Anybody care to get to the bottom of just where exactly the exterior design of the Nostromo came from? Ron Cobb and Chris Foss appear on the credits, but too often when you see or read anything about the making of 'Alien', you'll find the assertion that Chris Foss's designs for the Nostromo were 'unused'. Often Cobb is given sole credit or Scott and his model builders for coming up with the final design.

But... I've yet to see a single Cobb drawing that resembles the ship, with the possible exception of a vessel bearing the inscription 'Snark', which resembles it vaguely only in terms of the basic configuration. The forms are all smooth and streamlined, and bear no similarity to the massive box-like forms seen in the final design.

However, Foss's designs for the film abound with these forms, and not only that, there is a sketch showing a much closer basic configuration than Cobb's. All these sketches can be seen in 'The Book of Alien' by Scanlon and Gross.

One sketch shows the huge module which sits on the Notromo's topside (in the sketch, it sits on top of a snake-like space-train). The module is complete with the same two giant 'intakes', has practically the same cross-section and even the flaps at the rear. It seems clear Scott wanted this part built verbatim from Foss's vision.

Another drawing has roughly the same configuration as the final design, and appears to be the source for the central hull section, which is the same length and thickness, slopes at the same point to the same degree and features a practically identical cross-section (this ship can be identified by the legend 'Fountain Line' emblazoned down its side).
If you take the central hull from the above drawing, stick the module from the first on its back, go with the configuration of that second drawing, but enlarge the two flanking forms by replacing them with massive box-like engines (to be seen in any number of Foss's other drawings for the film) you're practically there.

Those flanking engines in fact appear to have been taken from the two cavernous box-forms in Foss's alien temple design; they have virtually the same cross-section (note the rounded off corners and edges)and feature the same down-slope to the openings/intakes.

Seems to me that Scott rejected Cobb, not Foss, and had his team put the Nostromo together in something like the way I've outlined, then added the final 20%. Perhaps Cobb was responsible for the cabin exterior section - though I've never seen any design sketches anywhere for this part of the ship, and in any case it looks like a Bower/Pearson effort.

I thought I'd stand guardian for Foss's reputation here because he seems to be something of a neglected genius these days, and this kind of misinformation doesn't help.

I haven't seen either drawing, so can't say. I remember a story that Martin Bower put together a quick model to show investors that looked like the final Nostromo.

I agree with you that the details of the Foss pictures more closely resemble the actual miniature but I think that the very fact that Foss gets a credit at all in the movie is testament to the influence of his designs.
I think the stories of his designs being "rejected" simply come from there being no pre-production sketches or paintings that match the ship seen on film.
This is a sharp contrast to a film like Star Wars where the ships bear a close resemblance to the Ralph McQuarrie paintings.
I imagine the model shop on Alien drew inspiration from the concept drawings and combined many features into a buildable miniature.
As I understand it, Ridley Scott also had a huge amount of input into the look of the Nostromo. A lot of detail was added after the original ship was constructed including the upper engine section and the bridge section.
The original colour,incidentally, was yellow with large Foss-like markings along the sides. The grey scheme was decided on after initial filming took place which led to a lot of subtle panelling detail being lost.
A similar fate befell the refinery on Outland, also a Bower piece, which was resprayed overnight by the set decorators using an industrial spraygun...

This is a sharp contrast to a film like Star Wars where the ships bear a close resemblance to the Ralph McQuarrie paintings.



I was under the impression that with some of McQuarries stuff he was working from designs and models that already existed. That's why the production paintings match so well...

Jim

OK maybe so but you know what I mean. Another example is Syd Mead's paintings for Blade Runner. He did the original paintings then helped produce blueprints for the set designers and modelmakers to work from.

Yeah, for Blade Runner the paintings came first.

Thanks, Miniature Sun, for the info about the original Foss-type paint-job. I never knew that before. I always wanted to see a movie starship dressed in a Foss livery. It still remains to be done. If only Jodorowsky's Dune hadn't got squashed by Hollywood execs...

For anyone interested in the sketches I mentioned I've posted them below.

I feel a bit sorry for Foss. A large and quite famous painting he did for 'Alien' of the Nostromo (the long orange platypus-looking Leviathan) recently sold for only around a thousand pounds. I get more than that for my paintings and I'm a complete nobody for God's sake.

I think I may have some pics of the yellow livery somewhere so I'll try and get them up.
Something else Foss related was a TV ad about a year ago for 3G phones which had buildings launching into space...whoever designed them was obviously a Foss fan...

I'd love to see those pics if you can manage it. Cheers.

I always wanted to see a movie starship dressed in a Foss livery. It still remains to be done.

The colorfully organic ships of Babylon 5 being the closest examples I can think of.

^ True: the yellow Vorlons and red Narn cruisers, yeah.

The colorfully organic ships of Babylon 5 being the closest examples I can think of.

Yeah, I forgot them. The reason I forgot about them was that the cg looked too fake to me and so I never tuned in again after the first episode. It was nice to see the Foss colour influence, though.

Yeah, I forgot them. The reason I forgot about them was that the cg looked too fake to me and so I never tuned in again after the first episode.

^Your HUGE loss, my friend.

^Your HUGE loss, my friend.

I never could get into the series either. I gave it PLENTY of chances all along its run as well.

I still think some of the equipment and ships were neat. The earth fighter ships were pretty cool and the other earth ships were pretty neat. I didn't get into the alien ships much, however.

I never could get into the series either. I gave it PLENTY of chances all along its run as well.


Ah, there's the problem. I tried that approach and never much liked what I saw. Now I'm a true believer.

It may look like a regular tv show, but it's really an epic novel for tv. Think Shogun, only spread over five years.

It also helps to think of it as one of those books where you may not like the author's prose at times, but the story is a complete winner. I feel that way about Tolkien and his Lord of the Rings - love the story but the books are a hassle to get through.





Ahem. Some of those designs in the Book of Alien would make great scratchbuilt ships. (comment thrown in for the topic squad).

Some of those designs in the Book of Alien would make great scratchbuilt ships. (comment thrown in for the topic squad).

Thanks for that little on-topic moment there, but I guess no one's much interested in talking about Foss anyway. Might as well hand the thread over to the Babylon 5ers...

Thanks for that little on-topic moment there, but I guess no one's much interested in talking about Foss anyway. Might as well hand the thread over to the Babylon 5ers...


Actually, I've been wanting to do both a Snark and one of the Foss caterplllar ships for some time, but scratchbuilding is something I've never done before.

If I ever get through correcting the FM Falcon, I think I'd like a go at scratchbuilding a Foss ship. Applying a lot of yellow and black gloss stripes, then adding in all those tiny little dots would make a nice change from the usual off-white greebly stuff.

I've always considered the Nostromo the only Chris Foss design ever to make it into a movie...