...ok, I'm no fool... I know you guys are doing to your lipos as much work and testing as you did w/ NIMHs and NICADs

So - do tell... How are you testing, and what are you seeing for Voltages and voltage drops on the ORION 3200 batteries (Don't care about any others)

Are you heating them...charge/discharging them...or have you found some other really cool trick?

I'm finding most of my packs on discharge @ 36 amps will stay above 7.00 volts past 2 minutes. (Most in the 7.04 - 7.07 range @ the 2 min. mark)

If I quick cycle them - about the 4th charge/discharge that number has come up as high as 7.19

...anyone else?

..what - nobody is telling, or nobody is testing?

uh check out the smc/lipo thread on rc tech

tony at PRS has done a lot of testing with a gfx and lipo

i know that a lipo pack charged and discharged at 35 amps and than charged again shows very nice voltage increases...it is very good reading.....

...ok, I'm no fool... I know you guys are doing to your lipos as much work and testing as you did w/ NIMHs and NICADs

So - do tell... How are you testing, and what are you seeing for Voltages and voltage drops on the ORION 3200 batteries (Don't care about any others)

Are you heating them...charge/discharging them...or have you found some other really cool trick?

I'm finding most of my packs on discharge @ 36 amps will stay above 7.00 volts past 2 minutes. (Most in the 7.04 - 7.07 range @ the 2 min. mark)

If I quick cycle them - about the 4th charge/discharge that number has come up as high as 7.19

...anyone else?

Hey Joe,

IMHO..........If you want max performance from your Lipo packs and do not care about over all life of the packs I recommend the following:

1. Charge at 12.0 amps or 12000mah using normal 8.40 cut-off.
2. Discharge after every run at 35 amps down to 6.0v.
3. After discharge is complete go directly back into a 12.0amp charge while the pack is hot with no waiting or delay between discharge and charge.
4. Taking this one step further, when the pack is done discharging check case temp (120-140 degrees) and wrap a heating pad around the pack like a burrito and keep the pack in the heating pad until you are ready to race. Every 5-10 minutes check the pack temps and do not let them get over 150 degrees. Adjust heating pad temp as needed as 130-140 degrees seem to be optimum temp.
5. Re-top the pack or peak it right before you are ready to run.

This will give you max performance out of your Lipo packs, but you will kill the overall life of the pack. As a side note, if you are temp'd and geared correctly you may need to drop a few teeth as the incresed voltage will add extra heat to the motor.

If you were to just top off the pack and cycle/discharge @ 35amps the voltage will be around 7.00+/-. When using the steps above and cycle @ 35amps the voltage jumps to 7.10+/-.

When you say kill the overall life of the pack could you be more specific?

When you say kill the overall life of the pack could you be more specific?

Using the above charging method but cycling after the 2nd charge, numbers are as follows:.

1 year old 3200
311 runtime
7.10 average voltage
10.7 IR

2 month old 3200
335 runtime
7.13 average voltage
9.2 IR

Just like any pack, when you "beat on it" it will not last forever. NIHM packs are the same way and are best when new. IMHO Lipo packs are exactly the same.

Thanks. The other question I had is what happens if you let it get over 150 on the heating pad? Is the pack trashed right then and there, does it just reduce overall life more or is there a fire risk?

Thanks. The other question I had is what happens if you let it get over 150 on the heating pad? Is the pack trashed right then and there, does it just reduce overall life more or is there a fire risk?

In testing I took a pack to 160+ and it swelled.:freak:

It's important to wrap the pack so the heat is evenly distributed on the cells. If you just lay your pack on the pad the bottom cells will be warmer that the top cells. This will cause a few cells to output higher than the others requiring regular/frequent balancing. Eventually the pack with loose max performance faster than using the above conditioning method.

Joe
I;ve done what Moffre said,but only charged at 8 amps..
my worst pack is 7.11 330,my best pack 7.14 342

I thought discharging a lipo pack was a no no!! if not, arn't we are just going back to what we are doing now with Nimh's Just curious!!

Jon

I thought discharging a lipo pack was a no no!! if not, arn't we are just going back to what we are doing now with Nimh's Just curious!!

Jon

Discharging below 6.0 volts is a no no. Basically a NIHM routine! :thumbsup:

I see... I was always under the impression that you were not suppost to discharge a Lipo, but learn new things I guess

In testing I took a pack to 160+ and it swelled.:freak:




you too huh..lmao

someone said you couldn't get it hot enough from the outside of a hard case and they were WRONG!:freak:

...Well - I got to see first hand what a OVER Discharged LIPO looks like. I normally only discharge @ 35 amps for 3 minutes, but during my discharge at the track - a water pipe burst - and (LIKE an IDIOT) I walked away from the pack for about 3-4 extra minutes...when I came back the pack had broken the straping tape...and looked like an alligator... (Grrrrr) not the way I wanted to start **ALLSTAR WEEKEND** - but on a positive note - pack #2 got us over a lap faster than our last run on the VELO (and I've got better) --- then a bug flew into my son's eyes and he STUFFED the car in the wall...

Broke a LF Wheel/Tire
Broke a FRONT Shock
Broke a center shock ball stud

Not bad for a 55 mph crash.

...Well - I got to see first hand what a OVER Discharged LIPO looks like. I normally only discharge @ 35 amps for 3 minutes, but during my discharge at the track - a water pipe burst - and (LIKE an IDIOT) I walked away from the pack for about 3-4 extra minutes...when I came back the pack had broken the straping tape...and looked like an alligator... (Grrrrr) not the way I wanted to start **ALLSTAR WEEKEND** - but on a positive note - pack #2 got us over a lap faster than our last run on the VELO (and I've got better) --- then a bug flew into my son's eyes and he STUFFED the car in the wall...

Broke a LF Wheel/Tire
Broke a FRONT Shock
Broke a center shock ball stud

Not bad for a 55 mph crash.

Joe what are you discharging with? If yur using a GFX or any of the turbo chargers set it to 6 volts and that's were it will stop :)

now is this discharge method with any lipo pack or only certain mah or brands of packs???

now is this discharge method with any lipo pack or only certain mah or brands of packs???

Works well with Orion 3200 and SMC 5000 packs.

...raymond... I'm a cheap screw... 1154 bulbs - configured to pull 38 amps up front and 34 at the tail... NO CUT OFF on this setup.... (Wish I would have had something)

I'm too freakn Cheap to actually BUY something.

Side Note - SON Bryan had TQ for a while today - and got bumped to 2nd in the 21.5 LIPO on the VELO - he was in 2nd in the main...and a back marker spun into him knocking him flying... he recovered and finished a strong 3rd. (Plus he backed up the practice run of 28 laps...and was only one of 2 cars to do so.)

why can't you guys just leave well enough alone. If we start abusing these things like we did with the NIMHs then LIPO will get a bad wrap from the industry. Just run the packs, don't abuse them and have fun racing. Why do most racers feel the need to blow something for the others. I don't see an advantage of overcharging these things, if the car isn't fast then like everybody says work on the chassis, not by blowing up lipos.

why can't you guys just leave well enough alone. If we start abusing these things like we did with the NIMHs then LIPO will get a bad wrap from the industry. Just run the packs, don't abuse them and have fun racing. Why do most racers feel the need to blow something for the others. I don't see an advantage of overcharging these things, if the car isn't fast then like everybody says work on the chassis, not by blowing up lipos.

Overcharging is different than what was posted above. Overcharging takes the peak voltage past 8.40. The above posted is just an optimum way of getting the most out of your Lipo packs for oval racing.

mister advocate of safty,and over charge,and checking voltage befrore you run a heat,and youre using fricken bulbs to discharge a lipo pack..
i like ya Joe but i think you lost some more marbles..

mister advocate of safty,and over charge,and checking voltage befrore you run a heat,and youre using fricken bulbs to discharge a lipo pack..
i like ya Joe but i think you lost some more marbles..

OUCH............:thumbsup:

Kevin (Mr. Overcharger - LOL) thought you were going to come down and RACE???

I agree - the Bulb discharger...BAD IDEA, and it was done for testing purposes...in a very controlled environment, and it worked very good... But like I've said (and didn't listen to my own words) NEVER WALK AWAY FROM A DISCHARGING BATTERY....and when the water main started shooting water umpteen feet in the air - it was HARD to not be distracted.

On a positive note - While the battery is JUNK - No Smoke - No FIRE - No MELTED Plastic, just a 3 inch tall battery. (*VERY LUCKY)

On the overcharging issue - yesterday - only ONE car had an overcharging issue, and it had the driver very frustrated...cause HE couldn't figure out How or Why HIS packs were coming in too high.

Today - was told by Tech, several of the fast guys came in above the MAX voltage - and they were allowed to drop the voltage down within tolerence for the SHOOTOUT.

Joe, if anyone comes to tech with the volts to hi, they should be dq'ed from the event, period. Just my .02

why can't you guys just leave well enough alone. If we start abusing these things like we did with the NIMHs then LIPO will get a bad wrap from the industry. Just run the packs, don't abuse them and have fun racing. Why do most racers feel the need to blow something for the others. I don't see an advantage of overcharging these things, if the car isn't fast then like everybody says work on the chassis, not by blowing up lipos.


Well said!!:woohoo::wave:

oval racing comes down to hundrenths ,sometimes thousands on the track,what most posters don't seem to comprehend is that competitiveness seeks out ways of extracting the most of your chassis,tires,battery's etc...

Just because all of a sudden,lipo and brushless comes to oval,everyone assumes that you can't or shouldn't screw with it now...Well hate to tell ya ,nothing has changed..

Slow guy's will always be slow,fast guy's will always be fast,regardless of what cell,mill,tire,body,graphite,etc...
Oh yeah,and guy's will always bitch and complain..get over it..just leave it be,go back to you're rock crawlers,and monster bashers..
We have been abusing cells for years and all of a sudden ,oh no,you can't do that..lol...

Joe-just busting ya chops....to much $$$$ to go velo racing right now...

Just run the packs, don't abuse them and have fun racing. Why do most racers feel the need to blow something for the others. I don't see an advantage of overcharging these things, if the car isn't fast then like everybody says work on the chassis, not by blowing up lipos.

...as a race director - that sounds like something I'd say...

...as a racer - I can tell you - 1/3 of the challenge is PUSHING the rules, 1/3 of the challenge is trying to get your "Gray Areas" pushed through tech, 1/3 is about BEATING the guys on the track.

Everybody wants an advantage - even if only small.

Guys with a bigger budget - don't care about abusing a product IF it helps them WIN a race. NEVER HAS - NEVER WILL

1 run motors, 1 run batteries, 1 run tires and bodies....hell if it would win them the race - ONE RUN ESC's.

Others of us (LIKE ME) are just cheap. I want the BEST performance I can get...from the SMALLEST budget possible. This is why I run mostly USED equipment that I can get for 30 - 50% of what NEW would cost me...and I'll punish the heck out of that stuff.

At our **SHOOTOUT** this weekend, there were guys that probably have 100+ hours in their cars, and 100's of dollars.... The cars I build for my kid - STOCK CAR is a original RC10L3O with a DNA dual shock independant front suspension. It's outfitted with a Protoform HS TBird body (made in 1996) and it's on it's 3rd season.

Our cars will NOT run 9.4 second laps with what I put in them (which is what the fast guys were running), but it WILL go 9.7 - 9.8 if we push it...and it will drive like a CADDY at 9.9's & 10.0's.

as a racer, I use to have a lot more fun trying to find an angle into the GRAY zone than I had racing...now being the 'guy in charge' that stuff DRIVES ME NUTTS.

Slow guy's will always be slow,fast guy's will always be fast,regardless of what cell,mill,tire,body,graphite,etc...


I do have to say - even though some are messing w/ the batteries and/or motors... SOME Of the slow guys are still slow - but since we've gone LIPO/BL a whole bunch of the slower group is running just as fast as a lot of the FAST guys - almost to the point that it's a problem at some tracks...because they are almost 2 fast.

Heating packs and freezing motors are a simple procedures that everyone must do to be competitive with the guys that do it. In the case of chilling the motor its just a PITA while heating the battery its dangerous and does shorten the life of the pack (making racing that much more expensive). If I were a track owner or race director I wouldn't allow either of them, and a simple temp gun trackside is the only thing required to check it.

What you guys don't see is that stuff like this is bad for the sport. We are struggling to get a solid group of 21.5s running at my local track. Guys in the slower classes see these things and think "that's just more work, I don't need any part of that noise". What's more fun: racing against 10 at a 6 second pace or racing against 5 at a 5.7 pace? I'll take more cars on the track, thank you.

Does ROAR enforce the 'charge in a fireproof container' rule? Wonder what they think of slipping a heating pad in there as well...

Bob

We are only talking 130 degrees or so,hellvu lot less than what a nimh see's after a run in mod sedan...

Li-Po is not Nickel. Nickel has a laundry list of problems (short working life, maintenance, costs, etc). Li-Po was positioned to correct most or all of these, but those looking for personal advantage and not thinking about the good of the sport have to go and bring those problems to the back to the forefront.

Everyone has heard that LiPo is dangerous because a few massive airplane packs have gone up and created legends. What happens when swelling and fires become a common occurrence on the oval track? The 3200s aren't massive, but they'll still add to the bad press LiPo already has.

Oval used to be IT, but then it got too expensive and other forms of racing got more popular. I guess I was hoping that brushless and LiPo would bring some of that back, and now I'm disappointed that its not.

Bob

checking voltage befrore you run a heat,

Could someone post some details as what Tech looks for during pretech inspection. I've heard a couple things. We're looking into starting to run a lipo class at Turn 4 Next season. I'm just looking to get all the knowledge i can before we do so.

At the Regionals, they checked to make sure the voltage wasn't above 8.44. If it was 8.45 or more, you didn't run that heat. I saw several turned around and sent to the trailer because the voltage was high.

So what do i do between races.Discharge to 6.0 & let it sit or leave whatever voltage is in it after the main?Or discharge to 6.0 & put some charge back in it.This is starting to sound like the way things were before lipo.Next it will be some way to rebuild brushless motors between races.
Dave Werner

Dave,after the main,don't discharge just put away till next race,discharge then ,charge,go run 1st. heat.

Dave,

I'd say MOST of us aren't doing anything - there are a few who do a few things though.

Most of the guys I'm watching don't even take the battery out of the car (Unless it's a race like the SHOOTOUT)

The guys who are though are
a) using a heating pad, wrapped around the pack and get the temps up before charging.
b) cycling the packs 2 or 3 times before qualifying (a couple practice runs does that just fine)
c) a very small number of guys charge and discharge to 6.0, then recharge immediately.

On a 'local' race day up here...we (Bryan and I) have 4 cars going...and 2 chargers. We run - come off the track and put THOSE 2 cars right on the charger, as soon as they are done charging, we put the other 2 on (because we've usually run them by then)

I charge our packs at 7.0 amps (just over 2c) which I do because of the time constraints, running so many cars. Most of the time we don't get a FULL CHARGE back in, the battery will still be between a 1.25 and a 1.00 amp charge when we pull it off the charger. But the way the LIPOS Charge to their specific VOLTAGE then cut the amps, the AMP charge doesn't seem to mean much. They still take the final charge VERY slowly, as the amps continue to drop.

What's funny is that at LOCAL races...we did the SAME THING w/ our NiMh packs - the difference is my LIPO packs are STILL GOING (Except the one I alligatored at the VELO) , and all my NiMh packs lasted about 3 - 4 months.

ALL But ONE of the LIPO Packs (I/we) run - were bought USED either Here on H/T over on RCTech. I bought ONE (The only one they've ever had) from my LHS. We have 5 between the 2 of us. ONE in each car - and ONE Spare, that's always charged incase we forget to charge one after a race.

IMPORTANT: If you (are like me) and leave your BATTERY In The Car all the time - make SURE you unplug it after the main...don't STORE it with the wires plugged in, cause you don't want them to accidentally get fully DISCHARGED

Thanks Koz,thanks Joe.

in reading this thread, it is kinda looking that lipo might be a hassle? lets say i have 1 car and i just want to put 1 lipo pack into the car and be able to keep in there till i sell the car. is that possible or will i have to buy more then one pack to race with? thanks!

p.s. i am a very lazy person and i am looking for the easiest way to race and have fun and be slightly competative if the car is right. brushless motors help me not take the motor out ever and i hope lipo will do the same for batterys :)

Most clubs require a charging sack,so unless you put the whole car in the fire bag.

I saw one guy shoo goo his pack in,till he was told packs needed to be charged in a fire sack.

are the sacks big enough to put the whole car in? i

Porksalot4L

if your track DOESN'T require a LIPO sack - and you are a 'club' level driver...fasten the battery IN THE CAR - and run it. (If you are using an 'encased' battery)

IF you are involved in a severe crash - look at the battery carefully to make sure there is no sign of case damage.

Make sure it's NOT left sitting between races with the wires connected (UNPLUG IT)

One of the worst things you can do to a LIPO is 100% discharge it -

For CLUB racing - these things are SOOOO Sweet - No Soldering Iron is needed, One pack does it ALL and they just go and go and go.

Ask most of the SWTour guys what they think about going LIPO last year.

what is the lipo that will be legal to race in oval?

you'll need to check with your track. A lot of the tracks/clubs have done like we have and limited the batteries to the ORION or PEAK 3200's.

how much are they?

I've bought almost all of mine used for 45-55 bucks. I bought a NEW ONE at store price from my LHS and I think w/ TAX it was $90.00

how much are they?


Stormer Hobbies has them for $66 NEW.

sounds like a decent deal. even i can afford 1 :)

$66 is a good price> Tower price is $84.99!

Stormer Hobbies (https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?src=ns&pn=ORN14001)

$66 is a good price> Tower price is $84.99!

Stormer Hobbies (https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?src=ns&pn=ORN14001)
Ya but do you race at Stormer Hobbies? Probally not. Support your local Hobby Shop

Yeah tell that to all the online basement shops as well.
or ask the local shop if they would price match..8 bucks profit is better than 0.00