I am wondering if some one knows how the fuel / oil is mixed at a QSAC event, I guess what I mean is at what ratio and do they use VP C-16 and Amsoil Saber?

Dave D

3oz to 1gallon

At Easley we used VP C-16 and amsoil Saber and mixed it 3oz to the Gallon.:thumbsup:We didn't have any problems with fuel at this race.I am wondering if some one knows how the fuel / oil is mixed at a QSAC event, I guess what I mean is at what ratio and do they use VP C-16 and Amsoil Saber?

Dave D

Thanks that is how I will mix mine!!!....

DD

True that, 3oz to 1 gal. for all NCS races. The manufacture recomends 1 or 1.5 oz's to 1 gal. fuel, most folks use about 2 oz per gal for the local races.

Keep this in mind. The more oil you add per gallon the "leaner" the fuel mix actually is. THAT IS IF YOU KEEP THE JET THE SAME.

Keep this in mind. The more oil you add per gallon the "leaner" the fuel mix actually is. THAT IS IF YOU KEEP THE JET THE SAME.
Very good point scott.

......

General rule that I use is that the more RPM that you turn requires more oil however, the less oil means better performance but you have to replace the ring more often.

Its seems that when I tear down motors that have 40 to 50:1 (sabr oil) there is little sludge and no burnt marks on the piston skirt. More oil in general causes that to happen in the motor.

You also have to figure in the carb settings/jets or whether the motor is sealed tight that makes a lean conditon.

Just my thoughts.

Mike
willmannracingproducts.com

General rule that I use is that the more RPM that you turn requires more oil however, the less oil means better performance but you have to replace the ring more often.

Its seems that when I tear down motors that have 40 to 50:1 (sabr oil) there is little sludge and no burnt marks on the piston skirt. More oil in general causes that to happen in the motor.

You also have to figure in the carb settings/jets or whether the motor is sealed tight that makes a lean conditon.

Just my thoughts.

Mike
willmannracingproducts.com

So, Are you saying that 3 oz of Saber is good, or bad for our use?

this what happened to me last race 2 cars running same mix 3oz of saber 1 gallon of fuel one smoked very bad the other blew out a ton of oil makeing a big mess one had less gear the other had more gear

the color of the plugs was paper sack brown but had a layer of looked like kentucky fried chicken crust

the color of the plugs was paper sack brown but had a layer of looked like kentucky fried chicken crust

You didn't eat it did you? :freak:


Btw - was it the same plug # in both?...and was one a black cap and the other red?

same number plug both red caps with same amount of runtime or 2nd race on both 1 was a wrp motor the other one came in the car both motors ran fast and didnt do anything out of the ordanary other than smoke and blow oil and no i did not think it would be finger licken good LOL

this what happened to me last race 2 cars running same mix 3oz of saber 1 gallon of fuel one smoked very bad the other blew out a ton of oil makeing a big mess one had less gear the other had more gear

My personal motors i run 2 1/2 oz of oil to a gal. Saber by specs says that this oil can be used up 100:1 I know some guys that use this type of mixture but they have to re-ring. Me? i don't think i want to try that.

same number plug both red caps with same amount of runtime or 2nd race on both 1 was a wrp motor the other one came in the car both motors ran fast and didnt do anything out of the ordanary other than smoke and blow oil and no i did not think it would be finger licken good LOL

Give me a call or i can call you to sort out this oil thing.

My personal motors i run 2 1/2 oz of oil to a gal. Saber by specs says that this oil can be used up 100:1 I know some guys that use this type of mixture but they have to re-ring. Me? i don't think i want to try that.my normal mix that i have run is 70 to 80:1 i ran all last year no problem no smoke no oil you only need enough oil to lube the motor i will switch back to my regular mix for my regular races i dont want a oily mess every week:thumbsup:

my normal mix that i have run is 70 to 80:1 i ran all last year no problem no smoke no oil you only need enough oil to lube the motor i will switch back to my regular mix for my regular races i dont want a oily mess every week:thumbsup:

On my WRP motor I use a break-in oil. I don't trust the dry start of a motor. They smoke heavy for awhile until it's all burn up inside so you will have a rich motor when it comes to the oil mixture.
Let me know how it works out

Mike
www.willmannracingproducts.com

Correct me if I'm wrong.....

There are two different types or ratios of oil.

Regular ,I think its 40:1, Like Penzoil marine...chain saw oil at Home Depot....etc.

Full Synthetic 100:1 (Amzoil....Saber, Dominator).

They Mix Different! Amzoil 100:1 is 2 - 2.5 per gallon
Penzoil 40:1 is 3-3.5 per gallon.

I dont think you would ever want to run 3oz of Saber/Dom per gallon.

Now this is coming from 7 years of RC gas Heli's....in which we run Camper Fuel and Amzoil @ 2 oz per gallon (231 PUH). 11K RPM

Heck,
I run some camper fuel in my Quarter Scale before. It runs great if the weather is cool.:thumbsup:
Just don't hold a lighter at the exhaust wile it is running. It will become a torch.:freak:
Correct me if I'm wrong.....

There are two different types or ratios of oil.

Regular ,I think its 40:1, Like Penzoil marine...chain saw oil at Home Depot....etc.

Full Synthetic 100:1 (Amzoil....Saber, Dominator).

They Mix Different! Amzoil 100:1 is 2 - 2.5 per gallon
Penzoil 40:1 is 3-3.5 per gallon.

I dont think you would ever want to run 3oz of Saber/Dom per gallon.

Now this is coming from 7 years of RC gas Heli's....in which we run Camper Fuel and Amzoil @ 2 oz per gallon (231 PUH). 11K RPM

Disruptor --

Yes and no. Mostly no. There are infinate ratio of oil-to-fuel mix.

Most 2Xcc and 3Xcc engine manufacturers recommend a ratio of 32:1 or 40:1, this is mainly to make sure the general public does not sieze up their yard tools and the carbs are tuned to this ratio.


THE ONLY OIL ON THE MARKET THAT STATES 100:1 IS AMSOIL SABRE. If you try to run Dominator at this ratio you WILL NOT be getting the proper lubrication. Sabre is formulated to lubricate properly at a ratio of 100:1, Dominator was developed to be mixed up to 50:1, no higher.

I fully trust the Sabre at 50:1 and have seen it mixed at 100:1 with no problems. Now this was in PocketBikes. But take this into consideration. On a PocketBike we had 39cc engines from 4.2hp up to about 11hp. They had 14mm - 21mm carbs tuned pipes, were on bikes that weighed 30+ pounds and were carrying riders in excess of 200lbs and we were going 50-60MPH. Every engine I ever tore down using Amsoil looked great. The Sabre would leave less buildup than the Dominator.

IMHO 3oz to a gallon is WAY TOO MUCH Sabre, that is over 50:1, actually it is 42.6667:1. I do not think that these engines require that much lubrication. I also think that you will be prone to more engine failures from running the engines leaner. I certainly think you will go through more plugs and have more fouling trouble running this much oil.

I was an Amsoil Dealer when we had our shop and it was the only oil we used in our race bikes.

My .02, hope this is of some help to you guys.

3oz. my be to much. When we tore my engine down at Easley it was full of oil in the crankcase. We could get by with2.5oz. per gallon.
I will check into that and see if we can get something done about it by the next QSAC race at Indy.

50:1 is 2.56 ounces per gallon. PLENTY to provide sufficient lubrication to these engines. I wonder where/who came up with the 3oz. mix?

In year's past it was 2 oz per gallon using the old, original 100:1 Amsoil (prior to Saber and Dominator)

Then it went to 2 1/2 oz per gallon... (with the introduction to Dominator, but not Saber at the time)

NOW we're up to 3 oz per gallon (and we're using a far superior oil today).

The 2 1/2 oz per gallon seems a lot more realistic, especially with the introduction to Saber from Amsoil.

Joe
:thumbsup:

Due to the radical temp change and track size throughout the NCS season, I think QSAC's ruling is probably what keeps every racer's engine safe. Besides, everyone is running from the same batch at an NCS anyway. No disadvantage to one over the other. :)

Due to the radical temp change and track size throughout the NCS season, I think QSAC's ruling is probably what keeps every racer's engine safe. Besides, everyone is running from the same batch at an NCS anyway. No disadvantage to one over the other. :)i dont know about the safe part mine has been handed back in a box 2 out of 3 times LOL

i dont know about the safe part mine has been handed back in a box 2 out of 3 times LOL

Ohhhh yeah!!

Now we know the real reason behind the mix. It is to make it easier to tear Willy's engine down. If they reduce the oil, those bolt might be a bit stubborn, with all that oil, everything should stay slicked up.

:cool:

Scott

My Bad...I didn't realize Dominator wasn't 100:1.....I've always used Saber.

My main point .......One of the common problems with mixing is not understanding that Amz Saber is mixed less oz per gallons than say echo or penz. I've seen where a lot of newbies grab the Saber and mix using the other ratio like the 3 or 3 1/2 to a gallon and wonder why it smokes too much and doesn't run real well.....gooky plug and oil spit all over from the exhaust.

I do agree that 2 1/2 mix using Saber, at the big races is a good thing for all the racers....it will supply plenty of lubrication and keeps the field equal.

Tanner -- After rereading my post, I hope it did not come across as me being a smarta$$. That was NOT my intention. I only wanted to get the info I knew out about the oil.

With all the quarterscalers popping up around here, I may just have to become a dealer again.

Get some of that Texas crew out here to LPR and come race with us. It is a GREAT track and if you can put up with Willy the people are great too!! Just Kiddin' ya Will!

Tanner -- After rereading my post, I hope it did not come across as me being a smarta$$. That was NOT my intention. I only wanted to get the info I knew out about the oil.

No...No....No, not at all Scott. I think it's great information. Dude...I hope my reply didn't sound that way. I'm the one that goes....."Now how much do I mix with this?"...I'll admit I've never been good with the ratios.

Can't travel much this year but would love to hit some other tracks. LPR is at the top of the list.:thumbsup:

And if you do become a Dealer again, let us know.....I run Amzoil in everything....weedeater....blower....etc.

Cool!

Do you have a Ratio-Rite mixing cup. If not go to your local Cycle Shop and ask for one. Those things are the greatest things since sliced bread.

Cool!

Do you have a Ratio-Rite mixing cup. If not go to your local Cycle Shop and ask for one. Those things are the greatest things since sliced bread.

Yes, and you are absolutely right. I need to study a few more columns on that cup.

Cool!

Do you have a Ratio-Rite mixing cup. If not go to your local Cycle Shop and ask for one. Those things are the greatest things since sliced bread.mixing cup? LOL that is for makeing bread marks on the bottle are good enough

Guess it just depends if you want it right or "good enough".

Yep I got two left over from my Suzuki, 2 stroke days. The oil to gas ratios are right on the cup. Hard to screw up when it's right in front of you.

3oz. my be to much. When we tore my engine down at Easley it was full of oil in the crankcase. We could get by with2.5oz. per gallon.
I will check into that and see if we can get something done about it by the next QSAC race at Indy.


Jeff, after the Easley race a few motors came in for rebuilds including my own motors and I found that the crankcase's are filled with oil, in fact a few had stuck rings in them and burnt skirts on the piston. However, no carbon build up in the head/piston area and no bearing problems as i see.
I think the oil ratio is off.

Let me know what you find out at the next QSAC race.

Mike
www.willmannracingproducts.com

Where can one buy a fuel sniffer?

http://www.cometkartsales.com/store/gauges/fueltestor.htm

Where can one buy a fuel sniffer?if you pay the 500 bucks i will start buying higher octane so you can get your moneys worth checking it LOL

Thanks Scott.

Not looking for octane.if you pay the 500 bucks i will start buying higher octane so you can get your moneys worth checking it LOL

Mike I talked to Randy Brown and we think 2oz. per gallon is plenty. I ran today with the 2oz. and all is well. The engine performed good and the car is alot cleaner. Just had to lean the carb. out a little. We will talk about the change next week and see how it goes.:thumbsup:Jeff, after the Easley race a few motors came in for rebuilds including my own motors and I found that the crankcase's are filled with oil, in fact a few had stuck rings in them and burnt skirts on the piston. However, no carbon build up in the head/piston area and no bearing problems as i see.
I think the oil ratio is off.

Let me know what you find out at the next QSAC race.

Mike
www.willmannracingproducts.com (http://www.willmannracingproducts.com)

Just do what we did at Clover this year and start runnig Track Fuel. That will take care of any fuel problems you guys have.:thumbsup:
Hope to get down to race with you in a few weeks.
Not looking for octane.

What kind of problems did yall have?Just do what we did at Clover this year and start runnig Track Fuel. That will take care of any fuel problems you guys have.:thumbsup:
Hope to get down to race with you in a few weeks.

Octane is not the problem when checking fuels. ;)

Additives are and I am not talking about the "octane booster" garbage at the auto parts store.

Also having the ABILITY to check fuel is a deterrent in itself.

Some of the guys were making their own fuel mix at home and you could smell it. The track fuel is the way to go if you have a problem. I'm no angle, I've been known to mix a little myself;). But it better if everyone has the same fuel. Makes it even for everyone.What kind of problems did yall have?

No need to mix it yourself. VP makes some really nice fuels and they already have it figured out. Then you only have to tune the engine to it.

BUT, I agree. If you have track fuel, it eliminates all the weirdness that CAN go on.

But would racers ever do such a thing? :D

I dont know if we have any fuel problems at the track?


My request was for personal use. I fly r/c planes and have several gallons of fuel left over from a few years back and needed to know if they are still usable. The last two flights I had resulted in deadstick landings with the last one causing some damage. I think I have bad fuel?! I wanted to test it but had no idea the testers would cost so much!

Thanks anyway

Yep, I've smelt that before too.Some of the guys were making their own fuel mix at home and you could smell it. The track fuel is the way to go if you have a problem. I'm no angle, I've been known to mix a little myself;). But it better if everyone has the same fuel. Makes it even for everyone.

I dont know if we have any fuel problems at the track?


My request was for personal use. I fly r/c planes and have several gallons of fuel left over from a few years back and needed to know if they are still usable. The last two flights I had resulted in deadstick landings with the last one causing some damage. I think I have bad fuel?! I wanted to test it but had no idea the testers would cost so much!

Thanks anyway

Tim,
If the cans were stored correctly there should not be a problem but that depends on the fuel manufacturer. While flying R/C & Control line I've used Sig & Powermaster and have stored both up to 12 months with out a problem. I Ihave several articles that deal with checking for bad fuel and I'll find them and make you a copy.