This is why our hobby doesn't work! I know that a lot of tracks have spec classes and what not, but where I race (MAXIMUS) we do not have those types of classes. don't get me wrong maximus is awesome:thumbsup:i have been racing rc for about one year and i run 17.5. o.k. here it comes, why should i have to try to compete with people that have been racing for "twenty" years and are sponsored. they have things such as batteries, chassis etc. that i can't even buy! Yes, I know it's not all about batts. it's set up, so if thats the case, the guys that are sponsored by tire companys have the luxuary of getting tires in all sorts of compounds for little to no money. it costs me $80 to buy one set of tires do you think im going to be able to spend that on something that may or may not work? I know, boo hoo! but this is the problem people. i would like to see what would happen if you gave the fastest guy at the track one chassis, four tires, one rotor,and a battery that he bought of the shelf and see if he sets any track records! i doubt it. and also why should you stack heats? if mister pro is so good why can't he start with all the "rookies" and work his way up every week just like i have too! i'm sick of looking at the heat sheets and seeing the six fastest guys at the track in one heat and then every one else randomly sorted.if were going to give the fast guys at the track special privileges that make it even easier to win,than why would i or anyone new that wants to get into this sport even bother? people race cars to win not get there butts kicked week in and week out by guys that get preferential treatment....

Rick Brown

Rick i dont really agree and i do agree with you on this one, for one i know a few guys that you can hand a car and 4 tires and go buy a battery and even a motor out of the hobbyshop and break the track record or run close to it. but your right about not having a beginners or i believe 17.5 should be for the less experienced guys to get into rc, and not have to race against the "Pros" and get there butts kicked and quite the hobby before they get started

Rick, how do you think the Pro's got there?
Work!!!
Yes certain aspects can be frustrating, but the fact is with enough work anyone can win. And the way most scoring systems work, either they keep track of how you do in the races and set the heats up, or a value is given to the driver of each finishing order. A lot of people see it as "Stacking" but its the way the software works also.
Heath is a great promoter/director, and would not do anything to alter his status as a fair race director.

got the perfect class for ya, SK'S!!!! lol I always wanted to see the class there but just never took off, we are going to bring something to maximus to show this weekend that might help this problem. Stop by and see us KSKT Racing Products.

I see that as the biggest problem of all,we run guys off because of that.We have to remember that this is fun money and if you arent in a class that you cant work up from then it is just not fun getting your but kicked every weekend,its like calling someone stupid,if you do it enough he starts to believe it!And Im coming from the other side, if been running oval from about 88 and I hold the track record at our track and Im not sponsored but I think with out a beginner class or sportmen or busch series or what ever you want to call it,we are going to loose racers,here in Houston we call busch and Winston,and we have more busch then winston,and we use a break out system.JM2C

rick i'm not sure why you are on here complaining about your "home" track?

i would contact the owner and discuss how you feel with him or her......

this is not how it is done where i race.....no one tells me what class i have to enter and no one tells the avg joes what class they need to enter either...all the heats are set up random and half the fun is helping the avg joe racer and racing him on the track.

complaining about your local track and how it runs it's racing program is unfair to the owner....UNLESS YOU HAVE TALKED IT OVER WITH HIM OR HER FIRST?

and yes "IF" there are enough entries to have a "pro" 17.5 class and a novice 17.5 class than i think that would be cool...if there is only 8 of you guys it doesn't make any sense to split up 8 racers.

Rick give me a call...... 603-540-2719 tonight, now , yesterday

Rick,

The reason for "stacked" heats is so everyone gets a cleaner run and doesn't break as much stuff. It benefits the faster guys because they don't have to slow down as much when coming up on slower cars. It also benefits slower cars because they don't have to move out of the groove every few laps.

Part of me agrees with you that some of the top guys should stay out of
17.5, on the other hand some run very good in 17.5 but struggle in 13.5 so I have mixed feelings.

By the way, heats were random at the snowbirds this year and I think most ended up where they would have been if the heats were stacked.

hmmmm that's enough for now.

-Tom........proud winner of Maximus East Coast oval champs 13.5 with my only 13.5 motor and battery I bought at Turn 4. :) Probobly will be in the C this time though.

-Tom........proud winner of Maximus East Coast oval champs 13.5 with my only 13.5 motor and battery I bought at Turn 4. :) Probobly will be in the C this time though.

I think i will be right behined you in the C also...... bring on the out of towners!

im not complaining about my home track, im stating the facts about racing in general. alot of the guys that love racing that i know are discouraged because nobody races to come in last. look i make the a almost every week and alot of the time i would rather race the b because i can actualy race with those guys. as far as sorting thats crap!!!!!! if the same five or six guys that run 60 laps are in the same heat every week but the guys that run 58 or 59 laps are with guys that run 48 laps how is that fair? im not saying that i want to be in the heat with the guys that run 60, i think they should have to run with the guys that run 48 just like everyone else. this is not an attack on Heath, he runs a great track and shop. i feel for him because you can never satisfy everyone!if your going to separate guys keep them totaly seperate. stock and pro stock. give the average racer a chance to win against the same level of compettition. i'm not a nascar fan so help me out with this analogy but i know that it's not working out to well having the cup guys win all the busch races or whatever its called now. as far as putting work in. all of the guys i know that race put in a lot of work thats why it sucks working on your car all week to go get your butt kicked.

Rick, My phone still isnt ringing with your number........ I have mad adhd to sit and write what I wanna say, so give me a jiggle I'll catch you on the Jangle....

Rick-

I understand where you are coming from, and it is a tough attitude to have. I know one of the people you are talking about it Hanson. He is the man up there. He is sponsored, and gets things a little cheaper I am sure. But to tell you the truth sponsored drivers now aren't really that big of a deal. We get just about the same stuff you do. Ask Hanson what tires he is running. Shoot he will probably give you a few to try. I run with Greg Honeycutt every week. Not to knock Hanson, but he is no Honeycutt. I look at it like a challenge. Last week I beat him. Next week he will probably beat me by 3 laps. That is just racing. JBR sells killer packs to everyone. BSR tires are available anywhere. They are the same for team drivers. I have raced at Maximus before, and it is a great place to race. Lots of fast people there, and most are really willing to help. I think Hanson has even built cars for people in the past (or at least helped out). Justin (JBR) is up there all the time too, and he is always willing to help. These guys aren't in it just to beat on the "Club Racer". These guys are running this class to get better so they dont get killed by others running this class at the Snowbirds. Get on the boards, ask questions, be the person to help the slower guys not the one complaining about others. Like I said in the begining, I understand what you are saying, but truth be told you can run as fast as those guys with 1 motor, a car off the wall, a batt purchsed from the case, and just 4 tires. Good luck and happy racing....


Joel White

rick,
they use to run pro stock and regular stock up there b4 brushless. when brushless started most of the faster guys went to 13.5 but got tired of their cars getting beat up and burning up tires. so they went back to 17.5.
if you are really running against 48 lap cars find out why they are only running 48 laps. this isnt an attack on you. maybe you do help maybe you dont. i for one help everyone i can. at my home track i help maybe 5 or 6 guys a night and it keeps things fun.
as far as the whole battery thing. if you remember just 2 weeks ago pesident hanson almost broke the 13.5 record with tom jones's battery.
i will not tell you battery is everything. but i will tell you your car is everything.

rick if you want any ideas on some other things to try please dont hesitate on stopping by.

alan behler

I have some advise: Race with the racers that are the same speed as you, beat them and don't worry about those Fast guys. You will have alot more fun at the track!



I do agree if a track is sorting, they should sort all the heats. I would rather see 3 lap qualifying, thats always fun.



Jimmy Flack

rick,
looking back at your lap times it shows you are not too far off. you have a few longer laps which shows me your car may be just a little off and maybe just more practice.

either way stop by i will be ther REALLY early friday morning

wow flack you really know how to edit yourself

lol

Well said Jimmy !!!!
When I get beat I work harder on my program. I evaluate my racing.
Winning isn't the whole game for me. Improving my lap times, getting the car better, beating a driver who I have'nt beat in a while. Little battles won will eventually win you the war. I have won a couple battles lately and it has paid off.Yesterday I won and TQ'd

look guys alot of you are missing my point, people want to do this as a hobby and race against other guys that do this as a hobby. its not about spending a shit ton of money to win the a every week, but who wants to make the a every week to get last place. i would rather race against people with my own skill level/budget. the guys kicking my ass dont want me in there way as much as i dont want to be in there way. as far as wanting to win the nats. in my first year thats crap. i wouldn,t even think of it, but if your satisfyed racing in the g main you must not be very competitive. i appreciate all the help from you guys that offer, hanson your the man . did your head just get even bigger?:)but whats wrong with haveing two groups for two skill levels? they do it in every form of sports in the world. baseball a,aa,aaa,majors etc. you get the point...as far as practice i probably practice at maximus as much anyone.

I think that everybody is mieeing the point,for one thing, I hear the B.S. hear
got to get ready for the Nats, got to get ready for the Snowbirds,and so on.
I race big races Im going to the carpet nats but what happens is we foreget the everyday club racer that couldnt care less about Nats Snow birds or what ever.I believe that all track shouhave a sports men class.The new guy cant get any better by having to move out of the way every 2 laps

JM2C

Why are all the fast guys running the slow class?:pJ/K


What is your 17.5 rules?

Jake

The only thing i am going to add to this is 17.5 is an entry level class!! Thats why im not running it at maximus! I agree there needs to be a class for the people just starting out and 17.5 shud prolly be it! IMO at club races at a track the size of maximus there should be 2 classes offered, 17.5 and 13.5! Get in where you fit in!!!!!

thank you mdunphy! i've seen at least five to ten guys come to maximus looking into this sport and they turn away because they don't want to spend $1,000 to race a toy car. and if they don't ponny up the $ they will come in last all the time. as for batts. i know that it's not all batt. but if you don't have fresh ones it is. hanson,behler,no offense or anything you guys are great but lets see you pull down 60 in 17.5 with my packs. (the slightly used 4200 with 4,000 runs on them)

Why are all the fast guys running the slow class?:pJ/K


What is your 17.5 rules?

Jake

Rick, first your running a car that nobody in the building is running....Ask Bud Smedburg how he all of a sudden picked up the lap he was missing...You have all the potential in the world to succeed...You need to focus on 1 class at a time and not run that 19T Truck if your gonna be succesful in 17.5..I am impressed by you for the little time you have in this hobby...Alot richer guys then you have come to Maximus and not done half as good as you...I am in my 3rd season now,In my first season I was no further ahead of where you are right now...It comes in time.Not just driving but your mind set and the way you go about tuning will change for the better with experience...Don't for one second think that people don't notice what you have accomplished in such a short time..Keep your head up and go kick some ass this weekend....If you think your ready for Heath to put you in the A-Heat go ask him to give you a shot for a few weeks,He will work with you....I ran in the "B" heat for a long time before I got my shot....Justin

thanks justin i appreciate all of your help this year man. we need more guys like you at the track. oh ya and hanson too!:freak:

Wow Rick you really stepped in a bucket full this time!!!

I really wish you had spoken to Heath in private instead of airing this out on the message board.

Heath does the best he can to try and keep everyone happy and for the most part I think he does an excellent job. Just remember when your dealing with the public, "You can keep most of the people happy most of the time but you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time", unfortunately for you, have ended up in the unhappy camp for right now.

I personally am very happy that Heath "Stacks"/ sorts the heats, I don't want to run against guys doing 60 laps in 17.5. I much perfer to run against other racers that are in the same lap range as I am. It enables me to have a little fun and trade a little paint and not spend 3 or 4 laps of every heat getting out of the way for the 60 lap guys.

Of course I'm a little older then you and I'm sure my views on life have change a little as I've gotten older, but I look at racing this way, sure it is great to "win" but what is "winning" to you? Does it have to be 1st place in the A-main or you've lost, if it is, then a lot of people go home very upset every week because there can only be one that is first in the A-main. I look at it this way, I always know what my personal best is, right now for me in 17.5 is 58 4:02, prior to last week it was 56 4:00, so at the end of the day I was happy. Heck I came in last in the B-Main but I walked out as happy as if I'd won the A-main. I guess it's all about prespective, how important is that trophy to you from The Iron Max, to me it's just one more thing to collect dust, I'm much more interested in seeing everyone and having some laughs, bacause in the end it's the good times that matter most in life and the friends we've made not the number of trophies and stuff we've collected when we go in the ground.

Do what you will, but if I were you, I'd talk to Heath if your unhappy, but most of all I'd end this Thread because this isn't good for Maximus, Heath, You or this hobby.

Tim Barnes

i just want to go to bust on hanson in the pits!!!

Please keep it in your pants Behler :) haha

Rick, in a way "Stacking" the heats is making a class within a class.....But you think it's unfair....I guess your saying is that you want the heats to be run like "Open Practice" then??? because that's just the way it would be...If people are 2 laps faster you'd have the "Potential" of getting run over twice in one race....Now, would that be fair to get your car destroyed twice in 1 race by faster cars, or would you rather be able to race, tradin' paint with alittle bumping with cars the same speed as you??????

Either way you want to let your frustrations digest, stop by, I'll round up 5 people at clip to help you with your car this weekend....if you want, I'll wheel it in all your races if it will make you feel less flustered....Don't keep a bad attitude about it though, it will make the hobby seem worse to you than what it is....None of us make a career out of this, and there aren't going to be people outside after the mains on Sunday looking to get our autographs...Well, maybe alittle press coverage for Hanson, after he's done calling everyone he knows, and posting on the internet before he leaves....

now bill dont be bitter just because he calls you last!!

I'll remember to delete your number Bill :) No worries, I'm all done racing after the Iron Maximus :thumbsup: Time to be a father for a while....

I'll pay you to delete my number....That would cost less than breaking my contract with the cell phone company to have it turned off.....:woohoo:

now thats funny right there!

The only thing i am going to add to this is 17.5 is an entry level class!! Thats why im not running it at maximus! I agree there needs to be a class for the people just starting out and 17.5 shud prolly be it! ...........

IAWTP.

you guys just don't get it. im not mad at heath, maximus, the guys doing 60 laps, 0r the guys doing 48 laps!!!!!!! I HAVE A GREAT TIME AT THE TRACK. MAXIMUS RULES, but if you want new people to get involved you have to give them a chance. what is the big deal we raced stock and pro stock last year and it worked out great. the real fast guys raced each other and the not so fast guys raced each other. it was nice to be competitave as well as looking forward to racing in pro stock when you could be competitave. i understand what your saying tim about not wanting to race with a guy doing 60 because you have to move over every 3-4 laps, well look at where i am everyweek in the mains. 2 laps off the pace. so should i sand bag every week so i can actualy race someone. i would have preffered to race in the b with you guys and come in fourth on the same lap as everyone else. i actually asked heath to move me down. i don't want to win, i wan't to actually race people not a stopwatch.

rick,
sorry to tell you if you are in the 58-59 lap range you shouldnt be in the "stock" class
going by what they use to do you would be in the pro stock class

The only thing i am going to add to this is 17.5 is an entry level class!! Thats why im not running it at maximus! I agree there needs to be a class for the people just starting out and 17.5 shud prolly be it! IMO at club races at a track the size of maximus there should be 2 classes offered, 17.5 and 13.5! Get in where you fit in!!!!!

No Frank/Jody grudge match?

No Frank/Jody grudge match?

nope

doug for some reason isnt going either

you guys just don't get it....

I think they get it, Rick... The tough spot that you are in, and believe me
I know all about it, is that you are a "tweener"...
You are at a stage where you have some good runs, and prove you should
not be in a Sportsman class, but aren't quite there to be a competitive
A mainer... The problem is more related to car count than anything..
This week's Iron Maximus race will prove that point..
Except for a couple of strange outcomes, you will find that the mains
you are in, should be very tough racing... because you will more than likely
be with guys that are within fractions of yourself..
There won't be any 60 lap guys in your main... Because there will be enough
of them to be in their own main.
Enough 59's to be in their own, and so on..

When you have only two or three mains on a weekly race, and 3 or 4 guys
that run 60 we'll say, then that means there will more than likely be a fast
58 guy in that A main.... and sometimes it's guys like us! "Tweeners"!

Whenever I make one, which isn't often, I still feel good about it, because
it means on that day, I beat the guys that I actually race with...
I don't race with guys like Hanson, or Justin, or Big Mike..
I might be on the track at the same time, but I'm not racing them...
I'm racing the guys that are consistently running the same lap counts as me..
the guys that are on average a couple of laps off the hotdogs...
I can deal with that, and you'll enjoy your racing a lot more if you
consider that perspective...:thumbsup:

Dan-

Perfect post. I hope everyone reads it.

Joel White

I Understand Both Side. I Have Only Been Racing For About 8 Months And I Guess I Am What You Call A Tweener Not A Consistant A Main Kind Of Guy But In The Upper End Of The B Mains But I Can Tell You This I Feel Like The King Of The Drivers Stand When I Do Make The A Main And I Am Standing Up There With The Best And I Hate To Tell You This Rick But If You Are Only 1 Or 2 Laps Of The Pace Thats Only One Wreck It Seems To Me That You Dont Have Enough Confidence In Your Ability Keep Your Head Up And Drive Your @$$ Off And You Will Be One Of Those Guys Runnig 60 Laps... A Stolen Phrase From The Movie "the Waterboy" You Can Do It,,, You Can Do It All Night Long!!!!

Rick,

If I run this weekend and I guess I have to now that I just ordered more tires (at full price no deal here) I'll only be doing one class. Come see me for some batteries I'll have extra. I should have extra time as well with only running one class. Maybe I can help you hit 60, maybe not, but I can try.

What I primarily run for batteries I purchased at the start of December. Try not to let the hype of what gets posted in the product support forums get to you. I've run back to back with packs you could never get in the hobby shop versus junk I beat down for months. The difference is a second or two.

The stock and pro stock deal wouldn't matter much for you as you definitely would belong in the prostock. Personally I think 17.5 should be for unsponsored drivers. Just my opinion.


See you Saturday.

Pat

So what do you do if you just don't have the time to maintenence your stuff properly anymore and you choose to run 17.5 because you just don't have the time?This whole deal is getting ridiculas with who should race what...NEW ENGLAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STOCK TYPE OF AREA........... Now with 13.5 in the mix ,The 4 19t drivers seems to try and throw it on you like drug dealers.....Move to where they race what you want,The last thing we need is those 4 premadonna's telling us what we need to race....

So what do you do if you just don't have the time to maintenence your stuff properly anymore and you choose to run 17.5 because you just don't have the time?This whole deal is getting ridiculas with who should race what...NEW ENGLAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STOCK TYPE OF AREA........... Now with 13.5 in the mix ,The 4 19t drivers seems to try and throw it on you like drug dealers.....Move to where they race what you want,The last thing we need is those 4 premadonna's telling us what we need to race....

CHERRYPICKER

$80 for tires you better get ahold of lefthander!!! Promatch has some awesome batteries. The more you buy the better batteries you get. This worked for me. I got 4th at the brl nats in 17.5 and im not sponsored. Steve Hanson can help you with set up. I know hes fast!!! Being unsponsored and smoking sponsored drivers is a blast!!!

CHERRYPICKER

premadonna

So what do you do if you just don't have the time to maintenence your stuff properly anymore and you choose to run 17.5 because you just don't have the time?This whole deal is getting ridiculas with who should race what...NEW ENGLAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STOCK TYPE OF AREA........... Now with 13.5 in the mix ,The 4 19t drivers seems to try and throw it on you like drug dealers.....Move to where they race what you want,The last thing we need is those 4 premadonna's telling us what we need to race....


Hmmm not sure if you were responding to me or not but.....

I personally don't care who runs what class. It is just my opinion that sponsored drivers shouldn't run 17.5. If somebody wants to run 17.5 for whatever reason then by all means run it if that's what floats your boat, just go buy your stuff in the hobbyshop for full price. I think that would be a reasonable compromise.

I don't think less of anyone who runs the class nor do I think who runs fast has anything to do with sponsorship. Especially since I have the record with a backup car I put together for someone else and no equipment on the car that I am sponsored for other than batteries which were my practice packs.

I do tend to think some of you guys are your own worst enemies when it comes to this "who runs what class stuff". Half the posts I see on the net are spent pushing this piece of equipment or that piece of equipment as a "must have" to win. Then when a guy reads that stuff and actually believes it the same people who are pushing the equipment get pissed off and tell him to work on his car. What do you guys expect?

Hmmm not sure if you were responding to me or not but.....

I personally don't care who runs what class. It is just my opinion that sponsored drivers shouldn't run 17.5. If somebody wants to run 17.5 for whatever reason then by all means run it if that's what floats your boat, just go buy your stuff in the hobbyshop for full price. I think that would be a reasonable compromise.

I don't think less of anyone who runs the class nor do I think who runs fast has anything to do with sponsorship. Especially since I have the record with a backup car I put together for someone else and no equipment on the car that I am sponsored for other than batteries which were my practice packs.

I do tend to think some of you guys are your own worst enemies when it comes to this "who runs what class stuff". Half the posts I see on the net are spent pushing this piece of equipment or that piece of equipment as a "must have" to win. Then when a guy reads that stuff and actually believes it the same people who are pushing the equipment get pissed off and tell him to work on his car. What do you guys expect?
your still a punk Simkins....Your going down punk....Just trying to get a rise out of ya.... Punkboy....

and smoking

:wave::dude: Enough Jenzo, Sonny B has made enough jokes on that subject. lmao.

premadonna

...sorry, try again.

Prima donna

Sponsorship shouldn't depict class...only talent and program :thumbsup:
Unless you're sponsored directly by Novak...we'll see some of those this weekend. :rolleyes: