Recently I attend an race where on the flyer they had a max voltage for the lipo classes. It was tech at the tech bench. A couple of racers batteriers where over the max volts posted. One was .01 over the other was over 8.50 not sure how much over. The tech dude had the drivers run there cars a few laps and rechecked the voltage, it was then found to be at or below the posted voltage. The racer was allowed to run the heat or main. This reoccurred on these same cars during the event.
After the race I took the race promoter aside and asked it he was aware of the happening. He said, yes. And that that was a thing that ROAR had satrted (this was not a ROAR event) and he said that he had heard (we all know about the I heard stuff) that at the Nats they even had a discharger at tech to bring down the voltage it your battery was above the post number.

An aside, I was at the ROAR region 3 ovals at Easley in May, this over voltage isues was noted a few times and the racers where not allowed to run the heats wher tech noted the hight volt number. Right on Donny.

Back the to point, what si the purpose of the rule? To limit voltage, NO, it is a saftey thing. If over voltage is allowed to be sactioned by tech/promoters sooner or later some bad will happen, then what?? The reaction will be huge and negitive.

WAKE UP OUT there. I believe if a racer presents a car for tech with an over voltage condition, they should be disqualified from the heat, if it occurs a second time they should be disquilified from the event period.

I Couldn't agree more!!!!!!

I agree too.

Ron he was not that high on the Voltage..Look at the lap times he was nowere close to Tom. I see your point but it was a club race..A national yes DQ for that heat sounds good. I just think it's fliping funny as hell people think that its the voltage that they are getting beat by in lipo. Tom's car went through the corrner smoother then silk.. I thought my car was good and I was a lap in a half off. So that being said......Work on the car ron.

http://thunder.rcresults.com/2008SpringFCCOval/


Look at Matt Stegman's times. This is who Ron is talking about. Yes he was a tad over charged...Did it matter? NO. We could have all been overcharged and still would have got are rears handed to us by Tom.

For some reason I think this thread has NOTHING to do with saftey.. More like damaged Ego's!

Preston your missing the point the limit is set for safety reasons.

here is a question just because you set your charger to cutoff at 8.4 volts doesn't mean that it is actually cutting off at that. every charger is different. so it is entirely possiable that the racer had a cutoff set to 8.4 but on his charger that is a little higher.

I get the Point it's Saftey.

Before I left Minnreg I over heard 3 people talking about Matt, then one says "tom has to be cheating" LMFAO So thats were my post came from because one of them was in this thread already!

Now I'm not going to drop names but its funny this thread pops up right after...Hmm

Let me guess now Boylan is going to get slamed on here because Matt got to race.. bs

DP, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! Your narrowness of vision is a problem.

I am not worried about how fast someone's car was or wasn't. My skills as a driver suck, I could use Tom car and I would not be much faster than I am with my car.

THIS IS ABOUT SAFTEY!!!!!!! yes I am yelling!!!!!!!

BTW, did you notice I did not mention what race or who, thats not important.

Did you notice the responses above yours? Why did they responsed the way they did?

So it is ok to have a lipo meltdown at a local race, have the fire department investigate. what happened, not be able to use the facility again. Loose the venue for the snowbirds because is it was only a local race!!!!

A year ago many track operator's would not let lipos at the track, because of all the bad press. With what appears as lipo being our future. If we have one, just one incident, this hobby is done

[QUOTE=98Ron;2434824]DP, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! Your narrowness of vision is a problem.

No Ron I just see through the BS. Mike asked you to keep it on the Down low so you leave Thunder and come to HT. Like these guys couldn't put 2 and 2 together and figure out what race it was..

Was inductance checked on the 21.5 motors?

No it wasn't.

Ouch!

I don't even own a lipo charger yet, I had a fellow racer charge mine and it was over.. I had to discharge it some to race.

Dave thats a good point on the cut off. Mabye we should set the cut off in the charger a tad bit lower?

DP, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! Your narrowness of vision is a problem.

I am not worried about how fast someone's car was or wasn't. My skills as a driver suck, I could use Tom car and I would not be much faster than I am with my car.

THIS IS ABOUT SAFTEY!!!!!!! yes I am yelling!!!!!!!

BTW, did you notice I did not mention what race or who, thats not important.

Did you notice the responses above yours? Why did they responsed the way they did?

So it is ok to have a lipo meltdown at a local race, have the fire department investigate. what happened, not be able to use the facility again. Loose the venue for the snowbirds because is it was only a local race!!!!

A year ago many track operator's would not let lipos at the track, because of all the bad press. With what appears as lipo being our future. If we have one, just one incident, this hobby is done


I am following you Ron good post

let me add is to the point I made about the cutoff on the charger. if it were me in practice I would set my cutoff to 8.4 charger the pack let it sit then repeak pull it off the charger and go to tech and use the meter and see what it says . if it is over there are several things you can do 1st would be alert the race officials. and let them know. next is lower your cut off.


But IMHO nothing should be kept on the down low.

Mr. Preston, Mike did not ask me to keep it on the down low about lipo over charge. He did ask me not to post about an on track incident of which I was not involved. I did not post about it.

I have raced aginst the best rc racers in the world and had my butt handed to me by all of them. I have no ego with regard to RC racing, I just want to be safe and have a hobby in play in for the future.

Ron the ego comment was not directed at you. He knows who he is..

found it! lol

damn lipos!

Yes I was overvoltage but ron you got your butt handed to you all day long. We all did for that matter. Tom was at 58 laps and David and myself were at 57 in the main. My car sat there for 20 min after it had charged before we went out to the main. David if I remember right you were at the same voltage as I was before the main. Oh and david I will see you sunday at MTR so you can talk to me face to face.

A couple of racers batteriers where over the max volts posted. One was .01 over the other was over 8.50 not sure how much over.

I was standing in line for tech in the main, 1st time was 8.55 volts car was ran a couple laps second check was still 8.50 volts car was ran a few more laps, dont know what the final check read because I had already passed Tech and moved to the stand.....shaking my head. I can see coming to tech .01 or .02 over due to charger variance, but this was Way over.
This IS a Safety Rule that needs to be inforced and racers need to be let known it will be inforced. I agree with Ron one Fire in the building and we wont be racing Lipo OR nimh there ANYMORE.

I wish if people had a problem they would have said something at the race instead of jumping on the forums to talk it up. I guess keyboard courage is running rampant again and nobody has testicular fortatude for say it to my face or bring it up in conversation. Brian0525 I know it was not inductance that I was beat by but a much better handling race car and a better driver in Tom.

:wave:

This IS a Safety Rule that needs to be inforced and racers need to be let known it will be inforced. I agree with Ron one Fire in the building and we wont be racing Lipo OR nimh there ANYMORE.

I get my Butt handed to me all the time :rolleyes: my concern is with a Safety Rule not being inforced and the possible implications to OUR racing if some continue to disregard the Safety rule.

it appears that ron and a few others have a major problem with allowing overcharging to take place. and in the future ron and the other racers would like to see you DQ'd before the race starts..this way maybe next time you won't allow the charger to keep on charging...

this way guys in trailers can over charge and check voltage with a meter until it's right.....

and ron hagan is one of the nice guys we race with..and he does understand what it takes to win and go fast...ron has stopped caring about being the fastest a long long time ago...he races now to have fun and help others...he just wants to see the over charging stop asap...


how many of you guys own and used a lipo sack? 1 maybe 2 lol

smokey the bear says..."you better not melt down minnreg"

After looking at Hopetons to see how there made I,ve already ordered one for the price theres no excuse.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=lipo+charging+sack&search=Go

What about the nimh situation. 2 packs blew up..Went off like a shot gun blast. Kal barly got it out of his hand before it blew up. To me there just as dangerous but no one cares how hard we charge them.

Thank you Ron for the nice discussion we had the track. The voltage rule was honestly a 'speed performance' concern of mine as I am really not caught up with the Lipo racing yet. But after thinking about it from a different viewpoint I can see the bigger issue of safety, not speed.

The incident comment was a friendly jab between Ron, Irish, and I when I drafted into Jeff and took us both out haha. That was it. I was teasing Ron not to post my hair brain take out move LOL.

The issue with Sub-C's blowing still worries me. Kal had the one shotgun go off - and it was a pack I loaned him that I got at the Masters last year (a 4200).

Good thread. I think it will help the future of the class.

Also was thinking, does anyone like Venom, or someone, make an on-board voltmeter cars would be mandated to run (if the price was right). This could make things a whole lot easier, for all the heats and mains, on a local level too.

The 8.4v rule is more for parity (so we won't have any overcharging discussions like this) and safety. A lot of us carry voltmeters in our pit boxes/trailers,why not check your voltage (and discharge the excess) and keep within the track rules before going to tech?
-George

Also was thinking, does anyone like Venom, or someone, make an on-board voltmeter cars would be mandated to run (if the price was right). This could make things a whole lot easier, for all the heats and mains, on a local level too.
Venom makes one. So does Dynamite ($29.99).
http://images.amainhobbies.com/images/medium/dyn4062.jpg

Nice looking!

I'll have to go to HW sometime & see how big this thing really is. It kinda reminds me of my alarm clock! LOL
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/products_id/18740

If the track or event rules state that I had to run one of these,I personally wouldn't have a problem doing it.

this is a great idea but i do see one problem most receivers only have 4 ports 1) servo 2) seedo 3) person trans 4) receiver capaciter where do you guys plan on pluging this thing in.. and on the other side of this i wouldn't mind having to run one since right now i am trying to find ways to get more weight on my car... i was not there this weekend but one thing i am sure of is mike boylan is not going to do anything shady and then ask people not to say anything. i also agree that this is more of a safety thing than an advantage issue. before i really started reading this i was thinking who cares if some one is 5-10 mah over make them run some laps to even it out and then as i read this it started making sense safety for every one is first and if someone wants to put other people in a possible dangerous situation then maybe they should take the week off....us guys running lipo are kind of like guinea pigs "sorry if its misspelled" all its going to take is a couple really bad stories and we might be finding another new power source i am starting to close to having to much invested to just walk away and start over. lets get our stuff together """play""" by the rules and have fun.. with out hurting any one

Doughboy you don't have to run the spektrum voltage cap if you are running lipo or 6 cell for that matter.

Mike, thanks for listening.

BTW, the meter plugged into the received will not read the drive battery voltage only the received pack voltage.

And again, I think you may be missing the point of the rule as ROAR intended (yea I know for the most part most of you don't care what ROAR has to say) IT is for saftey, so metering your battery and then dumping the surface charge is just working around the rule. Overcharge is still a saftey issue.

Kat, thank you for understanding my position, you are more observant that I took you for. That's a compliment, se ya at Strickland.

Brian0525 I know it was not inductance that I was beat by but a much better handling race car and a better driver in Tom.

I am glad you are convinced of that and you might be right. I was convinced the same for 2 months till we found out different and I actually had a better car the whole time!

Brian; Tom also won the 10.5 a-main. He also helped me make my car better, and he has a reputation to uphold in this sport as a sponsored driver and an all around great person as far as i'm concerened, so yes I am convinced he kicked my butt because his car was handling far better than mine. I think dpreston would also agree.

Here is 'our' boy Ron Hagan back in the day. Yes that is me and Ron about 15 years ago at least. I respect Ron's outlook, as everyone's, and it is great to see guys like Ron still racing and passionate about our hobby as they were then, and now.

http://www.snowbirdnationals.com/images/oldmejoel.jpg

Brian; Tom also won the 10.5 a-main. He also helped me make my car better, and he has a reputation to uphold in this sport as a sponsored driver and an all around great person as far as i'm concerened, so yes I am convinced he kicked my butt because his car was handling far better than mine. I think dpreston would also agree.

You have totally missed the point! I have raced with Tom and I know he is a solid racer and never said he did anything, so stop twisting!!!!

When running 21.5's there is a whole batch of earlier 21.5 motors that aren't what they are supposed to be and sometimes you can be chasing something that can't be caught if the person that is fast has one of these motors and is any good(which Tom is) you will never catch the person with a legit motor! With that said you caould be right that it wasn't one of these motors but you will never know without checking.

There isn't just a couple of these motors there are most likely about 50 or more. I personally know of at least 12!

People are running them and don't even know it until they compare back to back runs with only the motor swap and then you see a lap plus lost when running a legit 21.5 motor.

..... Overcharge is still a saftey issue.It definitely is,especially in the pits or in a trailer.

98ron you may want to reread my post i am agreeing with you 100% what i said was that at first i didn't think it was that big of a deal but after reading this whole thread i started to get it and that i agree with you 100% please read it again.....

We all agree that 13.5 4cell and 21.5 lipo are the same speed right?
Look at the lap times from the ROAR Nats for 13.5 (miller, kimpton and myself)
And look at my 21.5 lipo the lap times from this past race, my car still is not as fast as it could be.
As far as my motor being questionable, I don’t think that is the case, but my motor has never been tested. If anybody wants to test it, I have no problem with that, but you will be disappointed with the results. BTW I only have (1) 21.5 motor.
http://thunder.rcresults.com/2008RoarCarpetOval/
http://thunder.rcresults.com/2008SpringFCCOval/

doughboy, I reread your post. I understand that you understand. I did not present my position of metering and bleedoff well. I was responding to an earlier post about working around the rule, not yours.

Mike, you where young back then!!!!!! The gray t bird days. That car had a lota miles put on it.

Tom beats me every weekend, Sunday it wasn't any diffrent. Tom is the man to beat in whatever class he runs in. Thats why I thought it was funny to hear someone call him a cheat..

Tom beats me every weekend, Sunday it wasn't any diffrent. Tom is the man to beat in whatever class he runs in. Thats why I thought it was funny to hear someone call him a cheat..

who called him a cheat?

nobody called nobody a cheat this thread is so fockin stupid.

here it is Black and White the 8.4 volt rule is there for safety point blank.

Stegman if you let your pack sit for 20 mins and it was still over 8.4 volts

then i have to ask you what was your cut off at? asuming it is set to 8.4 then you should really link about sending that charger in to be calibrated. you have a potential fire fock ball on your hands

who called him a cheat?

LMAO I walked up on three of the Lipo 21.5 racers Sunday, One of them thinks Tom is cheating. It wasn't posted on here. It was just somthing I heard at the track thats all. I'm sure "racer x" wont come on here and post what he thinks though :confused:

I attended the Nats so I saw how fast Miller was in 13.5 so there is still more speed in 21.5.

I had to borrow a motor from Stegman to race I don't even own one yet.

well i guess we can officially say that we are now beating a dead horse lets all move on i think everything has been aired out and i think this thread was actually educational for some atleast i know it was for me...

the young and old grasshoppers need remember there is nothing...nothing that will make us all equal! not lipo not brushless not spec! some guys try alot harder than others and are better drivers and wrenches.......someone has to win and someone has to lose.

tom builds his own cars..from cutting his own chassis to using a chassis dyno at his house..the guy comes to the track ready for war.......so yes it is toms fault he is fast...it's our fault we can't catch him!

it's not his motor..tom checks his own motors before race day.......it's not his lipo pack........he is good...he is the top 1% in florida..........

but remember this....when all the oval heads in the country come to race tom is not the fastest car on the track! fast is just relative to who you are racing with.......there is always someone faster!

you all need lipo sacks and you all need to charge those packs to the legal limit!


as for 4200 old azz packs that sgould be thrown away blowing up...use thos old things at your own risk! the newer cells do not have nearly as many problems as the old ones do....

things will happen........we need to do our best to be safe........

c u cheaters at stricklands ahahahahahahahahah

WOW!

Overcharging lipos does very little for speed and adds more heat to the motor due to the increase in watts.

Watts= voltage X amps

Since the 21.5 motor is on the lower-end of brushed motors I personal see very little difference in lap times from 8.4 volts to 8.6 volts.

Do you need to Overcharging lipos ? No.
Setup and Driving is still key.

WOW!

very little difference in lap times from 8.4 volts to 8.6 volts.

.


is that very little or none? cause a little goes a long way!