How many people would like to see X2 racing resurrected? Tired of slow
old T-jets? Tired of the bickering if you run the wrong MFG. at certain
races? Magnum 440 X2s-18 volt Super Stocks and Pure Stock open
wheel cars on 12 or 18 volts are starting to apeal to me.Like T-jet was,
there are enough parts to last a few years untill we tire of them and
move on.Racing could be close and cheap, if we don't go crazy with
the rules.The open wheel bodies are so cool looking,not like these nascar
lumps we have today.The AW cars just don't have enough quality to
them for me.A modern SS is as fast as a R.O. Tyco used to be,so a
Tyco SS could be a good class to have just under modern Super Stocks
for people not quite up to speed,or that just want to race Tycos.

I like racing Tycos, both hard body and lexan. Very economical and tons of speed parts. Like them with $7 Phase II magnets too, especially on plastic tracks.

TJets don't have to be slow. Run the JL/AW variety with all the standard "Fray" upgrades and you can have yourself one snappy little pancake powered puppy.

The most important thing is to run classes that make sense for the group of people that you race with. Don't try to shove a supposedly "National" class down the throats of the people in your club if they don't give a crap about prepping for a Nats run. Having fun with your buds and running a fair program where anyone feels they can win is what matters more than anything. If guys start bringing their kids and friends to the races you're doing something right. If the same 3 guys win all the races and attendance is dropping off, you're doing something wrong.

I have looked at some racing class rules and thought screw it, too complicated or too expensive to be fun for me. I like tycos and I like keeping it simple. A class of racing stock cars with slip ons would be cool with me, maybe I might race somewhere other than my own track then. J

Started with Tyco X2 back in the 1980's racing. They was fun and handle super when set up right. Now a days you can use some of the big manuf. parts to make them sing. BSRT, Slottech, Wiz. they all interchange. I run anything, but I like the Tjets the best.:thumbsup:

No racing has to be overly complicated. ECRS (run by Rabbit Racing) is a perfect example...their rules for ceramic SS and RO are usually about 4 sentences long. Very fun to race with these guys. When we run "Fray Style" cars locally, we use a modified set of the International Rules, replacing things like precise body thickness rules with "no obvious handling characteristics cast into the body". And no rules based on "Holy Grail" parts...that's the root cause of part sorting. If the rules are based on commonly accessible parts, everyone has a shot at the podium.

There is a downside though, and that is that there will always be people who step outside of the box, sometimes unintentional but it happens. For example, if you run "Stock T-Jets with Aurora mags only", sooner or later you'll find Tuffie or AFX mags being used ("..it does say Aurora, right?"). We even had one local "guru" quietly shimming his T-Jets that he was racing in stock classes. AFXToo makes a great point about the same guys always winning all the races...skill takes a holiday once in a while, even the best will have a genuine bad day from time to time. I'm one of those guys who rarely worries about doing a tech tear-down, but in retrospect I wish I had done more because I've seen what can happen to a robust group when 95% of the field keeps getting majorly spanked by the other 5% in every class.

Back to the point, I love racing stock Tycos, but even in stock form they have one sticky issue that is a pain to tech and it bugs the heck out of me with these cars. Scott Vargo likely knows what I'm talking about...anyone else?

I am not sure what tech issue you are refering to.Brushes and
springs are hard to police,we usualy left those to stock replacement
to eliminate the problem.Tech is necessary,certain people will try
to cheat,but routine tear downs eventualy discourage them.

Tim when we race, myself and another guy generally finish within sections of each other in every class we run, even when we're mid-pack...except Tyco, where he routinely finishes first by sometimes tens of laps. Visually the chassis is bone stock like the rest, even the traction mags are same orientation. A hint would be that the chassis originally came under a Lamborghini. Rules are simple:

1. Chassis assembly must be a stock and unmodified TYCO/Mattel chassis with a stock narrow-gap red wire armature and stock ceramic magnets.
2. Narrow or Wide chassis may be used, but no open-wheel bodies are allowed.
3. Body may not be cut or modified except for paint and/or decals.
4. All electrical parts must be stock or similar copper parts, ski shoes may be used.
5. Only stock wheels and gears are allowed. Slip-on silicone rear tires may be used.

Morning Gene-
I'm sitting here finishing my coffee trying to figure out what it is you're referring to...?

- the stronger magnets on earlier X2's?

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/icons/icon5.gif

Hey Scott :wave:
Maybe you need more coffee. :freak:

You brought this up way back on another board, I'll give it a bit before I spill the answer to this.....uhmmm....cliffhanger.

I have seen Japanese Tyco lambos with rare earth magnets.
Easy to spot though.I get my best magnets out of Turbo trains.

I think there were some Japanese issue X2s with samarium cobalt traction magnets. I was at the Richfield show a few years back and some guy from CA had a new, still in the package import F1 car with these magnets. A friend of mine bought the car without blinking an eye while I was looking at the other stuff on the table. He was after the body but when he saw the magnets the asking price (30 bucks if I recall) suddenly seemed like a bargain.

I've heard of but never saw the cobalts. Actually, the chassis this guy is using is an earlier Cliffhanger, which are rumored to have stonger traction mags. Seeing how this particular car handles, and the lap times he gets with it, I don't doubt it for a minute. Again, him and I are very close in just about every other class of car, more often than not side by side in finishing order. But with this particular Tyco chassis he is untouchable, it might as well be a race from second to last.

This is the Tyco 440X2 I race on the oval, but it's kinda trashy compared to a BSRT G3.
It's a Tyco wide body on a pan chassis so it can absorb a lot of impact.

It's a real crash car. :freak:

Wizzard stock Patriot armature.
Tyco stock motor magnets.
Tyco stock brushes, barrels.
Wizzard .006 silver brush springs.
Tyco stock pick up shoes.
Wizzard double pickup shoe springs.
Brass bushing bulkheads.
BSRT reversed zapped ceramic traction magnets.
BSRT 8 tooth poly pinion.
BSRT 22 tooth poly crown gear.
Quicker .270 double flange hubs with SuperTires.
BSRT G3 front wheel set.
BSRT pro guide pin.

http://i32.tinypic.com/25s5smp.jpg

The Tyco car offers so many options for aftermarket parts and
different bodies.It's a shame not to be racing them.Bring back
the Tyco!

The Tyco car offers so many options for aftermarket parts and different bodies.It's a shame not to be racing them.Bring back the Tyco!

Why do you think they are gone? There are still plenty of NOS Tyco chassis and cars available. Throw in the available Mattel 440x2 chassis and there is still quite a bit of stock available - as far as I know.

Joe

Tyco's are not being raced in my area or at the nationals.
I would like to see them make a comeback.HOPRA was
working on a spec class at one time,they would work well
in that environment.

At Monaco Grand Prix in Eden, NC we just got done with running a 8 race season with 440X2 Wide Pan Nascar. Box stock with only super tires allowed.

I really like the X2. It is a very easy running car. I would love to see the car stay around.

Not that it needs anything, but if it got motor and traction magnet upgrades and new up to date bodies it would be as good as Tomy in my book.

Of coarse at a good price too!

Hey Scott :wave:
Maybe you need more coffee. :freak:

You brought this up way back on another board, I'll give it a bit before I spill the answer to this.....uhmmm....cliffhanger.

I've heard of but never saw the cobalts. Actually, the chassis this guy is using is an earlier Cliffhanger, which are rumored to have stonger traction mags. Seeing how this particular car handles, and the lap times he gets with it, I don't doubt it for a minute. Again, him and I are very close in just about every other class of car, more often than not side by side in finishing order. But with this particular Tyco chassis he is untouchable, it might as well be a race from second to last.
Awe come on Gene I thought I nailed it>? :confused: :) The Cliffhangers had stronger mags on the motor and traction dept. Also had the big window arms but those aren't legal anymore.

And the cobalt traction mags were on some protoype X3 chassis's that may have made it into circulation. Rumors were they are a Puma item.

http://www.supervipersystems.com/VargoSpeedway/HO_Cars/Tyco/TycoX3/tycox3protochasbot.jpg http://www.supervipersystems.com/VargoSpeedway/HO_Cars/Tyco/TycoX3/tycox3prototracmags.jpg

-Scott V

On the new Mattel Cars the Charger with the big rimmed rear wheels has larger traction magnets that stay close to the rails with the taller rear tires.

Roger Corrie

I have also seen some X2s with independent front axles
like the original G+.

Scott those mags seem to be Neo.

Cobalt,they have been popping up on Ebay for quite a while.
http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/95/93/5a_1.JPG

I have also seen some X2s with independent front axles like the original G+.

I think you are referring to the chassis which came with the Moto Cross bikes. These have independant fronts, with the guide pin set a little further back because there is an opening at the front of the chassis to allow for the front wheel of the Moto Cross bike. They also have a rear guide pin.

The Charger which Roger referred to has a Mattel HPX chassis which only came on the Charger and Superbird from the same set. The Charger does have larger rear wheels and therefore slightly larger traction magnets to compensate. I believe both chassis are considered HPX even though they do have different size rear wheels and the Superbird does not have the larger traction magnets.

By the way, the HPX chassis look good under the Hummer body.

Joe

Scott those mags seem to be Neo.
The photos are deceiving. They appear to be nickel plated as the coating has chipped in places.

I love runnin Tyco's . When I started racin Tyco's were top of the line . I have many SS, RO Tyco's . they are a blast , I wish someone in my area was racin them . :cry:

The photos are deceiving. They appear to be nickel plated as the coating has chipped in places.

Fair does sir. My apologies.

In Texas, we race Tycos.

In Texas, we race Tycos.

speak for yourself sissy boy, real me race G-plus...


Lol..

Tyco is fer Kids...

speak for yourself sissy boy, real me race G-plus...


Lol..

Tyco is fer Kids...

wwwwhoooooaaaaa!!! i race tyco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! g-plus is a whimpy chassis!! bring it on!!! i am just so happy that dallas cowboys !@#$%^&* the dead eagles!!!

Wes

I cut my teeth in racing with a tyco......Inde fronts, lite force or phase II tractions and slipons......that was some of the best racing especially on Tomy tracks...I still have one of my old racing HK narrow chassis in my museum complete and ready to race....

Yo!

Tyco set for Christmas, Who hasn't got one of them, Commies that's who.
I cut my teeth on them also, Tyco NASCAR, Tyco Indy, Lovem. But it was not hard to learn you had to apply yourself to it, Like all racing. You are still going to have the three top guys win week after week, (These guys are called "Single"). But yeah, I've put the research, work, and dollars to be compitive in Stock Tyco, I would love to see it come back. They make the track smooth for T-Jets. Just wondering to all out there, was it just here in Western New York, or does everyone show up to race Tyco NASCAR with a Yellow Michael Waltip Penzoil Body? There was a lot more indy bodies that were entered, but it seemed everyone had a Micheal Waltrip Penzoil Yellow Nascar body (with the glass out). Is it differant in other states?

. . . Tyco set for Christmas, Who hasn't got one of them, Commies that's who . . . You are still going to have the three top guys win week after week, (These guys are called "Single") . . .

Oh man you killed me with that. :lol:

Finally, the truth has been revealed. The Soviet Union did not collapse due to their form of government or their attempts to maintain an arms edge on the West. It was brought to its knees by a lack of Tyco slot cars. Yes, the 440X2 was the secret weapon that brought down the Iron Curtain!
:woohoo:

On the Tyco they forgot to bring the motor magnets down to the bottom of the chassis even with the traction magnets.
But Gary Beedle fixed that with the T2 magnets in the BSRT T2 (http://scaleauto.com/bsrt/t2_cars.htm) car.

BSRT T2 is a ceramic magnet Tyco that's set up for racing instead of just lopeing the old mule.

__________________

http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style8,SuperFist.png

My issue with the choice of Tyco is that -- yet again -- a bunch of guys are going to be racing a chassis that does not benefit a current HO manufacturer.

A lot of money was spent on T-Jets, but it did not inject any money into the hobby -- the money went to a distributor who had a bunch of old stuff on hand and could sell it a a price that did not reflect the current manufacturing cost. And when the supply of NOS chassis was gone, the party was over, and a bunch of small specialized T-Jet accessory hobby operations are paying the price.

Now that Tyco is gone, and since Mattel does not care about HO, you now want to race Tyco/Mattel chassis.

I would like to ask that you guys to *please* pick a chassis from a company that would use your $$$ and give something back to the hobby! I don't care if it's AFX/Racemasters, Scale Auto, Wizzard, SlotTech (I believe the last two are basically versions of the Tyco chassis) or RiggenHO -- and I may have forgotten a couple. Imagine using a chassis that you could buy more of; you would never run out of them!

There isn't enough money being spent in this hobby in the first place. Having a significant group spend their dollars on the products of a defunct company hurts the hobby as a whole.

-- Bill

The thing of it is, Tyco and T-jets, $10.00 to $15.00 a chasis, the only thing offered by a manufacture is the "JL Thunderjet 500" (Which is actually a Tuff-Ones) and the "Super III" (Which so far is sub-standard). Great attempt, and points for trying but if you have bought one, you know what I am talking about.
So on to the Wiz, Scaleauto, Riggen... all great guys, all great products, all of them a great promoters of HO racing.... But entry level is $50.00, and thats a problem for most/some. Especially when $50.00 is an entry level car in 1/32.
I think there is enough money being spent in the hobby, just ask my wife. Seriously though, does any of the money spent with todays manufactures go "Back into" the hobby, I have not seen anybody on the Tonight Show racing Jay Leno for a Mustang, I have not seen any signage in the local hobby store advertising a chance to win a Kyle Bush stop watch and trophy.... They obviuosly don't pay the workers in China, They dont put it into quality parts and componets. They do come out with new rehashed cars and chasis, JL is throwing money into 1/32, but thats "Where it's at" according to market research. I know a few Shop/Track owners that have gotten beat up by the same manufactures I'm talking about because they sell to anybody. Sorry thats not true, you have to do some paperwork and take a picture of your garage dressed up like a ligit hobby shop. I'd rather race old chasis, that are good, and even better with the help of Wizzard and Scaleauto, and put money into thier pockets than Joe egZek at Corp.. Never seen him at a Slot Race. I've seen Bob, and I know Gary is there for his customers also.
Maybee it's just the nastalgia of it all. A chance to "Go back" to better times, re-live the youth (It is wasted on the young), or maybee after 20yrs I finally got it figured out and am looking for a good race, or at least a chance to run up front with the big dogs. In my neck of the woods the big dogs have turned into old dogs, they admit racing the t-jets because they can see them. The RO's and others are just blurs...(they do complain about the little parts). But they would race stock Tyco's to, they have them, they know them, and they can see them.
I do wish someone would come out with something new, or old (T-Jet), thats a quality car, for $15.00 to $20.00, that was being backed by the maker, with parts AND promotion, at the Hobby/Slot Track shop level.

Well said, MexB.
WM, the current manufacturers are not benefitting the current slot car racers. AWs quality is just okay, and Tomys good stuff is at least 25$. LifeLike does good in the Nascar stuff, but the cars, out of the pack, vary condsiderably. The best 'box stock' classes I ever saw were Tyco 440x2s.(narrow chassis or pan) The world would just be a better place if everyone raced Tycos.:)

Well said, MexB.
The world would just be a better place if everyone raced Tycos.:)

I agree, an AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

I love Tycos too. Slide some $7.00 Phase IIs into a well tuned X2 and put the $100 purpose built ceramic SS race cars to shame and still have $70 in your pocket to buy pizza and beer for the losers. :)

Hey MexiB you want the sad irony?

The few shops that are left can move SA and Wiz stuff all day long. Why? These guys are devoted to the hobby and they know the shops are critical to the future of racing slot cars. TL obviously could give a rat's butt, it's obvious after so many years now that he could care less about how his product makes it to the marketplace...as long as it ain't sitting in his warehouse he must feel all is well in the slot world. The JL line pumped a huge breath of fresh air into this hobby, resulting in a peak that hasn't been seen in probably 20 years or better. The shops were lining up for product, hell we even had a local five and dime stocking them. Then the collector games began, and in what's IMO the dumbest move to hit this hobby...ever...TL lets his suppliers loose in the public marketplace. So now you have guys going to shops to race with boxes full of cars they got at or damn near the same price the shop buys 'em. And while even today some shops carry the line, most have said "screw this" and the attitude trickles to all HO product. In short, the current state of this hobby in general is a very thin hair away from being FUBAR. Sure we all do our best to help, but without a somewhat steady stream of affordable current product being infused into the (real) marketplace the hobby of HO racing will remain a sideshow in the hobby world. :(

That said, Tycos are still cool. :thumbsup:

Gene, well put. I hate when the manufacturers want to manufacture collectability. It's insanely stupid and only results in less product on the shelf. I'm sure Aurora had no idea what the future would be like when they were making their assortments of colors and chassis. None of them said on the package 'limited edition'. Besides that, when the manufacturers start looking at it from the collectability standpoint, the race quality suffers, because hey, it was never supposed to come out of the package! I like the JL AW stuff and am glad they started producing all these bodies, it's great. But, like I said before, I sure was expecting to see HW put out some new bodies or repops from Tyco. I don't know, I guess they didn't want to hurt Tycos 'collectability'.

Rich :confused:

I like the JL/AW stuff also. I like the fact that instead of $40.00 for an AMX body i paid $5. I always hated the "Collectability" of it all. I want a slot car to do what a slot car is Built for, to be raced, or at least make some hot laps. Buy a static model if you want a shelf queen. I only have one slot car that has not been raced at some point, and that is a(n) 250SWB Berlineta from BRP, the casting is "Without flaw" . I will race it when I get another, but until then it sits in my box (Not on a shelf) waiting.
I was into model building befor i got heavy into racing slot cars. Many cars got out of price range because of the collectability, I love it when they come out with re-issues, it lowers the price on the old kits, and I can buy the new kit at a reseanable price also (and with new decals that are not all yellow and cracked).
The new JL/AW chasis is not great, but alot of the "Bugs" have been worked out or have gone away. With the "Fray Style" tm,reg,copywrited, chasis set up, all the bad parts on the JL/AW get tossed anyway.
JL/AW breathed a new life into HO for sure, cant argue that, they are taking those profit dollars and dumping them into 1/32. And when that fizzles they will most likely turn around and get into R/C stuff.
The Slot car hobbie was supposed to be dead years ago, and here we are... Still racing, collecting, building, comming up with better ways to skin the cat and Bench Racing on-line. I only say this because I worked at a smal Train Hoby shop for awhile and was told by the big hobby suppliers that the slotcar/train hoby was on the way out. Remote Control is the way to go, and it is a huge segment of hobby sales, but new trains and slotcars are still on the shelf. As long as there is Christmas there will be Trains, and slotcars.
When I go racing (Seasons allmost here, oh boy o boy). I buy a ton of stuff at the shop, and most of it is Wizzards latest and greates offerings. It puts money back into the hobby, the shop, and the suppliers pocket, and most of the time "The Wiz" is there to race so I can ask him the best way to put the stuff I bought/or he gave away, to good use. He (Bob L.) promotes the hobby by showing up, Helping out with questions, and listening to racers concerns or wants for the future, why wouldn't you support someone like that. Times up, got to go.

I like the JL/AW stuff also. I like the fact that instead of $40.00 for an AMX body i paid $5. I always hated the "Collectability" of it all. I want a slot car to do what a slot car is Built for, to be raced, or at least make some hot laps. Buy a static model if you want a shelf queen.
I don't know if its the 'return to better times' or just liking the product, or a combination of both. Affordability is key. Tjets and Magnatractions have stuck around all this time because of the quality. From engineering to the final product, they are fun to race, and so are Tycos, for the same reasons.

I just hate to see current manufacturers makin stuff thats going to go the way of Ideal, Darda and Marchon, because the product sucked and at best doesnt race good. It sure looks like thats where the SuperIIIs are headed. What's up with them using a different body mount on the SuperIIIs?

Rich

Rich, That AMX I was talkin about didn't go on, excuse me. Didn't stay on a JL Chasis. Because quality is important. I do not understand the SuperIII, all that money for a "New" car, and for a few dollars more it cold have been soooo much better. Actually, for the same money and better engineering/research could have been so much more. If that is the best we can do nowadays... Do you have to ask why we race 40yr - 20 yr old cars?
As far as the Body goes, it is a shame they are not backwards compatible with ANY old body, rather than that why not just put the posts on the chasis for Lexan Bodies? But as you said earlier, they wern't supposed to come out of the package.

I haven't tried one......is it safe to say the Super III is not so super after all?

I haven't tried one......is it safe to say the Super III is not so super after all?
Well, Rudi. They look great, I really like the Dodge. I bought one. They come equipped with push on silicon tires and huge traction magnets. I put it on my 24v banked oval, and man, it was a rocket, until I put my 16yr old stock tire Tyco on the track a blew away the lap times. It seems the the big traction magnets present a problem for the chassis. On my road coarse, they grip too good, causing the car to run slow. I thought it was over heating because my track is 24v, but we have been running an IROC class with these on 18v tracks with the same problem, overheating, sluggish acceleration. Different ohms controllers dont seem to help. This is on a stock chassis, but there are improvements that can be made.
1. You have to change the gears. 9 times out of 10 they dont mesh well. Weve had the gears strip on a few in the IROC series. The guy that provides the cars does repair everytime we run them.
2. After the gears, change the tires. (These come with Goodyears) They stick good, but after changing the gears its just neccessary.
3. Other tuning, adjusting shoes, brush spring pressure, wedge, is always needed, sometimes in the middle of the race.
Im not sure how to deal with the overheating, but the above improvements seem to help. The best imprvement Ive seen someone do on one is this.....
Shave the body mounts off the body and mount on a SuperG+ chassis. This seems to work the best.
I hate to dis on any slot car, but like MxB said, I'm just dissapointed in the quality and some of the design, considering the price. They could, however, do some minor tweaking and improve the chassis. It would help if 10yr old kids weren't making them. They really should move the body mounts to be compatible with AFX and/or Tyco. Then they could at least sell the cars for the bodies.

Rich :(

If you think the traction magnets are causing overheating, did you try running larger diameter rear tires to reduce the traction?

Yes sir,
They come with really big tires, but something just seems to be off.

I got mine and could see before hitting the track with it that the Pinion was off center and the spur/crown gear was too. So before I made laps I tossed them for a Supper G+ rear end and pinion. After a couple laps I had to put taller tires on it. Then the Brushes came loose (this was a cool thing that they would actually put this engineering into the car) so I little "Gummie" glue on the tip of the screw for "Locktite" and I was making laps agian.
So the point originally was: what is the gear ratio like (I didn't check before chuckin them). Would the arm contribute to heat? I know some can't handle Battery power (Amps).
I lost intrest with the car, 1/2 hour after comming home with it and it being out of the package and I allready had a rear end in it, allready went blind looking for the damm screw for the brushes, many adjustments on the shoes, rounding the tires, messing with a mile high body, finding out I can't put any other body on it... ERGHHHHHH
Here's one for you Rich... "Save the aggrivation, RACE aTYCO!"

We race a tyco nascar class on sat nigts
i have been racing this car for years