I have been talking with Mike @ WRP. We have been talking about making some Aftermarket Parts.Any ideas on what is needed would be a help.


Thanks ED

Ed,

Aluminum mounts such as fuel tank, radio receiver box, battery box, throttle/brake servo & RPM gauge display.

Motor Laydown mounts for clutch side.

Wish I had a mount that I could weld or mount somehow to a WCM on the left side. Mount the motor in a stand up or lay down fashon, but using the cluch mount bolts. That would take the motor mounting issue on the bottom out of the picture. Also this would put more weight on the left side of the car...

Wish I had a mount that I could weld or mount somehow to a WCM on the left side. Mount the motor in a stand up or lay down fashon, but using the cluch mount bolts. That would take the motor mounting issue on the bottom out of the picture. Also this would put more weight on the left side of the car...
Jim if the motor was mounted on the side.Would that change the plus or minus of an 1/2 inch for the center of the main frame rails.if so i have an idea.Is this for the cage car or not?Tim i will look into your ideas.Thanks guys.


ED

Ed,

Aluminum mounts such as fuel tank, radio receiver box, battery box, throttle/brake servo & RPM gauge display.

check out J&M Hobbies you would be suprised what he has in stock Bob :thumbsup:

I've been there twice today and I cannot locate these items. Can someone give me the link to the page because I'm stumped?:freak:check out J&M Hobbies you would be suprised what he has in stock Bob :thumbsup:

Jim if the motor was mounted on the side.Would that change the plus or minus of an 1/2 inch for the center of the main frame rails.if so i have an idea.Is this for the cage car or not?Tim i will look into your ideas.Thanks guys.


ED

Ed:
No matter how you mount the motor, be it on the clutch housing or on the bottom of the motor The spark plug must be within 1/2 inch of the center line.
Fred

Fred,

Correct, I don't want to move the motor, just the metal on the bottom to the side. That would be the only difference, that and the fact that the screws would no longer be in the way of the ground, and other matter hitting them. I think (can't say for sure) that if the mounting was by way of the four bolts on the cluch, it would be easier to adjust belt tension, as well as move weight to the left. Also, the cluch bolts are much thicker than the motor mount bolts.

I'm just toying with the idea. I could be racing up the wrong road, but that is what I like about this hobby. Some ideas work, and some don't...

Thanks for the input...

Ed:
No matter how you mount the motor, be it on the clutch housing or on the bottom of the motor The spark plug must be within 1/2 inch of the center line.
Fred

Fred you are right.Right now the motor sits within a 1/2 inch of center.If you mount it to the side rails. It will be not in the 1/2 inch spec i think.If so i can get around that.All i need is the dimension of the rail width.

Thanks ED

Tim we are working on the pages this week. Email me what you need and I will email you some pics. We have to build a page at a time with this server. It sucks. Sorry man

I've been there twice today and I cannot locate these items. Can someone give me the link to the page because I'm stumped?:freak:

Tim we are working on the pages this week. Email me what you need and I will email you some pics. We have to build a page at a time with this server. It sucks. Sorry man

Jeff can you FTP with your sever?

ED

Fred,

Correct, I don't want to move the motor, just the metal on the bottom to the side. That would be the only difference, that and the fact that the screws would no longer be in the way of the ground, and other matter hitting them. I think (can't say for sure) that if the mounting was by way of the four bolts on the cluch, it would be easier to adjust belt tension, as well as move weight to the left. Also, the cluch bolts are much thicker than the motor mount bolts.

I'm just toying with the idea. I could be racing up the wrong road, but that is what I like about this hobby. Some ideas work, and some don't...

Thanks for the input...

This idea has been around awhile. even done by Pro1 at one time but ended up not going into full production. and on WCM that someone modified to do this . This person then went and made another chassis and DIDN'T do it. why? don't know if factory WCM ever did it.
Not sure why it never has taken off. motor weight taken toll on mount , or excessive vibration from hanging out in air like that? I don't know.

Its been done before but they keep going away from it. why?

Mounting on left side of motor will not move the weight to the left side. The motor is static weight, mounting on left side will allow the motor to hang on the mount which will pivot at center of gravety. Bottom of mount will push the bottom of the shassis to the left and the top of the mount will pull the top of the chassis to the right penning the right side tires down just as hard sitting there. I have experimented on full size and scale cars on scales under each tire. Static weight Right to left front to rear has to have the weight package moved to change.
Just my 2 cents and experience.


Joey

I use a version of this in my chassies. I put a slotted plate in the frame rail on each side, and then use the lower 2 screws on the clutch housing to attach to a plate and a plate under the pull starter on the other side. The indexing of the pattern on the plates allow you to rotate the motor if you want to, and by lossening the 4 screws on the sides of the frame rails you can move the motor forward and backwards.
In fact the Super Mod that won the 1st points race for QSAC West in 08 had this configeration and was running a straight up motor.
Tom

I thought Brent's Gram Cracker motor mount was on the left side frame rails and they were slotted to adjust the belt .

HEY! Leave me out of this. LOL! All Gram Crackers are side mount engines.

I think what Joey is saying is whether the engine is mounted on the side or the bottom the static weight remains the same if the engine position is the same. I'm guessing but with a side mount it's probably easier to get to that 1/2 inch tolerance than with a bottom mount engine.

Mounting on left side of motor will not move the weight to the left side. The motor is static weight, mounting on left side will allow the motor to hang on the mount which will pivot at center of gravety. Bottom of mount will push the bottom of the shassis to the left and the top of the mount will pull the top of the chassis to the right penning the right side tires down just as hard sitting there. I have experimented on full size and scale cars on scales under each tire. Static weight Right to left front to rear has to have the weight package moved to change.
Just my 2 cents and experience.


Joey

I was thinking just this last night after thinking about it for awhile. side mount won't put all that weight on left side. you might gain alittle but that wieght is still hanging out there. probably why they have that rule about 1/2 inch from center line and percentages as well. anyways.

How do the side plate with slots go around the clutch housing? Sounds alot easier than the bottom bolts hitting the ground. Any pictures?

I am just getting into 1/4 scales. Would like to see pics of a gram cracker.

Joey

On a WCM, if you move the mounting to the side, you can then cut out the bottom plate and put in a brace tube or two (I was thinking) and add the plate back to the left side, thus moving the weight to the left without moving the motor off the center line.

Again, this is just some out loud thinking, not planning on doing it (yet). I might do something like that next year, but I want to get a full cage car anyway. So I just might get the cage and move all my parts to it, then play alittle with the other.

On a WCM, if you move the mounting to the side, you can then cut out the bottom plate and put in a brace tube or two (I was thinking) and add the plate back to the left side, thus moving the weight to the left without moving the motor off the center line.

Again, this is just some out loud thinking, not planning on doing it (yet). I might do something like that next year, but I want to get a full cage car anyway. So I just might get the cage and move all my parts to it, then play alittle with the other.

Jim is there a hole big enough in the stock WCM motor plate?For the clutch shoes to go threw.Also if mounted that way i don't think the shoes will engage.You would be losing an .125 for the thickness of the plate.The motor and clutch housing will sandwich the plate.You would need a longer bell or have to add a .125 spacer. On the inside of the housing near the bearing.To push the bell out I am not picking on you.Just my 2 cents.

ED

No problem Ed, and don't take this the wrong way, but I wouldn't mount the plate in between the cluch and the motor anyway. As I see it, The bolts would mount through the plate, then to the cluch as it is already mounted with the motor. A new bracket would need to be made to mount to the top rail, and the same for the bottom.

The tollerance would be very close, and I think the adjustment would be alittle less than it is now. This and the fact that the new bracket would have to be welded, or brazed in place. Then the lower plate would be removed, and a brace put in it's place.

Now the cluch bolts may have to be longer, but that should't be a problem.
This is way hard to explain in words, that which is rolling around in my head.

All Cracker cars have a side mount. The mount stays in the chassis along with the clutch bell when the motor is removed. The 4 clutch housing bolts are all that hold the motor. If I'm not mistaken the mount is held in by using 4 10-32 bolts. 2 on top rail and 2 on bottom rail. If anyone is attempting to do this, I would highly recommend checking for legality regarding +-1/2 inch for motor as all chassdis rails are not the same as a Cracker!
Also I didn't quite understand the post that referred to the motor "hanging" off the side and pinning the right side tires. Static weight is just that and unless the motor is flexing, it has absolutely no bearing on the right side traction! Weight that moves or revolves does make a difference as in the flywheel. Kind of a reason why lightened flywheels are not legal. Stub axles, drive cups, wheel hubs, and even wheel and tires DO make a difference!
Rattler...

Also I didn't quite understand the post that referred to the motor "hanging" off the side and pinning the right side tires. Rattler...

Correct!
Thats what the post was actually stating, that hanging the motor from the left side would not increase left side weight. Because the weight hanging over would keep the weight where it is statically. pinning was not a good choice of words but trying to explain weight package no matter how mounted would still be the center of the weight package. Now I'm confussed!!! Just couldn't find the right words.

Joey

Joey I don't think if the motor is mounted on a side plate or a bottom plate that it will change how the weight affects each side! Mounting the motor on a side plate will allow you to actually move the motor more to the left to within or actually closer to qsac's +-1/2 inch spec!

Rattler...