You're also asking for something to change that's been this way, in general, for probably 20 years. Sponsored racers didn't start racing stock yesterday. It was "industrialized" as you say, many years ago. But that doesn't mean it's all bad either- it depends on what you expect from racing. If you want to dedicate yourself and climb a mountain, go to the big races- even sniffing the top is well worth the effort.. If you merely want to have fun wheeling a car, stay local and have a good time, that's ok to do, too! If you're looking to have a vacation and wheel a car at a big race, I wouldn't recommend it. You'll either never have the vacation, or you'll want to sell all your stuff after the race from frustration. My point is, challenging Boylan on having a novice class for one of the most prestigious events just doesn't hold any water.

I do agree with you, though, that there needs to be a place where oval racers CAN have fun without the seriousness. But, I think that should be brought up on more the local level. I'm sorry, but a "grass roots nationals" IMO would NEVER work. Guess that's why in our area, we're trying to keep as many of the "fast guys" in 13.5, in order to leave 17.5 open- but that doesn't always work, either. Maybe a six-cell Mabuchi class would help racers "cross over" into oval racing from other six-cell racing classes, such as off-road, touring car, etc. Once again, though, now you're diluting the racers once again. There's a lot of things that would be nice- an inexpensive "starter" oval car would be a plus (but you can't build enough to justify the price I'd like to see). But, there's only so much that can be done at one time, and the questions have to be answered one at a time.

Fishing and putting ships in a bottle's are less stressfull hobbies.
I personally don't like 13.5 or 17.5 class my cars seem to work better in 10.5 or mod
that's why I run mostly off road Mod truck mod buggy and 1/8 scale gas and gas truck
Because mostly mod is usally race what you brought you don't have to worrie about people Changing the purple rings on the brushless motor's. Most tracks don't have a meter for checking motors.
I agree this is a FUN HOBBIE If you have to cheat to win get a differant hobbie your not doing your SPONSER'S ANY GOOD.
JUST MY 2 CNTS.
SMC FANTOM BYRON FUEL NOVA ROSSI TEAM LOSI KYOSHO

Good Point Conde..

It would be nice if it could be like "the good ol' days" everyone talks about again... things are just way too stratified now though. Many local racers have no desire to ever drive a pan car. It's definitely viewed as a "pro-only" class at some places. So that causes people to stick to more non-traditional oval classes like trucks, touring cars, etc. Also, since no common well known company produces an oval car, oval pan cars are usually a special order thing if your local shop even sells oval cars (KSG, HD, Etc.). Pan cars aren't marketed at all, so anybody that's never been to a race track doesn't even know they exist or what is good about them. The only way to ever bring pan car classes back to actually having new blood more than 1 or 2 guys a season would be for Associated or Losi to produce a cheap rtr oval pan car and actually market it. Then it's a matter of getting hobby shops to stock them, because oval cars nowadays are notoriously poor sellers.

Anyway, back to the topic. I don't mind racing with the pro guys...yes I was very slow when i began, but most of them have done nothing but help me get faster. At major events there is definitely no need for an entry level class. The Snowbirds are supposed to be the "best of the best". How many newbies are staying in a hotel and racing r/c for a week anyway. If you can't hang with the top guys, accept it and just work on bettering yourself. Their times can be intimidating, but they give you something to shoot for. When I go to big races, I'm not on top by any means. Heck, if I can just MAKE a B-main this year at a Hooter Outlaw Tour race it'll be like a win.

So to conclude... I'd have to agree with Todd F. on this one.

Matt

Let the pro/sponsored racers race in whatever class they want. However, if they are regularly racing at a specific track and beating the field by 6 laps then they have a responsibility to help the other racers in that class

Isn't part of the point of being a pro/sponsored driver to promote the hobby or your manufacturer? If the pro/sponsored drivers would take more time to mentor the slower drivers at the track I doubt some of the racers would be as frustrated or quit. Basically my point is that most people in this hobby do it for fun and don't mind losing to a better driver. The frustrating part is when you don't know why the pro/sponsored driver is 6 laps faster than you.

As far as a novice class at Snowbirds - I disagree. However if you wanted to have an exhibition class for the kids/wives/girlfriends of entered racers assuming they had no r/c experience that might be fun to watch.

At the local level I don't have a problem with a "sponsored" driver running a slower class. It might be the only class available to race. I do agree that at a higher level they should run the faster classes. It makes for a better show and lets the not as fast guys have a chance of making it big in the slower class. However, racing against these guys at any level will help you learn more and give you a great feeling if you can stay with or even beat them.

Right On Todd

Right On Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzman

Have you found those 3 laps yet

This may come as a suprise but if you can't make the A in 13.5 or 17.5 at your local track and you enter the 10.5 class at the birds, you may have all you equipment sold before you get home.

Three laps? I thought it was only TWO LAPS... Heeheehee...

If I had my choice in our area, (talking indoor carpet) I'd have 10.5, 13.5, a 17.5 "Pro" Stock and a 17.5/27t "Stock" or "Sportsman". Unfortuntalely- 10.5's about dead on a local level (my fave is 10.5, much like Conde), and there's not enough to split the 17.5 class. If we had the racers to do all this, it'd be perfect- the BRL guys could run the "Pro Stock" and that would leave the "sportsman" a place as well. Eventually, LiPo could be mixed in, and perhaps even take over.

Indy also has a good point, too. As long as the faster racers are helping the slower ones- everyone improves. But if the "fast guys" don't help, that's a problem. Conversely, if the slower racers do any of the following: Don't ask for help, assume racers are cheating and bad-mouth, or wanna wreck the faster guys because they're not winning- that don't help, either. It IS a two-way street... I've seen more griping over the guy that takes the shrink wrap off the Novak capacitor & board- it was all I heard for a week about "someone" having a "funny board" on their car. That was some funny stuff...

It's a mixed bag no matter what you look at, and there's no simple solution to fixing it all.

BTW, our class rules for both intermediate and "expert" are exactly the same. Maybe that's the problem... making somebody bump to mod class where they don't belong can turn them off even quicker than just bumping them to a higher skill level of the same class. That's what makes the transition so easy at the track I go to; if you move up, you're still driving the same car except the competition level is way higher rather than the speed.

Matt


Maybe I'm a bit lost here..... isn't that want the mains are suppose to do? The B main racers are a bit slower then the A main and the C main a bit slower yet. No need to worry about "bumping up" to a higher class, your qualifing will automatically place you in the group you belong in.

Fishing and putting ships in a bottle's are less stressfull hobbies.
I personally don't like 13.5 or 17.5 class my cars seem to work better in 10.5 or mod


And they don't call him airconde for nuttin' :)

About learning............. you can only learn if someone teaches you or shows you what the problems are and what areas of the car need to be what so it can do this.......

Racing is racing, not every one wins all the time, I have seen the hot shoe get beat, cause while he was worrying about this or that he forgot to do this and BAM someone edged im out at the end...... Most if not all the faster than me guys I know (which is ALOT) have given me a whole diary of advice and fixed, wrenched and helped me tune my car over the years, I think plenty of them are doing that already.....

I have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge sometimes I think its too much, cause half the stuff I STILL dont know why or where to apply it all....... But all I can say is that track time IS CRUCIAL..... I have been away for a year as most of you know and that has had a huge impact on my driving ability let alone changes to the car and track as a day goes forward......

Sponsored or not bring them on, they all go into the wall the same, LOL just kidding boys, lets JUST RACE.......................................

Hank I belive you were their. YEE HA

For any youngsters or old guys anytime if you have a question please ask.If it's not 35sec. before my heat I'll give you a Best answer that I can .

IT'S ALL ABOUT HAVIN FUN AND HAGIN WITH YOUR BUDS:thumbsup::woohoo::thumbsup:

BTW, our class rules for both intermediate and "expert" are exactly the same. Maybe that's the problem... making somebody bump to mod class where they don't belong can turn them off even quicker than just bumping them to a higher skill level of the same class. That's what makes the transition so easy at the track I go to; if you move up, you're still driving the same car except the competition level is way higher rather than the speed.


This basically works the same as 'Ranking' a driver and setting up heats based on a drivers ranking. The difference is that w/ the RANKING system...a driver who has a really good day - gets to RUN with the other guys who run the same speed.. where by splitting the groups..if a guy HITS it - and runs really fast in the SLOW group..he'll run a run that would have got him a top finish in the FAST group - then the slow group...is once again PISSED off.

Putting everyone in ONE class - separating by skill level, have BUMP UPS from lower mains...

But some people don't like that STIGMA of running the "C" or even "B" main.

Maybe that's something this track can address... I like the idea. They just got Alycat this past season and that has the capability to sort by driver ability. Actually, that'd be really cool if they could integrate that, because like you said, a driver that has a really good day would be better off with the fast guys. Hopefully it can be worked out that way.

Matt