reading different forums like hobbytalk i am not sure about lipos.
they seem safe if charged per the instructions. the question i have is has anyone had a problem with a lipo that is charged how it should be

boyland has a picture up of a lipo that exploded into fire. but he did not say how it happened what i want to know was how was it being charged:confused: what was the charger set at:confused:what kinda charger:confused:

i know the off road guys are running lipos and i am ready to make the switch in oval but i dont want to destroy my car while doing it:freak:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=222756&page=20

this is the picture

if you read, sombody who says they were there (unverified) said it was charged on a GFX charger that was accidentally left in NIMH mode.

I have seen first hand that if you charge a LIPO on NIMH mode on some chargers, they will CONTINUE TO CHARGE until the battery bursts into flames.

From what I understand, a LIPO has no PEAK..it will keep taking voltage, unlike a NiMh or a NiCad that will get to a point of full charge then start dropping volts (Peak Charge)

I haven't seen one incident of a LIPO having a problem when charged correctly. User error has been the cause of all the failures I've seen, 2 of which happened at my LHS when Lipos were being charged on the bench...one of which caught fire, the other just puffed up.

SWTOUR

your site has good info to but i am still concerened if that was user error or did his charger malfunction? I mean how do you leave your charger on nimh if your charging lipos

splash,

It's actually pretty easy if you use the same charger for more than ONE type of racing.

You are setting up your pits...trying to get a battery charged so you can get out and practice...

You Scroll through the menu and select the Mah of the battery (On some of the chargers you select Battery Type, Mah of the pack, Charge Rate...

Guys are so use to charging NiMh, they don't even think about it and skip over when it says NiMh, and they set the Mah rate, then the amp rate..and hit charge.

It's not until their pack looks like an ALLIGATOR all puffed up and swollen they realize "OH CRAP" and notice the charger says NIMH in the battery type.

Myself, I use the ORION ADVANTAGE charger and use it for both NiMh and LIPO packs depending on what and where I'm racing. So every race I have to set the menu. THANKFULLY that charger will NOT charge a LIPO in Nimh mode... it gives an error message to check battery, or check source (I forget what it says) Some chargers - don't have that luxury....and will charge.....and they will look for the PEAK and it will NEVER COME w/ lipo.

sounds like CE should have some type of protection built in like ur orion so guys that are not paying attention dont fry there bateries. that or get a different charger that they are capable of using correctly. have you guys had any issues out there with faulty equipment?

When you first cut the GFX on, you can choose between NIMH or LiPO. Like Swtour said, the user probably just hit the NIMH mode by mistake. In LiPO mode, you can set the maximum charge seconds so if something does happen and it doesn't peak at 8.40v, it quits discharging at the max seconds setting. It sounds like user error.

All I know is the pack I mean fire ball was seen from about 100 yard away. AND it was being charged indoors. Now that is kinda scary!!

Oh and I know who "splashrc" is muhahaha

I haven't seen any "FAULTY" equipment, but I have seen ONE Charger, that I've read reports on as a DO NOT USE charger....It was like a DURATRAX brand or something similar. (I'll look at the LHS next time I'm in there...they BURNT a pack up w/ one of these too...and it was hooked up correctly...it was an airplane pack)

Joe, I read on the thunder site, that is where the lipo failure occurred. That the pack was left unattended attached to the charger , that somehow power to the charger was interrupted and the power was restored. It is believed the charger setting reset during the power interruption and the charger began charging up to 17volts. This is what I read so you know what "I heard is worth". It began making nosie and was taken outside where it failed stuff got ugly.

Preston where you there?

I'll take a Fireball over a shotgun blast from a IB any day!!!!!!!!

Splachrc, CE can only protect us a limited amount. They can't prevent neglect.

Back in the day I had a Tekin BC100 charger melt a pack of 1200sc. We where dirt oval racin then, well it so happens that red clay got down into the charge push button. Once the button was pushed it stayed down, over ridding the peak detection, it just charged to the cells melted and vented on the bench. ugly

Yea Ron I wasn't in the pit room though. We saw it all the way from the pavillion area.

Remeber the 1st Associated charger - the 2 alligator clips and long wire with 2 more clips. Had to take off when the battery was warm manually....

I had a BC100 fail to stop at PEAK on 2 different occasions...and came just short of a fire.

I loved my old TEKIN chargers - moving to something else was one of the hardest things I did... (I had 7 TEKIN Peak Chargers) that all use to be being used at the same time....sadly, I still have them. Boy, how times change...

Remeber the 1st Associated charger - the 2 alligator clips and long wire with 2 more clips. Had to take off when the battery was warm manually....


Mine had the "Associated" Plug on one end...and the jumpers on the other.

'Charge until battery feels warm' LOL - we had 5 or 6 batteries go UP IN SMOKE on the first race day. WHAT were they thinking!!

Then.... B&B Juice Machine for me, then a DELTA Peak Charger..then the TEKINS

I have never had my GFX switch from lipo to NiMH when the power has gone out you have to manuelly change it. So i'm not sure what is going on but its not right. I was there and the battery got up to 13 volts before it started to swell. Not sure how tall the fence is 15 or 20 feet tall but the flames were about half way up the fence and it didn't explode. It swelled and then started on fire no great big explosion or any of that. It was like someone lit a match under it and it started to burn.

I have never had my GFX switch from lipo to NiMH when the power has gone out you have to manuelly change it. So i'm not sure what is going on but its not right.

Ditto. If it went straight to Nimh, it needs to be sent back to CE. I have to manually choose between Nimh and LiPO. What version software did the GFX have? I think there was a revision between the original LiPO software and the current version.

A LiPO bag would have prevented the large fire.

Remeber the 1st Associated charger - the 2 alligator clips and long wire with 2 more clips. Had to take off when the battery was warm manually....


zip cord...put a new pack on one ...started to eat dinner..forgot it was on...smoked! lol

Hank, yes it would have; but being in florida there are so many things to do other than race we have to have something to attract people to the track. Mike can use this as a marketing tool saying how hot the racing is in MTR. LOL

I'll take a Fireball over a shotgun blast from a IB any day!!!!!!!!

I say both are dangerous. From what I see a Lipo doesn't just light up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gboge17PNBk

Mike, loved those "jumper wires" from the van. Just hold your hand near them to see it they where hot enough!!!!


ahhhhh!!!!! back in the day, low tech, 2 classes, 400 cars at a race.

I say both are dangerous. From what I see a Lipo doesn't just light up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gboge17PNBk


You must have watched a different video then I saw. :) That is all it did was burn. Not that it didn't burn big. at the very end it said that it wasn't do discourage the use of lipo, but to educate people of the danger if you make a mistake when charging.

Gfx power interupt will not start charging if this happens..
you know what they say "can't handle the heat stay outta the kitchen"

I say both are dangerous. From what I see a Lipo doesn't just light up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gboge17PNBk
Give me a BREAK! try plugging your automotive battery into 120v wall outlet and see what happens! All batteries are DANGEROUS! Proper charging is key to safety. Pay attention! We have been using Lipo for over 2 years and never have "flamed" a single one. A few puffed up, and a few have been ruined (still running my original one) but no major incidents.

Give me a BREAK! try plugging your automotive battery into 120v wall outlet and see what happens! All batteries are DANGEROUS! Proper charging is key to safety. Pay attention! We have been using Lipo for over 2 years and never have "flamed" a single one. A few puffed up, and a few have been ruined (still running my original one) but no major incidents.

There, you said it. That's exactly what I meant to state by posting the link. All batteries are dangerous when used the wrong way. Those scared about nimh's blowing up shouldn't be expecting the Lipos to be the holy grail of battery safety.

Frankly if ever I go to a track where guys are charging Lipos on a charger that can accidently be set in NIMH mode, I'll be watching my back and pitting next to the fire exit.

I never had a 4200mah blow up un me either. But because it didn't happen at the races I attended, didn't mean it didn't go on elsewhere, in fact it did, as we all know.

We all need to take a course on safely charging all the types of batteries by competent people, and understand the characteristics of the batteries we're working with. Or else we'll just keep exposing ourselves to dangers.

I'm taking a break from racing nowadays, but I have a 1yr old son I would like to get into racing when he's about 8 or 9 if he likes it. I don't want to worry about stuff like that when he's racing.

I agree with Captdan, How many times over the years have we abused the cells were running that particular day? You can over charge a Lipo if you choose too its as simple as that. I use a Lipo bag, its worth the piece of mind and a track requirement. I don't find this anymore time consuming than charging my Nimh by temp verses peak, I don't walk away from a Nimh pack when its getting close on temp and in my opinion the Lipos are less work in the pits and at home. The compitition has grown at are track by leaps and bounds sense we have switched over I haven't had this much fun in years!!!!!

I think if we had to use a charger with FIXED settings, this wouldn't be an issue. Seems like when some one post that a lipo went wrong, it is with a charger that allows you to set the type of battery max charge or cell count etc. There are charger out there that are idiot proof. Why not mandate them. I know, it will cost more. So?

I think if we had to use a charger with FIXED settings, this wouldn't be an issue. Seems like when some one post that a lipo went wrong, it is with a charger that allows you to set the type of battery max charge or cell count etc. There are charger out there that are idiot proof. Why not mandate them. I know, it will cost more. So?
Great idea! Orion chargers could be responsible for our Lipo success. Everyone crys over the price of converting, but a simple "Lipo only" Orion charger can be had for around $30.00. The next step up is $75-80 which will do NiMh, and is an easy to operate model.I have both of these chargers and they are simple to use, although the cheaper version is slower it still does the job.
As long as stupid people do stupid things a mandate could be considered, of course that will open up a whole new argument!

With the new 5300 NiMh that is coming out, and everyone who is running NiMh now......it seems like a good time to switch. What do you think?

I thought this would be a good thread to ask this question, since it may also have safety implications:

Question:
How do most people connect the LiPo battery to the speed control. I know some of the batteries have connector sockets built in. However, with the NiMh batteries we always soldered the wires. Are most using the connectors, or is there a way to solder the wires to the battery.

The connectors are going to have resistance, which will affect the performance. This may not be to bad for 17.5 and 21.5, but I would think that if you are running hotter motors the connectors could not only be a power loss, but may also get very hot and even melt things.

Saw a full page today in my new RC Mag... from A123... anyone use them or see them yet??

http://www.a123racing.com

Actually, tests have shown that good quality connectors have no more resistance then wire of the same length.

Question:
How do most people connect the LiPo battery to the speed control.

I use good quality 4mm gold bullets soldered to the end of the ESC wire (Plugs right into the battery - 3200 ORION) So far they have been great - and it's really nice not having a HOT Soldering iron in the pits.

Hank,

In my 30+ years of industrial electronics I've seen a lot of problems with "good" power connectors. A lot of them start off working good but after a time they will start causing problems. It seems that in the beginning some of them will actually get better with use, but at some time they will start going bad. I wonder how well the lipo connectors work after a season of racing.

We've been using the LIPO w/ the 4mm plugs for about a year now.

I've tried 3 different brands so far

Trinity
Great Plains
Dura-Flite (or something similar)

My favorites are the ones from Great Plains, because they have a notch so you can make your wires angle away.

In the past year, I've had 2 connections that started getting loose feeling in the battery. (They were the TRINITY connectors) and I quickly replaced them with the ones from Great Plains.

I have 5 B/L ESC's and 7/3200 Lipo batteries that my son and I run in about 1/2 dozen different cars through the year...and we're running somewhere about 35-40 weekends a year.

This thread was from several months ago...ANYTHING DIfferent to report now, almost 6 months later?

SWTOUR

your site has good info to but i am still concerened if that was user error or did his charger malfunction? I mean how do you leave your charger on nimh if your charging lipos


How do you plug a pack backwards when there is a positive and negative mark or colored wire ? It's called a mistake and they happen.

If you set your peak detect to high on sub-c cells they vent. In the last few years cells would have internal shorting/failures and blow up like a grenade. The sub-c manufacturers fixed this by changing the pressure the positive cap needed to pop. So instead of grenading the cap popped off which was better than a full blown explosion.

I have been testing Lipos for 2 and half years. I have tested sample packs and production packs. I have yet to swell one. If a pack failure was to happen or an error was to happen having the pack in a Lipo sack would limit the effects of the fire.

The use of ROAR approved packs is also reccomended as they have been tested for safety and should withstand overcharging and other potential issues.

Batteries produce energy and there is no energy source that is 100% safe.

You mean that nuclear pack I’m developing is a no go? :)

IMHO - The 'BIRDS are going to be interesting...with the way guys like to PUSH the envelope on SO many issues...WHO's going to be the 'Battery' story?

I'm puttin' that nuclear pack in an SMC case so Danny can take the heat when everyone has to go a get decontaminated!

so far i have not had a prob with cells expanding yet, hope to keep it that way!!!

I think we saw roughly 4-5 packs get swollen up in '08

Most were during CHARGE, by guys who run several classes on race day (including some round cell classes) and the charged the LIPO on the NiMh charger.

NONE of these cells smoked or caught fire, and we're quickly removed from the charger and taken out of the immediate pit areas to let sit. RIGHT or WRONG, we don't require the use of a LIPO Sack, but our events by the numbers are small and in pretty wide open areas.

At an event with very tight quarters, and 100's of racers ... I would have NO problem or issues supporting a LIPO Sack or a containment BOX Rule of some type...

I do believe the MORE we use, and the MORE we learn about LIPOS -- the better we ALL become with them over time.

I'm puttin' that nuclear pack in an SMC case so Danny can take the heat when everyone has to go a get decontaminated!

No problem as I can handle these kind of issues. I have been accused of many things before.

I think we saw roughly 4-5 packs get swollen up in '08

Most were during CHARGE, by guys who run several classes on race day (including some round cell classes) and the charged the LIPO on the NiMh charger.

NONE of these cells smoked or caught fire, and we're quickly removed from the charger and taken out of the immediate pit areas to let sit. RIGHT or WRONG, we don't require the use of a LIPO Sack, but our events by the numbers are small and in pretty wide open areas.

At an event with very tight quarters, and 100's of racers ... I would have NO problem or issues supporting a LIPO Sack or a containment BOX Rule of some type...

I do believe the MORE we use, and the MORE we learn about LIPOS -- the better we ALL become with them over time.

Being new to the whole lipo thing myself, what I have done to try to make my setup idiot proof is to keep things separate. My chargers are battery type specific, nimh only and lipo only, also I have set it up so I use different connectors for both. The club I race with has different classes for lipo and the others. Lipo's are only allowed in modified class and nimh in stock and from the sounds of things, that will change this summer with more of us going lipo. As for me, I have never had a problem with charging either type of battery in the 20+ years of playing this game. The thing to remember is to keep an eye on your chargers and batteries while charging them.