Are the girders behind the window braces suppose to touch each other? I glued the control room onto the flying sub bay where the tabs are and the window braces are away from the girters. I always thought the braces were supports for the windows and thus had to contact each other. Am I wrong? I also noticed that there is no speaker and red light behind the flying sub hatch. I guess this is the outside shot reference and not inside as much.

It doesn't look like you have the "glass" in place yet (or you were able to take your shot with zero reflection). The glass will fill in a large portion of that gap.

But not all of it!
Yes, the girders should be right up against the hull.

But not all of it!
Yes, the girders should be right up against the hull.

I guess I'll have to reposition the control room. Drat, it's already glued.

So was that a model error, or just a mistaken build?

So was that a model error, or just a mistaken build?

I havent gotten that far but the kit is pretty fool proof as far as its engieering goes. The FS bay locks into the lower hull panel so there is nothing to screw up there. The bridge locks positively to the top of the FS bay with pins molded to the bay roof fitting into holes in the bridge floor (that need to be puttied in). So basically when you fit the bottom of the hull in place, that locks the bridge into position. If its too far back... thats an engineering problem or was done to avoid the possibility of too snug a fit (a little slop is better for a mass market kit sometimes). It should be easy to test fit the parts first then make any adjustments. :thumbsup:

The two center girders touch one another while the other four rest on top of the the opening in the front wall of the control room then the horseshoe shaped girder fits into notches in the six L-shaped girders.

Dave

Ok there is going to be a "gap" between the girders and the glass in any event.

The way the kit is engineered is very good and the main parts for the Flying Sub bay, bridge area, lower hull, upper hull and window cap all fit very nicely. The position of all those parts is very positive and you really can't goof up.

The front girders fit fairly well. There is a little slop in the fit, which is good. I found the center two girders tended to want to lean a bit to the ship's right side. The upper horse shoe girder isnt the best fit, mainly because its pretty thin and due to its thinness it cant really lock well into the other girders.

The reason you will get a gap no matter what is not because of the fit of the control room floor, how the girders assemble, etc. Its because the girders are flat along the front and the nose is curved. The nose bulges out away from the girders in the middle of the windows.

(/______ kit girders and floor behind curved nose

((______ curved girders behind curved nose


Here is my model taped together...
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/djnick66/SeaviewWindows.jpg

That sounds like a design flaw then. Wonder if there would be anyway to heat them, and bend them into shape? Unless that's actually accurate to the actual models?

Among other sources, I plan on using the FX Models studio scale miniature as a reference for shading and painting. Here's the link:
http://www.fxmodels.com/seaview.shtml

This photo shows how they got around the curvature issue.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/Trekriffic/Miscellaneous%20Images/NoseControlRm-2.jpg
Looks like the window frames are straight instead of curved.
From photos I've seen of the actual interior girders they are straight and flush with the windows.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/Trekriffic/Miscellaneous%20Images/voynosefx.jpg

So... should we conclude that the curved windows in the kit are mistake ?

So... should we conclude that the curved windows in the kit are mistake ?

I think this gets back to what the aim of the/your model is...

1) is it a model of a "real sub", assuming the Seaview was real.

2) is it a model of one of at least two filming miniatures, known to differ from each other in various details

3) is the interior a model of again the "real" interior as it would be on the actual Sub, versus a simplified studio set with size, proportion, dimensional issues.

4) a mix of all of the above


I would assume a real sub would have formed, curved glass.
The miniatures might have had either. I think the Movie sub glass was curved and that big model had a large budget, was being crafted for a movie, and a lot of time went into it.

From this photo (cropped for discussion purposes) the front windows look flat. There is no curve to the top and bottom frames, and little or any to the vertical framing.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/djnick66/SeaviewWindowsminiature.jpg

This makes sense too from a model makers point of view.... They quickly lopped off the 8 window nose and made a new four window nose. With all the work for the Flying sub, sonars, etc. Im sure they didnt waste a lot of time on the windows.

The set photo posted shows the set girders to differ substantially from the kit girders in detail and shape. The FX girders are also a bit different.

Good analysis, DJ. Here's another shot that shows the flat windows and surrounding nose area in the 17 foot miniature:

http://rtq.net/rtq/modeling/images/Seaview_RTQ_Nose_2.jpg

Well, assuming the curved windows are a livable mistake, shouldn't the girders have also been modeled curved as well to match them?

In my opinion why not just shim the girders as close to the windows as possible with thin plastic? This would be a simple way to eliminate that gap.... If not you will have to get the curve inside of the window and make new girders which isn't impossible. Or wait till someone makes a resin set to correct this issue.

Solex227

Well, assuming the curved windows are a livable mistake, shouldn't the girders have also been modeled curved as well to match them?

Yeah that would be the case. The interior of the kit is also probably based on the set/prop with flat windows and straight girders.

Shimming would be kind of odd. I'd just leave them be or remake them. Making new ones would be really pretty easy. You only need three pairs of girders for a total of 6. That way the holes would be in the proper location versus shimming.

I had an idea of sanding the tabs down and moving the control room forward until the girders touched the window braces. Or maybe someone could photoetch a new set along with the radar dish.

That solution sounds like the easiest.

I had an idea of sanding the tabs down and moving the control room forward until the girders touched the window braces. Or maybe someone could photoetch a new set along with the radar dish.
Are you just trying to give me more work? ;)

Let me finish what I've started before adding more stuff to add to the etch frets!

Actually, an alternative I thought of (and this might not work as I haven't dry fitted that part of the ship yet): Add small fillets between the existing kit girders and the front of the hull. This would simulate the interior window frames as seen in the interior set. I think it might require cutting the windows into individual frames so the pieces can fit and look right.

I'm thinking some Alves globbed onto the front of the girders and then squished against the hull might be the way to do it - once it's set up a little it could be shaped back to make it the right width.

Does that sound doable?

Sheet styrene and a drill bit wouldn't do the job? One could make a cardboard template. Sounds simple, anyway.

Shouldn't be any harder than making the landing gear wells for the Jupiter 2. Styrene is a wonderful tool and very forgiving.

Of course everyone is right in their opinion of the girders.

However we all forgot about the "Collision Sheilds"!

For the collision sheilds to work, they would need to slide between the Glass and the Inner Hull, which would in effect, have the girders NOT be but up against the window frames!!!

In my humble opinion that is.


BP

Aren't the crash doors OUTSIDE the glass? What would be the point of them not protecting the glass from shattering, and flooding the ship when the doors open?

BP makes more sense than the show ever did. :)

I wonder who cool it would look with the crash doors closed...

Aren't the crash doors OUTSIDE the glass? What would be the point of them not protecting the glass from shattering, and flooding the ship when the doors open?

Isn't that what I said???:rolleyes:

Isn't that what I said???:rolleyes:No.:rolleyes:

"FOR the collision sheilds to work, they would need to slide between the Glass and the Inner Hull, which would in effect, have the girders NOT be but up against the window frames!!!"

Well, BETWEEN THE GLASS and the INNER HULL, would imply that THE GLASS IS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE GLASS.


BP

Does anyone have a photo of there kit with the windows in place to see how much of a gap there is. Sorry:rolleyes: I would dry fit my own but Im working to finish another kit so I can move to this project. I know the part for the window seem pretty thick but flush with the inside surface of the hull when put in place. Without the window it seems like there is a lot of space between the girders and the window frame.

Solex277

Of course everyone is right in their opinion of the girders.

However we all forgot about the "Collision Sheilds"!

For the collision sheilds to work, they would need to slide between the Glass and the Inner Hull, which would in effect, have the girders NOT be but up against the window frames!!!

In my humble opinion that is.


BP

I think you have something there. I'll drag out my copy of the 2nd season and see. I may make some just for fun.

Well, BETWEEN THE GLASS and the INNER HULL, would imply that THE GLASS IS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE GLASS.Hey! Don't pop a string in your Hofner, pal. Sheesh! :freak:

Hey! Don't pop a string in your Hofner, pal. Sheesh! :freak:



No string popping here Sir(LOL)!

I wasn't sure you understood. My apologies if it was taken the wrong way.


High Regards,
BP

So the glass is on the outside of the glass?

I thought the glass was also on the inside of the glass as well?

I thought the glass was half empty . . . or is it half full?

It's half full...but with the wrong stuff! :)

Are we on the outside--?


--looking in?

The crash doors should be between the Outer hull and the Glass. So there would still be a gap between the glass and the girders. But that would be inconvenient to explaining why there's a gap. Maybe we can shave off the registration pins that are on top of the Flying Sub bay and just scoot the obs deck/control room forward a skooch.

Are we on the outside--?

. Maybe we can shave off the registration pins that are on top of the Flying Sub bay and just scoot the obs deck/control room forward a skooch.

That still wont really fix it. If you look back at my pictures you will see the girders can only get so close to the glass as the glass and front of the sub are curved (so they bow away from the girders) but the girders are flat. You can only get a flat girder so close to something that bows out away from it.

Blast. You are right. Is the "glass" in the miniature also curved? Or is it a flat piece that was bent to match the curve of the bow--more or less? If it's straight, maybe a thin piece of PEET could be bent to match the curve formed by the girders.

Could you just cut out some clear flat styrene and glue that to the girders? Making a double layer of glass?

Could you just cut out some clear flat styrene and glue that to the girders? Making a double layer of glass?

I wouldnt bother with that... it will just make the windows more reflective and glarey. And it would be odd having a flat window behind a curved window.

Like I said, I think I would 1) leave it be or 2) make new curved girders to match the curved kit windows.

IRWIN ALLEN brand crash doors did NOT have the dimension of thickness. They were installed on the front of the Seaview, and upper and lower windows of the Jupiter 2 even though they only used the ones on the lower level. They found out in the 1st episode that even smashing into Aluminum foil asteroids in that 'Meteor Swarm' while going faster than light, that the windows held, and didn't even crack! Perhaps the Unobtanium hull helped hold the frames in alignment?

Watch "And The 5 of us Were Left." Crash doors were between the windows and the girders. Thus the gap between.

The crash doors would have to be on the inside of the glass, or the windows couldn't be flush with the hull.

"FOR the collision sheilds to work, they would need to slide between the Glass and the Inner Hull, which would in effect, have the girders NOT be but up against the window frames!!!"

Well, BETWEEN THE GLASS and the INNER HULL, would imply that THE GLASS IS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE GLASS.


BP

No, between the glass and the OUTER hull would put the shields outside the windows.

The crash doors would have to be on the inside of the glass, or the windows couldn't be flush with the hull.

Depends on the model you look at... the smaller underwater miniature has big raised frames around the windows that aren't flush.

I don't think that you would be able to to fit the whole door in the frame a round the window....:freak: It is impossible for the glass to be flush with the outer hull if a crash door can deploys in front of it..... But with fairy's dust , you never know......

Gaétan

Irwin Allen had bags of fairy dust!

I'm not talking about those little sandwich bags either. These were like contractor-grade garbage bags. He used to drive around the SFX shop in a golf cart with one of these bags in back and he'd throw handfuls on the miniatures.


Meh. I'm not going to worry about it. Allen didn't!

http://flickr.com/photos/modern_fred/2092902387/

Well according to the Seaview's own blueprint its all wrong on the kit...

The drawing doesn't match the miniatures (sonar housing on top of hull) or the sets (control room inst in the bow).

What color is this?

http://flickr.com/photos/modern_fred/2092904583/in/photostream/


http://flickr.com/photos/modern_fred/2092902643/in/photostream/

What color is this?

http://flickr.com/photos/modern_fred/2092904583/in/photostream/


http://flickr.com/photos/modern_fred/2092902643/in/photostream/

Grey...

Honestly trying to match a color for a model based on a screen grab of unknown quality, based on what quality of film stock or transmission, and vieded on what monitor res is useless. Unless you viewed the miniature first hand anything else is jsut a guess. Its sort of like a dark gull grey. IN those shots it has a slight, slight, brownish tinge. But I personally don't think the sub had brown in it...

rust? ;)