In the last ten years all of the successful oval and on road races have not been affiliated with ROAR. Does this mean we oval racers do not need Roar?

I have said this before and repeat it now. When I started racing, ROAR was the only Organization that governed radio controlled racing. When NORCCA arrived the kept the same rules as ROAR and just separate the Team racers from the sportsman racer.
Things were simple then and the rules could be adapted easily for oval on /off road racing. There were just stock and modified motors, 1/0th and 1/2th cars and most cars were pan type chassis. In the early nineties with the advent of the TC car on- road racing took off and the manufactures began to produce more products, with the addition of the non US manufacture in on/off road cars. Tenth scale pan cars were being use mostly in oval racing. It was also at about this time oval started getting the motor and battery of the month. Many racers left the sport due to cost, many switched too on or off road where motors and batteries were not so important. This leads us to the problem we have today with oval racing and ROAR.
It is my opinion, and from what I am reading here that ROAR does not and has never understood the importance of motor and battery too oval racing. Also, the different demands on bodies of oval. That is why the ROAR oval committee was started, to give input for rules that are needed in oval racing
ROAR has not only not listened to the oval committee, but they refused to see the things that have begun to bring oval back to life. Brushless motors requiring less work and equipment investment, a single motor that keeps the racer on the same playing field for the most part are what have been and will rebuild oval racing. Can’t ROAR see how their Hand Out Tire Rule at national level events ( on/off road and oval ) helped those events overcome one controversial problem?
Does Oval Racing Need ROAR? Many racers still look to the chance to be a ROAR National Champion or do well at that level of an event. It is my opinion that most of ROAR’s income is generated at their National events. Does ROAR Need Oval Racers? I think they do to help with income and promote Roar in a good way.
WHAT DO OVAL RACERS NEED? A clear set of rules that apply to oval racing and enforced, Rules that do not bend to all the manufactures, and a liaison between the manufactures are some of the things.
NASCAR does not make rules for road racing. They have learned that letting the manufactures try to get advantages in different body designs did not work. It lead to many types of templates for their rules. Hence the COT a single chassis and body to control cost. I think oval needs a single motor rule and battery control
This is just my Opinion, I could be wrong

If ROAR is so lame that they let a good man and knowledgeable RC’er like John Foister get away from them (apparently because of politics) then NO they hold no credibility in my book. But I have seen other good men get involved and then get disenchanted with them too. Good luck Donnie… you have a hard row to hoe bud.

Oval racing appears to be a pimple on the butt of ROAR and something that they wish would just “go away”. Case in point: the ROAR Carpet National that is coming up. ROAR has NO CLUE as to what they need in the form of motor rules or what’s going to be approved or how to tech it when it’s over. The fact is the answer is so simple and is staring them right in the face.

We have a manufacturer that, on their own, took on the brushless movement, refined it and made a product that could revolutionize our hobby. Novak stepped up, Novak did the research and testing and Novak putout the first motors that we used in oval. Now ROAR is saying “we don’t know what to do about standards and rules”. Its simple folks, Novak has already set the standards USE THEIR MOTOR to make your rules for the rest to build by!

ROAR needs to open their eyes to the fact that Oval racers don’t give a tinkers damn as to what they approve for Off Road or Road Racing; WE DON’T DO THAT……WE TURN LEFT! And while it may seem about as boring as today’s Atlanta race to some, IT’S WHAT WE DO! We are unique to the hobby; we deal in lap times where .001 of a second make a difference. Where 10 watts of motor power or a battery with .001 more volts per cell could make the difference in winning or losing. Our part of the hobby deals in speed and precision far beyond what the others do.

Is that a good thing? WHO CARES…..IT’S WHAT WE DO! We are different from any other form of RCing and WE NEED OUR OWN RULES, OUR OWN STANDARDS and our own SECTION OF ROAR. (And I don’t mean a “token committee” that can’t get anything done.) We don’t need to deal with “we can’t do that because it’s not what we allow in Off Road or T.C! If ROAR can’t see that then maybe Sonny Brown needs to go national with the BRL.

ROAR also needs to open its eyes to the fact that the biggest race of the year does NOT use their rules anymore and they have to CUT OFF their entries EVERY YEAR.

SO, do we need ROAR anymore? I think the better question is “Does ROAR need US”?

Maybe my comments here are too harsh but I had a birthday this weekend and I’m getting to darn old to care much about being politically correct or what people think anymore.

RIGHT ON McLIN!

Mclin thats the best post I have seen ever on here .:woohoo:

McLin, AMEN BROTHA!!!

So, ROAR answer the question.

Do you WANT OVAL? If not, let it go, delete it from the rule book and we will take it from there. If you do WANT us, act like it. Give the OVAL COMMITTEE real power, make them their own entity and let THEM set the rules for US.

Amen!!!

About time this was said. We sure dont need ROAR as its setup up now and if they wont do what in our (OVAL) best interest I say "heck with ROAR"

Not every form of racing can use the same rules and guidlines. Sports car racing (onroad) , Baja 1000 cars and trucks (off-road) and Nascar (oval), They all have rules ........ but they're not the same. As soon as ROAR understands that things might change ? ........ right now they it seems they make rules for touring cars and off-road and then expect the other niches of r/c to be happy with that. But there is no universal motor and racing rules for all forms of racing in "real life" kinda crazy IMHO to expect it to work in R/C. Besides we all know there are very FEW places that use ROAR rules to the letter........most tracks use them as a guideline and modify them to keep there racer bas happy ........ which again you have to do, this is a HOBBY not Nascar sanctioning the local short tracks across the nation.

Great thread lets hope that ROAR cares enough to read it.

Joel White

Ive raced since 1987. Nearly every weekend. Nearly every class possible.Im addicted. Ive been to 1 roar sanctioned event. That was like 1992. I know we all went by roar rules, for years. Ive been racing the BRL series. The most organized racing ive ever seen. Oval doesnt need roar in my opinion.

I’m not sure at this point if OVAL needs ROAR,

But I do know that OVAL needs John Foister……………..


Hitman Motorsports

Oval needs rules that are set far enough in advance that people can prepare to race a particular class at a national level event but whether that is Roar or something else it most likely doesn't matter.

John had very valid reasons for not wanting Roar to pass down new rules for oval. I hope Roar comes up with solid rules for brushless racing which take into consideration the same issues John brought up cause bad rules are sometimes worse than last minute ones. Surely there is a comprimise between what Roar wants and what oval racers want.

Brian, you are thinking like I hoped the racers and ROAR would, when I started this thread.

Yes we need Roar and Roar needs us. Lets move forward together. Slow down and get it right the first time.

John, I agree with you (Roar need us and we need them), now let's see if they want us!

Now that you have extra time on your hands...maybe someone on the EXCOMM would recommend you for a seat on the EXCOMM.

What a bunch of whinny babies- things don't go your way I'm not joining -we don't need them.Guess what you do.What about the very common things you've got- batteries- chassis- bodies-tires.You've got basic rules. The motors and batteries are changing quickly but ROAR never has and never will.All this internet and fourm does is let the few people get on complain and make it sound like this is the majority when in fact you are a small minority. You might be devoted to that fourm of racing and you want them to move quicker so you complain more.Folks it's a hobby not life and death.It's what we do in our spare time.The specific rules will follow.It's a Hobby!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which can exist without the other?

ROAR needs racers and racers need ROAR. We just need a ROAR that is more in touch with reality. John Foister has chosen to take the High-Road and continue with his support of ROAR. Hopefully the opposition will follow and we can go forth rather than backwards If ROAR takes another hit it just might not survive. John was key in moving oval forward and may have ruffled some feathers in the process but his results of constant growth can't be denied. All we can do now is hope that things keep growing.....with John it was a given.

Joe Retherford

RC racing does NOT need another organization to cloud the issues and cause more confusion. That would be sort of a “been there done that” type of deal. (And yes, I have the T-Shirt.)

But, what would be nice is if ROAR could do like NASCAR did last week when they bought the AMA. If they <ROAR> could “acquire” the BRL and GASCAR, stay out of the rule making process and leave Sonny and Tim in charge; this would put everything under one umbrella of being a ROAR organization but would give ROAR an instant Oval division. Plus it would take the BRL and GASCAR to a national level.

........OK, I had to make a long drive today for work and had WAY too much time on my hands! LOL Nice thought though !

The need is mutual. However, it sometimes seems that there are characters that step up for volunteer organizations that are extreme rejects themselves that enforce and over rule with rediculous and unnecessary ideas. This sometimes frustrates the good people in the organization to the point that they abandon the orginazation. Vote in our boards and continue to hold discussions for observation on major forums. I can see how easy it is to agree with the one motor brand rule in brushless for oval that so many defend. But i'm not convinced it's best for the hobby. Novak, though i'm sure is very profitable now, shows no sign of reducing the price of these motors that we are required to buy. Virtually all brushless oval races are now enforcing this one brand rule. This is hurting a lot of motor guru's in the hobby that supported oval racing. Though so many don't see a problem with this, let me toss some ideas out there...
The amount of money i have sacrificed to buy these motors makes me enjoy the cost of stock touring a little more each time i do it. i could buy four blanks for what i'm gambling with for one random motor from novak. I like Novak and the support at all the races is terrific. But, I still wonder if the price will come down.
I'm goin on the chopping block by saying i think that Roar should approve four brands and we in oval racing should adopt this trend. I think that NOVAK, LRP, TEKIN, AND SPEED PASSION blanks should be the motors Roar allows and here's how and why i think it works... the competition will get the price of the motors to naturally drop as other manufacturers share the profits and stand a chance at competitive sales sharing the same market. Also, understand that a successful company usually has a few talented brains designing these products and i think that more brain cells will result in better technology for us in competition and for the overall maket. This process can only be sped up by removing the financial cuffs that restrict the other companies from floating in the oval market or in the U.S. All the manufacturers i've stated have american distributors which is always a terrific long term consideration for the market in our country.
Attention ROAR for this: educate yourselves and set performance limits by immediately regulating the specs on these motors by resistance, length and guage of wire as well as the diameter of the rotors. "And Publish it ASAP." This way manufacturers know the limits and can submit something for approval for 2009
allow different can designs for manufacturer recognition. I believe this will prevent things from getting out of hand. If the specs are set the same for all brands, then teching motors by inductance and whatever other teching devices evolve from this, will not be complicated. Also this will allow brand loyalty and regulate the motor of the week issue. Understanding that if you right LRP on the can of a novak motor some will still believe the LRP motor is faster! Allow variable timing. this is a tuning aide that will help keep things simple especially since if you don't allow timing adjustment, Speedos will. And they cost more than motors. These guidelines should keep this simple. Infinate timing is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Set guidlines to, for example: ride height, timing, and roof height at a limit that no one in their right mind would want to exceed because there is no inherent advantage. This will keep racers from being regulated to death and prevent a ton of complaining. Regs cause complaing! Less Regs= Less Complaining! This will keep the motor guys from getting bored at home cycling batteries all day and cutting timing rings! Keep sales up and these motor guys will be back in business and not just bored in the back pocket of a company to figure ways to cheat the Novak motor! :)

Yeah and I got a nice number ROAR can pay for GASCAR too. :D

let the bidding begin....... I'll give you a quarter!

I still have a bit of a problem with using Inductance as a Tech standard but not for any motor design reason. I think a problem may arise in the actual meters that are used reading differently. Even in the best scenario, a good meter needs to be recalibrated once a year. I have never dealt with Inductance meters though so I’m sure that’s a real problem.

Something I would REALLY like to see done by an independent tester is to try to determine a relationship between Inductance and RPM’s. Does 2 uH’s “really” mean anything?

Wire gauge and wrapping techniques certainly need to be stated.

A timing rule also needs to be put in place. No matter what the rule is, “something” needs to be stated.

Jesse we are talking about GASCAR, not YOURcar. LOL

McLin -- I am with ya. They had all of that for the brushed motors. It does not seem that hard to do for the new BL motors. I mean if a 10.5 is 10-1/2 wraps of X-guage wire and that is 15inches of wire, then state it. And all motors must meet it. No real big deal. Inhibit the timing to X-degrees of adjustment. We had all that in the brushed era, what seems to be the big deal about doing it for the BL era?

Jesse we are talking about GASCAR, not YOURcar. LOL

LMAO!:thumbsup:

McLin -- I am with ya. They had all of that for the brushed motors. It does not seem that hard to do for the new BL motors. I mean if a 10.5 is 10-1/2 wraps of X-guage wire and that is 15inches of wire, then state it. And all motors must meet it. No real big deal. Inhibit the timing to X-degrees of adjustment. We had all that in the brushed era, what seems to be the big deal about doing it for the BL era?

with brushless motors the timing is adjustable with the speed control. leave it open b/c once one figures out the speed controls offer infinate timing then there comes another rule of regulating the speedo. full timed the motors don't pick up much speed. so allow the timing and regulate the heart of it. the wire!

Even in the best scenario, a good meter needs to be recalibrated once a year. I have never dealt with Inductance meters though so I’m sure that’s a real problem.


McLin,

I can partially agree ... but, it's kind of like the 'OFFICIAL' scale at an event. EVERYBODY at That event has to be legal on THAT scale - so for THAT event it's even for everyone.

I can't tell you how many times I dq'd someone for being underweight...to be told "My Scale is WRONG because it was up to proper weight on THEIR scale"

DON'T CARE - the OFFICIAL SCALE is the ONLY SCALE that counts, or matters. (Oh, I have/had a calibration weight too - and always proved them wrong...but that's a different matter)

Using competition to regulate cost of anything to do with any type of racing does not work. :) The price of BL motors isn't out of line. It is a matter of time before Novak and LRP has adjustable timing. So, we all better get ready to buy new speedo's too. Unfortunately, it's racing, and racing isn't cheap. :)

Using competition to regulate cost of anything to do with any type of racing does not work. :) The price of BL motors isn't out of line. It is a matter of time before Novak and LRP has adjustable timing. So, we all better get ready to buy new speedo's too. Unfortunately, it's racing, and racing isn't cheap. :)

I don't like to post on just anything because it sometime bites me back. I think I can say this in the right way. As this post started it was asked if oval needs ROAR? Yes oval needs ROAR and ROAR needs oval just the same, this is one of the reasons- When (and ROAR will) we get the right rules in place the manufacturer will build what is allowed. :)Racing still isn't cheap!

Donnie

Joe, I thought about the scale thing too but this is a little different. If your scales are different from mine and you tell me I’m under weight, I can put some on and get back to racing. But if you tell me my motor is 2 uH’s under………I’m screwed!

Don’t really know the answer or if it’s even a valid problem but it just seems that inductance would relate more to motor performance like wattage does with rating a brushed motor and not something to use as a teching tool. On the other hand, maybe it is something that needs to be teched. I’m just concerned about the meter deal.

Lin,

We've got a meter that I've been playing with a little - One of our racers bought it and donated it to the Series...which is really cool.

It wasn't a super high dollar meter, and I'm not even sure of the brand name. (Box says "MADE in CHINA" Digital Multimeter)

It's a Model LC-9243 LC METER

I am hoping to be able to have our tech guy check pretty much ALL the motors our guys are using over the next few races, and log them into a notebook then mark the motors.

What I'm hoping we can do is look for inconsistancies (and hopefully NOT find any) then come up with a Go/NoGo number w/ THIS particular meter.

The difference is - NOT being a National Sanctioning body - I have a little more leeway

We now return to your regularly scheduled TOPIC - "Does Oval Racing Need ROAR"

This thread is starting to turn very productive. Good idea's on merger, but peoples pride will probably never let that happen and thats a shame. That could be taken negatively, but it is meant to be motivating. To get people thinking what if ? It has some interesting positive possibilities. Food for thought anyway. I think that Dirt, gas, and electric oval have a great future in Roar if we get the right people working on it (Oval people that do it regular). Any body want to step up and work on those committe's under the new Oval committee?


Brushless motors, wish Novak, LRP, Speedpassion would tell us what kind of min/max tolerance they can hold. Can production tolerances hold 2,3,4,5 point spread. Maybe someone on the motor committee already obtained that info and could come on here and share it with us.

I am willing, sign me up!

Wow - I just looked at the POLL numbers - kinda looks like U.S. politics 50/50 split~

IMHO and after reading all that has been posted. I think Oval does need ROAR.

Here is why.

Back in the Oval Boom of the 80's & 90's, the Nats were full, The State races were huge and the Regionals were huge. The rules were laid down and for the most part easy to understand. If you went to a track they all ran "ROAR Rules", why? They were the standard and kept up with the times. So from track to track, race to race you knew what to expect as far as rules and were ready for the event.

I think that ROAR can get back to that but it is going to take time. The way that technology and products are changing this is something that cannot be hammered out in one email or posting and made to be.

I will ask that you guys do not pile on with the "they should have done so and so befroe this". That really does not matter at all. What's done is water under the bridge. The important thing is ROAR is appearing to want to come up with a set of rules and classes in which to run by. So instead of all of us pointing out what is wrong, how about we become part of the solution instead.

Where it’s true that it’s all water under the dam, it’s a shame that SO MUCH water has passed by. But, as you said, there is no need to keep going there. The point now should be “how can we help”.

Since I feel like I have been an “idea of the week man” the last couple of days, let me throw another one out on the table. I have brought this up before without much interest so maybe it only makes since to Larry Boyd and me. LOL

Problem: No interest in ROAR State races and very little in Regional’s. Along with this, series racing has grown in popularity and (unless gas prices kill it) I see no reason for either of those situations to change.

Possible solution: Organize a ROAR series made up of State and Regional races. We are too small at this point to limit a state race to only those in that state nor should there be only one race. I know this is not how the system is set up but keep an open mind here.

People that race in the State race use their finishing position to “seed” themselves into a qualifier for the Regional’s. And your Regional finish seeds you into your qualifier for the Nat’s. If you don’t get to race either a State or Regional race, you can still go to the Nat’s, you will just be put in a “catch all” qualifier at the end.

That’s just a “rough” idea and would take a lot of planning and polishing but it might put some “spice” to an old idea.

Oh there is one more thing; ROAR has to get off its butt and do more than just put out a flyer and call that promoting a race! (Take notes from Humpty Wheeler and Mike Boylan)

INFO:: I just wanted to let everyone know that the ROAR Oval committee is still in tack, the same people are still there with some new ones. I will be posting here and there to keep racers informed on what thier committee is doing and how things are going. Soon I will post who is on that committee.
Please keep this thread going in the positived. ROAR is listening to you!

Thank you.
Donnie Burnett

McLin -- I am with ya. They had all of that for the brushed motors. It does not seem that hard to do for the new BL motors. I mean if a 10.5 is 10-1/2 wraps of X-guage wire and that is 15inches of wire, then state it. And all motors must meet it. No real big deal. Inhibit the timing to X-degrees of adjustment. We had all that in the brushed era, what seems to be the big deal about doing it for the BL era?

How many tracks do you know that is going to unwind a 80 dollar motor just to see if someone is legal? Tracks will go under losing money..Bottom line..we need inductance reading minimum(no need for maximum) on each motor..that is the only way to tech the motor...

Jody,

I agree with you. However I was told that there are ways you can "beat" the inductance meter. Where you actually produce more power but reads the same on the meter. Whether or not that is true will I guess be the deciding factor in that.

As far as unwinding...

For a club race if they want to completely unwind the motor the person protesting should front the money only if it is proven legal. If it is illegal than the racer who's motor it is, is SOL.

For a nationals race I think that JB had a good idea. You comepletely tear down the motor except for unwinding. But then you paint the winds and after the mains you completely unwind it. This should fall under the organizations obligation to replace if it is found legal.



-Adam Liehr

How many tracks do you know that is going to unwind a 80 dollar motor just to see if someone is legal? Tracks will go under losing money..Bottom line..we need inductance reading minimum(no need for maximum) on each motor..that is the only way to tech the motor...


Its not the tracks that should be paying the PROTEST Fee for checking a motor! It the racer, if you think somethings fishy, "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS"! We do need a wire rules, if you don't have a wire wrap rule someone will rewrap a motor that reads legal and is FASTER! If you have the rule, it is less likely someone will try to break rules! NO rules leave gray areas and as we found out at the Snowbirds, someone will push the GRAY area!

The thing people have to be careful with is - everybody wants MORE

MORE RULES
MORE TECH
MORE OFFICIALS at Large Races
MORE ADVERTISING and PROMOTION

But are YOU willing to SPEND MORE of YOUR $$$ to get those things?

One of the biggest complaints I use to hear at NORRCA was from Tracks holding National Events. They complained about having to PAY for the NORRCA officials to be at the BIG races.

They expected and wanted OFFICIALS there - but thought NORRCA should just 'PROVIDE' them. Like NORRCA was some multi million dollar major corporation with DEEP pockets. ... IT Don't Work that WAY

You want enough OFFICIALS at a NATIONAL event - to oversee the event - tech and tear down cars, etc. and expect these guys to be PROFESSIONALS and NOT be racing during the event... You better also be prepared to PAY for them. (Per Hour + Travel Expense and Lodging - generally I'd say on a 3 day race...for 4 days)

When (and ROAR will) we get the right rules in place the manufacturer will build what is allowed. :)Racing still isn't cheap!

Donnie

I guess this is the core reason to many people not wanting an open motor rule(yet). The rules are not "tight" enough to restrict motors that perform noticeably better from being allowed to compete.

The maunufacturers need to get together and AGREE to a common list of specifications.

These specifications should mirror the current Novak line-up 17.5, 13.5 & 10.5

This benefits Novak because it does not require them to re-tool

This benefits us because Novak and their wisdom can help us create the proper detailed specifications in order to keep out motors that perform better than the rest.

It would be awesome to have a Nats next year where a wide spectrum of motors make the show LRP, Novak, Trinity..... and nobody has HP over the next guy.

The hard part is going to be getting the manufacturers on board.

Donnie I believe the next question is where do we go from here? Is Novak contacted with our intension?

Joe Retherford

Joe,

The disturbing thing is (I contacted a few companies last year) the 'OTHER' motor mfg's don't want to build a motor "EQUAL" to the NOVAKS (or at least that is what they told ME)

IF they are going to build - they want to build a BETTER motor...so they can claim 'There's is Better'

I had a (unnamed person) from one company tell me - there were NOT interested in a LEVEL playing field - that THAT is NOT what RACING is about... FUNNY thing is - when the ARCOR deal, and our deal and the BRL Deal all locked in NOVAK Motors - these companies all started crying FOUL!

Joe,

The disturbing thing is (I contacted a few companies last year) the 'OTHER' motor mfg's don't want to build a motor "EQUAL" to the NOVAKS (or at least that is what they told ME)

IF they are going to build - they want to build a BETTER motor...so they can claim 'There's is Better'

I had a (unnamed person) from one company tell me - there were NOT interested in a LEVEL playing field - that THAT is NOT what RACING is about... FUNNY thing is - when the ARCOR deal, and our deal and the BRL Deal all locked in NOVAK Motors - these companies all started crying FOUL!

Makes perfect sense to me. Why would any company want to build their product to be equal to their competition's product? Doing that would make no business sense for them whatsoever.

No matter what specs get laid down each company will come up with tweaks to attempt to make their product better. I think that is a given. It was certainly true of brushed motors.

I don't fault the companies for this or find it disturbing in the least. If any of us owned a company we'd be doing the same. That being said I have absolutely no interest in taking part in the battle, so I would have to think very hard on whether I would attend any race with an open motor rule.

Separate topic
Now if only some people would devote their energies and posts to promoting the fact that in nearly 4 carpet seasons of BL racing there have been no incidents, anyone knows of, of intentional cheating. Instead of listing the 8 zillion ways they "heard" someone "could" cheat then we'd all be better off.

Its not the tracks that should be paying the PROTEST Fee for checking a motor! It the racer, if you think somethings fishy, "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS"! We do need a wire rules, if you don't have a wire wrap rule someone will rewrap a motor that reads legal and is FASTER! If you have the rule, it is less likely someone will try to break rules! NO rules leave gray areas and as we found out at the Snowbirds, someone will push the GRAY area!

Problem with wire length...machine wound motors have different wire lengths..thats why we are getting different inductance readings..some winds are tight and some are loose...so how do you come up with wire length? Inductance is where its at with these motors! someone needs to step up and make a rule..and yes you are gonna step on someones toes! but it has to be done..and it needs to be done quick.

Set the wire gauge and wire length rule. Inductance can be changed with many different variables.

All of these motors are hand wound anyways. This will allow the smaller compaines without millions like putnam (who already did), EA, Express, etc. the oppurtunity to buy blanks and hand wind them themselves and sell them under their label. Basically what 19t was. I don't really see any other way to make it a level playing field with the growth of bl technology.

With this, the initial cost of the motor might rise however there will be no need to buy 10 to find 1.

They are all handwound, it just matter's who is winding them.

-Adam

After reading the last month and half worth of all these threads here's my prediction for BL racing.

Certain people and/or organizations are going to take something that isn't broken and has never been broken and "fix" it until it is completely run into the ground.

It's really a bummer.

After reading the last month and half worth of all these threads here's my prediction for BL racing.

Certain people and/or organizations are going to take something that isn't broken and has never been broken and "fix" it until it is completely run into the ground.

It's really a bummer.

Well said Pat I agree 100%.

After reading the last month and half worth of all these threads here's my prediction for BL racing.

Certain people and/or organizations are going to take something that isn't broken and has never been broken and "fix" it until it is completely run into the ground.

It's really a bummer.

Agreed...It already appears that the other manufacturers are not interested in making equal motors according to Joe's (swtour) answer to my previous post. If things are opened up for next years Nat's and get out of hand::( the end result will not be pretty.

Joe Retherford

Roar has no rules for brushless racing so to say it isn't broken is false. The fact that they have no rules is the broken part. Novak only motor rules while not what Roar has ever been about in the past would be better than no rules at all. No, our events haven't been broken but we have to wait to make sure what the track decides before every race to know for sure what the rules are going to be for each class.

I guess the question here is: Will Roar allow oval to be Novak motors only and if not what is the comprimise?