With the speeds almost the same, and Roar having already approved 17.5s being raced in road and off-road, will 10.5 go away? Hard to have two classes the same speed (as it splits the drivers). What are some thoughts?

I'm gonna run them together until one dies. The weight will have to be the same though no matter what you are running.

yes.....

We ran them together until the 10.5/4 cell died. We have 3 drivers who have battery sponsors who stayed with the 4 cell, but at least one of them has switched to LIPO because that sponsor is working on their own LIPO pack.

For our races we've stayed with ORION ONLY for 2008. The future will be decided on by who makes what.

The 3200 ORION is plenty power, plenty run time and works very well. We did test some bigger batteries, including the 2s2p style - and they outperform the 2 cell packs quite severely in the speed department.

I'm hoping to see more info from tracks that have stayed with the 3200 2 cell size limit, but have allowed other brands. I'm curious how the 3200 LRP/REEDY/ASSOCIATED, the 3200 Trakpower, even the YEAH RACING 3200 all stack up.

We will allow the 3200 and 3600 carbon packs for this year

Maybe,but battery limit needs to be bumped to 5400.
Out west,up north ,we have 3 oval classes,17.4 4 cell,21.5 lipo,10.5 4 cell..

There is no 10.5 class in ROAR for Off-road or On-Road next year. Stock will be 17.5 only, Super Stock will be 13.5 and then open mod. They have also insituted the win stock and your moved up for 3 years rule as well. Must run super stock or Mod.

EA

according to dawn the 10.5 class will be a roar oval class in 2009.....but they seem to change their minds every day!

Maybe,but battery limit needs to be bumped to 5400.

..not down here. I'm actually looking at the new ORION 2400 pack for the 21.5 class...

RCThunder, to answer your question.......without a doubt!

And I think it will be a 5400 battery allowed also.

It depends. If people are smart enough to only legalize new batteries once per year then yes. If a new $130 pack is required every couple months then it will be dead before it starts.

From what I hear the battery companies are already all positioned to start the incremental upgrade game.

..not down here. I'm actually looking at the new ORION 2400 pack for the 21.5 class...


Why? If you keep both classes on the same battery, then theres less to buy if they decide to move up.

..not down here. I'm actually looking at the new ORION 2400 pack for the 21.5 class...

Why Joe?

Because we still have people who want the lower class slowed down. I haven't got my hands on this new battery yet, but I plan to get a couple to do some testing with and see if it does anything to cause a way to slow em down a bit more.

21.5/LIPO at HOTRODS is running what Erik Steenhoven ran in EXPERT 19t/4 cell (according to Erik himself) just a couple years ago, and most others couldn't handle that speed. The goal of that class was to replace 4cell STOCK racing with something similar in brushless...

I know of a couple other ways to do it - but they are not a direction I want to go...

THESE new 2400's I'm doubting will slow them either - (But on a positive, they will list for about 1/2 the price of the 3200's)

It depends. If people are smart enough to only legalize new batteries once per year then yes. If a new $130 pack is required every couple months then it will be dead before it starts.

From what I hear the battery companies are already all positioned to start the incremental upgrade game.

I agree and hope Roar does a once a year battery deal but nothing is stopping lipo not even a battery war or battery of the week!

The answer is yes it will and it has already begun to replace 10.5/4cell.

I hear ya joe,thats why we still have 17.5 4 cell,yep my 21.5 lipo car is faster than 19t was last year,and it's only 3 laps slower than my 10.5 4 cell car on any track we've raced on this year so far...
But unlike your core of oval guy's we need to keep the 17.5 4 cell just because of the speed.
The 2400 isn't going to slow the 21.5 down for you guy's down there,it is a great pack for the money,and 21.5 only uses 1500 mah on a run

I would love to be able to do a 4 cell/ 17.5 deal but virtually NOBODY down here ever wants to buy another NIMH battery (Myself included)

I probably WILL pick up one or two 4600's though, because I also love the SPEC Nastruck class that is run at Racer's Havens local show....and I've been able to get the last couple 3700 and 3800's to work - but barely (ALL my 4200's went to JUNK last August/Sept.)

Why? If you keep both classes on the same battery, then theres less to buy if they decide to move up.


I don't figure we'll be staying with the 3200 much beyond mid 2009, because I have a feeling it's going to disappear. (I'm hoping we can stay with it the whole season) but since we are only using 1500-1600 mah in 21.5, we could use a 2400 with no problem, and it should sell for about 1/2 the cost of the 3200, and less than 1/2 of the NEW 3800 cell that's most likely going to replace it.

I really don't think we'll go this direction, but it is something I want to test.

Personally, I like everything about the 3200 - and hope we can make it stay around another couple years...but the way things change/progress, etc. in oval - that would be a miracle.

I think 10.5 will be dead by the time carpet season starts again. My opinion...
21.5 and 3200 packs
17.5 and Unlimited MAH (But set a rule in Aug every year on a mAh cap for the season)
13.5 .... Hang the &^%$ on...That will be the new Big Boy class. Oh yeah unlimited Lipo size. Basically open mod.

If there needs to be a slower class than 21.5 lipo maybe we can figure out a way to limit the cars. Gearing doesn't work (unless its a rollout rule and thats a tech nightmare!). Maybe a 23.5 motor?

Once the lipo conversion happens I hope we can get down to 3 or 4 classes again. As stated before:
23.5 lipo
21.5 lipo
17.5 lipo
13.5 lipo/open mod/ holy #$%^ those will be fast.

Just my 2 cents.
Joel White

Joel,

We tested a 25.5 motor, but from what I've been told from NOVAK it's very time consuming and difficult to put more wire on than what's on the 21.5

4 cell / 17.5 was a perfect speed - but how do we do it with the common LIPO I have no idea..YET!

I hope that Novak does not wrap anything that is only a slight amount slower than a 21.5 and the reason I say that is; it will only open up the cheating game too much. I know what happend when the 21 turn brushed motor came out..........seems those arms found there way into a lot of 27 turn cans! LOL

I will agree though that we may need a slower class (Although most of us started in 6 cell Stock!). But I also feel that we shouldn't try to "over protect" the beginner because we may "protect him to death".

But if a slower class is required, maybe 21.5 with Street Spec Batteries? Unless they too go away.

21.5 with Street Spec Batteries? Unless they too go away.


I actually thought about the 17.5 w/ the 4 cell street spec batts.

spec batteries are a joke! i know guys that bought 20 or so just to get a few good ones..and they sold off the rest..to buy more..

pro mod should be 10.5 lipo,almost as fast as 4 cell promod.and soooooooo much easier to make time

spec batteries are a joke! i know guys that bought 20 or so just to get a few good ones..and they sold off the rest..to buy more..



that's why OVAL RACING suffers, because we have to deal with that mentality.

that's why OVAL RACING suffers, because we have to deal with that mentality.

oval racing suffers because of that..Easley had one of the biggest spec classes in the country..spec truck..but it died because of the battery issue..it also suffers from too much change!

I don't see how 4 cell will survive. I have been anti-lipo till I tried it at Easley last week for the first time. I will never buy another NiMH pack again. Absolutely no reason to run anything but lipo. Greg Honeycutt and I tested lipo 21.5 at our local carpet track today. We both were in agreement that lipo is the way to go. There does need to be a slower class than lipo 21.5 however.

With the slower class I think we really need to be careful though. In the past we have tired different cars, or batts or motors etc. We really need something that will not make it expensive for the racer to move up from novice to 21.5. I dont have a way to do it, but make it easy for someone to move from class to class. Make it cheap.

I think, (that's trouble right there!!!) we are missing the other half of the equation, the established racer. Nickle has went from 5,000 dollars a metric ton (or what ever) to 50,000 dollars. The charging time for a 4 cell-compared to the longevity of the lipo run time, which turns into longer times to run 3 heats and a main. The mulitute of classes. If 3 guys show up with a 3 wheel chassis,24 AA battery pack, it's a class!.

Electronics technology has developed much quicker than batteries. There is little doubt that lipo is the way to advance this sport. But let the established "pro" - "sponsored" racers go that route.

Why can we not come up with a brushed motor to run with a 3200 Orion lipo for a begginer class?

We introduce "newbies" to carpet with the inexpensive Losi Slider and Late models till they learn (taught) the basics of a pan car.

I'll quit thinking now, It's starting to hurt!!
Kid

We've ran 21.5/LiPo here in Michigan for the last few months of the carpet season. They are so close to 13.5/4 cell that they could be run together.
We are going to either have to run one big class in which both combinations run together, or, do something to slow one of them down.

For the guys that run the LIPO is there any truth to the LIPO burning up the Bl motors faster than the 4 cell?

I hope to put togeather a 21.5 lipo car this summer to run in our summer carpet series.

Jake

Many years ago we used to run a 5-degree 6-cell stk 100 lap enduro on a banked asphalt track. We were using 2000 mah packs back then and caps. It was a blast and we actually had a great mix of winners because you really had to gear it right or dump at the end. Made for some real exciting racing. I don't think those motors exist anymore, but some type of underperforming stock motor must still exist. If you had a lipo cuttoff you could still put together some type of sane speed racing that would be fun with the advantage of the new batteries and the use of old school or new speedo's.:thumbsup:

For the guys that run the LIPO is there any truth to the LIPO burning up the Bl motors faster than the 4 cell?

I hope to put togeather a 21.5 lipo car this summer to run in our summer carpet series.

Jake

I have not heard of any motors burning up or wearing out because of LiPo's.

For the guys that run the LIPO is there any truth to the LIPO burning up the Bl motors faster than the 4 cell?

I hope to put togeather a 21.5 lipo car this summer to run in our summer carpet series.

Jake

I,ve been running the same Novak 21.5 and Carbon extreme 3200 lipo pack now since September 2007 probaly close to 20-25 racedays including the Daytona Speedway Spectacular, Stills runs great!

Why can we not come up with a brushed motor to run with a 3200 Orion lipo for a begginer class?
Kid

To answer this question, I don't think that's an option, considering a stock brushed motor is the equivalent of a 17.5, so by running a 21.5/3200 Lipo combo, you are already running a motor that is a good 3 laps SLOWER than a stock brushed motor. At this point, you won't see any motor mfg develop any sort of SPEC brushed motor, your only hope is for slower/higher turn B/L motors to be made(25-35turns). IMO, this is the big drawback of Lipo, because the voltage is so high(like 6-cell used to be), and batt's will only get better in the very near future, we're unable to provide a slower/entry level class with Lipos. (unless we figure out a way to run 1cell lipo)

As far as Lipo's completely replacing Nimh, it will take longer than most think. Although the south, and California are very heavy into Lipo oval, in the upper midwest(the heart of BRL country LOL), Lipo is pretty limited, and the main interest is in the 21.5/Lipo level, not from the 10.5/faster classes/racers. Although I'm sure you will see Sonny offer A Lipo class in the BRL this year, I think he is a long way away from making it MOSTLY Lipo. That will keep many BRL supporters in this part of the country on Nimh for a while. And with the recent consistency and increased reliability of the Ener-G cells, that may make things go even longer. It may even last until the A123 cell or whatever battery in the industry is next beyond Lipos! LOL

To answer this question, I don't think that's an option, considering a stock brushed motor is the equivalent of a 17.5, so by running a 21.5/3200 Lipo combo, you are already running a motor that is a good 3 laps SLOWER than a stock brushed motor. At this point, you won't see any motor mfg develop any sort of SPEC brushed motor, your only hope is for slower/higher turn B/L motors to be made(25-35turns). IMO, this is the big drawback of Lipo, because the voltage is so high(like 6-cell used to be), and batt's will only get better in the very near future, we're unable to provide a slower/entry level class with Lipos. (unless we figure out a way to run 1cell lipo)

As far as Lipo's completely replacing Nimh, it will take longer than most think. Although the south, and California are very heavy into Lipo oval, in the upper midwest(the heart of BRL country LOL), Lipo is pretty limited, and the main interest is in the 21.5/Lipo level, not from the 10.5/faster classes/racers. Although I'm sure you will see Sonny offer A Lipo class in the BRL this year, I think he is a long way away from making it MOSTLY Lipo. That will keep many BRL supporters in this part of the country on Nimh for a while. And with the recent consistency and increased reliability of the Ener-G cells, that may make things go even longer. It may even last until the A123 cell or whatever battery in the industry is next beyond Lipos! LOL

Yup, Uh-huh, I think you nailed it!

not all the guys down south are on the lipo train.

KatF1sh ,, Looks like you had a good run at Stricklands Congrats..

Why can we not come up with a brushed motor to run with a 3200 Orion lipo for a begginer class?
Kid

You want a cheap form of racing - with a brushed motor and lipo for NOOB's...consider the old 'sealed can' Mabuchi type motors. The motors are super cheap, don't really ever wear out (And while YES some guys can RUN them and make them have performance advantages...that's going to be an ISSUE everywhere with everything that ANYBODY tries to offer up.)

spec batteries are a joke! i know guys that bought 20 or so just to get a few good ones..and they sold off the rest..to buy more..

I believe I know who you are talking about and he use to run at TRD

To answer this question, I don't think that's an option, considering a stock brushed motor is the equivalent of a 17.5, so by running a 21.5/3200 Lipo combo, you are already running a motor that is a good 3 laps SLOWER than a stock brushed motor. At this point, you won't see any motor mfg develop any sort of SPEC brushed motor, your only hope is for slower/higher turn B/L motors to be made(25-35turns). IMO, this is the big drawback of Lipo, because the voltage is so high(like 6-cell used to be), and batt's will only get better in the very near future, we're unable to provide a slower/entry level class with Lipos. (unless we figure out a way to run 1cell lipo)

As far as Lipo's completely replacing Nimh, it will take longer than most think. Although the south, and California are very heavy into Lipo oval, in the upper midwest(the heart of BRL country LOL), Lipo is pretty limited, and the main interest is in the 21.5/Lipo level, not from the 10.5/faster classes/racers. Although I'm sure you will see Sonny offer A Lipo class in the BRL this year, I think he is a long way away from making it MOSTLY Lipo. That will keep many BRL supporters in this part of the country on Nimh for a while. And with the recent consistency and increased reliability of the Ener-G cells, that may make things go even longer. It may even last until the A123 cell or whatever battery in the industry is next beyond Lipos! LOL

'Dang Kevin, ... I'm not sure if it's because you've been away of the racing scene for long enough or simply because you've just had your pills but you really hit the nail there lol

:wave:

Steve.

a stock brushed motor is the equivalent of a 17.5, so by running a 21.5/3200 Lipo combo, you are already running a motor that is a good 3 laps SLOWER than a stock brushed motor.

Wow , don't know WHERE you have tried 21.5/3200 Lipo...or WTH you have for a STOCK motor but out here...21.5 / Lipo w/ 3200 Orions is WAY faster than Stock..and actually faster on most of the short tracks than the average guy was w/ 19t/4cell (and pushing the Expert 19t times)

The 17.5/STOCK comparison is true w/ 4 cell. Put a LIPO in 17.5 and HOLD ON - it's as fast as any 'limited modifed class' would be.

Now the 21.5 on a 4 cell - that would be a fun SPEC class or Novice class setup.

The OVAL world could be set right now with 2 Brushless Motors and 2 types of battery.

4 cell 21.5 NOVICE
4 cell 17.5 STOCK
LIPO 21.5 ADVANCED
LIPO 17.5 EXPERT

Anything MORE - SUPERFAST!

Wow , don't know WHERE you have tried 21.5/3200 Lipo...or WTH you have for a STOCK motor but out here...21.5 / Lipo w/ 3200 Orions is WAY faster than Stock..and actually faster on most of the short tracks than the average guy was w/ 19t/4cell (and pushing the Expert 19t times)

The 17.5/STOCK comparison is true w/ 4 cell. Put a LIPO in 17.5 and HOLD ON - it's as fast as any 'limited modifed class' would be.

Now the 21.5 on a 4 cell - that would be a fun SPEC class or Novice class setup.

The OVAL world could be set right now with 2 Brushless Motors and 2 types of battery.

4 cell 21.5 NOVICE
4 cell 17.5 STOCK
LIPO 21.5 ADVANCED
LIPO 17.5 EXPERT

Anything MORE - SUPERFAST!

I agree 100% Joe

My car with 21.5 lipo is faster than it was (lap times) with 8 turn/4 cell on flat tracks. On the velodrome it's probablly more like a ten wind and four cell.

Wow , don't know WHERE you have tried 21.5/3200 Lipo...or WTH you have for a STOCK motor but out here...21.5 / Lipo w/ 3200 Orions is WAY faster than Stock..and actually faster on most of the short tracks than the average guy was w/ 19t/4cell (and pushing the Expert 19t times)


I was comparing what a stock motor/Lipo combo would do. Since a 4cell/27turn stock and 4cell/17.5 are the same speed, I assumed a Lipo/27 turn stock and Lipo/17.5 would be the same speed? So, by running a 21.5/Lipo they are already slower than they would be with a 27turn stock/Lipo setup..that was my point, as the original poster was wanting a brushed motor/Lipo combo that would be slower than what is available in brushless.

thanks wade! not to toot my own horn but...i have taken 3 of the 6 races this year held there! i'm on fire! like a shody lipo pack over charged!!! he he

pro mod should be 10.5 lipo,almost as fast as 4 cell promod.and soooooooo much easier to make time

It's kinda funny - and I'm guessing in part it's due to the size of the So-Cal tracks now...but NOBODY wants to go THAT FAST.

17.5/LIPO is running so fast - (Gary Hamilton w/ the NEW Gen3 at the HAVEN Sat. Night went 77 laps, for a NEW Record) Average lap time - 3.8's, and Steenhoven was just as fast...and a couple others weren't far behind.

time for the COT bodies lmao.