I saw the DVD of the movie Serenity and found it to be surprisingly good.

I had not heard either of the movie or the TV show Firefly upon which it was based.

I guess that's why the TV show was canceled and the box office for the movie was so-so.

They were canceled because you'd never heard of them...?


What happened w/the series is that FOX didn't care enough about it to stand behind it like they should have. That and issues w/the series being pre-empted by the World Series. There were also three episodes that were never aired because FOX canceled it well before the series should have ended. Plus, they aired the episodes somewhat out of order.

It's sad that the movie didn't do better in theaters, but at least it did well on DVD sales, as well as world-wide.

If you liked Serenity, odds are good you'll like Firefly even more. I bought the episodes for pretty cheap and they're well worth having.

I also didn't watch the show when it was on and only came to it after the corpse was already cold in the ground. But I think I'm a late convert 'cuz when I watched the final episode, I was deeply bummed it was all over ...and regretful that I didn't support the show when it was broadcast.

The characters are great, with believable relationships; solid stories with real themes and complex sub-text, artful settings and costumes ...was art/magic of a sort that's rare on TV. Sad it was so short....

John O.

Just further proof that Fox execs have the brains of dried tribbles.

They supposedly admitted it was a mistake to cancel Firefly after it was too late to take it back.

But let's face it, Fox's history with sci fi/fantasy genre shows is basically catch-and-release. How they let X-Files last so long, I'll never know.

How dare you slander dried tribbles, John!

Now, if you'd said they had the brains of dried tribble DROPPINGS...and since tribbles don't poop...

I wonder how much of this was the World Series. I remember there was once a show about a hospital in space. It premiered during the playoffs. By the time the World Series was over the show had been canceled.

What happened w/the series is that FOX didn't care enough about it to stand behind it like they should have. That and issues w/the series being pre-empted by the World Series. There were also three episodes that were never aired because FOX canceled it well before the series should have ended. Plus, they aired the episodes somewhat out of order.

It's sad that the movie didn't do better in theaters, but at least it did well on DVD sales, as well as world-wide.

I _tried_ to watch it when it was broadcast, but the broadcasts were so spotty that I could never work up a viewing "habit" so to speak. I kind of liked it on Fox, but REALLY liked it when I got the Firefly DVD's. From what I understand, the DVD sales from both the series and the movie were very good indeed -- I don't understand why they have not gotten around to making more. Everyone I've turned onto this show/movie has been quite surprised at the quality of the stories and the actors, and the arc Joss Whedon was working on.

I, too, felt a sense of sadness when I viewed the last episode and realized "this is it" ... and was more than pleased to see an attempt at a wrap up to the series with the movie.

Although I really would have liked to know more of the back story with the Preacher! He seemed to know quite a bit about things...

--Henry

Although I really would have liked to know more of the back story with the Preacher!
No, you don't. Learning more about his background would just weaken the character. The fact that he has a mysterious and ominous background is the point of the character.

No, you don't. Learning more about his background would just weaken the character. The fact that he has a mysterious and ominous background is the point of the character.

Well, I think Wheedon would have given out more info over time... he just did not have enough time, and adding more to the movie would have made it confusing to new viewers.

"Serenity" was a very interesting blend of "just enough" for the folks that were already familiar with the television series, yet "not too confusing" to people that had never seen the show.

Like has been said before, though, it's a pity Fox handled it the way they did. Shows just don't have a chance anymore. My wife caught a marathon of "Jericho" the other day. I only got to see a bit of it -- but it was MORE than enough to have me order it right away from the ole' Netflix account! I never even KNEW about the program -- likely because of the name! And it still sounds like a stupid name for a progam to me that is not running on Sunday morning between Joel Osteen and the 700 club!

--Henry

I wonder how much of this was the World Series. I remember there was once a show about a hospital in space. It premiered during the playoffs. By the time the World Series was over the show had been canceled.Fox used anything as an excuse to pre-empt Firefly. Joss Whedon has stated they never understood or respected the show, mostly because it didn't fit in with their sports and "jiggles and giggles" programming (shows like Married With Children) which is why they sabotaged it from the beginning by running episodes out-of-order (the pilot was the fourth episode aired) and constantly moved it's time slot. Considering Fox's attitude regarding the series, it's a miracle it ever saw the light of day.

Well, they had to at least show some of the series.
After all Serenity was their reason for canceling Dark Angel.
They said they only had the budget to support one or the other, and since Joss was hot at the time (having Angel and Buffy on the air then as well) they were going with Serenity.
They were already getting hammered by all the Dark Angel fans.
If they wouldn't have at least put up the show of airing Serenity they would have gotten it even worse.

(the pilot was the fourth episode aired)
Actually, the pilot was the 11th and final episode aired.

Actually, the pilot was the 11th and final episode aired.

Yup, the premier was the last episode aired. I was a fan from the get-go and it was very frustrating to find the show preempted or moved every week. I'm glad I have the DVD's. I turned my kids into fans as well as at least 1/2 dozen others who never saw or heard of the show when it aired. No one I have introduced to Firefly has not liked it, that says something for the quality of production.

I hope someday there will be a nice sized styrene model of Serenity.

No, you don't.
Yes, *I* do, thanks. ;)

While I get the point of what you're trying to say - total disclosure of Book's past - I would have liked to have gotten a bit more here and there. Not the complete background, necessarily, but some more would have been nice. Heck, they could have even given us a full-disclosure on his background in his last story - something wherein his past is revealed, yet forces him to sacrifice himself for the rest of the crew would have been kind of a nice way to have him go out other than how they did it in Serenity. :(

I think there are enough clues to gather that maybe Book was himself an Operative for the Parliament. Probably served many years and reached a very high level. Then for whatever reason, he'd had enough and because of his distinguished service, they let him go and start a new life. But he kept a couple perks along the way such as priority status at Alliance medical facilities.

The show got the short-shift down here too - buried in the after 11pm slot... and because there was no advertising for it I missed the first couple of eps :(
Happy to say I've seen them all now, thanks to the box set, but it left me wanting more. Expecially after Serenity. Would've been interesting to see how the crew fared after that.

Actually, the pilot was the 11th and final episode aired.

And they promoted it with the line "See how it all began!" :rolleyes:
I'd have liked to see how it all began FIRST, where it was made to be shown.

I wonder how much of this was the World Series. I remember there was once a show about a hospital in space. It premiered during the playoffs. By the time the World Series was over the show had been canceled.

"Mercy Point," I think it was called. Pretty sure it was cancelled mostly because it sucked big time. The pilot was rather ludicrous, with many people in the hospital being infected by a computer virus. :freak:

Some things in the movie were confusing.

What killed the pilot near the end?
Why kill off a major character if there was some hope of continuing?

What killed the pilot near the end?
Why kill off a major character if there was some hope of continuing?

I think that's more of a Joss Wheedon thing than anything else -- from what I understand, here and there he will KILL a major character - just for the "drama" value of doing so! If you were a fan well, that point in the film was a REAL jolt!

I mean, he couldn't kill off Jayne -- we all know he's got to live out his old age where he's a hero -- on Canton with the Mudders! :)

--Henry

Some things in the movie were confusing.

What killed the pilot near the end?
Why kill off a major character if there was some hope of continuing?

The following Reaver ship shot a spke that killed Wash

Joss said he had to have a death since htey had just flown through the battle nd crash landed. If everyone survived that then the viewer would get the feeling that they could all survive anything and the feelings would not be as intense.

With Wash dead you didn't know if anyone else would survive. During the battle it looked like they were all going to die
Zoe - cut in the back
Kaylee - poison darts
Simon - gutt shot
River - dragged off by Reavers


No Disney ending here folks. Yes I hated Joss for killing Book and Wash but I love how he keeps us guessing.

Nathan Fillion posted on his MySpace page a while back...

Please don't ask if there's going to be more Firefly...'cause there isn't!

Please don't ask if there's going to be more Firefly...'cause there isn't!
And that is the saddest thing I have ever heard spoken for television programming.:(

Serenity? Firefly? Never heard of them.

Actually, the pilot was the 11th and final episode aired.Ah, sorry. I discovered the show in syndication on Sci-Fi, so I never saw it when it was on Fox. I'd read somewhere that the pilot aired fourth.

Ah, sorry. I discovered the show in syndication on Sci-Fi, so I never saw it when it was on Fox. I'd read somewhere that the pilot aired fourth.
Well, now there's your problem! You're reading!! Horrible!! Why don't you go watch TV or build a model or something?? :p

The following Reaver ship shot a spke that killed Wash

Joss said he had to have a death since htey had just flown through the battle nd crash landed. If everyone survived that then the viewer would get the feeling that they could all survive anything and the feelings would not be as intense.

With Wash dead you didn't know if anyone else would survive. During the battle it looked like they were all going to die
Zoe - cut in the back
Kaylee - poison darts
Simon - gutt shot
River - dragged off by Reavers


No Disney ending here folks. Yes I hated Joss for killing Book and Wash but I love how he keeps us guessing.


Agreed.
With Wash getting killed like that, you honestly had no idea if anyone would make it out alive. Usually with a movie, you know the heroes will eventually win out, it's just a question of how they do it.
The movie can build some tension and doubt, but there is usually a part of your brain saying "they won't die, the need them for the sequel".
But when Wash was killed, especially out of the blue like that. It really put some doubt in your head.
I still remember it vividly. I had avoided the spoilers and saw the movie in the theater.
When that scene played out, I was honestly in complete shock for a few seconds.
Then I started thinking that Joss might bring the whole thing closure by killing them all.
And it really played out that way in the movie, up until the tide turned.

Alan Tudek said, right at the beginning of production, he said to Joss, "Ya know, if you're going to kill anyone, I'm afraid it'll have to be Wash. Maybe as early as season 2. It'll be the biggest shock."

I think there are enough clues to gather that maybe Book was himself an Operative for the Parliament.

After I watched Serenity a few weeks ago, I came to that conclusion myself. I think The Operative was intended to be a look at a younger Shepherd Book. It wouldn't supprise me to find out that Joss Whedon had in mind that Book should meet/battle/die at the hands of a younger version of himself in the course of the series unfolding. When Mal stands on the loading ramp near the end of Serenity, I half expected him to invite The Operative aboard ...but no, I think he's got some deep spiritual healing to do first... ya, he's Book alright.

John O.

Well, now there's your problem! You're reading!! Horrible!! Why don't you go watch TV or build a model or something?? :pYeah, I get into more trouble that way... :rolleyes:

Ah but with Joss it is too simple a solution for Book to have been an operative.

There is a comic book series coming out soon written by Joss about Book. now we shall see what was in his past.

When Mal stands on the loading ramp near the end of Serenity, I half expected him to invite The Operative aboard
John O.

I had that same thought..

There is a comic book series coming out soon written by Joss about Book.

If it's anything like his other Firefly comics, it might be time for him to move on to other things. The artwork is top notch, but without the chemistry of the real live actors, the last set of comics where just a bunch of pretty renderings of the cast without a lot of story, emotion, or sub-text to even make go back for a second look.

I'd rather see him pitch a MOW with Ron Glass in it as a sort of Firefly pre-quel.

John O.

I still think that a profit could be made by producing direct-to-DVD movies. Futurama was as dead as Firefly but it went back into production to produce direct-to-DVD movies based on its reruns and DVD sales. Stargate SG-1 has a few coming out. Heck, I saw a trailer for some direct-to-DVD feature starring Nathan Fillion and Katee Sackhoff (White Noise 2).

Whedon might have to swallow his pride a bit and work with a smaller budget and scope, but I'd actually prefer that. It was the characters and dialogue that got me instantly hooked on Firefly, and I think Serenity sacrificed those quiet moments for spectacle and action.

Perhaps go the Sanctuary route and shoot a lot of greenscreen and sell webisodes.

I'd be happy with 100 minutes of the Serenity crew sitting around the mess table and talking. I'd take a radio drama at this point.

Shawn Marshall
Portland, Oregon

I still think that a profit could be made by producing direct-to-DVD movies.I'd buy one, for what it's worth.

Qapla'

SSB

Whedon might have to swallow his pride a bit and work with a smaller budget and scope, but I'd actually prefer that. It was the characters and dialogue that got me instantly hooked on Firefly...

Completely agree. I've actually said in other threads that it was the characters which tipped my opinion about accepting the ugly design of the ship. Had the show suck eggs, I wouldn't have given Serenity (the ship) two sloppy strips of styrene. Tell me a good story and not only will I forgive a lot, but I'll actual embrace the storyteller's mis-steps and compromises as part of the tourtured path to the good story - that's what made TOS Trek so good.

John O.

I still think that a profit could be made by producing direct-to-DVD movies. Futurama was as dead as Firefly but it went back into production to produce direct-to-DVD movies based on its reruns and DVD sales. Stargate SG-1 has a few coming out. Heck, I saw a trailer for some direct-to-DVD feature starring Nathan Fillion and Katee Sackhoff (White Noise 2).

Whedon might have to swallow his pride a bit and work with a smaller budget and scope, but I'd actually prefer that. It was the characters and dialogue that got me instantly hooked on Firefly, and I think Serenity sacrificed those quiet moments for spectacle and action.



I don't think Joss is the problem.
I am sure he would get behind anything that would put it back out to the public.
The problem is, getting someone willing to bankroll it.
And most routes are complicated with other players.
FOX still controls the TV rights for Firefly. So a TV movie is out.
Universal still holds the movie rights I believe.
So, unless one of those two can be convinced to either produce something, or relinquish their hold, nothing else can be done.

I prefer to believe it is a matter of "when" rather than "if." Could be wrong -- I keep thinking I've got to be wrong sometime, but I might be mistaken ...

Qapla'

SSB

I don't think Joss is the problem.
I am sure he would get behind anything that would put it back out to the public.

My hope, too, is that Whedon would want to produce more movies or episodes if a studio bankrolled it. It's just that I doubt he'd be given a $30-40 million dollar budget again. He did a great job on Serenity with what would be a fairly modest budget for a sci-fi spectacle, and he managed to shoot it in L.A. with a premium crew. I read that he took great pride in keeping it local, in the U.S.

If Universal was to say, here's $5 million to produce a direct-to-DVD sequel, would Whedon refuse because such a low budget might necessitate shooting it in HD in Canada or something?

I've never heard how many Firefly and Serenity DVDs were sold. A 2005 USA Today article said they'd sold half a million Firefly sets. At $20 wholesale that would be around a $10 million return. If they got $10 per disc for a direct-to-DVD sequel they'd have to sell another half a million to cover the budget. That wouldn't include TV and international rights.

Makes perfect financial sense to me!

Shawn Marshall
Portland, Oregon

I've never heard how many Firefly and Serenity DVDs were sold.
Well, let's put it this way, the only reason that Serenity was green lit was because of the quantity of Firefly sets that were sold. :thumbsup:

Doubt it could be shot for $5 mil.
I don't think the actors would work that cheap.

As for DVD sales, I too am curious.
Too bad no one tracks total DVD sales like they do for CDs.

I am pretty sure the movie probably sold more DVDs than it did theater tickets.
And it came in somewhere around break-even between domesting and international release.
So with al lthe new fans that have found it through DVD, I am sure that a second movie could make money.
But it is the studio that needs to be convinced.

The problem is Firefly boxset profits go to FOX
The movie Serenity DVD profits go to Universal

I tried to watch it when it first aired and I remember thinking how lame the ship looked. Now that I like the show I really like how the ships looks.

As we ruminate on the financial viability of Universal resurrecting a sci-fi property with a rabid and devoted fan base, Sony has financed a second direct-to-DVD sequel to Starship Troopers:

http://io9.com/360061/starship-troopers-iii-actually-based-on-heinlein-novel-this-time

I liked the Starship Troopers feature film and bought the original DVD and the special edition, but I wasn't under the impression that it made much money theatrically, especially compared to its budget. Yet Sony financed (an apparently horrible) direct-to-DVD sequel, and that did well enough to warrant another sequel that might end up being decent.

If they made enough money on the horribly-received, Phil Tippitt-directed Starship Troopers II to greenlight another one, I'm thinking there must be a way for Universal to turn a profit on some Firefly direct-to-DVD features.

Shawn Marshall

...I really like how the ships looks.


If John P can't get me on that bandwagon, ain't nobody gonna.

Love the show...

Maybe they should go to the Sci-Fi channel.....Oh, I forgot. Their schedule is filled up with that Sci-Fi favorite "Professional Wrestling".

Maybe the Spike Channel then.....Oh, I forget. Their schedule is filled up with man favorite CSI.

Maybe they should go to the Sci-Fi channel.....Oh, I forgot. Their schedule is filled up with that Sci-Fi favorite "Professional Wrestling".

Maybe the Spike Channel then.....Oh, I forget. Their schedule is filled up with man favorite CSI.

I get that you made that post to take some shots at those channels.
But to stay on topic, they can't shop the show to any TV network.
FOX holds the TV rights.
Unless FOX sells those rights, it can only be produced for TV by FOX.

FOX holds the TV rights. Unless FOX sells those rights, it can only be produced for TV by FOX.

...and yet, they've already admitted that it was a mistake to cancel the show (though I couldn't find a real quotable source). Even with a royalty paid to Fox by whomever wants to produce it, I don't see the hold up except the desire by anyone new to spend their money on another stab at it.

I think everyone, but a few fans still living in a fantasy land where they think the show's gonna get a resurrection, has moved on.

In the Firefly extras, there are comments to the fact that they were afraid from the get-go the show would/could be cancelled at any time. I think that accounts for the sweetness and intensity of the show, and why it's such a gem; they were trying to squeeze their best work in before the party was over.

John O.

^^ I agree. Only those who are delusional are still thinking it will come back. If it were that obvious to the studio, like Family Guy for example, it would be back on the air. Face it... no matter how much the fans love the show, the chances of it going back into production are extremely few.

I would love to see Serenity flying again, but I don't expect it.... ever.

Maybe they should go to the Sci-Fi channel.....Oh, I forgot. Their schedule is filled up with that Sci-Fi favorite "Professional Wrestling".

Maybe the Spike Channel then.....Oh, I forget. Their schedule is filled up with man favorite CSI.I get that you made that post to take some shots at those channels.
But to stay on topic, they can't shop the show to any TV network.
FOX holds the TV rights.
Unless FOX sells those rights, it can only be produced for TV by FOX.Actually, the Sci-Fi Channel already holds rights to broadcast Firefly--they even ran a marathon on President's Day. Many fans were hoping it would lead to Sci-Fi producing new episodes but, obviously, it didn't happen.

Everyone was telling Joss to get over it and move on after the series was cancelled, but he never gave up and four years later, Serenity. However, I would have to agree that the chances are VERY slight.