I'm curious what we'll ask for if Moebius can give us a new TOS Jupiter II in size. I personally think an 18 inch is best. Big enough for details and small enough to display on an average bookshelf.

What do you guys think?

18 inches is plenty big enough for me. I'm perfectly happy with the PL model but if Frank would decide to produce one a little more accurate and a little larger than the PL kit I would buy one.

12" has been done. 16" has been done, but that interior was not for novice modellers. 24" is great, but far too large for most tabletops. To paraphrase Goldilocks, 18" is "just right".

I voted for the 24. I have a lunar 24 that leaves a lot to be desired so yes I want another one to replace this one. I also have a lunar 16.5 inch which is nice and a PL 12 inch which is just too small, so I say a 24 inch is best.

Ron Gross figured the full-size Jupiter 2 is 60'. Starting from that:

-1/24 is 30" in diameter,
-1/30 is 24"
-1/32 is 22.5"
-1/35 is 20.57"
-1/40 is 18"
-1/43.6363 is 16.5"
-1/45 is 16"
-1/48 is 15"
-1/60 is 12"

Based on that, I would prefer 15", 22.5", or 30".

1/35 would be the only logical choice here being that there is so much stuff in this scale that would make the kit easier to super detail. from a builder perspective and a manufactures also.

What scale are the upcoming chariot and space pod?

1/24 scale. Visit
http://www.moebiusmodels.com/
Before you say it, IMHO 30" in diameter is too big. 1/35 scale looks very nice at a manageable 20" diameter.

I don't know where Ron Gross would have gotten those #s from. The full scale set, exterior connected to the interior, that we saw on every episode, would have made a saucer 48 feet in diameter. If the Jupiter 2 was 60 feet in diameter, and the upper deck was still centered inside it, then the viewports would have 6 more feet of sill, the main hatch would be 6 feet deeper, etc. The only thing you have to do to get the entire upper deck into the J2 is make the saucer a little deeper, not wider. If anyone is looking for a scale model of the Jupiter 2 in which an accurate scale upper deck fits into an accurate scale exterior, then the ship has to be 48'.

I think Frank and others have stated a 24" diameter would be too difficult/expensive to produce..I agree. I don't see anything larger than 18" happening or even in the realm of possibility- Frank, Dave- comments?
Gary

But if was in gores, like PL's brilliant C57?...

I voted for Big Mac size....

LOL! Can we get it biggie sized?

You can super size my order too!

I don't know where Ron Gross would have gotten those #s from...
Gross used the height of hatchways to reconcile the hero hull to the interior/exterior set. You can read about it on CultTVMan's site:

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Features/Articles/tabid/74/PageID/33/ArticleID/15/articleType/ArticleView/Default.aspx

More important to me than overall size is scale... I would hate to have a model made by size, so that in the end it works out to say, 1/63.9 scale. That would be totally worthless aside from having a model in a set size. Make it a real mainstream model scale like 1/32, 1/35, 1/24, etc. You even find toys in those scales nowdays.

So a 48' saucer at 1/35 scale would be 16.45". Sounds just right to me.

That would work for me too. I used my options as "rough" measurements. I didn't think about scales.

I don't understand that, what Ron Gross did, because I managed to fit a 1/24 interior built according to the pilot episode blueprints, only modifying the floor into a single level and changing the angle of the control panels to match the profile from a 2nd season blueprint into upper into a 24" hull. There isn't a massive window sill or any outside anomaly that I can think of, except the upper hull has to be a little taller in order to incorporate the straight walls at the back of the upper deck. And even as such, it seems to match virtually identically the photos of the Icons 4 footer profile that appeared a few years later. A not so good picture (all I can find so far???) when I lit it for the first time: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2404663#post2404663

I don't understand that, what Ron Gross did, because I managed to fit a 1/24 interior built according to the pilot episode blueprints, only modifying the floor into a single level and changing the angle of the control panels to match the profile from a 2nd season blueprint into upper into a 24" hull. There isn't a massive window sill or any outside anomaly that I can think of, except the upper hull has to be a little taller in order to incorporate the straight walls at the back of the upper deck. And even as such, it seems to match virtually identically the photos of the Icons 4 footer profile that appeared a few years later. A not so good picture (all I can find so far???) when I lit it for the first time: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2404663#post2404663
That's a fine accomplishment, and the main thing is that you're happy with your reconciliation. :thumbsup:

For me, the most important thing is a model with the hull lines of certain of the special effects miniatures, such as the hero.

So a 48' saucer at 1/35 scale would be 16.45". Sounds just right to me.

Do you want a model of the straight-sided interior/exterior set, or the full scale mockup?

I would go for a 1/35 scale model of the J2. Just the flight deck interior with the robot, space pod, chariot and landing gear and I think it would be a great kit! I would like the hull contours to match the large shooting miniature.

I think 1/24th is the way to go since they've already got the pod and chariot model kits coming out in that scale.

For me, the most important thing is a model with the hull lines of certain of the special effects miniatures, such as the hero.[/QUOTE]

Me, too. I used every photo I could get my hands on when I was making the plug. So I was really pleased when it came so close (as to be indistinguishable at least in photos) from the Icons J2, which was supposed to be an exact copy of one of the 4 footers.
My big worry is that while the 4 foot Jupiter 2 has been completely measured and contoured by various owners and limited kit manufacturers, they're keeping all their information to themselves. The 18 foot Seaview and the 8 footer's nose have been thoroughly measured and contoured, and none of that has ever been shared by anyone, which is why the Moebius Seaview has such obvious shape problems. Who's to say Moebius will be able to get any info for an "accurate" Jupiter 2. And then there's the question of which hero. There were several different sizes and shapes of Seaview, and there was the series 4' Jupiter 2 we all love, but was the 12' miniature just a Gemini 12 or was it too converted to a Jupiter 2 for on-screen use?

Since "we all love" the 4' hero miniature, that answers the question as to which exterior hull to make.
Then add an accurate 2nd/3rd season flight deck (which can easily be modified into a 1st season version), and voila'! A nice Jupiter 2 to occupy the center of living room coffee tables throughout the modelling world.

The Jupiter 2 should look like the landing 4 ft. hero, WITH the details of the smaller Jupiter 2's such as hatch & portholes, etc. The 4 foot landing hero was shot from the front to show the simulated people standing inside it with the scrimm lit from behind to give the impression of an interior. Irwin Allen must have fiqured that viewers KNOW there is a hatch that really cannot be seen on the landing hero because of the angle it was filmed BUT it is suppossed to BE there ! so it IS there. I want a good, decent size Jupiter 2 after waiting more than 40 years and accepting Lunar Models larger versions along with their material defects and PL was great and accurate as far as I see BUT, too small & with an unwanted top seam that is necessary to view the detailed interior by removing the top. This is the reason I want a Larger Jupiter 2, To be able to see a detailed upper deck through the front viewport and maybe even through the porthole beside the main hatch ! size will make the difference. If anyone can make a GREAT jupiter 2 that "should " make EVERYONE happy, it needs to be done by Frank at MOEBIUS MODELS ! Just take a look at his seaview, Now imagine, a Jupiter 2 with the size increase& detail, quality, that the seaview was from previouse offerings !

...My big worry is that while the 4 foot Jupiter 2 has been completely measured and contoured by various owners and limited kit manufacturers, they're keeping all their information to themselves...Who's to say Moebius will be able to get any info for an "accurate" Jupiter 2. And then there's the question of which hero...there was the series 4' Jupiter 2 we all love, but was the 12' miniature just a Gemini 12 or was it too converted to a Jupiter 2 for on-screen use?

May be of interest:

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Models/ModelingLostinSpace/RonGrosssJupiter2Profiles/tabid/413/AlbumID/424-212/Default.aspx

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/JohnnyrumsRecPages/arongrossarticle.html

Y3a graciously sent me angular measurements of his four-footer's lower hull; I'll try to find the drawing. It shows the hero hull as a bit shallower than Ron's version.

The 10'(or12') miniature footage was never seen- either in the un-aired pilot, or the series.

Actually, I have offered to allow Moebius and company to measure and inspect my hull for the project. I'm pushing for a far better landing gear system than has EVER been offered on a Jupiter 2 kit before. I'll lobby for an accurate rendition in whatever scale they decide on. I don't want anything for doing this except to watch the process to completion.



Here is that angles drawing. Its been so long I don't rememer what it represents...

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/thumbs/J2angles.jpg (http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/29039)

Do you want a model of the straight-sided interior/exterior set, or the full scale mockup?

I just want a model of the damn Jupiter 2!
It should look like it did flying in space on the outside, and have an interior.

GOD, you people are worse than Trekkies!

John P, then why not just pick up the polar lights one? its not like a styrene kit doesn't exist at all.

I've got the PL J2, and unless a Moebius one really brought something new to the table, in size, or with a crew and robot, chariot, pod, whatever, I'm not sure I'd spring for another one. if I recall the old playing mantis diecast robot, chariot and pod were pretty close in scale as well to the J2 model they put out.

I have a love for the ships n show, but not sure how many of the same model I really want/need.

I DID preorder the new Moebius Pod n chariot (even though the fooking control panels weren't cast in clear for easy blacklighting.. GRRRRRRRR!!!!), and I'd spring for a seaview priced J2, but ONLY if it was significantly larger then the PL one, and came with more goodies. I don't really need a lower deck interior, just a complete upper deck, figures, robot, and whatever else they could think of to toss in there to increase the value of it to me.

John, didn't you notice that the flying model had that special interior? YOU saw it close up in the episode "The Derelict" when, as they blasted the aliens, blasted a hole to make the doors open (what? no AIR???) and lifted off, rotated around so you could see the passengers inside and headed for the exit.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/thumbs/dere5.jpeg (http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/8169)

YOU want a KLUDGE. Polar Lights and Lunar Models made them. You have 3 choices: 12", 16" and 24" diameter.

THIS ONE IS FLYING TOO! Would you like this version of the flying J2?

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/thumbs/12398_58369_98.jpg (http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/7453)

"It's only a model..."

...Here is that angles drawing. Its been so long I don't rememer what it represents...

My finished drawings are on the RPF, but I can't remember my logins, let alone find them! I do have them, though; just need to double check them.

:)I think what ever Moebius Models comes out with It will be a outstanding! They have my support in any direction!

Thanks!!!
Randy Neubert
VoodooFX
650-568-3400

...(The Jupiter 2 model) should look like it did flying in space on the outside, and have an interior...
John,

The reason I asked, is because you said "So a 48' saucer at 1/35 scale would be 16.45"." That only works, with the straight-sided hull.

To give you what you want: "look like it did flying in space on the outside, and have an interior", you have to figure based on a 60' hull. So, if you want 1/35, it'll be 20.57". If you want 16.5", it'll be 1/43.6363.

Polar Lights, Fox drawing, and actual four-footer lower hull profiles. Based on Ron Gross's Fox studio drawings:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2152/2113711978_0a0eb3004a.jpg?v=0

...This is the Model I want.....:thumbsup:

...This is the Model I want.....:thumbsup:

Me too. But not with red ground coloring.

Thats the GEMINI 12!!!! No lower winder, or geer. Less detailed fusion kore too.

Ok, you guys are geekin out.. LOL!

Thats the GEMINI 12!!!!...
I was talking about the launch pad and gantries. And BTW, the gantry towers should be red.

:rolleyes:

"Geeking out" is such an inadequate phrase for this thread.

C'mon JohnP...We learned this behavior from the Trekkies! LOL

I think a lot of confusion about the size of the Jupiter 2 is coming from a misconception about the size of the interior. The straight sided exterior J2 set from the pilot and first season was in fact only 20 feet in radius. (You can't say diameter because the set was only a partial set; the top of the back control room walls wouldn't quite fit - that's why a 1/24 scale model has to be expanded to about 24").
This is from a blueprint of the Gemini 12 interior. The only real change from this plan and the first season Jupiter 2 was with the addition of the robot, so the floor could no longer be stepped as it was in the pilot. So the control panels and wall/ceiling beams, etc gained a 4" toe at the bottoms. The second season Jupiter 2 interior/exterior was redesigned with more steeply angled main control panels, higher window sills, and a new top of the set above the "ceiling". But the set stayed the same size - the circuitry panels and freezing tube walls etc all didn't expand in width.
So as you can see, a 1/24 interior can fit into a 24" (48') exterior handily. But a 1/24 interior would be too small to interface with a 60' exterior properly, or as we saw it interface on the show. However, if you keep the Exact Shape of the filming miniatures, or as close as you can determine, and scale that shape to 48' (24") diameter, it all works perfectly.
As for a 60' diameter Jupiter 2, I still have no idea where Ron Gross or anybody else came up with that figure. There is a blueprint of the changes made to convert the G12 exterior to the J2 exterior reproduced in the once widely-available LIS Technical Manual. A quick and dirty measurement based on the sizes stated in the blueprint of a 4' high window and a 7.5' radius flashing light ring from the blueprint shows both G12 and J2 miniatures to have an imagined outside diameter of approx. 49'. Of course, what's drawn on a blueprint isn't always exactly what ends up being built. There were differences in shapes between the blueprints of the Seaviews and the finished miniatures (indeed, there are quite noticeable differences between the shapes of the 17 and 8 foot Seaview miniatures) and the shape of the upper hull of the J2 miniature is subtly different from the blueprint shape, but we're talking subtle changes, not a wholesale revision on the model makers part.
To fit an upper deck that was designed for a 20' R spaceship into a 30' R spaceship and make the hatches and viewports etc bridge what is supposed to be only a 5' R gap between the two just won't work. It's Tardis in reverse.
Edit: Attempted to include ruler as the plan is 1/2" = 1'.

And Starseeker is Starseeker2 now, as it was the only thging I could think of doing in order to post more attachments, such as this. For anyone who doesn't have the LIS Technical Manual, this is that exterior blueprint. (Funny, Starseeker2 doesn't spell any better than the other guy. Sigh.)
Edit: Oh, man, sorry about the crappy quality. But other than the 7'6" R flashing light unit, the only words worth reading (and almost the only ones that I can read even in the book) are that this is for a minimum 10' diameter miniature. Which must be the 12"er talked about on another LIS site, the writer having encountered it in person.
Another edit: If Ron Gross had access to this blueprint, which was probably drawn to a certain scale (copy too indistinct to read), he might have assumed that the big J2 miniature was built to that scale. The plan says "10' Minimum", the model builders obviously left to do what they wanted. The writer of the LIS site (if I remember correctly) said that he was climbing on an approx 12' J2 miniature. That 20% increase in scale is almost exactly the error in size between a 48 and 60 foot J2. Bet that's where the error originated, that the 12' was to a certain scale, rather than just to a certain shape.

The 60 foot diameter was derived from the scale/height of the figures in the Hero.

...As for a 60' diameter Jupiter 2, I still have no idea where Ron Gross or anybody else came up with that figure...
Please read the links on messages #15 and #27.

Hello Starseeker 1 &... 2.....:rolleyes:

I like your argumentation and conclusions...... I checked my LIS books and pictures and I also arrive at the conclusion that a 24'' Jupiter 2 could very well conciliate a 1/24 interior first floor. As for the second floor, the Space Pod and Chariot....... The Jupiter 2 being a Tardis, we can always ''imagine'' it fit's in.... but..... it doesn't
The PL Jupiter 2 has always bugged me, the first floor being too spacious compared to the tv set and there is no place in the shape of that ship to have two levels....

Gaétan

:rolleyes:

"Geeking out" is such an inadequate phrase for this thread.
Wow, I actually care enough and know enough to be a Jupiter 2 Geek? I'm honored. :)

I think a lot of confusion about the size of the Jupiter 2 is coming from a misconception about the size of the interior. The straight sided exterior J2 set from the pilot and first season was in fact only 20 feet in radius. (You can't say diameter because the set was only a partial set; the top of the back control room walls wouldn't quite fit - that's why a 1/24 scale model has to be expanded to about 24").
This is from a blueprint of the Gemini 12 interior. The only real change from this plan and the first season Jupiter 2 was with the addition of the robot, so the floor could no longer be stepped as it was in the pilot. So the control panels and wall/ceiling beams, etc gained a 4" toe at the bottoms. The second season Jupiter 2 interior/exterior was redesigned with more steeply angled main control panels, higher window sills, and a new top of the set above the "ceiling". But the set stayed the same size - the circuitry panels and freezing tube walls etc all didn't expand in width.
.
No. Even if Fox didn't get around to revising the flight deck plans until later, the Jupiter 2 ALWAYS had an airlock, the addition of which increased the interior/exterior set diameter to 48'.