I was talking to someone and they made the comment "How many green cars do you really want to own?" It made me think. Green Machines are all the rage but at somepoint won't they all pretty much just look the same and the prices drop?

Probably on these newer releases, as they are being produced in much more quantity now, compared to the first release or two which had only 70 or so of each car at most, one of the 1st release mustangs just sold today on epay for just south of $500 and another has bids approaching $400. For those completist collectors out there, the early cars in my opinion will always hold their vaue if not increase more over time as that appears to be the trend, all supply and deman with the early ones. The newer ones are always expensive at first, but wait a month or two and you can get the same cars for half price.

I agree.
The early 1 of 50 and 1 of 70 GM's will probably retain their value, but the later series are more like 1 of 200 or more, and are remakes for the most part. That is why they do not fetch as much.
People are trying to grab as many early ones as possible. That is why the prices are so high right now. Really only a handful of people causing these high prices.

I was lucky enough to find a early bannered GM but the casing corner was broken. I still like it even if it isn't a $500 car.

Not all the car bodies will be green, some of the newer releases will have different Green Machine characteristics. Of course, those characteristics will be still be green.

For all the claims of more plentiful Green Machines I have never found one in the stores. I have seen several new unopened cases with no GM

I think the lower quantity ones will always be worth a decent amount. Probably not $500, but I wouldn't expect them to drop below $50 unless GL goes out of business.

I think it already has to some degree. I have a select few GMs (4 right now) and I don't really care to add too many or complete sets since they are somewhat pricey and hard enough to find some regulars. Still there are many more castings to cover and it only takes a couple hundred fanatic collectors to keep the GM market hot since that's all they are producing on the high end.

It's gonna burst real soon. Me and several collectors that I talked to here have all say, " How many green cars can you make, or have in your collection?

I will agree on the first couple series castings that will be a good trade piece, or resale piece in the long run to the production numbers they might hold a value. You have to remember on thing even that other company that people on here buy , sell, and trade cars that were once valued at crazy prices, are not worth 1/3 of what they used to go for. I am talking about high end JL pieces. What can you do? The economy and prices of daily living with play a big role in the hobby we enjoy regardless

From the mind of Neekaveli

Edited!!!!!!!

I don't agree with you in entirety. Just look at White Lightnings. They were produced in virtually the same numbers, yet some of the most expensive ones from 10 years ago now sell for half or less than the top dollar they used to command only a few years ago. Only certain specific WLs retained their value and even some of the most difficult WLs to find don't sell for as significant a premium as you'd expect. I think certain GMs will rise to a certain level and stick there, because people are only going to pay so much for a hunk of diecast, plastic and rubber. I think the green theme will keep them from fully appreciating as well because if they produce multiple castings with the same green paint many collectors will just get the easier, cheaper, newer version.

I agree that variety is needed to keep GM's popular. At present I am looking for cooler rims to justify buying a GM. I just got the 07 Barrett Jackson Shelby Stang with Black Rims. That worked for me. GL needs to shake up
the GM formula. They will do that with the second Black Bandit release which will feature green rims/ base. The nice part is that GL does listen and will
probably read this post. You can count on GL being aware of what we think of their regular and Green Machine releases. The second Black Bandit release Green Machine Characteristics were voted on by Under The Hood Club members. Thats cool. Expect GL to switch and move as time goes by. They want their collector base to continue to be excited about all their releases.
I will post about this on the club site and see what the admins say about
future GM's.

Regards, DrDeal

IMO, the more of them that are out there ( more available due to more series made and thus more GM's out there) the more the value will even out on these. We've all seen this with WL's. I know that I overpaid on a lot of them (WL's) when they first came out. Now that there are so many available, I think it forces collectors to focus on some instead of trying to get them all. I am way less interested in them now, esp since RC2 took over. GL reminds me of the early PM days and has brought the fun back in it for me.
Anyway, I'm not going on any spending sprees this time. Just get 'em when I can and not worry about the rest. Not getting hooked on the compulsion syndrome again. I want it to stay fun.

It will cycle just like every other commodity. It is supply/demand but also other economics. As was said earlier, some ppl may suffer higher living expenses and decide to sell, and if that happens in any volume, prices will drop. If that continues for a length of time, more buyers will appear due to lower prices as they will see the investment potential. Then the economy improves and those earlier sellers say hey I can now afford to buy back my (insert GM) and they do, but at a higher price. Now that prices start to climb those investment type collectors will decide it is time to take the profits from their investments and some more product hits the market. Of course, supply is probable the primary component here, so the earliest lowest productions will command the highest prices, but Mustangs seem to bring more than Camaros in GM. This is not exactly how it happens, but there is a cycle.

I don't agree with you in entirety. Just look at White Lightnings. They were produced in virtually the same numbers, yet some of the most expensive ones from 10 years ago now sell for half or less than the top dollar they used to command only a few years ago.

What exactly are the numbers on a WL? I have never collected many JL cars do to the fact that they are in the 1/72nd scale category but i did pass up a ton of whites unless they were ones i knew i could trade (even with the really good ones that was tough). I was told they were in the 10% of the run range (so i figured it was abt 2500 per white) , and from seeing as many as i have (not so many since the revamp of the company) but the cardboard card ones seemed to be everywhere.

IMO JL does not even come close to GL quality & i believe thats the reason people are moving over from JL & HW to GL, the rumor is if you have 5 mill you can buy JL from ertl. JL chopped there heads off with the Canadian Dump Bin Debacle 2 years ago and thats one of the reasons alot of whites hit rock bottom they were rare till the thousands of WL that were in a warehouse somehere finally seen the retail market then the so called rare ones were not that rare.

We will probably never get true answers on post 96 hunt production or WL production but i dont belive anyone has or will have special pieces in that 200range, they have the more we make the more they buy mentality.

Whats attractive to most on GL and Green Machines is that they are individually NUMBERD so you KNOW how many are out there and that means alot when it comes to VALUE, FUTURE VALUE and COLLECTIBLITY.

JL WL's are nowhere near 10%, that would be 1-2 per case. They used to be 1 in 3 cases, and now seem to be 1 in 4. GMs are about te same.

Edited!!!!!!

What exactly are the numbers on a WL? I have never collected many JL cars do to the fact that they are in the 1/72nd scale category but i did pass up a ton of whites unless they were ones i knew i could trade (even with the really good ones that was tough). I was told they were in the 10% of the run range (so i figured it was abt 2500 per white) , and from seeing as many as i have (not so many since the revamp of the company) but the cardboard card ones seemed to be everywhere.

WL #'s are 1-3% max, and the 3% was rare. With production runs of 5-10K, they are in the same realm as GMs and provide an equal assessment in my opinion of what the market will bear.

IMO JL does not even come close to GL quality & i believe thats the reason people are moving over from JL & HW to GL, the rumor is if you have 5 mill you can buy JL from ertl.

Wish I had 5 mil, but then I'd probably waste it on other things like 1:1 cars, vacations, luxury items etc but I digress. One thing you must remember, is GL just started up in the past 2 years. They had a nice benchmark in JL to copy and correct some flaws, but GLs are not without flaws either. As for JLs, yes early versions are not too flattering compared to what comes out today, but I don't think the current production JLs are that far off in quality from GLs.

JL chopped there heads off with the Canadian Dump Bin Debacle 2 years ago and thats one of the reasons alot of whites hit rock bottom they were rare till the thousands of WL that were in a warehouse somehere finally seen the retail market then the so called rare ones were not that rare.

How so? They had stock they couldn't move. From what I read, US Major Retailers (read WalMart) told RC2 they wouldn't take delivery of the cardboard JLs as they were resetting their aisles for the new plastic clam shell packages so RC2 had little choice in sending them to Canada where they were welcomed with open arms to starving collectors for the most part. Whatever the actual reason was, the stock had to go and they did what they had to do. If those same cars were distributed in the US, it would have had the same impact on secondary market prices, so I don't buy that argument at all.

We will probably never get true answers on post 96 hunt production or WL production but i dont belive anyone has or will have special pieces in that 200range, they have the more we make the more they buy mentality.

Only Mattel has this attitude, because they are a quantity business. JLs are documented 1% chase runs and many production runs are right on the packages so some WLs are clearly far less than 200 in quantity.

Whats attractive to most on GL and Green Machines is that they are individually NUMBERD so you KNOW how many are out there and that means alot when it comes to VALUE, FUTURE VALUE and COLLECTIBLITY.

Yes you know how many are out there, but we've seen other instances where unnumbered pieces are produced, or numbers are duplicated. Arguably though this should not be significant but it can happen. I still like the numbering scheme for more of a credibility thing, and it adds interest in people looking for certain serial numbers so that isn't a bad thing.

However, value and future value mean nothing to me and I believe this to be true to many collectors. I open almost all of my cars. I'd rather have the chase runs not be known. Produce many of them and let me get them cheaply! I've invested far too much in my collection and I'm at the point now where I'm not interested in paying the price to keep adding to it.

JL normal releases are nowhere close to only 4000-6000, the are closer to 12k -15k per unless its like the dukes at 10k but still to have 1 in 4 at 10k would mean that WL are 1%of the run because thats about 2x the GL run and to be the same u need to cut the % by 50% to keep it equal.


Where are you getting this from? Most JL runs are 10K or less and I don't think there has been a run greater than 10K in many, many years.

GMs are 2% of a regular production run. WLs are 1% of a regular production run since RC2 took over. These are indisputable facts.

Well, they are made in the same factory, which could (and most likely does) account for some of the QC issues. Personally, for me, I'd still rather spend my $ on GL's

Edited!!!!!

Edited!!!!!

I will agree to dissagree on this subject, like i said b4 the only reason i picked up a handfull of the mass qty of whites i seen because certain people wanted them and and i knew i would not be stuck with them. At countless toy shows i have set up at with my Kustoms when i asked abt if they collect JL or need whites the answer was always that overproduced stuff nope its everywhere.....

I think they were only looking at a certain segment of the JL market. Sure the "overproduced" cars that came from those dump bins appeared that way, but down here, many collectors never saw them and would have jumped at the chance to get them. If they are produced in the same numbers as other runs, then it's hard to consider them overproduced.

I am just going by what i have heard from countless people and a few WL collectors, i never cared for JL as there stuff is abt 1/72scale and the qaulity is not there (i admit some of the newer stuff is gettting better)

I never actually measured a JL for scale, and couldn't even begin to tell you how to do it, but they are considered to be 1/64 scale. Arguably some are more to scale to others, but we're splitting hairs when the margin is only off a little bit.


Its all good, its nice to have a forum for a civil debate. :thumbsup:

:wave:

Buy what u like, like what u buy but dont buy it just because the make it is my motto.

There is no reward for brand loyalty. :thumbsup:

Well when say 1/10 of ur stock is actually released to retail when the mass majority of peeps think its ALL out there, that gives the PERCEPTION of RARITY. (thats where communication with your customer base comes in) So the BWF Camaro that was 300-400 car b4 they dumped thousands upon thousands of JL in dump bins in Canada, dosent turn out to be so rare when people are finding 5+ in dump bins up north. There were others to but that was the big one, as it was from what i remember from hearing the one to find and keep a eye out for. Sure they havent been the only company to do that but they did it on the biggest scale.

This is not a new occurrence, only the geography and timing changed. It's always a supply and demand thing, whether the market for a certain item drops in a week or a year, it's going to happen. The first ones out the "Gotta-have-it-nows" bid stupid amounts and this sets the bar too high. It was unrealistic to expect that the BWF Camaro WL would remain a 300-400 car forever, and because a couple bidders with more money than brains set the bar so high, it's no reason to condemn a whole company painting it as they did something intentional to distort the secondary market. This is simply untrue.

IMO to protect the integrity of the secondary market they created (with not releasing all the stock or at least telling there collectors what was up and y some were so rare) all the whites should have been pulled from them cases and Destroyed.

Wow I don't even know where to begin with this statement. The company owes no obligation to the secondary market. They sell things in the primary market. I think they threw a nice bone to Canada and for the most part it was well received. Hell $1 WLs in volume? Sign me up please! I've found 1 WL in the past TWO YEARS and some people up there were finding 40 or 50. I don't think they were too concerned with the secondary market imploding!

That turned alot of peopl off on JL since they didnt know if and when a repeat of that would or will happen again.

If this turned anyone off, they must have been collecting for the wrong reason. Of course, that's just my humble opinion. :wave:


Good Debate Bud!!!

Right back at ya!

I've been wondering the same thing about whether collecting GM's would grow old and when. I'm up to about 60 now, and have done GL promos for the company I work for. The problem with GM's vs WL's is that you can do a lot more with white accents than you can with green.

So far, the key to GM's is having a graphic design that "pops" on the green version, like the flames on the Max Wedge GM. That along with the ones where the production numbers were really low (40 to 70), is what makes them attractive to me. This seems to be what drives the value up in the market, too. The Mustangs also seem to have a great attraction among the GM collectors, right now. I'm wondering what the reaction will be when GL finally does 1/64th first generation Camaro's.

One comment on the JL's to Canada fiasco. I used to focus a lot on WL's. I have about 400 and a fair collection of higher value ones, but I only buy them now when I find them on the pegs (which is still rare). The Canada distribution really turned me off.

This is my view of this: Key retailers in the US (TRU, Walmart, Target, KMart, etc.) were sitting with their JL pegs empty when this occurred. I don't know why JL didn't work out a deal with one or more of these retailers. Instead, they went to a handful of outlets in Canada.

The problem with this scenario is that if the WL's had been distributed all over the US, they would have ended up in the hands of many collectors who typically would have found one or two of them. Instead they ended up in dump bins where there were many fewer collectors (I am not aware of there ever being a JL dumb bin in the US), so a few individual Canadian collectors ended up finding fairly large quantities of WL's when these dump bins hit.

When JL was part of Playing Mantis, it was a big part of a small company. Now, its "the pimple on the fanny of an elephant" at RC2. I'd guess RC2 will sell JL off at some point in time.

I hope Greenlight will come up with ways to keep the GM's interesting and relatively valuable. I like them, and we plan to do another promo next year with them.

Frank Hamilton

Hey Frank,
Can you share some pics of these past promos your company has done.
Would like to see them. I'm sure letting us know how to acquire any of the future ones would be cool too, if that is at all possible.

This may sound strange, but I'd rather stay anonymous with regard to that question. There are those who know me and the promos I've been involved in designing. The GL's I mentioned are released and have been on web sites and eBay, so you and others, I'm sure have seen them. I only made the statement about doing them to underline my love for this new line of diecast.

Our company only gives them away at events, both internal and external. Our vendor, who is our intermediary with the manufacturer, also makes some available to the hobby channel. We've been doing this for ten years,with GL being the latest line of diecast we've used. All are pretty available on ebay at reasonable prices.

I never sell them, although I do occasionally trade some of the few I get to purchase for myself.

Thank you.
Frank Hamilton

According to my Sales Rep at Learning Curve, White Lightnings these days are 1%. :thumbsup:

Frank's car are one of the best releases in die cast today. He does the Lexmark cars. I have every car released so far. There are 25 regulars
(Hot Wheels/ Johnny Lightning and Greenlight), 8 White Lightnings and 2 Green Machines. The boxes all match and the paint is cool and always uses color in sweet ways to link with color copiers they are used to promote.
I am very happy to learn there will ge Greenlight Lexmarks again in 09.

Regards, DrDeal

The bubble burst for me when I picked up my first Greenlight Cuda. The plastic hardtops really turn me off. The color and finish doesn't match the rest of body. The seam between the roof and the body looks bad on cars with body color roofs. On the Cuda, the height is far too tall so the car has a cartoony look from the side. I realize they do it to save money (1 casting = 2 cars) but it doesn't change the fact that the hardtop version suffers. Unfortunately most of the Mopars GL is releasing are coming out in both covertible and "hardtop" versions so I don't see this changing.

I tried to jump on the GL bandwagon but was disappointed.

It will cycle just like every other commodity. It is supply/demand but also other economics. As was said earlier, some ppl may suffer higher living expenses and decide to sell, and if that happens in any volume, prices will drop.
I only buy a few certain castings anyways,but I have had to put a stop to almost all collectible purchases.With $3+ a gallon for gas and me having to spend $200 a week in gas it will only be the basic essentials for me. There have been quite a few other people I know to already do the same thing.
I`ve sold diecast since 96-97 and even up to 2003-04 I had over 100 regular people everyday I sold,to last year maybe 5 a day. Almost the whole market has dried up except for chase cars and only a few people go around spending their gas for them. I don`t really plan to sell off my collection though since I`ve already downsized from 14k plus to around 600[been selling them since 97,drastically size 2004].
With current inflation being drastically more than the normal 3-5% raise per year I really don`t see an end to higher prices for everything unless car manufacturers quite using oil by 30-50% within a year or 2 which I don`t see happening.