As this has no much interest and goes beyond just the CD R/C Racers, I did George and Dee the favor of starting their own thread. The "I" in the following post refers to Dee, the author of the original post.
Kirt
************************************************** ********************

Just so everyone knows where George and I stand....

Winter carpet season went well the first year and has been declining ever since. We have absolutely NO business in our track in the summer. For the amount of space it is taking up it really needs to pull in profit all year round.

So...we came up with an indoor dirt track idea. We will extend it to the wall (where the models are) to make it a little bigger and put up a wall. We have an extra room for pit space, and parking can be in our lot, on the side streets, or across the street at the shopping plaza. To save on money, carpool!

Our goal is to make this track produce income all year round! We are aware that there are different seasons so we decided to run yours, as well as create 2-3 more race days for those that can make it.

We would like to hear any and all comments, objections, suggestions, etc. Who is willing to help with manual labor? What products we would need to order to get you guys what you need? What do we need to start? So please email us at mannhome1@aol.com or call (518)272-9040. We want to make this for you guys so your input is much appreciated. Thanks everyone!

Dee Kahler
Science and Hobby
623 2nd Ave
Watervliet, NY 12189
(518) 272-9040

Get directions (http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=0,0,11942886258579073782&fb=1&dq=science+and+hobby+loc:+Watervliet,+NY&daddr=1623+2nd+Ave,+Watervliet,+NY+12189&geocode=18129738616925606120,42.728171,-73.701823&ll=42.728171,-73.701823&iwstate1=dir:to&iwloc=A&f=d&sa=X&oi=local_result&resnum=1&ct=directions-to)

Hi from Broadalbin , JAY W just a comment or two. dirt track = EDM cars only. with BIG Mikes track on saturday, Compitetion Hobbie on Monday, Master Hobbie on Friday, who can and will race two or more times a week.

Jay i beleive the main goal here is winter racing

At the risk of being the target for many comebacks, I will be the voice of dissent. I prefer dirt in the summer, carpet in the winter. It stays fresh with the change and I believe dirt year round will become monotonous and may actually cause some drop outs. I am also a fan of Sunday racing. Mondays just keep me up too late and the alarm goes off too early Tuesday morning. I really don't understand why dirt racers don't bring their EDM's out for carpet, it's a blast.

That said I will race whatever is available in the area. All is good guys.

The biggest problem for us now isn't the speed, it's the competition. When you look at the industry as a whole, the surging areas are low traction forms of racing (i.e. offroad and dirt oval.) Why? Because everything is less critical. Your setup can be off a little, your batteries and motors don't have to be the best, and your wheel could be a little rusty; and you still can go out and have a shot at winning.

High traction forms of racing (oval and road course) have been declining. Because every little thousandth of a second comes into play. And slowing down the cars only makes setup and driving that much more critical. Thus rules need to be that much tighter.



guys who switched to dirt oval could not hang with pan cars in the first place we had a few guys run away from pan cars as well..but they never ran up front...


Mike, this will get ya started for reasons why people want to run dirt all year long :rolleyes: Keep in mind that these are quotes from well known carpet racers...I have additional theories, but I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

This is why they make different flavors of icecream!...everyone's likes and dislikes are different. But the bottom line is a indoor dirt track will provide the store owner a opportunity to stay in business. As for the change, well nobody likes change! plain and simple....but store owners do like money and thats the bottom line.

Can pan cars run on dirt?

plain and simple....

Is it?...we'll see

Racin Jason....the first guy that puts a indoor dirt track in wins!...Rednecks r/c gets no less than 60 entries every week....how many entries did s&h get this past carpet season? the last time anyone had a good car count on carpet was Pete Willis at the boys club...maybe ten years ago...ever since then it's been in the toilet.

Racin Jason....the first guy that puts a indoor dirt track in wins!...Rednecks r/c gets no less than 60 entries every week....how many entries did s&h get this past carpet season? the last time anyone had a good car count on carpet was Pete Willis at the boys club...maybe ten years ago...ever since then it's been in the toilet.
Really? I've been all over the Northeast during the last three carpet seasons and have seen extremely successful carpet tracks. The Capital region is behind the times in regards to carpet, but that is another can of worms.

You are right about an indoor dirt track, we've been hearing guys ask for it for years. I have nothing against dirt...I started there, and have even raced at your beloved Rapid Transit when I was like 12. But, when I see comments like "when are our friends in GF gonna wake up and put in a dirt track", it hits kinda close to home. :drunk:

Do we all remember the dirt track in AMSTERDAM , even though he was a butthead , the doors were closed and i do recall alot of people promising to show but never did . personally i will run DIRT or carpet at S&H this winter season because its close to home , tired of the 35 mile trip . If DIRT is what will keep dee and george up and runnin thats wonderful , GO FOR IT , No rain outs , no bugs plenty of good times to be had even with a buggy , truck or do edm CAR

dirt dirt dirt dirt dirt CARPET CARPET CARPET CARPET

DEE AND GEORGE
if u deceide to go with the dirt obviously u will need some DO car special stuff , IE Putnam, JRC , Hyperdrive , Go Fast etc and some tires like BSR pinks/silvers or RC4less pink and silvers , tire goop like stick it , trinity zip grip , marine grease , Putnam Goop etc etc


good luck in your decision making

I think that if this is what Dee and George need to do in order to better themselves and save their business, then they should go for it...assuming they consider every angle.

Can I run a nitro latemodel indoors?

Why do we even bother , like previously stated by Kirt , call science and Hobby and tell them how u feel

......................

..........................

Wow this turned ugly real quick. How about we all post our opinions and mine is simple. I just got back into RC this season after 15 years off and love it. One reason I got out when I was a teenager is I do not enjoy carpet racing one bit and I was too busy chasin women to race in the summer. When the last indoor dirt track closed its doors I quit racing. If there was an indoor dirt track in the area I would race there as much as possible when im not snowmobiling on the weekends in Jan-Mar. Weeknights would be great! To me carpet racing is too much about who has the best batteries and motors. As stated above I know I have a shot at outdriving somebody that has better equipment then me on dirt.......I just havent been able to do it yet this year......:)

I would race carpet at science and hobby if they made the track larger. tough to run pan cars there. I will gladly drive the 40 miles from my house to rch in south glens falls, great track run right. I have too much going on during the summer to race whether it is dirt or carpet. I think george and Dee will be really dissapointed if they go to dirt. It will do well in winter and die in the summer.

Ray

Legends on dirt??

WOW!!!!!
ANOTHER QUESTION ???? IS S&H ON A SLAB OR IS THERE A BASEMENT???:confused:.
IF THERE IS A BASEMENT YOU WILL HAVE TO BRACE UP UNDER THE TRACK TO HOLD THE WEIGHT OF THE CLAY AND PEOPLE. IF IT'S ON A SLAB PERFECT.:thumbsup:
JUST SOMETHING ELSE TO THINK ABOUT.:confused::confused:

BIG MIKE

RAZOOOOOOO......YOU CAN RACE ANYTHING ON THE DIRT(R/C CARS,R/C TRUCKS,MATCHBOXES,ETC..ETC.. HELL YOU CAN EVEN RACE A STICK WITH WHEELS) IT'S ALL IN THE SETUP .LOLOLOLOLOLOL:thumbsup:

good point Mike

The basemant thing is one hell of a good point. :thumbsup:

John

razoooooo u have a PM and yes i have witnessed legends on dirt

racin' youre answer is asleep at the wheel... big mike you got pm

racin' youre answer is asleep at the wheel... big mike you got pm

HAHA...You always were!

I like racing both carpet and dirt. I will admit that I enjoy dirt more.

I understand the carpet racers concerns, and there are many valid points. On the other hand, if racers, (myself included) were racing as much at the local carpet tracks for the past several years as we do on the local dirt tracks, there would be no attraction to change any carpet facility into a dirt facility.

As Dee has stated, carpet has declined since they built it to the point where they are contemplating making a change.

Let's get the thread back on track and give George and Dee our ideas and thoughts. We are all passionate about our racing, understood, but let's try to be respectful and objective. :thumbsup:

One more point from me....

I didn't race last year at S&H because I saw that from an organizational point of view, quite frankly, it was a disaster. I hope that Kyle doesn't take this too hard, but you can't have kids trying to run that kind of club with a trial and error type of approach.

The club WAS successful after Pete Willis...under the guidance of Kirt C. When he left, things went downhill. So, if the dirt club gets a roof this winter who will run it?

I gotta agree Jason. I don't think carpet was really given that good of a chance at S&H. Never saw it advertised much. Didn't have any kind of "big" races and spending all day racing on Sundays isn't that attractive to me.
To depend on the "club" for all your racing isn't going to support any business in my way of thinking. I really hope if they go dirt it works out but I just wonder how many are going to support the place once the novelty wears off? Whos going to maintain the track? Seems to me theres a whole lot more work involved with a dirt track vs carpet. What about dust (dirt) control in the store? Will the track be maintained good enough to go practice on it any day of the week?
I'll wait a bit before I buy a flopper body for my S/K.

First of all i dont think this thread was made to be a boxing ring.

an 2nd i think Kyle deserves some credit at least he stepped up to the plate an tried.

I myself think its a great idea i know of about 8 local racers that traveled 320 miles every other sunday just to race dirt this winter.

One more point from me....

I didn't race last year at S&H because I saw that from an organizational point of view, quite frankly, it was a disaster. I hope that Kyle doesn't take this too hard, but you can't have kids trying to run that kind of club with a trial and error type of plan. Understood, and we discussed these topics at the club meetings and have come up with solutions.

The club was successful after Pete Willis...under the control of Kurt C. When he left, things went downhill. So, if the dirt club gets a roof this winter who will run it? Kirt has not left the club. The carpet racers/turnout went down long before Kirt stopped running the races. As you are aware, Science & Hobby / CD RC Club Carpet racing isn't the only area carpet track that has low turnouts for weekly racing. There have been preliminary discussions to possibly continue our Monday night dirt program indoors at the conclusion of the outdoor season if the facility is available.

Thought id throw in my 2 centz....

I think a indoor dirt track at S+H would be a good thing, but i dont think they should give up carpet. I ran carpet last year, and we had less and less people show up as the season went on. Dirt seems to be very popular, but again, as stated before, the chalenges of building, maintaining the track, What will happen to carpet, if theres a basement, etc.

Bottem line for me, how would it all play out? Would people like the idea but not support it? Do George and Dee have the rescourses, and do they know where to get them? But aside from all the "What if's", I would like a dirt oval.

Tom V

P.S If you need "manual Labor" i can help with that.

I gotta agree Jason. I don't think carpet was really given that good of a chance at S&H. Never saw it advertised much. Didn't have any kind of "big" races and spending all day racing on Sundays isn't that attractive to me. I kinda agree with you Rich, but considering the big races Ken has held, (NEOT, Adirondack Race, Etc;) has never seemed to help his weekly carpet turnout. I do agree that from a personal standpoint, spending an entire Sunday isn't attractive for me either.
To depend on the "club" for all your racing isn't going to support any business in my way of thinking. I think that if the club brings 50-60 racers into your shop on a weekly basis, it can only help support business and increase revenue. Look what our club does for Ollie's Deli on Monday nights alone, not to mention the hobby shop. I really hope if they go dirt it works out but I just wonder how many are going to support the place once the novelty wears off? I hope it works as well. As for how many will support it, I can't answer that or I would pick Lottery numbers...heh heh. Hopefully the large number of dirt racers on Monday nights now will support an indoor facility in the winter. Whos going to maintain the track? If it is structured like Competition, the club. Seems to me theres a whole lot more work involved with a dirt track vs carpet. Yes, primarily due to Mother Nature. What about dust (dirt) control in the store? George has already mentioned partitioning the track from the store, regardless of carpet or dirt to reduce the heat costs during the tracks down time. Will the track be maintained good enough to go practice on it any day of the week? It could be.
I'll wait a bit before I buy a flopper body for my S/K.
Hope this helps...

AH' so the racers go where the club [cdrc] goes.

one problem i faced during the winter and y i had alot of the kids helping me during the winter was lack of help. they were willing to help and lets face it one guy can't do it all by him self. now the whole dirt thing has been talked about for along time and right now i think this would be a good move to get numbers up somethings i was thinking was during the summer we do once a month events be it for braging rights or trophys u know make it in to some kinda of big events. this may bring up number for the guys the like to test and tune as myself. i thnink right now the idea is to get any kind of incresse in number during the summer and even in the winter i know i have always loved dirt more then carpet but i'll run whatever is there.

-Kyle

Guys
You are dealing with the same group that once covered a 40 x 100 foot track in two hours to hold a WDRA race for 65 racers. I think we can figure out how to support, build and maintain an indoor track.

By the way, commercial floor loading specifications are a lot more than what 2-3" of clay weigh.

Thanks for the input and offers to help.

Jay, to your point, as Jason stated earlier; what racers what is good competition, organization, and a fare and level playing field. Those things typically are not found in a "pick-up" race, and things don't last long.

See Ya...................At The Track (Wherever it is):thumbsup:
Kirt

Hey Jet......your thoughts?

"Hope this helps..."

Yes, it does. Sounds like if it is properly done and properly run it could be well received. Heck, I'm already thinking about grooving some of my S/K tires!!:) (I stole that from Jason);)

If S&H puts in a dirt track I will race each and every week. If S&H stocks the right parts in the hobby shop I will purchase from them...and last If S&H puts in a indoor dirt track it must have a handicap ramp so all racers can enjoy it! David Peek

First of all i dont think this thread was made to be a boxing ring.

an 2nd i think Kyle deserves some credit at least he stepped up to the plate an tried.

I myself think its a great idea i know of about 8 local racers that traveled 320 miles every other sunday just to race dirt this winter.

Take it easy , pal. I give credit to that young man for trying to fill 'those' shoes.

George Bush stepped up and tried to run this country...but that doesn't change the fact that he failed. But that's for another forum. :)

As for traveling 320 miles to race...that's like walking to the end of my driveway. :rolleyes:

Hey Jet......your thoughts?

Kirt,

Bret will only be around this winter if you offer a Nitro Mini-T class. :freak:

I guess that makes you the man.

Bob take off those boxing gloves.....lol After thinking about it some I always had fun on carpet. I had fun swapping paint with Ricky Talbot at the bingo hall, I had fun spanking Billy Wood at Rensalaer (with Bobs backup car) I had fun beating the Jet with his own car at Glensfalls, I had fun with Rob Snyder winning the 1st 200 lap team race at the RugCity raceway in Amsterdam(20 laps ahead).....but the most fun I have racing on dirt or carpet is when I can spend some time with all of my friends at the track....life gets so crazy these days, and it's nice to just turn it off for a few hours one night a week and go racing.....I would love to run dirt this winter....but If my buddies wanted to run some carpet some place one night a week...I indeed would be there! DP

Bob take off those boxing gloves.....lol After thinking about it some I always had fun on carpet. I had fun swapping paint with Ricky Talbot at the bingo hall, I had fun spanking Billy Wood at Rensalaer (with Bobs backup car) I had fun beating the Jet with his own car at Glensfalls, I had fun with Rob Snyder winning the 1st 200 lap team race at the RugCity raceway in Amsterdam(20 laps ahead).....but the most fun I have racing on dirt or carpet is when I can spend some time with all of my friends at the track....life gets so crazy these days, and it's nice to just turn it off for a few hours one night a week and go racing.....I would love to run dirt this winter....but If my buddies wanted to run some carpet some place one night a week...I indeed would be there! DP


Heck I had fun racing in your grandmothers garage with a couple 2x4's for walls and some kitty litter to make em slide......

As far as building a track im definately up for some labor and as far as maintainance youd be surprised how long a track lasts without mother natures influences. I think back to the R/T days and we tore the track up evry two months at the most and even then its because we were just bored after school. Its nothing club members cant handle. Id definately be in for some wintertime dirt racin......

By the way Dave my favorite team race win was only winning by 5 laps at the Schenectady carpet track with borrowed cars when niether of us ever ran carpet before.....:)

I think after the Amsterdam win they made you draw for your teammates.....:)


Rob

No that rule came after those 500 lap team races at pete's place.......lol

I guess that makes you the man.

Nope...this is the man, smartass.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:FHt5MECxaxQJ::http://www.safecitycommission.org/Upload/images/DaleEarnhardt.jpg (http://www.safecitycommission.org/Upload/images/DaleEarnhardt.jpg)

How true...

I think S&h is asking if more people will support there track in the summer if it was a dirt track

for the last 4-5 years, why has attendance been so much higher for the club on dirt than on carpet??
is it that dirt is more appealing to local racers?
is it the fact that monday racing is more appealing than sunday?
is it the limited number of classes?
is is the organization?

WOW INDOOR DIRT WOULD BE GREAT! I DONT HAVE TO DRIVE 5-6 HRS TO BUMPS AND JUMPS, RED NECK, OR RADIO HILL ANY MORE!!!:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo: ILL BE THERE PLUS AT LEAST 2 OR 3 OF MY FRIENDS:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Sounds to me like this could be beneficial to both tracks. Those who want to run dirt will go to S&H & those who want to run crapet will go to GF. This could boost the fields at both facilities.

I can say this: If there is going to be an indoor dirt track, I definitely wish I was living back in the Capital District!

Even if they can get 1/2 to 2/3 of the summertime dirt field, it sounds to me like they will be further ahead of where they are now at S&H. I would tend to think they'd get as many or more when everyone is trapped indoors during the cold winter months. I guarantee that if you throw in a couple "big" races in the winter there will be over 70 entries.....dirt guys are not afraid to travel, as evidenced by the winter indoor WDRA races that broke attendance records at both tracks!

Yes, the crowds will dry up when its time to go racing outside. It is a fact of life, but no worse than now, and if they have a hobby shop that actually stocks dirt oval parts, they could actually still make out in the summer.

This is a good thread despite the one crapet guy who seems to like to cause trouble. I'm not sure if I know or remember "Jason" but whoever you are you need to grow up a little and realize that there are oval cars other than pancars, and those cars and dirt racing is on the upswing, while crapet oval racing is stagnant at best.

Paul Brauer
WDRA Commish

I agree with Paul. I know at least 6 racers that would go with me.the only thing is that i dont think week nights will work in the winter.

Mr. johnqpublic, its spelled comisioner not commish. now for the good part, sure the attendence broke records at wdra events but what was the wopping record 25? we packed the place at rch for the adirondack challenge to race on carpet, and set track records in all classes. and what about the fella like me that doesnt wanna travel 75+ miles to go to dirt tracks and spend tons of money on a chassis that could compete with the rest of them. see you can say that its not a motor/tire game on dirt but look at what you are spending on a dirt chassis? and what is the beginner class on dirt? and whats the cost to start to be a contendor, im sorry but a b3/b4 buggy is not gonna win races. on carpet you can race anything. well i gotta go get the legends ready to go race razoo on the dirt!