it was great to see you trackside teching motors and helping racers with problems...awesome customer support!


now anyone who was at the birds heard about a problems/rumors with guys doing some shady stuff to there 10.5 and 13.5 motors.....


1)cutting a tab off the timming ring to add even more timming than what you could if left with the tab in place?


2)taking wire off the stator on two of the three poles to get something closer to a 10.0 and a 13.0 instead of a 10.5 and 13.5....the range allowed now on your web site has a low and high end..if you clip some wire off the poles you will hit the low end of the range but still be legal???



i know you took all 10 A main cars and teched there motors.........without throwing any one driver under the bus...CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU FOUND? AND WHAT THINGS WE NEED TO LOOK FOR AND WHAT RULES NEED TO BE ADJUSTED TO KEEP THINGS FAIR FOR JOE PUBLIC RACER IN THE FUTURE...........


thanks for your time

bill AKA joe public

katfish ,the timimg ring isnt the only way to turn the timing up in the motors ,it is also being done internally!something else to think about !

I haven't heard of any of these things but I'll check with the guys. Both Charlie and Steve are back from Snowbirds, so it's best to email them directly with questions.

Adnan designed a motor resistance tester that they took with them to do motor checks---in addition to the inductance meter. Using both devices assures 99.9% compliance. I'll check with them and see what's new.

.....

If you want to yank the timing up why not use a different speedo?

ESC's like the SpeedPassion, Tekin, and Castle have adjustable software timing. I would rather do a legal adjustment than ruin my chances of getting DQ'ed for the race or longer.

the TEKIN doesn't have a adjustable timing function

If you want to yank the timing up why not use a different speedo?

ESC's like the SpeedPassion, Tekin, and Castle have adjustable software timing. I would rather do a legal adjustment than ruin my chances of getting DQ'ed for the race or longer.

i dont think this discussion is about trying to turn the timing up its about trying to put a end to the tinkering!

Also as far as I know the BRL and Thunder racing events only allow the Novak and LRP BL speed controls to keep the timing advancing to a minamum.

I haven't heard of any of these things but I'll check with the guys. Both Charlie and Steve are back from Snowbirds, so it's best to email them directly with questions.

Adnan designed a motor resistance tester that they took with them to do motor checks---in addition to the inductance meter. Using both devices assures 99.9% compliance. I'll check with them and see what's new.

neither inductance nor resistance will tell you if the timing has been illegally tampered with.

neither inductance nor resistance will tell you if the timing has been illegally tampered with.

The ROAR rules for spec racing did not outlaw motor timing adjustments, so no need to tech for them.

i dont think this discussion is about trying to turn the timing up its about trying to put a end to the tinkering!

Timing is one of the issues being discused. The timming rings are being altered to allow for more movement to adjust timing. Other methods of adjusting the timing in the motor are possible and dependant of your creativity.

I say skip with the tinkering and go with software based adjustments.

For the other forms of altering the motor, it is still cheating! And as far as I know, inductance and resistance checking will spot altered motors.

I won't debate the BRL or Thunder rules where a single manufacture is only allowed for motors/ecs's but I will say it will not last much Longer. There are too many players in the brushless market who are making or will make motors to meet the standards such as ROAR/IFMAR. Racers will buy motors other than that single maker allowed in the rules.

I own several B/L motors and esc's that would comply with the BRL/Thunder rules and I bought them not because of those rules, because of the quality of the products and customer service.

Plain and simple, the motors I looked at from the Top ten were all fully legal. Nothing on Inductance, resistance or the timing had been played with at all.

You can tell VERY easily if the timing has been jacked up just by looking at the sensors from the front of the motor. It's something ANYONE can see with their naked eye. Yes, I mean all of it, from shaving to making to new holes, to what ever, the "physical" position of the rotors in relation to the coils is easy to spot.

I'm planning on a write up for our site, and any other site to show you the in's and out's of cheating so we all know how to catch them. It's not as complicated to tech as anyone thinks.

Novak, I had a question about rumors/talk etc of special GTB's put in the hands of certain drivers at this race, were they proto's? or just rumors? Thanks for your help at the birds aswell, no questions asked nothing but wrenching and fixing the problems.

Novak, I had a question about rumors/talk etc of special GTB's put in the hands of certain drivers at this race, were they proto's? or just rumors? Thanks for your help at the birds aswell, no questions asked nothing but wrenching and fixing the problems.

Yes there were a certain group of drivers that received speed controls from Charlie, I think they were called customers.

If there was an Novak ESC issue Charlie or Steve did not hesitate to help their customers and I might add many who where not with a new speedo.:thumbsup:

This is one of the reason why they are considered one of the best in the business when it comes to customer service.



As far as the special stuff you can chalk that up to the rumor mill.

I saw a black heat sink on a GTB Charlie was working on, must have been off one of those "black helicopters" LOLOLOL

I saw a black heat sink on a GTB Charlie was working on, must have been off one of those "black helicopters" LOLOLOL
i bet that was worth 1/2 second on the track hahahaha. my buddy has been sponsored by novak for the last 2 yrs. and he runs the same speedos that i have. nothing special their.

I hear ya, they have great stuff!!!i bet that was worth 1/2 second on the track hahahaha. my buddy has been sponsored by novak for the last 2 yrs. and he runs the same speedos that i have. nothing special their.

We did "try" some new stuff in the ESC software. It didn't work , but we tried it. It may work at other tracks. The intention was that if it did work early on, we would make it available to ANYONE with an orange ESC installed in their car. That big box with the stickers on it, that was my ESC updater. Turns out the update wasn't right for 4 cell 10.5 and 13.5, but it did work half way decent for TC, and Mod Oval.

Honestly I don't think it's needed for the slower motors. Our guys did just fine using standard GTB's against the Timing advance ESCs that are currently available. (Oh Yeah, New's flash, Some ESC's add timing to the motor, though they call it something else).... :) I watched the cars with my own two biased eyes. Maybe it was the lack of sleep, maybe it was my biased. I don't know. No advnatage to either side when you gear them "correctly". I think timing is give some to get some. For every advantage there is a dis-advantage. No such thing as Free Power.

For every advantage there is a dis-advantage. No such thing as Free Power.

:thumbsup:

so from a novak person ,at the birds were the drivers gearing their cars as you would recomend or were they burning up a BL per race also what is the recomended temp for a 13.5/17.5 and what is the best temp for each,thanks.

I have been running BL for about a year and wondered what the life expectance may be. I realize that alot of variables figure into this. Besides the bearing wearing out, does the Rotor loose any of it magnetism after so many heat cycles?

The reason that I bring this up was at our local 160' flat oval yesterday, The first 2 places in 17.5 were won with motors fresh out of the package. This makes me wonder if the really fast racers are running motor for only so long then sell it and installs a new one.

Thanks in advance

My 13.5 is a year and a half old. I have a newer one and choose to run the older one more often.

My 13.5 is a year and a half old. I have a newer one and choose to run the older one more often.

Just wondering if you have changed the bearing yet?

Honestly I don't remember. I may have put ceramics in that one early on.

Plain and simple, the motors I looked at from the Top ten were all fully legal. Nothing on Inductance, resistance or the timing had been played with at all.

You can tell VERY easily if the timing has been jacked up just by looking at the sensors from the front of the motor. It's something ANYONE can see with their naked eye. Yes, I mean all of it, from shaving to making to new holes, to what ever, the "physical" position of the rotors in relation to the coils is easy to spot.

I'm planning on a write up for our site, and any other site to show you the in's and out's of cheating so we all know how to catch them. It's not as complicated to tech as anyone thinks.

Charlie:

While this "family" is no longer racing, there still comes a term descriped as "loyality". In the past 10+ years, no manufacture has supported oval like Novak has (even though oval is a small minority of RC Racing). I am sure what Novak is doing or testing is for the betterment of the hobby, verses the quick "buck$$$$$!!! My only hope and staying in touch with this small community, is to see where their "loyalities" lie, verses who has the best deal or who is going to sponsor who? !!

ROAR may allow "any" 17.5, but oval racers need to recognize "WHO" the 17.5 was originally "designed" for? Only one manufacture stepped up to the plate and worked with the oval community..NOVAK!!!

Disclaimer: NOVAK IS NOT SPONSORING ANY OF OUR FISHING TRIPS!!

CHARLIE: ON SECOND THOUGT?? Will NOVAK make a brushless trolling motor, compatiable with LIPO'S?? If we catch a 2lb Bluegill, will Novak SPONSOR US?? :thumbsup::p:wave::woohoo:

CHARLIE: ON SECOND THOUGT?? Will NOVAK make a brushless trolling motor, compatiable with LIPO'S?? If we catch a 2lb Bluegill, will Novak SPONSOR US?? :thumbsup::p:wave::woohoo:

Now there's a fish tale if I've ever heard one!!:)

We use them 2lb. bluegill to catch catfish... LOL

Guys go to the novak site it shows recommended temps gearing and everhting else you need to know

so are you saying that novak's temp are the actual temp drivers go buy that public temp?
if so that is the only factory recomended #ers that i have ever seen anyone go buy !

Don't forget one very important detail: MADE IN THE USACharlie:

While this "family" is no longer racing, there still comes a term descriped as "loyality". In the past 10+ years, no manufacture has supported oval like Novak has (even though oval is a small minority of RC Racing). I am sure what Novak is doing or testing is for the betterment of the hobby, verses the quick "buck$$$$$!!! My only hope and staying in touch with this small community, is to see where their "loyalities" lie, verses who has the best deal or who is going to sponsor who? !!

ROAR may allow "any" 17.5, but oval racers need to recognize "WHO" the 17.5 was originally "designed" for? Only one manufacture stepped up to the plate and worked with the oval community..NOVAK!!!

Disclaimer: NOVAK IS NOT SPONSORING ANY OF OUR FISHING TRIPS!!

I thought they had to retract the Made in the USA statement 'cause of some BS....

(I agree with you, though....)

JB: Maybe you can get Charlie to rework a Minn Kota or Motorguide for you... And, I will admit to cutting a few sets of brushes in Motorguides to gain performance & efficiency... :)

you're right but who cares about the BS? lol Novak is the BeSt!I thought they had to retract the Made in the USA statement 'cause of some BS....

(I agree with you, though....)

JB: Maybe you can get Charlie to rework a Minn Kota or Motorguide for you... And, I will admit to cutting a few sets of brushes in Motorguides to gain performance & efficiency... :)

so from a novak person ,at the birds were the drivers gearing their cars as you would recomend or were they burning up a BL per race also what is the recomended temp for a 13.5/17.5 and what is the best temp for each,thanks.

I ran my 10.5 around a 3.00 to 3.05 rollout and if i remember correctly the motor temp was always between 130 to 140. It never got hot! I wouldnt get into a habbit of gearing from motor temps tho, how the car is working has a huge impact on how hot your motor will get! Im pretty sure the 2 A main 13.5 cars i was helping with were geared around 3.55 to 3.60. & there motors never got that hot either. Hope that helps! :thumbsup:

I ran my 10.5 around a 3.00 to 3.05 rollout and if i remember correctly the motor temp was always between 130 to 140. It never got hot! I wouldn't get into a habit of gearing from motor temps tho, how the car is working has a huge impact on how hot your motor will get! I'm pretty sure the 2 A main 13.5 cars i was helping with were geared around 3.55 to 3.60. & there motors never got that hot either. Hope that helps! :thumbsup:

Frank is dead on. My 13.5 car was rolled at a 3.61 and even that was a little high in the main. The motor temped at 159.
in 10.5 the one qualifier when my car was good, it rolled at a 3.07, the motor was 153. When I went up the 3.25 (TOO HIGH) it temped at 172.

Ha, Thanks JB. Novak Love's Oval as they have been on board with BL from the Get Go for the most part. Through the good and the bad.

Temp is a loose guide line just to make sure you don't "hurt" anything. By no means should you "try" to get your motor up to 160F, but if you do, you should start to think about a few things. Gearing, car, practice times, on and on the list goes. I would say that probably 95% of the BL events I've gone too, the fastest car has the coolest motor. Touring car or Oval. A good car makes the motor work less, and "use" the power more effectively. I thought my gun was busted when I temped Franks motors, but my thumb is pretty calibrated now, and it was for sure way under 160F every single time.

From my experience the rotors dont' really "wear" out with out abuse. So if you never get the motor over 160F (remember outside temps are much cooler then inside the motor) it really should last a good long time if not "forever". Most of the guys I worked with at the birds had fairly old motors they were running. Sure some had new ones, but many simply didn't find the need too bust out the "spare".

Brand new fresh out of the wrapper Rotors/motors may have a "few" points higher gauss that goes away, but I honestly don't think that makes any difference on the track. Racing will always be covered with a cloud of wives tales and newer is faster, or this is beter then that. There is nothing we can do about that. Racing is Racing.

Charlie and Frank

Thanks for your input and support. I am new to BL and still trying to get a handle on a 17.5/4 cell class at our local 160' flat carpet track.

Last week our car set the TQ and won the main with a 4.03 R/O and temp was around 135. Unfortunately it was our backup car that my son had loaned the car to a friend and we ended up chasing it all night

Paul

[\quote]JB: Maybe you can get Charlie to rework a Minn Kota or Motorguide for you... And, I will admit to cutting a few sets of brushes in Motorguides to gain performance & efficiency... :)[/quote]

Todd: Show me a "rule" in BASS or FLW that says you "CAN'T" rework the brushes, and if there is one and you participated in one of their events..your a CHEATER!! HAHAHAHA!! LOL! LOL! BUT..did you file the trailing edge or the leading edge? Did you serrate the brushes? Did you try using comm drops? We have a two Minkota's, a 27 lb thrust transom mount and a 3HP bow mount? This is the time of the year to start Stripper fishing and we need something that will fight the river current. Need more torque!!!

ALSO: FOR EVERYONE"S INFO: Yes NOVAK motors are Made in the USA! and Bob winds all the motors by hand (thus they are "hand wound" motors"). I have nothing to gain by supporting NOVAK, but I can tell you ALL this..NOVAK is the first manufacture that has done ANYTHING for oval in the last 10 years!!!

We use them 2lb. bluegill to catch catfish... LOL

You mean you fish for those mudd sucking bottom feeders?? That's like being in the "Z" Main catching one of those..:wave: :jest: Now lets talk Crappie's, Specks or whatever you call them in your part of the country..THAT'S "A Main" table fair.. :D

JB: Try an "off-road" cut on them... Cut a little off the top of one, little off the bottom of the other (maybe 1/8 of the brush). Comm drops in those are a NO-NO... Cooks the comms up bad.

In fairness, there's not a huge advantage to reworking the brushes- that is, until Putnam makes a green and blue shunt brush that's about 1/4 x 3/8 face! :)

You mean you fish for those mudd sucking bottom feeders?? That's like being in the "Z" Main catching one of those..:wave: :jest: Now lets talk Crappie's, Specks or whatever you call them in your part of the country..THAT'S "A Main" table fair.. :D

I was kidding about using them for bait, haven't caught one that big in a while.Where I was catching them got fished out.I need to make a trip down south to catch some good ones...

hufferman: I too, was joshing with you. Actually, Bluegills make excellent catfish bait, (I 'm sure you know that..HAHA) When we go out our first objective is to find the Bluegills. We use Ultra light rods and reels, on a 1/32oz jig head and 2" wiggle tail grubs. This combination has caught (largest to date) 1-16" largemouth=2 1/2 lbs., a 3lb carp, a 2lb catfish, a 1 1/2lb smallmouth and a 14" striper. :thumbsup: Mainly we slay the Bluegills and anything else is a plus!! 99.9% of what we catch is released. Except for legal Crappies, and they are destined for batter and frying. :thumbsup: They have to be 10" in TN. which is a big Crappie. :p

Now on to a more "serious matter".:cool: Even though we are not racing, it hasn't been that long. Butch still has 80% of his "stuff" and we like to keep in touch. NEVER KNOW..we might race again.:confused: After 35+ years of being in this "Hobby" we feel we have a vested interest..HAHA Past "experience" has led to this. In order for Oval to "grow" it should or must, stay with one brushless motor, battery (lipo or NiMh) and one brand of speed control. As soon as the "market" is opened up to any motor, any lipo, etc. there will be utter confusion. Oval racing will be back to the motor of the week, battery of the month and speed control of the recent.

Take this for what it is worth, but ROAR is not concerned with Oval. It's a fact. Yes, we have the ROAR Paved and Carpet Nationals, but other than that, what is ROAR doing for Oval? What are ROAR's plans for Oval? If you knew what I know..NADA!!!

I have no intention of restarting ARCOR, so there is no competition between ARCOR and ROAR. But some of you may ask, why did we even need an Oval only organization?? Well, ARCOR is gone, and right now we thave the BRL as a leading "organization". If Sonny has half the head on his shoulders we all hope he does, he will heed these warnings...

JB,

Good to hear your enjoying r/c retirement, everytime I have been to Tennessee I did not want to go home.

hufferman: Yes, we too, are happy with our decision to move to TN, from AZ. It"s not the difference of desert and green, but how to figure out these Hillbilly bass verses the AZ Bass!!! There is a difference!!! Actually there is a difference even with the lowley unsponsored Bluegill!! Does that mean that the Spec racer that wants to just race and have fun is less than a "Bluegill??

Anyway, not sorry for our move, but I can say we miss A daughter, two grandkids and a Great Grandkid...then again we all have to do what is best for us at the time..:thumbsup:

Is anyone else getting tired of fishing/racing analogies? What does this have to do with the outstanding job that Novak does for Oval?

Could restoring old rowboats make a come back

airconde:

http://www.antiqueboat.com/boats/MoreInfo.asp?SKU=hamp17

:thumbsup:

WOW, $15,900! Now, THAT"S a rowboat. lol

Thats too funny. Makes me think about the movie. Grummpy old men.

Has anyone had an issue when you first turn on your speed control it causes the motor to run for a second? Just a short quick burst, but none the less annoying. I have two Novak 4 cell spread spektrum speed controls operated by the same radio and settings, one does this and the other does not. Thanks, Bill B.