I would like to introduce the ROAR Oval committee.

Danny Bartholomew
Donnie Burnett
Jeff Helms
John Foister
Mike Boylan
Mike Russell
Sean Cochran
Scott Harper
Todd Putnam

These guys have volunteered to go to bat with ROAR for the good of the oval community.

Please feel free to talk to these guys and give them your support.

seeing some of those names on there gives a VERY positive vibe !!

Amen, 420 Tech!

This is a good day! I feel we have a strong oval committee now. Congrats to Donnie, Scott and every one else. Look forward to the Nats this year.

Thanks guys!

If there is anything you would like to discuss with me concerning ROAR and Oval, please feel free to do so.

You may contact me via email harp4002@bellsouth.net, if you like I can give you my cell number but I would rather not put it on here.

I know that my fellow committee members, along with myself are wanting to bring Oval Racing to you in the best way we can.

I do ask all of you Oval Racers to be patient while we undertake this task and to know that your voices, the racers voices, are being heard.

Go FAST, Turn LEFT and Finish Shiney Side UP!

SCOTT HARPER!?!?!?!!! What is this world coming to? Wait a minute, don't you have to know your way around an oval to be on the oval committee?:wave: Congratulations to all (even Scott)! I am very happy with the line up!

I would like to introduce the ROAR Oval committee.

Danny Bartholomew
Donnie Burnett
Jeff Helms
John Foister
Mike Boylan
Mike Russell
Sean Cochran
Scott Harper
Todd Putnam

These guys have volunteered to go to bat with ROAR for the good of the oval community.

Please feel free to talk to these guys and give them your support.



Talk about a Who's Who in Oval...

I forsee good things for Oval and ROAR with this group!:thumbsup:

Question is this how many of the committee will be attending the Carpet Oval nats in May?

Not a Dig just want to get everyone together.

I will be at the Oval Nats in August.

Question is this how many of the committee will be attending the Carpet Oval nats in May?

Not a Dig just want to get everyone together.

I won't be in attendance, but with today's technology, I'm only a phone call, a text message or an email away...:thumbsup:

Oval Committee, would you look into the weight of 10th scale cap tire lipo car weight. To get to 43 ozs I am adding 3.5 ozs of lead to my Mavrick sllider.

With the Orion 3200 LIPO battery about 3 oz lighter than 4 cell nimh but the rules the same for both, perhaps a review of same might be in order.

This weekend I had a chance to talk with a couple of the oval committee guys at the carpet oval nats. They where open to listening to several of my concerns with oval racing. Thanks for listening!!!!

I agree with Ron, Talking with David Lee and the others that attended and the Info that was gathered .Things should be going in the right direction.

I wish that all of the Oval Commitee would get together at one on the Oval Nats to show the members their support and listen and answer questions.

Ken"Scarecrow"Holmes

I will be at the Paved Oval Nats.

Awesome lineup representing us now at ROAR, great deal thanks guys,.

At Triclone we are running the lipo cars at 41 oz. Just thought I would put that out there for the info.

How much weight are you guys having to add to get up to 41?

I'm sorry I am not familiar with alot of the names, but from regions are the members of the committee from?

My cap Lipo car with a SMC 4000 is 41.2 oz......I added 2 oz to get up to the 43 oz min.....I see no problems with the 43 oz weight for caps.....Everyone will need to add lead!!!! Plus I can run the car wired with the eagle tree.....

I am in Alabama

Jimmy -- did your car weight that w/o the eagle tree? The 41.2oz that is.

John Foister.....Ohio
Mike Russell.....NC
Donnie Burnett...SC
Not sure about the rest, Think Todd is from up north , Sean Cochran is from CA. ,And Jeff Helms-from AZ. (somewhere west...maybe mid west), Any ways they can post here too.

Yes 41.2 without the eagle tree.....But thats with the Tekin speed control, its about .8 oz less than the novak speed contol........

21.5/lipo with an orion 3200 you add weight to almost every car to make 40 oz. so 43 is just silly!

Scott H, I had to add about 1oz of lead to get Cody's car up to 41oz. It is a Pro3 on caps.

Has anyone actually run in competition a car running lipo's with no added weight. These cars are designed to run at weights specified by ROAR & BRL rules. Yes most are slightly underweight but that helps put weight where you feel you need it. I agree with the weights specified. No matter how light the teams in NASCAR make their cars they have to meet minimum weight. Some have to add great amounts of weight to meet the min.

Dave Irrgang

Has anyone actually run in competition a car running lipo's with no added weight. These cars are designed to run at weights specified by ROAR & BRL rules. Yes most are slightly underweight but that helps put weight where you feel you need it. I agree with the weights specified. No matter how light the teams in NASCAR make their cars they have to meet minimum weight. Some have to add great amounts of weight to meet the min.

Dave Irrgang


Our SWTour Series rules were based on NORRCA's rules (Since that's where the series got it's inception)

NORRCA went from 42 oz and 44 oz (sportsman classes) in 6 cell to 38 oz in 4 cell. My series always KEPT that weight rule (instead of increasing it every time a NEW battery came out)

With LIPO - we continued to keep the 38 oz MIN. weight rule, and it seems to be working out really well. The guys seem to like not having to stuff 4+ oz of weight into their car - and IMHO it goes back to one of the basics we used when originally going to 38 oz....LIGHTER WEIGHT - wears parts a little less (In theory anyway)

I have a hard time believing that ROAR's rules took 4 cell weight to MORE than what their 6 cell weight was.

swtour,
ROAR just went from 42oz to 41oz this year for foam. Cap tires with 6 cells is 45oz and with 4 cells is 43oz, how is that heavier?
Why should lipo cars be different than nmhi cars? Just because they can?

Dave

The 6 cell weight used to be 42oz, but that was 9-10 years ago.

Why should lipo cars be different than nmhi cars? Just because they can?


and if I'm not mistaken, the year OVAL went to 4 cell - ROAR like NORRCA went from 42 to 38...last I knew, I thought ROAR was 43 last year (Haven't looked at NiMh rules this year...only running LiPo), the 43 is 5 oz heavier than originally what 4 cell started with 9 / 10 years ago.

....and YES, since they ARE lighter - why penalized them... they ADDED weight based on the fact the NEWER cells were heavier ... so if the DIRECTION is LiPo and they are lighter than the penalty for the HEAVIER battery should be removed.

(Give a guy a choice between a LIGHT Lipo car and/or a HEAVY NiMh 6 cell car - and see which way he goes.)

It's not like anyone is trying to run NiMh and LiPo together... (although we do run the 10.5 4 cell W/ 17.5 LiPo with the lower weight and they both compete very well together...(I wouldn't do it for a Major race though)

ScottH,
ROAR has always been 42oz for foam tire cars till the end of last year. They went to 41oz in 2008. Roar did make the weight heavier around 10 years ago for the Cap tire cars to help keep the playing field fair.

SWtour,
ROAR has never been 38oz in 1/10th oval, that was a NORRCA rule. Please get your facts straight.

I hope ROAR does not change the weight rules. It would just cause more confusion at the races than they have now.

Dave

Changing the weight rule wouldn't confuse anything. A weight rule is to keep everything level so someone doesn't come out with a swiss cheeze car. If every make of car on the market has to add 2 + ounces to make weight in 21.5/lipo then the rule is 2 oz. to heavy and would make know sense to have everyone adding weight.

In 17.5/lipo with the more open battery rules you could keep a higher weight cause the batteries weigh more and less weight would be added.

I think 41 oz. for all lipo classes makes more sense for everyone unless some chassis I am unaware of weighs more than every main stream chassis I have seen scaled and in that case they made there car to heavy to start with.

At our local track we are running 21.5/lipo @ 40oz. and every car there has weight added and some already are adding 2 oz. to make that weight and for a ROAR race they will have to add 5 oz..... now we are just getting silly when that much weight needs added.

Adding small amounts of weight to help handling is one thing, but where do you mount 3+ oz. of lead weight that will not effect the handling and can be safely installed, so not go flying into spectators.

Brian0525,
Your statements are proving what I said about confusion. 12.5 gets it's own weight then 17.5 gets another weight then 4 cell class gets it's own weight then 1/12th gets it's own weight and it goes on&on&on&on.

LarryB,
I would be more concerned about a car that is very light because the whole car now becomes a missile that ends up in the crowd not the added weight.

I know I am making alot of the lipo racers angry but give this some serious thought and you will see I'm looking at the whole picture. As a manufacturer this is the way I have to look at it.
Just so everyone knows I plan on running lipo batteries in the future as a fun class. I have 2 lipo batteries now. If you look at the pics of our Shock Wave car you will see it is designed with lipo's in mind. I'm not trying to kill the class just keep it safe and easy.

Dave Irrgang

Diff Dude - ROAR doesn't make changes to oval racing rules until the Oval class committee makes a recommendation to change a rule.


About Lipo and weights - the rest of the classes in the ROAR rule book for 2008 are very clear - all weights remain the same.

Brian0525,
Your statements are proving what I said about confusion. 12.5 gets it's own weight then 17.5 gets another weight then 4 cell class gets it's own weight then 1/12th gets it's own weight and it goes on&on&on&on.



Not confusing to anyone who can read a set of rules. Is it confusing that they run different motors or batteries? NO, then why would it be confusing for the weight. You want weight added to every car and you want the option to run a different tire than everyone else at the handout races! Not sure we will see any subject the same based on those couple things lately, but I do have an open mind if a good reason is stated but "cars flying into the crowd" cause they are 2 oz lighter is simply rediculous. If everyone has to add the weight then it is fair and I will do that but the question remains why add an extreme amount of weight when a weight rule is to keep things even for speed and nothing else?


Dawn,
This discussion is for the oval commitee to see what people think not to try to get you to do anything right now!

Brian0525.......I agree that we (Oval Committee) needs to look at the weight of the cars and I'm sure we will visit that subject before September. Is the current weight too heavy,probably....is it extreme...no

We are reading and making notes on the concearns expressed here so keep the dialog open and civil.

Mike

Not confusing to anyone who can read a set of rules. Is it confusing that they run different motors or batteries? NO, then why would it be confusing for the weight. You want weight added to every car and you want the option to run a different tire than everyone else at the handout races! Not sure we will see any subject the same based on those couple things lately, but I do have an open mind if a good reason is stated but "cars flying into the crowd" cause they are 2 oz lighter is simply rediculous. If everyone has to add the weight then it is fair and I will do that but the question remains why add an extreme amount of weight when a weight rule is to keep things even for speed and nothing else?


Dawn,
This discussion is for the oval commitee to see what people think not to try to get you to do anything right now!

IHMO............There needs to be 2 different weight limits for the 21.5 and 17.5 Lipo classes. When you have to add less than an ounce to a 17.5 that makes sense to me. When you have to add almost 3 oz. to a 21.5 car because the battery is 3 oz. lighter, I think the 21.5 weight needs to be adjusted.

The 21.5 class is pretty quick and with 3 oz. added, weight has come off during some "licks". These drivers are then DQ'd because they are 1/4 oz. under but still have 2.75 oz. taped, strapped, bolted, or glued in.

Just my 2 cents............

Brian,
You do have a point about me asking for an option tire but that issue is dead now.
The confusion comes into play when the tech officials have so many different classes at a race the chances for problems do increase.
I want you to give me an honest answer to this question, what percentage of racers actually read the rules? You can't even get them to stay quite at the drivers meeting at a race, which only takes a couple of minutes of their time. Most racers learn they are not legal when they get to tech and then complain, I didn't know that.
Beleive it or not I am having fun bantering back and forth with you on the subject. I see many racers are looking to see what's next. Keep it up.:thumbsup:

Dave

Dawn,
I would like to know where any of us have asked you or the committee to change the rules now! This is a discussion between racers to let each other hear their opinions. I think you should get out and go to some oval races and learn what what we are really about, NOT what you hear from other people, you WILL be surprised. I have raced RC cars for over 24 years in offroad, onroad, and oval. How many years of actual racing do you have?

Dave Irrgang

Thanks Mike for letting us know the oval guys are watching. I do not need another nick name " lead slinger". LOL

Brian0525.......I agree that we (Oval Committee) needs to look at the weight of the cars and I'm sure we will visit that subject before September. Is the current weight too heavy,probably....is it extreme...no

We are reading and making notes on the concearns expressed here so keep the dialog open and civil.

Mike

IMHO......... for 21.5 it is a bit extreme. Having built 21.5 cars for several guys, trying to find a place to put 12x 1/4oz pieces of lead can cause headaches. It requires some added thought because space is limited. Remember we're basically running 6-cell when it comes to room in the car. PT and receiver get moved compared to 4-cell and I'll be a fool to mount 3 oz of lead on the right side! :freak:

Using a lexan tray and putting lead in the cell slots under the battery will place some of it but you are still forced to stack it along side the battery and in some cases other places.

Heck now that we're running brushless/lipo no need to buy brushes, but instead we're having to buy lead weight. Ya'll know it doesn't stick very well...........:mad:

Not pickin' Mike just trying to bring up points of concern. See ya Friday chief :wave:

Tony....I have to admit that my Lipo knowledge is limited. I plan to spend some time at the Regional this weekend trying to learn more about it. I want to see more than just a couple of cars to get an idea how much lead wieght is being used. I should be there Thursday evening.

Mike

Wow...

Dave, was that really necessary?

I don't know where I implied your wanting change now. I am very sure I posted the 2008 direction and pointed out to you that ROAR doesn't make changes to oval racing. It was this comment that inpsired my response:

"I hope ROAR does not change the weight rules. It would just cause more confusion at the races than they have now."

With that said, I would appreciate you refrain from personal criticisms as I am not a person you have ever had a conversation with or have ever attempted to learn anything about. And, its not very efficient in a conversation when change is imminent and there is little to no time in getting the process underway.

IMHO......... for 21.5 it is a bit extreme. Having built 21.5 cars for several guys, trying to find a place to put 12x 1/4oz pieces of lead can cause headaches. It requires some added thought because space is limited. Remember we're basically running 6-cell when it comes to room in the car. PT and receiver get moved compared to 4-cell and I'll be a fool to mount 3 oz of lead on the right side! :freak:

Using a lexan tray and putting lead in the cell slots under the battery will place some of it but you are still forced to stack it along side the battery and in some cases other places.

Heck now that we're running brushless/lipo no need to buy brushes, but instead we're having to buy lead weight. Ya'll know it doesn't stick very well...........:mad:

Not pickin' Mike just trying to bring up points of concern. See ya Friday chief :wave:

Exactly the point I was making. Build a Lipo Hangman for 21.5/lipo and make it weight 43 oz. then lets talk about what is extreme.

Mike, thank you for speaking up and letting us know that someone is paying attention.

Like Tony said, We need a different weight for 21.5/lipo or something in between like 41 oz. for both for cap tires.

Beyond weight we need to make sure we cover the Lipo classes from top to bottom for a set of rules cause it is growing very fast as they will be the largest classes at the paved nats and rules for the carpet season would be nice to have rather than waiting a whole year for the rules to catch up.

FWIW -- Mike is not the only member of the Oval Committee looking here.

Tony....I have to admit that my Lipo knowledge is limited. I plan to spend some time at the Regional this weekend trying to learn more about it. I want to see more than just a couple of cars to get an idea how much lead wieght is being used. I should be there Thursday evening.

Mike

With the turnout Easley has had in 21.5 (30+ cars) I think "seeing will be believing" this weekend. lol

I'll be there Friday morning to get an early start at trying to cause some trouble! :dude:

...I saw 21.5 mentioned and have to say - MAN can these things FLY on a velo on a HOT DAY..

We've only had them on the velo for 3 races.

1st race last December only 2 cars ran mixed in with 4 cell STOCK - 21.5 LIPO was out of the box w/o even TRYING to find a good ratio...2 laps quicker running a high 27 lapper in 5 minutes on the 820 ft. High Banked concrete Bike track.

At our race in February 3 cars jumped up the pace and set a record around a 28/5:04...and this weekend Buck VanPatten missed going 29 laps by .05 seconds running a 28/5:00.05, and never fell slower than 10.8 second laps. (Which is about 51.75 MPH....at the END of a 5 minute run.) and the up front times were in the 10.2 range (which should be 54.8 - 55.0 MPH)

The 17.5 cars hit lap times in the 9.2 second range (Larry Ruby) (Approx 60.8 MPH)

Duck03 , you have mail. thanks

We're Starting to spread the field out again.
It was
Stock both 1/10 and 1/12
Mod both 1/10 and 1/12
then came 19t for a Sportsman class
All 4cell.
Now it's
21.5 lipo
17.5 lipo
13.5
10.5
Open Mod
Stock
19t or limited Mod.
and I don't see anywhere 1/12 is fitting in. Don't tell me that there is not enough 1/12 drivers out there or they don't make cap tires anymore to run them on banked oval tracks. There are 6 or 7 manufactures of 1/12 oval cars
and you CAN run foams on a banked paved track.

Well back to the subject. hehehe

You talk about confused? Will 13.5,10.5, Open Mod, and Stock remain 4cell?
Will they also go to Lipo? You talk about a Missile! Sean,Monti,Pete,and Greg
were turning 3.4sec lap times at the carpet nats and that was with 4cells Brushless motors. I drove a 13.5 with a Lipo pack it's a rocket ship. In the hands of a inexperanced driver someone can get hurt. Isn't this why we went to 4cell? Less cost, make the car work better,and keep everyone racing.

We are now going full circle,back to 6cell racing again. More speed, more tire wear, more damage to the cars, along with more money to have to spend to get into the lipo field.

Although the idea on Lipo's is great, until someone out there in the ESC world can find a way to limit the voltage to 4.6volts to the motor and use the rest for running servo's and Personal transponders, the cars are going to get faster and lighter.

Make all the 1/10 cars weight the same. You can find out all the info. get the weight of a box stock car from the Manufactures find the lightest electrionic and add. this is the weight for all.

All I ask is find 5 or 6 classes that everyone across the ROAR country can run at a ROAR event. Then the rest of the local clubs and track will have something to follow.

Yes, I was Diehard 1/12 driver and will be again someday if the rules will allow. If not then I'll put my 500,000 mah lipo battery and a 3.0 brushless
motor in my 1/12 with a gtp body and a large sidedam and go racing somewhere.

1/12 is dead or on it's way!

19T completely gone most places.

with 21.5/lipo being 13.5/4cell speed and 17.5/lipo being 10.5/4cell speed they will be gone in the not so distant future also.

17.5/stock 4cell (NiMH is going in the future and we might see a 25.5/lipo here too)
21.5/lipo
17.5/lipo
mod (they can run lipo or 4cell or whatever they like this also a small group)


you have 4 again!


Lipo isn't the end all be all perfect racing some folks think but i like it and many others also do and until something better comes along (which it will) that is what we have.

I am sure in the next few years we will see this same post again about the death of Lipo and something else will take it's place. Some poeple don't like change and some don't mind but we aren't going to stay the same and we are not going back so take it for what it is and move forward.