I am looking for NOVAK rotors in stock , I bought two new ones and they were less than my orginal rotors ..Please let me know who has rotors in stock .... SRM

hey racket

r these spoda make your car drive better?

love
fred

Yes I have found that inductance is not as much of an issue as a good rotor will..... Of the two new ones bought they have a reading of less than 1100 Good rotors are over 1300 .... Miss ya FRED see ya in Florida in less than 4 weeks ...... SRM

http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=50&products_id=1047

Hi HArs Jr , Have you had any readings on these and when did you recieve the rotors ... Thanks SRM

Steve,
Not sure exactly, havent heard anybody say anything bad about them though. They were from about a month ago.

Hays can you meter them for me then send me the best one.JK:p

Jake

Was wondering when this type of thing was going to come up with brushless racing, we've all known for a while that team drivers get the better batteries , but now there will be another huge advantage, in my opinion anyways. How are we going to prevent or make sure that we all have the capability to get equal rotors???

..............

Anybody talk to Novak about the variation in rotors? From under 1100 to over 1300 is like a 20% variation in strength. That doesn't seem like an acceptable manufacturing tolderance. I wonder if Novak is getting the rotor magnets from different manufacturers and one makes much stronger magnets than the other(s).

Anybody talk to Novak about the variation in rotors? From under 1100 to over 1300 is like a 20% variation in strength. That doesn't seem like an acceptable manufacturing tolderance. I wonder if Novak is getting the rotor magnets from different manufacturers and one makes much stronger magnets than the other(s).

The standard tolerance for the Br of magnet material is +/-5%. That is just for the material alone. Now factor in the dimensional tolerances which are going to be another couple percent and you're right around around the +/-8.3% you showed above (1100-1300). That is just the reality of manufacturing magnets, which is part of what I used to do.

Now lets factor in the measurement error. A given Zubak meter on it's own is capable of giving very repeatable measurements. BUT the way you guys use them is a terrible measurement method and isn't remotely repeatable.

Also, comparing one meter to another isn't very valuable. Which isn't a knock on Zubaks unit, it's just the way it is. Even the meters that cost over a thousand dollars are not consistent from unit to unit, or more accurately the probes aren't.

I don't have a Zubie meter but I do have a meter that will do the same thing.

pmsimkins point about repeatability is the most important part of the deal.

I've tested about 15 different rotors with my meter. Every one I could get my hands on for this exact purpose - to try to establish a base line. I have found that most of them were very close to one another. Although, I did find one that had a pretty big number by comparison.
I'm not going to jump on the "my rotor is better than your rotor" bandwagon.
Unless you are the best driver with the best car racing with the rest of the best drivers with the best cars.... +/-95% of us won't be able to tell the difference between a "so called" good one and a "dud".

So, if the fast guys are getting "good" rotors I can only suggest that the rest of us need to step up our game to catch them. Then, we will deserve to get a "good" one from the manufacturer. As if.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii100/OvalTrucker/14a.gif

...................

I agree. And I was joking.
I didn't express the humor very well from the keyboard.:o
We certainly deserve the best product a manufacturer can produce. And they know we'll pay for it!

It would be great if the tolerances within all of our motors, rotors, and esc's could be close enough to be undetectable on the track. And honestly, at the level I race at I'm not sure I could see a difference with the way things are now! I don't get to race every week. When I do race I generally only have enough practice time to get my car setup for the current track conditions. I don't get much time to experiment with rotors and motors and such. That may disqualify my credibility on this issue. I consider myself to be at least average in terms of competition. Above average in terms of long-windedness!

I regularly [club] race with a Novak sponsored driver. And he is fast. But the difference between him and I is not the rotor or ESC. He is a chassis guru, unbelievable driver, and goes racing almost every weekend all year long.

My point was that the majority of the brushless racers [myself included] have bigger fish to fry that worry about getting a good rotor. Also, I don't know that the sponsored drivers are getting cherry-picked rotors.
While that may be a fair assumption, I would doubt if that is the only [or best] reason they are fast. Part of the "package"? Heck Yea! But, we all know the whole package has gotta be there if you wanna make the show!

Excuse me while I catch my breath:)

What I would like to see is at the next major race, after qualifying sets the mains, have the A Main guys switch motors with the guys who qualified at the bottom. Then see what happens.

Ovaltrucker Can you share what you use for a guass meter .... HAys I will call oyu otomorrow nad place an order how many do you have in stock .SRM

What I would like to see is at the next major race, after qualifying sets the mains, have the A Main guys switch motors with the guys who qualified at the bottom. Then see what happens.

I'm guessing you agree with this, but I'd bet any amount of money that absolutely nothing happens. Same as when you see a fast and slow guy switch motors, speedos, batteries or anything else. I've seen that proven many times over the years.

Steve, you have a PM.

What I would like to see is at the next major race, after qualifying sets the mains, have the A Main guys switch motors with the guys who qualified at the bottom. Then see what happens.

An A main driver is an A main driver. I don't think switching rotors around will take care of a 5 lap spread between the A main and the Q main???

I agree, but maybe it would prove to some of these guys who keep complaining that it is driving and set up....IMOAn A main driver is an A main driver. I don't think switching rotors around will take care of a 5 lap spread between the A main and the Q main???

look at the top 10 at the birds in both 13.5 and 10.5

DO YOU SEE ANY WEIRD NAMES RUNNING UP FRONT?

IF JOE PUBLIC RACER HAD A 1400 ROTOR AND 1.285 CELLS IN HIS SLED IT WON'T PUT HIM UP FRONT!

WORK ON YOUR CARS!

yea and if the top 10 had 1.175 cells and 19.3 motors they wouldn't be in the top 10.

Goes both ways.......but I get what your saying.

I understand also,just was hoping to ba able to get the same chance to pay for the same product that others are getting. Believe that this could be part of the problem with low car counts at some tracks. Besides fuel prices that is, you feel like you've already been beat because you can't buy the same stuff as someone else is getting.

Was wondering when this type of thing was going to come up with brushless racing, we've all known for a while that team drivers get the better batteries , but now there will be another huge advantage, in my opinion anyways. How are we going to prevent or make sure that we all have the capability to get equal rotors???

My motor was a hand me down, I’ve had that thing close to 200 degrees on a few occasions. I’ve never oiled the bearings, never changed the rotor. Never massed with the timing. There’s enough foam inside my motor to build a tire. My batteries # after a cycle is a joke. The packs were given to me as a hand me down in the fall. I’m guessing they were new at the beginning of last summer. O yea and there only 4200. Even with my older motor/batteries, when my car set-up is on, IT"S ON! I can hang with the best of them. Regardless of rotor numbers or batt numbers.

I barrowed a friends "Good Packs" for 2 weeks over the winter. At my local track and set a track record with a 74 4.00.??? , after that I went back to my crap packs and with 1 tire compound change I was able to run a 75 4.00.???
NEW batts and NEW rotors are only going to help as much as your set-up will allow it.
The days of buying new packs and motors just to get fast is long gone. IMO
I love brushless racing. It’s not about who has the newest this or that. It’s about who can set-up there car the best. And set-up is free, and everyone can afford free. Don’t get me wrong, if I was going to a big race and felt the need to get a new pack or 2 I'm sure I would. But I know getting new pack is NOT going to put me in the A-Main. It will take a good set-up to do that.
JMO
Brian Cook

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No... but it may put the guy that qualified 4th in the B-main,
into the last spot in the A-main!!



zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................
I think everyone has heard that about a billion times now.
And almost everyone understands that the car is important.
But AS important, is gaining 1 second in a four minute race,
when you are at the top of the sport.
Or, more accurately, at the top of your particular grouping.

Just as the better pack, and motor, won't guarantee you A-mains,
neither will the greatest car in the world put you in the A,
if you are a C or D driver...

It also could mean that you are starting 2 positions closer to the
TQ guy... which is another 6-8 feet or so that you don't have to make
up, and two cars that you don't have to pass....

WE ALL KNOW.... work on your cars....
But for Kripes', will people stop downplaying
the importance of good stuff!!
The whole package is important.
Let's not kid ourselves.

Not arguing, I’m just debating.:)

You can have the best batteries, you can have the newest rotor and it won't do anything if your set-up won't allow it. I am a huge believer in this... sorry to use names here but this is a perfect example.
A few weeks ago I was lucky, and nailed the SET-UP on the head. With my 9 month old ib4200's and my old school 13.5 w/ sintered rotor new as of 06-01-07, I was able to run 73 laps at tri-clone. I think the only other guy to do that and it was done that week was Cory heft. He ran a 73 4.00.??? "Also new track record”, I ran a 73 4.03.???... Our fast laps were less than .050 apart. If Cory drove my car I think he would have turned a 74, maybe?. If I could drive as good as him I could of took at least another second or 2, maybe more off of my time. It’s hard to think that if I had new packs that I could have gone faster than 74 laps.
ok, give me a brand new ib4600 and MABEY I could of gone a little faster, but that’s only because I had my set-up perfect, and there would of been a lot of other things I would have to do right to even be able to see an advantage to that new pack.
The thing I think hurts the hobby is people thinking they are getting beat because "he's a sponcered driver, and I can't beat him" "he has money or sponsorship so he has better batteries/ motors / chassis / whatever. Than me. I’ve hears racers say this. I’ve even thought like this at one point in the beginning of my RC career. It’s not true. Any racer can be beat…
My point to all this is that even with the best rotor # and "sponsored" batteries to see an advantage, so many other things have to be right first.
There is a difference between junk and top notch but there is a huge grey area that can be just as competitive. Once you've used something 1 time, it's in the grey area to me. A few points on the zubie meter or a 10th of a volt is NOTHING. It’s not why the fast guys are fast. I proved that to myself when I was on the same pace as one of the immortal at tri-clone. At the end of that day I lost because he out drove me... Nothing more….. I’ll get him next time.

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No... but it may put the guy that qualified 4th in the B-main,
into the last spot in the A-main!!



Hey at the birds that was me! LOL

But I wasn't in th b for lack of equipment, I was there for lack of setup skill. LOL

Okay, I'll let you guys argue some more. :p

-Adam Liehr

My post was more intended for guys who have been running rotors for a long time and I really think that my motor was still fast .... We opened 2 new rotors and they guassed very low ,Just wanted to make sure it wasnt that way for all new rorots out there .....

You cant shoot a bullet from a canoe ..... Better car and driver equals WINS .....

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The key to this discussion/argument is perspective.

First off, perspective on the tolerances involved in making a magnet that all stack up into what the final product has for strength. That is what my original post was about.

Secondly, perspecitve on the advantage a stronger magnet gives you. In my opinion the advantage is small if you're comparing two magnets that are both acceptable, i.e. not broken, damaged, demagnetized etc.

Think about this for a seond. Without knowing the exact grades of material Novak uses I'd take a guess that the Br (strength) of the sintered rotor is about 3.5x stronger than the bonded rotor. Lets say that translates to the sintered rotor being 200% stronger across the air gap we have in the motor.

That 200% equals about a .1 a lap, give or take, or about a lap and a half to two laps at most carpet tracks. Now lets compare that to having one sintered rotor that is 10% stronger than another. So, if 200% stronger equals .1 a lap then 10% stronger might equal .005 a lap. .005 a lap over a 65 lap race is .325 seconds.

Now I just made a ton of assumptions, but this is just food for thought.

So in the end I think both Dan and Brian are right. Dan is fundamentally right in that an advantage is an advantage and I have certainly been to races where .33 seconds did actually matter. On the flip side more practically Brian is right in that I have been to very few club races where .33s mattered at all. And even if it did I'd just be excited to actually have a club race that is that close, win or lose.

So if somebody gave me a free .33 seconds I'd sure as heck take it, but if I have to spend hundreds of dollars for that .33 seconds not a chance would I do that. I'll just make sure my setup is .34 seocnds better than the guy with all the rotors. Like everything else though that is a decison each racer can make for themselves.

Pat...another great post. I think I just shed a tear!. :cry:

Myself...I'd change a tire or a spring long before a rotor.

Pat...another great post. I think I just shed a tear!. :cry:

You know me, always trying to bring people together! LOL

You know me, always trying to bring people together! LOL
....and displaying pride for Wisconsin. :)

Hi Pat very well said . I am sure that you would have liked to have that extra at Marshalls the last time we raced .... Hope to see you again racing in the neighborhood again soon SRM

I am sure that you would have liked to have that extra at Marshalls the last time we raced

Not really, what I would have liked was all my front end parts pointing the right directions. After about the 10th practice crash with 17.5s, 12th scales, mini-Ts, off road trucks etc I needed to replace a few things.

You guys should come up to Maximus in April for the big race. Frank is going :)

The key to this discussion/argument is perspective.

Although I agree with your post Pat, I think the "Key" is that Miller asked who had freakin rotors in stock, then ANOTHER thread got hijacked and now is full of the same repetitive crap that's every single other thread.....:cool:

I removed all of my posts to this thread, and apologize to all of those disturbed
by the digression from the original topic.

just some info to pass on...

the annual speedway spectacular is this weekend..mike bean pre teched our motors..he did this with a zubie meter and a inductance meter...we could only tech one motor for the entire weekend...if he tested 30 10.5 motors almost everyone of them were very close...

rotors went from 1150 up to 1310
inductance was 34-36 ranges

a motor i have been using awhile now had a 1280 rotor...guys were pulling new motors out of the package and had rotors that were less than that and some were 1300....MOST OF THE 1300 ROTORS CAME FROM NEW 13.5 MOTORS....... just something to chew on....if the motors are not tampered with i think 99% of them come close to being equal........

Although I agree with your post Pat, I think the "Key" is that Miller asked who had freakin rotors in stock, then ANOTHER thread got hijacked and now is full of the same repetitive crap that's every single other thread.....:cool:

Yeah except he steered it that way with post number #3 and post #5. I took the question as an editorial in disguise. Lefthander RC = rotors in stock, Tower hobbies = rotors in stock, Horizon Hobbies = rotors in stock.

Something tells me Steve could have figured it out without this thread.

Although I agree with your post Pat, I think the "Key" is that Miller asked who had freakin rotors in stock, then ANOTHER thread got hijacked and now is full of the same repetitive crap that's every single other thread.....:cool:


The post 3 & 5. A lot of people just look at threads and make assumptions. This is my first time piping in about the brushless thing and felt I needed to make a statement, with a good set-up and with avg. motor, batts a guy can be just as fast as the fast guy's. My little story was to show that with a good set-up there is hardly a difference between an older over heated a few times rotor from a newer rotor. So what would be the difference between a new rotor and a perfect rotor? That’s all I tiring to get at.
Dan there was no need to erase your post. You made some good points + it’s a forum, that’s what there here for. If I offended anyone please tell me and I’ll erase my posts. If anyone want to debate with me here is my E-mail.
Teamdezz@charter.net
Ok I’m done posting here.:dude::thumbsup:

Tampering with timing rings and removing winds is a bigger issue than rotors. If you think its not going on, you have your head in the sand!

just my .02 - Fire away!

Just remember...by making people aware of these conspiracy theories....it will make the guys YOU BEAT think that YOU are tampering with timing rings and removing winds. Where as if you didn't post anything, then they would think you actually beat them because you are better.

This is just a major peeve of mine...racers discrediting others....when the fact is the guys that beat you are just better.

I guess I have my head in the sand.

Just remember...by making people aware of these conspiracy theories....it will make the guys YOU BEAT think that YOU are tampering with timing rings and removing winds. Where as if you didn't post anything, then they would think you actually beat them because you are better.

This is just a major peeve of mine...racers discrediting others....when the fact is the guys that beat you are just better.

I guess I have my head in the sand.

I don't think you have your head in the sand .. i hope you don't ... because if you are, I'm too!

chassis/tires is (almost) everything ...

Steve.

My only reason for this thread is to find out how had rotors in stock as the new ones I bought were less than great.... I really dont even care I was just asking a question ... I am a little uposet that the 60 bucks I spent was not a good buy to say the least ....... I agree that car and driver is worth more than a rotor but at the highest of levels of racing everything counts as a complete package ..... SRM If not then why do we test speedos and motors as a combination ....