Hi I was wondering.Did some of the original Star Trek films live up to the quality of the Original series.I consider the Original series at its best a true classic.Did any of the films come close to that.For me Star Trek TMP TWOK TVH and Star Trek VI were enjoyable.Also did the Original actors carry and translate well over to the films.Guy S.

Being completely fair, TOS Trek was a mixed bag. No surprise I guess that the movie are too. I think you can take even the worst of the original cast movies, edit with ruthlessness, and you'd get an episode length film that's better than the worst TOS episode.

ST3 is a good case: lots of cool individual story ideas and sub-text, great sets, costumes, new ships, new intesting characters, but ultimately it's a gussied-up Spock's Brain with goofy Vulcan mystical mumbo-jumbo thrown in to distract from how vapid the plot actually is (parts of ST4 actually mock it).

John O.

Other than Khan (which has problems of its own), all of the Trek films have huge problems--I don't think any of them measure up to the best of the original episodes. For one thing the original show has dated in a way that's actually cool, while a lot of the elements of the movies haven't dated that well. You can find nice moments in all the films--in fact I'd argue that Trek III has the most "nice" moments of any of the films save Khan, it just suffers from an abominable plot.

First Contact was probably the best 2-part episode of TNG that never aired. It went a little too far with the laughs, but I found it totally enjoyable, and at least equalling "The Best Of Both Worlds" in terms of story.

STAR TREK II The Wrath of Khan is the best movie ever made.

I just had to say that.

Now, the Search for Spock is an example of how a movie
can go wrong when the studio listens to the fans.
They cried about Spock so much, the studio decided to
bring him back.
I think they should have stuck to their original idea of
having Kirstie Alley as Saavik take over for Spock.
They had a whole other story for III that was scrapped
to resurrect Spock. After 22 years, I can't remember what
it was, but I know it was out there.

I thought that Trek VI - The Undiscovered Country was quite good.

Huzz

Star Trek 5 would have made a good episode.:thumbsup::rolleyes:

I think that Undiscovered Country was the best Trek film.

TMP: was long and ponderous. Trek attemps to do 2001.
TWOK: was great IF you knew who Khan was. Great for fans, less so for the casual viewer. Also How can you have a really good action film when the two main adversaries (Kirk & Khan) never share a scene (other than a few, disjointed communications)?
TSFS: TWOK part II with and added reset button.
TVH: fine social commentary, but if I want to see San Fransisco, I'll go there. show me "Strange, new worlds"
TFF: Interesting concept, but it was hamstrung by a weak script and low production values.
TUC: Now this is Trek firing on all thrusters. Strong Characters, Social Commentary, Teamwork amongst our crew, everybody gets a scene to shine.
and the ship flies off into the sunset.

just my opinion, which means no more than any of yours

I'll add here that None of the Next Gen movies ever struck me as anything more than Glorified Episodes.

this partially because you had the same regime making the movies who made the series with no time passing between the end of one and the start of the next.

and mostly because the production value of the series was very high. It was hard to make the movie Enterprise(s) look any better than the TV version.

I think that Undiscovered Country was the best Trek film.I never cease to be amazed by this reaction. Apparently, all the characters landed on their heads in some adventure just before the movie begins; it's the only way I can explain why they all seem to be so ... stupid, for lack of a better word. How else does it take them so long to realize that a cloaked ship fired on the Klingons? Of course, everyone in this movie is as dumb as a bag of hammers. Of course the Klingons don't notice the great big velcro patch on Kirk's back, even though it can be tracked by the Enterprise from ridiculous distances -- and of course they just incarcerate people in the same clothes they're in when they are arrested without searching them for weapons, contraband, or ... oh, I don't know, some ridiculous fabric patch that sends out some sort of quadrant-spanning beep-beep-beep! The movie has scenes built around a single visual effect (the silly stunt with the mashed potatoes in the galley), procedures invented just so they could be violated (did you know that firing a phaser aboard the ship will set off an alarm? It does, you know! Well, except when it doesn't, of course ...) and silly jokes about how only Nixon could go to China, and everyone on the bridge frantically flipping through ridiculously dusty old books so they can cobble together some laughable Klingon sentences.

Sure, it does have some good stuff too, but it's honestly one of just a couple of the films I like less every time I see it.

Qapla'

SSB

Besides the phasers in the galley and the galaxy's most incompetent border guards, the scene that irritates me more each time I see it is the sickbay revelation of Valeris as the traitor. It sure is lucky for the good guys that she would walk into a blatantly obvious trap.

OK, I'll give you the books. that was a horrible gag.

Phasers in the Kitchen (or anywhere on board) makes sence to me.

OOps, the bad guys Musta Cheated! sorta like when bad guys take a semi-automatic wapon and alter it to full Auto. it happens

Not checking the clothes of a prisoner sentenced to a supposedly un escapable (or is that INescapable?) Prison? please see "Escape from New York" those sure look like street clothes to me.

Quadrant scanning? not hardly. They knew the prison was Rura penthe. I'd presume they'd know where that was. all they need it to do is let them know when and where our guys would get out from under the beaming dampener.

That the Klingons were overconfident that nobody would ever make it to the frontier is their own hubris.

it's all a work of fiction. I simply liked this work of fiction better than some of the other Trek films.

Please continue to feel amazed

You know, I loved TUC for a long time, but now it seems really dated to me. That's probably a result of the way the world's changed since the "two superpowers" era; the plot resonated so well at the time, but not so much at the moment. I still enjoy it, but it hasn't held up as well over time as some of the others.

TMP is the other one that really feels dated to me, but I think it's held up better over time. TVH gets a pass in that department, since most of it's set in a particular timeframe.

Yeah, watching TWOK and TSFS you can identify the 80s-era production, but I think both hold up fairly well.

The one thing I always give TFF: Even though it was bad in many ways, it had heart.

it's (Undiscovered Country) honestly one of just a couple of the films I like less every time I see it.

As a fan of the movie (it's my 2nd favorite of the series) I confess I agree with just about every comment you made, lol. And while I question whether any of the stupid moments you mention is any worse than any of the stupid moments in, say, TWOK, they are certainly in abundant supply.

I suppose I enjoy TUC because I like the whole end-of-the-cold-war theme, which the plot exploited to great effect in terms of Kirk conflicted emotions re: his old arch enemy the Klingons. TOS was of course created at the height of the Cold War, and several of the episodes played off of our emotions concerning that conflict. Seems fitting that one of the films should concern itself with the uncertain time which followed.

In any case, I find TUC entertaining enough dramatically, and interesting enough thematically, to overlook its sillier moments -- which pretty much describes my feelings about TOS in general.

I think THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY is like the episode "Courtmartial." Individual scenes work very well so they work on one viewing. Unfortunately, on multiple viewings the various logical and dramatic problems become more and more obvious.

Unfortunately, on multiple viewings the various logical and dramatic problems become more and more obvious.

Or, if you like the movie, they simply become easier to overlook.

On the other hand, you know what moment makes me cringe every time I see it? The beat in Khan when Chekov just happens to grab hold of a dangling seat belt conveniently labeled Botany Bay (when's the last time you saw the name of a vessel embossed on a seat belt)? This cringe-worthy moment segues almost immediately into another when Khan lifts Chekov off the floor courtesy of a conveniently placed handle on the front of Chekov's space suit.

I love TWOK, warts and all, and I wouldn't change a thing. Just know that once you start taking Trek to task for its occasional bursts of silliness and illogic that it's a very slippery slope.

Oh, all of the trek films have their share of plot holes.

I could never get past the point in TWOK that Khan or his minions (BTW - why were no other refugees that were of Khan's age? was he the only adult left with this group of very mature 15 yr olds) could fly a starship in 2-D much less 3-D. based on what? 15 year old technical manuals that only Khan read while in sickbay?

I doubt Kirk would have left him with that kind of info after that nasty "take over my ship and leave me in a pressure chamber" incident.

the stupid thing is...the movie with the tightest story plot wise? Probably "The Final Frontier". (if you can accept the whole "center of the Galaxy" conceit) The being wasn't God, but that's not as bad as the introduction of Sybok. They could have very easily made him an early Mentor of Spock and the drama would still have played with out the canon revision

when's the last time you saw the name of a vessel embossed on a seat belt)?

Come to think of it, I believe the name in question may have been applied via rub-on letters.

I could never get past the point in TWOK that Khan or his minions (BTW - why were no other refugees that were of Khan's age? was he the only adult left with this group of very mature 15 yr olds) could fly a starship in 2-D much less 3-D. based on what? 15 year old technical manuals that only Khan read while in sickbay?
Couldn't they have just read the updated manual aboard the
Reliant after they took control?

They could have very easily made him an early Mentor of Spock and the drama would still have played with out the canon revision
What canon revision are you talking about? When was it ever established that Spock didn't have a half-brother? Considering that Sarek would have to have been at least in his sixties when he married Spock's mother, it seems reasonable he had another wife.

If you really want to get picky, Kirk behaves pretty much like a 2-D commander up until Spock points that out about Khan. Then Kirk discovers the Z axis.

BTW, I don't care what others say. TUC, TSS and TVH are some of my faves, right after TWOK.

as mutch as the dissagreemants are going to start rolling in, I have to say my favorite classic star trek film is the first, star trek the motion picture.Yes it was a little slow at times and the action was all on the ship,But the original series had some great shows aboard the enterprise.It was good sci-fi thumbs up:thumbsup:

Spockbeard,
TMP is the most timeless. and I have admit, my opinion shot up several 100% after seeing the remastered edition.

Captfrank,
How would they Find the manual (supposing one existed.)

It would have been more logical to show coerced former crewman manning the critical systems. Plenty of eels to go around.

BEBruns,
Yeah, they never stated he didn't have a brother...so the canon remark was incorrect. but it was awfully "All my Children"..when it didn't need to be.

TMP is the most timeless.

No question. The first Trek feature is slick with polish and brimming with lofty good intentions, and it's a shame the end result is so relentlessly dull. Alas, this last part is a cardinal sin where movies are concerned.

it was awfully "All my Children"...

Wait'll you see the next one, lol.

Wait'll you see the next one, lol.

OK, you've got to stop that. Either don't mention you know something or spill the beans. Otherwise, a few of us may be payin' a visit... ;)

Yup The undiscovered country was the best Trek ever put out on film,just an opinion. The other movies were ok ,and the series was great for 60s retro though. Good writing but weak effects though good for the time. I'm a LIS fan,just ask me lol. The original cast went out like the professionals they were. The effects and soundrack were outstanding. The Klingon interacting and the sneaky Romulans were great. Kirk's last comment "second star to the right and strait on till morning" a line from Peter pan was a good added touch. Great movie,great storyline.