I have a new red cap motor and I'm looking to mount my 194 carb on it but the small hole don't line up. I think it is a pulse hole not sure, I know the hole lines up with the stock gasket but not with the small hole at the back of the carb. How are they working this with the new qsac plate? :confused:

You just hit the problem that we have been dealing with for almost a year.

You need to buy a different insulator block to mount to the engine. You are looking for Part # 1870-13160 or Dave's discount calls it a G2D block. These are no longer being made and the supply line is drying up.

The QSAC adaptor plate solves this problem, but before you scrounge around for this block you might just want to wait because the adaptor plate will be required on all of the engines regardless of which block you have.

The latest word on the plates is that we are waiting on the Laser Etching.

From the QASC site:

Effective January 1, 2008

To all QSAC Members and Manufacturers,

Although we have tried very hard to not change any of the rules for 2008, some items required our attention. First and most important is the requirement that all engines run a restrictor plate.

The Insulator, phenolic block, intake manifold, all different names for the same item has been in use for almost ten years, since the G2D 44 and later the G2D 70. In the summer of 2006 this insulator was discontinued from manufacturing. The car manufacturers took it upon themselves to investigate a replacement. The insulator that was recommended, Zenoah part #1870-13160 was physically very close to the G2D and was approved for use by QSAC on 11/12/06. This insulator has now been discontinued less than one year after it was approved. The next closest insulator available is considerably different not the least of which is, that it is ¼ inch taller. We felt because of the changes everyone would feel the necessity to buy one.

QSAC was aware of this last spring and since then, we have spent a lot of time and effort to come up with a fair, impartial and cost effective way to deal with this situation. After investigating and discussing a host of different thoughts and ideas, we decided a restrictor plate came closest to meeting these criteria.

QSAC has come up with restrictor plates that will fit both our current insulator blocks and the insulator #1148-13161 that comes with RC 230 engines.

The highlights are:
1. The plates will come in two sizes, 10.5mm and 8.5mm and will be marked accordingly.
2. The plates are 1/8th “(.125) inch thick and will eliminate the need to notch the engine for carb needle clearance.
3. The plates come anodized in two different, chemically finished colors. It will be difficult if not impossible to match the anodizing and laser printing on each plate.

Additional Notes for clarification:
Carbs mounted on the insulator that comes with the engine PN 1148-13161 will be mounted at an approximate angle of 25 degrees off of perpendicular to the cylinder and will probably require a cable linkage. The carbs don’t care what angle they are mounted at. In fact the carbs that come with these engines are mounted upside down from the way we mount them. The plates also fit our existing insulator PN 1870-13160 and mount vertically for our hard linkage fans.

A couple of other things we considered while making this decision:
1. We are no longer at the mercy of Zenoah for the next available insulator block.
2. This adds another level of assurance that we are all on the same playing field.

3. The manufacturers will now have a ready supply.

The plates will be mandatory at all QSAC sanctioned events for 2008. Production is ramping up now and should be available by January. It is strongly recommended that local clubs and tracks adopt this rule as soon as possible. This will make the transition easier for everybody and sometime during the 2008 season, the supply of our existing blocks will run out and all manufacturers will be forced to ship new cars with the stock Zenoah insulator block PN 1148-13161. QSAC Members and Manufacturers may purchase the plates from Mike Willman for $ 7 .00 plus shipping. Since this is a mandated part, QSAC Members and Manufacturers will pay the same price. Please note that price is what you would pay for an insulator.

Purchasing/Contact Information:
Email: Mwill4x@aol.com
Company: WILLMANN RACING PRODUCTS

Website: WWW.WILLMANNRACINGPRODUCTS.COM

ADDRESS: 10500 RAYMOND RD
LINCOLN, NE 689517

PHONE NUMBER: 402-786-5513 AFTER 4:OO P.M. CST.

I just spoke with Mike Willmann he now has 8.5mm / 10.5 Restrictor plates in stock , you can order them @ http://www.willmannracingproducts.com the button (QSAC PLATES)is just below the plates on the right side a little obscurer

Bill
http://www.qsacwest.com

I have them also and they are going Quick.

rookie question do i need one of these for my sprint car?

Yes all classes will run one or the other. 8.5 for Sportsman and Charger. 10.5 for every other class. GN, Truck, and Sprints.

I hope there are plenty in stock!!!! LPR needs 20 SP & 10 GN now!!!

I have 20 of each right now and more to come.

Jeff, we will be ordering these as a club. It's only fair to our membership that we buy in a bundle then sell them for cost. I will talk to Allen in the morning to see if he or Marlin needs to place the order.

You will also need 5m x 55mm bolts for the sportsman cup
Bill

OK let me know.

Thanks for that info Bill.

I went ahead and sent Allen an email. He may call you?!OK let me know.

Got them to all waiting to be shipped.

You will also need 5m x 55mm bolts for the sportsman cup
Bill

Hi - Do you know how thick the sportsman cup is?

Hi: Scott
I have 3 sportsman cups they vary somewhat .145 to .155 thick.I also use a AN washer between the bolt head and cup. I tell everyone to bolt cup,carb.,gaskets,plate,block together off the motor to make sure bolts don't protrude passed block

On the west coast we have been using a .125 thick Restrictor Plate, very similar to new plates, that's why I was aware of the bolt issue

Bill Scott
http://www.qsacwest.com
http://qsacwest.informe.com/

Also some of the old block had the nut at different deeps. That will change the bolt length also. Need to check them all like 1/4Scale said. That is the best way to know.

what are the diminsions of these plates? I would prefer to build my own.

I can't seem to get to the QSAC website to see if there is a layout or spec of them so figure maybe I would ask here.

what are the diminsions of these plates? I would prefer to build my own.

I can't seem to get to the QSAC website to see if there is a layout or spec of them so figure maybe I would ask here.


----------

AS big as you can get away with!!!!!LOL

AS big as you can get away with!!!!!LOL


Thats not what I'm asking... I want to build mine to conform to QSAC specs and since this is a requirement someone in the tech area should have a drawing or blueprint to build these plates by and thats what I seek.

Thats not what I'm asking... I want to build mine to conform to QSAC specs and since this is a requirement someone in the tech area should have a drawing or blueprint to build these plates by and thats what I seek.
That would not be a legal part

That would not be a legal part

And would you explain why it will not be legal?

if it meets QSAC specs and yes if anyone wants one I will save program and will edm them one out at anytime so yes it would be available to the drivers.

If the sell of say example after market titanium axles can be used and other said such items then one making his on plate that conforms to the exact specs given by QSAC should be as well. correct?

They are supplied by one source only. This is probably tohelp control tollerence(sp). If you show at a NCS race or a track that runs under QSAC rules, you will not be legal with your own plate.

From the QSAC site....

The plates will be mandatory at all QSAC sanctioned events for 2008. Production is ramping up now and should be available by January. It is strongly recommended that local clubs and tracks adopt this rule as soon as possible. This will make the transition easier for everybody and sometime during the 2008 season, the supply of our existing blocks will run out and all manufacturers will be forced to ship new cars with the stock Zenoah insulator block PN 1148-13161.QSAC Members and Manufacturers may purchase the plates from Mike Willman for $ 7 .00 plus shipping. Since this is a mandated part, QSAC Members and Manufacturers will pay the same price. Please note that price is what you would pay for an insulator.

Purchasing/Contact Information:
Email: Mwill4x@aol.com
Company: WILLMANN RACING PRODUCTS

Website: WWW.WILLMANNRACINGPRODUCTS.COM (http://www.willmannracingproducts.com/)

ADDRESS: 10500 RAYMOND RD
LINCOLN, NE 689517

PHONE NUMBER: 402-786-5513 AFTER 4:OO P.M. CST.




Thats not what I'm asking... I want to build mine to conform to QSAC specs and since this is a requirement someone in the tech area should have a drawing or blueprint to build these plates by and thats what I seek.

Mfg's have to conform to the same rule. They cannot produce their own plates either.And would you explain why it will not be legal?

if it meets QSAC specs and yes if anyone wants one I will save program and will edm them one out at anytime so yes it would be available to the drivers.

Mfg's have to conform to the same rule. They cannot produce their own plates either.


and whom decides that only one source can provide plates? Thats what I'm getting at if a plate is within spec and can be provided to anyone then the body of QSAC is able to allow this. If that were the case then we all would be driving one make of car.

I myself do not wish to have any sort of plating on a part between my intake and the piston at some point you're looking at engine failure.

QSAC decides...whom else? If you intend on racing QSAC races then you will comply to QSAC rules. Not meaning to sound harsh but that's the rules. We have raced with plates in Sportsman for a few years now....no failures that I know of due to the plates.and whom decides that only one source can provide plates? Thats what I'm getting at if a plate is within spec and can be provided to anyone then the body of QSAC is able to allow this. If that were the case then we all would be driving one make of car.

I myself do not wish to have any sort of plating on a part between my intake and the piston at some point you're looking at engine failure.

QSAC decides...whom else? If you intend on racing QSAC races then you will comply to QSAC rules. Not meaning to sound harsh but that's the rules. We have raced with plates in Sportsman for a few years now....no failures that I know of due to the plates.


Tim,

I understand the rules and understand QSAC decides them but what I'm getting at why one source? If there are options for other sources then this option should be also considered and allowed as long as it within conformances of the said rule and specs. I don't think you guys are seeing what I'm trying to get across....

I do understand somewhat. The way I see it is we race under QSAC rules that state we use the Zenoah RC230 motor. Even though specs are available on the motor, QSAC does not allow us to produce our own same "spec" motor. Once again Zenoah is the origin.

I'm sure in the not so distant future you will be able to buy these plates from the mfg's & other sources. But, the plate will come from that one origin.

Tim,

I understand the rules and understand QSAC decides them but what I'm getting at why one source? If there are options for other sources then this option should be also considered and allowed as long as it within conformances of the said rule and specs. I don't think you guys are seeing what I'm trying to get across....

Tim,

I understand the rules and understand QSAC decides them but what I'm getting at why one source? If there are options for other sources then this option should be also considered and allowed as long as it within conformances of the said rule and specs. I don't think you guys are seeing what I'm trying to get across....
the idea behind these plates is that they anodized a different color for each plate and if the anodizing is gone or worn off the inside it would not be a legal plate anymore this way their is no measuring and having someone say that it was not measured correctly. this is what i heard and it would make sense and be easier to tech.

I am sure if you or someone else would like to bid on producing the plates for QSAC you can contact Brent or Tony
I have seen the drawings and specs ,they have to meet several criteria and labor of love not something your going to make money at.
Just my opinion
Bill

the idea behind these plates is that they anodized a different color for each plate and if the anodizing is gone or worn off the inside it would not be a legal plate anymore this way their is no measuring and having someone say that it was not measured correctly. this is what i heard and it would make sense and be easier to tech.
True and False
They still need to pass tech using a plug gage , I have the gages (go-nogo) just no plates yet. When the website is back up you see what you need.
Bill

I got a few emails from James regarding this subject. I will not post his mail (privacy) but feel ok about posting my responses which might answer "some" of the questions:

Email #1"

Hi James. Yes your email does sound harsh. This just in....NASCAR TO ALLOW DALE JR TO MAKE HIS OWN RESTRICTOR PLATE FOR THIS YEARS 500! lol The restrictor plate (the new one also serves as an adapter) is a spec item for QSAC sanctioned events (just like the engine, carb, tires, fuel, and car/truck bodies). Many tracks not hosting NCS events will keep using the older 8.5mm plate for Sportsman, and I believe QSAC West is still allowing their version of the 8.5mm plate for the QSAC West Series events in 2008. One manufacturer was selected via a bidding process (more like begging) to produce the plates. Only one was selected to make it easy to maintain the quality and consistency of the parts and make the tech inspection process at race events extremely easy (at a club race you can see from 5 feet away that the part is legal and at a National event you might even check it with a plug gage). QSAC has no paid employees, no staff, and the volunteers like to keep things as simple, easy, and painless as possible. For a vast majority of its members, spending the $7.00 on the plate is the easiest, most cost effective method of obtaining this item. I happen to be a Manufacturing Engineer and also the manager of our in-house Machine Shop that employs 8 Machinists. I do not know what you consider your time "worth", but if we spent more than 6 minutes thinking about, designing, drawing, selecting materials, and making this part, we have lost money. If your time is "free" and you just enjoy the experience of doing for yourself, that's great. I spend a lot of time myself making things that would be much easier to just buy. However this part is something that must be a quality part that is consistently produced for all QSAC members. You might be able to do that, but many can not. If QSAC allows you to make your own, it must allow everyone. See where I am going here? So from QSAC's standpoint, the engine will continue to be produced by one manufacturer, the carb will continue to be produced by one manufacturer, and the plate will be one manufacturer. No advantage to be gained or lossed by anyone. Finally, yes I agree that if the suppliers plating vendor does a poor job of anodizing the parts, the plating could come off and possibly be harmful to an engine. Hopefully that is not the case but there are no guarantees in life or in racing.

Scott


Email #2:

Hi James, sorry to hear that you have given up so soon. The anodizing serves two purposes. First the color identifies if its a 10.5mm GN/Sprint plate or a 8.5mm Sportsman Plate. This ID can be done with no disassembly. Typical inspection involves a "glance"...yep its there...he is legal. The second purpose of the plating is if a more extensive inspection is required, the carb can be removed and you can easily tell if the plate has been tampered with (plating still intact...yep he is legal). At a NCS event the top 3 cars may have a complete inspection of the plate that would involve checking the part with gages (most clubs don't have and have no intention of purchasing gages and could care less about doing this inspection). Again...simple and easy. For unknown reasons you are obviously not a fan of the plating industry. I doubt its going to come off, but if it does, at a typical .001" - .002" thickness its likely smaller than the crap getting through the fuel and air filters on a regular basis. As far as who makes the parts, to keep the quality consistent, it is best to have one manufacturer. Just as you did not know about the opportunity to produce these parts for QSAC, the QSAC Co-Chairs did not know about you as a possible manufacturer. I suggest that you contact them, introducing yourself, and let them know that you have equipment, resources, and knowledge that you are willing to volunteer for future projects. I am sure they would love to have you on board.

Scott


ADDER:
I think its important for all of us to remember that if you show up to the track, YOU are QSAC. QSAC is not Bill France Jr and Mike Helton making a bunch of stupid rules to screw up racing and line their pockets. QSAC is James, Brent, Tony, Roger, Scott, Dave, Joe, Mike, Fred, Eddie, Bill, Ace, Gary, Lance, Chance, Denny, Glenn, Jeff, Todd, Chuck, Rick, Jay, Mark, John, Tom, Randy, Doug, Jim, Andy and the list goes on and on showing up at the track and having fun.

Scott Schramske
Volunteer QSAC Rules Committee Chairmen

Scott was the name Dave reffering to me

Dave Pirrello :woohoo:

I dont understand the big arguement over a $7.00 part. It's not worth my time to even think about making my own when you can buy one that cheap.If it is qsacs view to have them manufactured from one source why argue. Nobody else is. Just my 2 pennies.

And would you explain why it will not be legal?

if it meets QSAC specs and yes if anyone wants one I will save program and will edm them one out at anytime so yes it would be available to the drivers.

If the sell of say example after market titanium axles can be used and other said such items then one making his on plate that conforms to the exact specs given by QSAC should be as well. correct?
Plates,Motor,Tire Compounds,Carburators, all performance products that need to be controlled to keep everyone on a level playing field not he who has the most money wins! Titanium axles are more of a endurance part,make it stronger to with stand more punishment. The plate and the annodizing were designed with the KISS factor in mind(Keep It Simple Stupid)which will speed up tech always a good thing

I dont understand the big arguement over a $7.00 part. It's not worth my time to even think about making my own when you can buy one that cheap.If it is qsacs view to have them manufactured from one source why argue. Nobody else is. Just my 2 pennies.

It's not to start an argument or the cost of the part it's all in principle of the entire deal. Next is reliabilty of the anodize. Obviously no one here has ever had anodize pill away and scratch a cylinder wall or piston. There are other processes such as black oxide that only blackens the part by a chemical etch that does not pill off like the anaodize can and will. As for color coating what happens if a guy gets one color plate and it accidentally got mixed in with the wrong batch so now instead of having a 8.5 mm plate he now has a 10.5 plate. Those things can happen but all I'm getting at is since Scott has said yes it is possible it could flake and get into the engine that alone says ok why would we do that to the racers on a chance? When there is other coating options and the plates can be notched so that a particular notch represents 1 size and another notch or combination of notches represents the other size. Pretty simple and no worries of flacking and peeling. Like scott said there are no guarantees in racing but why in the heck knowingly it is possible just one plate out of a hundred didn't get cleaned properly and it ruined 1 engine.
Then did those in the tech and rules committe or those involved in this plate go to the members and ask for suggestions and ideas and approval and discuss the concerns of any of this?
QSAC is a organization run by volunteers yes and is made up by the members who elect these people but also unless the members get involved and ideas brought to the table for discussion and voted on by those of you all that make up QSAC then basically what you have is guys saying this is the way it is like it or leave it. No where in any past news letter did I read that there was a change in the works and a vote on accepting it. Basically all I'm saying is this is an organization that is run by the members not just a handful of people telling the rest what to do.
I like to also say by no means am I emplying that those volunteering there time and efforts are bad people so I definetly don't want for anyone to think of such.
I was around yrs ago in this hobby when cheating and the buddy system was active and I can't say if it was the cause of a severe drop in membership and races but i do know of and spoke to many from traveling around that had a bad taste in there mouths over what went on and how things went about. Yes I myself and some friends also witnessed so called cheating at one of the NCS race events and so I know it was there.

It don't matter to anyone what I think or ideas I have and for the most part you guys don't know me and probably could care less one way or another if I was part of you or not. But don't sit back with your eyes shut and just go with the flow.
Now if anyone is interested I have a WCM Sprint here and on Ebay and it's fully RTR and comes with plenty of spare parts bodies wings belts and even a brand new back up Personal Transponder also included will be brand new spare servos and servo savers. Be a good deal for someone that wants a turn key car.
Thats all I have to say you guys have fun.

James

I dont understand the big arguement over a $7.00 part. It's not worth my time to even think about making my own when you can buy one that cheap.If it is qsacs view to have them manufactured from one source why argue. Nobody else is. Just my 2 pennies.
Thanks Lance,
Its not worth anyones time. The Money you pay for the plate is money you would have spent on a intake. Instead of that you can run the stock intake now so its not costing you anymore than it was. Don't worry lets race.

Scott was the name Dave reffering to me

Dave Pirrello :woohoo:

How did you get your name in front of mine??? :freak:

:cry:

Joe Brooks
:thumbsup:

wow... Anodizing and the Automotive Market

The automotive market is the fastest growing market for aluminum. According to the Aluminum Association, there was a 40 percent increase in the amount of aluminum used in automobiles between 1995 and 1998. That amounts to an increase of 1.9 billion pounds. The total in use is now 3.8 billion pounds. Automakers are turning to aluminum because of its many advantages: strength, durability, light weight, recyclability, formability, and versatility obtained through surface treatment. New environmental policies all over the world encourage car manufacturers to reduce fuel consumption and emission through weight savings and attempt to improve safety and performance. These factors have combined to cause an ever-increasing use of aluminum in its many forms, including cast, rolled or extruded material used in car manufacture.

According to the Aluminum Association, the transportation industry uses about 30 percent of all the aluminum manufactured in the United States -- making it the number one market for aluminum. Almost seven billion pounds of aluminum were shipped to the transportation industry in North America in 1997. Automakers use aluminum for applications that include wheels, frames, cylinder heads, wheels, gear box housings, pistons, anti-lock brake components, transmission parts, radiators and bumpers to name but a few -- the possibilities are nearly limitless.

With the increased use of aluminum, anodizing has also significantly increased in automotive applications. An anodized finish is the only one in the metals industry that satisfies each one of the factors that must be considered when selecting a high performance automotive finish:

COST

A lower initial finishing cost combines with low maintenance costs for unmatched long-term value.

DURABILITY

Anodizing is harder and more abrasion resistant than paint. Most anodized products have an extremely long life span and offer significant economic advantages through ease of maintenance. Anodizing is a chemical finish that integrates with the underlying aluminum for total bonding and unmatched adhesion.

COLOR STABILITY

Exterior anodic coatings are unaffected by ultraviolet rays, do not chip or peel, and are easily repeatable. Interference coloring offers a new palette of aluminum finishes that are cost effective and impervious to ultraviolet rays
Anodizing cannot peel off. The coating is actually part of the metal


Now I know that phillip morris said that smokin wont kill you... but I've done my part and google'd will annodizing peel off? and every single site i entered and read said the same thing no no no... now i have been in motorsports since i was knee high to a grasshopper and know many many companies that annodize vital engine parts. do you think barnes drysump pump oil systems would annodize a dry sump oil pump if they thought it would ruin a 45,000 sprint car engine, anyone ever hear of moroso? they love to make those bitchen looking alluminum valve covers seen em many color. motocross kayaba shocks and forks hard annodized just think how much that would cost them if they started failing damn near motorclye and quad has kyb suspension.
you have a better chance of you spark plug insulator falling out and blowing your motor up than having some annodizing chipping off and killing it we need rules the more the better that will keep the broke good drivers competitive rich crappy ones just my .02

Even a suicide hotline can't talk some out of giving up so easy. The rest just move on.

Dasher, does this mean that you are selling out because you cant make your own plate?

okay whats going on with plates i wanted to buy some from jeff davis one 10.5 and one 8.5 he has them but needs to get okay with qsac to get approved isnt one person making these .they should be all the same?. i dont want to get them at the last minute.

Willman is the supplier just as the QSAC web site has shown for sometime now. LPR as a track/club will be buying the plates to resale to it's racers.

I'm not sure but in Jeff's situation he may need to be approved as a secondary source since he is a supplier? This may or may not be the case?!

wow amazing. who knew that a simple $7.00 plate to fix a problem that nobody in the US has any control over , could cause so much drama.
I think they did any excellent job of fixing a problem in a low cost efficient manner. Personnally I don't care where its made as long as its controlled as much as possible so everyone has the same part and they all are exactly the same. what better way then to have one supplier make the part. Remember its their reputation on the line as the only supplier.
They have to make sure avalibility isn't a problem. and you only have to look in one direction if parts aren't legal or meeting the specs because of wrongful intentions or the tollerances are very bad from one piece to the next or low quality. and if that is the determination upon inspection of a part. Then you don't have to find out where the part came from or where you bought it. or who made it for you . etc . etc. Its really easy for qsac to go to that supplier and fix it or find someone else to do the job. seriously. I see Anodized intake parts all the time.
That Anodizing isn't coming off . Not without removing some material . and that is why its there . Its a very obvious sign that its been tampered with intentially or unintentially . either way you should treat it with the repect it deserves because at that point its your reputation on the line. not the supplier. If you should receive it in that condition then DONT USE IT. contact them and have it replaced. Im sure it won't be an issue. Im sure they inspect every part before it goes in the bag.
Hopefully they are pumping these out fast because everyone is going to need one in a hurry. of course even if they had been out for months , someone will wait until the last minute to get one. and then complain. 7 weeks until we race.
i've got alot of work to do.

I don't think there's a fuss. Looks like all but one on board supporting the efforts of a few QSAC volunteers for a job well done!

Dasher, does this mean that you are selling out because you cant make your own plate?


I don't (i hope not) think so, his car has been for sale since Dec. 11th. I was hoping to meet and race with Jim @ the Dirt Nats.

Plates arrived at the Brooks house today. They look very nice. My compliments to QSAC and the manufacturer regarding a cost-effective solution.

Joe Brooks
:thumbsup:

Plates arrived at the Brooks house today. They look very nice. My compliments to QSAC and the manufacturer regarding a cost-effective solution.

Joe Brooks
:thumbsup:
Joe shocks arrived today thank you very much let me know how to leave response
mike