So, guys...with 13.5 4 cell being so popular and 21.5 LiPo being so close (judging by these threads), what does everyone think about this class (21.5 "L") for this coming carpet season. I am going to give it a test whirl soon. :thumbsup:

I'll be racing one this summer at a race back in WI. We'll see how it goes.

the only thing I see is everyone who purchased 17.5's to replace the brushed stock class....will know be again asked to switch to 21.5's Lipo's?.....I think something is gonna give and the oval turnout will suffer......We all wonder why the turnout in oval
has been hurting lately but we are jumping from class to class..........I think too many classes is going to thin out the turnouts.....

Bud,

Read again...21.5 LiPo is close to 13.5 4 cell. And even so, would the necessary purchase of a BL motor deter you from racing even if in the end the "new" class once again saved you time and money?

I can't speak for everyone, but I know that with a newborn baby, gas, heating costs, etc., my racing schedule will be lighter this winter. I wouldn't mind dropping the whole NiMH battery maintenance deal myself. I have an excellent battery sponsor, but frankly, I'd like to just buy a couple of LiPo's if what they are saying is true.

Let's keep the thoughts coming....

How about getting weights back to where they were, like 38 oz.? I believe that LiPo's are MUCH lighter than a 4600 4 cell pack? You could save a lot of tire $$$$ and buy a couple of motors, a RMS-1, AND a Zubie meter!! lol. My tire bill last year was...HUGE :cool:

In my opinion the hassle factor and the cost savings factor are pretty overblown, especially from the perspective of a fairly serious racer. Personally I am less than excited about the switch.

That being said, I haven't really heard anyone who has switched have anything negative to say. That says a lot too.

It looks like this is the direction the wind is blowing, for better or for worse, so I'm going to try it out. I'd rather not be behind the times.

4 cell 17.5 isn't going to go anywhere for now. There is no LiPO eqivalent to it.

...cycled 9 packs last week. I figure (with one Novak SE and one T35) between discharge, equalization, and cycles I wasted about 10 hours. I would rather have "cycled" 9 diapers! :freak:

For me it's more about enjoying this hobby now than living it. I'm all about doing anything to spend less time on it while maintaining its integrity.

I hear you. Although if you were dead shorting, which I assume you aren't since you said you were using a Smart Tray, that would all be unnecessary. I let my stuff sit for 2 months and cycled it just because. 6 EP packs from way back in December all 4.99+, 5.5 to 6.1 IR, just as new.

I still think a lot of the bad rap NiMH has is thanks to hype, promotion of the wrong cells and wrong care methods. Just my opinion based on my experience.

I don't think LiPO will really be any better or any worse than NiMH. Racers will always mess things up for ourselves, LiPO will be no different.

Again, I'm not really against it, more indifferent than anything. I just think it's better to be more realistic than what some of the pro-LiPO crowd you generally find posts from is.

I'm feeling a bit jaded about it today after cycling my new LiPO pack last night and finding out just how "equal" these things really seem to be. I could easily just be unlucky though.

Was it Yeah or Orion?

Regarding Nickel Metal...I sold all of those packs to one person - they were all AWESOME!! I don't have a beef with the stability of my cells, I feel they came from the best matcher in the biz. I'm just more open minded now...the advent of BL has freed me!

Orion

It is Orion only where I am going to race it.

I will be playing with it some more tonight. Maybe they need to break in or something. We'll see how it goes.

Pat,

Is that your first LIPO? What kind of numbers was it showing?

I'm kind of bummed, I got an email from Joe Pillars (Team Orion) and the 3200 is being DROPPED. I have a racer who has 2 bad packs and wanted to do their exhange deal, and they don't have anymore 3200's and asked if we'd allow the 3600's. ( I said NOT for the remainder of '08)

They have a NEW 3400 coming that is supposed to replace the 3200...I don't know if enough of us can lobby them to CONTINUE the 3200 or not.

Pat,

Is that your first LIPO? What kind of numbers was it showing?

I'm kind of bummed, I got an email from Joe Pillars (Team Orion) and the 3200 is being DROPPED. I have a racer who has 2 bad packs and wanted to do their exhange deal, and they don't have anymore 3200's and asked if we'd allow the 3600's. ( I said NOT for the remainder of '08)

They have a NEW 3400 coming that is supposed to replace the 3200...I don't know if enough of us can lobby them to CONTINUE the 3200 or not.

Yeah first one. 3rd cycle in a row of 2C charging and 35 amp discharging it was 6.92, 15.5 IR, 311 RT. I then switched to Tony's method of 12A charging and 35A discharging cycles back to back to back and got 6.98V, 14.8 IR and 316 RT. I don't have a heating pad yet, but with Tony's method the pack was around 110F when discharging started. From what I've seen on the various forums it looks like I should have hoped to have seen 7.10+, ~10 IR and 335 RT. Give or take.

I'm not really one to push needing every last hundreth of a volt, but .15V and 5 IR points is a lot and will definitely show up on the track, especially the big cap tire track.

Do they need a few cycles to get broken in? Maybe it'll come up some or maybe I just got unlucky? I'll make up for it with chassis anyway :)

I think the writing was on the wall for the Orion 3200. On the bright side it sounds like there are other options for you to keep your series at 3200 mAH only. The Yeah pack looks promising, although the "you get what you pay for" problem will probably bubble up.

Jason Brett and I are going to try to get a 21.5 lipo class started up at Marshalls this season.

hope I didnt just make a mistake by buying a 3200 pack that is now going to be or is discontinued. Guess its hard to keep up with all the changes when you have to work a bazillian hours to make ends meet and have some extra for your hobby.
I too am going to lipo for the same reasons. Time and money just dont allow.
Since two incomes are needed to support a house these days, when my wife works on a saturday it lets me get to the track just before racing starts. Thats to much rushing for me. Plus it screws with your head for the first heat or two till you get calmed down.
Now gas prices........ HA .............. thats a different story. That is definately going to put a damper on it for all of us. But I will skip a whole bunch of racing just to goto Iron Maximus.
Jay what lipo are you going with??

Pat,

When I cycle my packs after they have been sitting, the voltage is usually around 6.95-6.98 at 2 minutes of 35 amp discharging on the first discharge or two. By the 3rd discharge it's upto 7.10 - 7.13 on most of my packs. I've had one come in a little higher, but only about 7.15.

I only charge at 6.4-7.0 amps (I'm usually running 3 -4 chargers off my 30 amp power supply, so I don't want to short the voltage supply.)

Joe,

It's definitely looking better tonight. Looks like they just need a bunch of cycles to break in when brand new. Note to self make sure to hit the pack hard at the track before racing.

So, guys...with 13.5 4 cell being so popular and 21.5 LiPo being so close (judging by these threads), what does everyone think about this class (21.5 "L") for this coming carpet season. I am going to give it a test whirl soon. :thumbsup:
We're gonna be offering this class next season at Turn 4. As a few racers are liking the idea of not having to play the nimh cycle game. or the concern of dead cells. It seams to be the way of racing to come.

We're gonna be offering this class next season at Turn 4. As a few racers are liking the idea of not having to play the nimh cycle game. or the concern of dead cells. It seams to be the way of racing to come.

Now they're just cycling the hell out of Lipos!!! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon14.gif

Now they're just cycling the hell out of Lipos!!! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon14.gif
I Agree! I think it's over kill. Just leave them alone. Untill one blows and some one gets hurt, They'll continue to push it.

hope I didnt just make a mistake by buying a 3200 pack that is now going to be or is discontinued. Guess its hard to keep up with all the changes when you have to work a bazillian hours to make ends meet and have some extra for your hobby.
I too am going to lipo for the same reasons. Time and money just dont allow.
Since two incomes are needed to support a house these days, when my wife works on a saturday it lets me get to the track just before racing starts. Thats to much rushing for me. Plus it screws with your head for the first heat or two till you get calmed down.
Now gas prices........ HA .............. thats a different story. That is definately going to put a damper on it for all of us. But I will skip a whole bunch of racing just to goto Iron Maximus.
Jay what lipo are you going with??

Brett,

Money and time...we never have enough :( But we always
find some for Maximus :thumbsup:

I'm going to give the Yeah packs a spin...for the dough, I can afford to light one up ;)

How many Lipo packs do you need per class...per day of racing? (or...how many times can you use a lipo pack safely and with minimal performance loss in 1 day?)

Lipo's run better each time you cycle them in a day and one is all you will need unless you want to practice more often then every 25 min.

I'm in for 21.5 LiPO @ Maximus this winter...... building a few new cars as we speak. I think it will be a VERY popular class in the NE. It would be as fast or faster than 13.5 if my sources tell me the truth :) See you this fall!!!

I am in the process of getting a Pro-3 Lipo car built from Pro-Built for 21.5, but I am definately not wasting any cash on a battery unitl there are some set rules on batteries. Hoping the BRL will set some kind of presidence for the battery limits.

So, will i have to buy a 21.5 motor, new chassis to except lipos, 2 battery chargers that will do lipos,an esc to except lipos and the lipos themselves?

You dont have too, there will still be 17.5 and 13.5 classes 4 cell I was just saying I was in for 21.5 LiPO.

Maybe depends on what gear you have to start with. I dont think you have to buy a new chassis just to run Lipo. Most of the guys ran there 4 cell cars with a lipo and they where good. You can always trade in your motor to Novak and pay the difference for the new 21.5

So, will i have to buy a 21.5 motor, new chassis to except lipos, 2 battery chargers that will do lipos,an esc to except lipos and the lipos themselves?


There is no need for two chargers, I have two Lipo packs & 1 charger, you can charge batteries faster than you can run them in your car. Last weekend I put 15-20 runs in and not once did I have to wait for the battery to be charged. Lipo's also will fit on any 4 cell slider battery tray with a little work with a Dremel & a cut-off wheel.

Hey Guys...

Thanks for the comments about attending my races.

I have been looking into the 21.5 lipo thing and had to mention this.

Racers and/or tracks need to choose to run a lipo manufacture that is readily available in the Untied States via the major hobby distributors.

Supporting a company like Yeah Racing would be a bad decision in my opinion considering Yeah Racing doesn't offer a US distributor.

So warranty and local hobby shop availability would be a major issue.

If I am incorrect about Yeah Racing having US availability with sensible retail margins please feel free to inform me.

Maximus

Pat, sent you a PM.

The Yeah racing packs are not ROAR approved, which means we don't know if they have the same safety margins to protect against accidental over charge or over discharge.

How about the SMC 5000 packs? I'm getting one tomorrow. Hopefully it'll be allowed wherever I decide to race. I'm running it in my T4 for the ROAR offroad regional near me, but I'd definitely like to put it to use this fall on carpet.

Matt

orion will be discontinueing the 3200 b/c they are offering a 3400 pack. reedy i'm assuming will do the same and tekin has a 3400 pack available also.

Several posters above have commented on the necessity of purchasing a new 21.5 motor. If you have an old Novak, sintered motor you are no longer using (even if non-operational) you can send it in and exchange it for a 21.5 (w/new 120 day warr) for $35.00 (replacement charge) plus $10.00 (fee to select different wind).

One reason we originally offered this program was because we realized that quite a few customers purchased motors that were too hot, or too slow, for their racing requirements.

I think i should also point out that the south is way ahead of the north on the 21.5 lipo deal so if you have questions please ask. Also you dont have to build a new car or buy a new chassis just tape the darn thing in and head out on the track. We do it every week. Yes a few racers myself included prefer the 6 cell chassis but many of the pro 3 racers with 4 cell chassis have made a few very minor modifications to make the battery sit in the chassis...works great.

There are several 3200's out from companies right now besides Orion. I think to keep the class 'what it is now', limit the MAH. Otherwise it changes everything. We have to slow down (and not just speed).

Heath...good points about Yeah Racing. I never intended to get these for competition - just to 'beat' on. I'm sure many things will change before we hit the rugs in the Fall.

'Everyone'...thanks for the info and keep it coming. It's good to hear from the guys that have already been testing the waters and even better to see some interest from our core group up here. :thumbsup:

Question for the pioneers (or Novak)...can a 4 cell SS GTB be made 7.4V LiPo ready by simply installing a heat sink and fan? And, does it have the LiPo cutoff feature? This would save people some cash??

Question for the pioneers (or Novak)...can a 4 cell SS GTB be made 7.4V LiPo ready by simply installing a heat sink and fan? And, does it have the LiPo cutoff feature? This would save people some cash??
Not "LiPo Ready" in that the 4-cell models don't have the cutoff.

I just happened to call yesterday and ask about using a 4-cell model on 6-cells with one of Novak's hot motors (I asked about a 4.5) and they said if you add the heatsink and fan it is fine. Specifically, the guy said "it is the same hardware" as the 6-cell models. The profiles are a little different, and no LiPos cutoff.

Ahhh, yes....I just saw that on Novak's ESC chart. But it looks like all the major specs are the same so I could just use their 2 cell "smart stop" LiPo cutoff module - cool. Or, just be very careful and not use anything :rolleyes:

Or, just be very careful and not use anything :rolleyes:

Which is what most people do.

the south is way ahead of the north

That's a first! :p

Good one Pat!!! HeHeHeHeHe! http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon10.gif

i know its a terrible thing to admit but i am a yankee....maybe they just needed my help...yeah thats it....i'll keep thinking that

So what Mah rating is everyone using? Sounds like the orion 3200 is out, so is everyone moving to the 3400, 4000 or 5000? I was thinking of trying lipo on the concrete at Trax70 (410ft run line). Should be fast. I would just like to get an idea what the tracks in the NE will be using for a standard pack so that I don't go buying 6 lipo batteries at $90 a pop to run at the different tracks I visit.

Thanks,
Chuck

So what Mah rating is everyone using? Sounds like the orion 3200 is out, so is everyone moving to the 3400, 4000 or 5000? I was thinking of trying lipo on the concrete at Trax70 (410ft run line). Should be fast. I would just like to get an idea what the tracks in the NE will be using for a standard pack so that I don't go buying 6 lipo batteries at $90 a pop to run at the different tracks I visit.

Thanks,
Chuck
Ditto - I don't want to buy multiple packs that I can only run at one track or only one time.

Doug P

doug what are we racing this fall???????

Ditto - I don't want to buy multiple packs that I can only run at one track or only one time.

Doug P
I would suggest that the NE carpet people standardize on a battery rating for the season.

Chuck

Good point chuck, but their needs to be a set rule on batteries cause if we run 3200's and they run 3600s at the birds then your buying a battery for one race.

and hopefully they WON'T do 3600's at the BIRDS because they are going, going, gone too.

The 3200 is being replaced with a 3400, and the 3600 is being replaced with 3800 from what I understand. Should be very little difference in the 3200s and 3400s, but the 3600's are heavier (Weight added for touring cars)

Good point chuck, but their needs to be a set rule on batteries cause if we run 3200's and they run 3600s at the birds then your buying a battery for one race.
Anyone know what the 'birds are going with this year?

Chuck