I forgot to post this trivia about the Bride of Frankenstein when I first realized this a few months ago. Better late than never.

Remember the theme song from the Bride of Frankenstein when the Bride is being created? Here's a choppy clip of the music on this youtube clip . The actual theme I'm talking about starts at about 3 minutes into the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqFSU0Vi-1A

Well, the song "Bali Hai" from the Souh Pacific, the Bloody Mary theme song, is based on the music from the Bride of Frankenstein. It occurred to me when I heard Bing Crosby singing it on the radio. Here Bing's recording of it on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G4TUIrOUW4
I looked into it, and yes, Bali Hai is based on the Bride of Frankenstein theme.

Also, if you recall the "Immigrant Song", by Led Zeppelin. This song also seems to be based, in part, on the Bride of Frankenstein theme as well. You know the part where Robert Plant yells " Aw-ah-aw-ah, Aw-ah-aw-ah, We come from the land of the ice and snow..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svR3iXKTJvc

The melody for all these songs is the same. The haunting melody starts on the root, jumps up a full octave, and then drops down to the major 7th, and back up to the octave note. Then it goes back to the root, jumps up to the 6th, and drops down to the sharp 5th. , and back up the 6th...

The kicker is that it was originally written for the Bride of Frankenstein by Franz Waxman, I believe.

Musical compositions frequently share similarities in melody and harmonic structure. It doesn't necessarily mean one was based on or inspired by the other, unless the composer expressly acknowledges that his work is a variation or adaptation of someone else's. When Richard Rodgers wrote the tune of "Bali Hai," he may or may not have been aware of Franz Waxman's Bride of Frankenstein score. It's just three notes and two chords, after all.

Did the composer of "Yes, We Have No Bananas" copy the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah? Back in the 1920s, children would irreverently sing, "Hallelujah, Bananas!" And John Lennon's "Starting Over" has a couple of bars that sound suspiciously like Brian Wilson's "Don't Worry Baby." Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. . .

EDIT: I just re-read your post, and if you do indeed have documentation that Rodgers based his composition on the Bride of Frankenstein music, could you give a brief summary?

I looked into it, and yes, Bali Hai is based on the Bride of Frankenstein theme.

No offense, but I wonder if you might provide a little back-up documentation to support your claim. It's a surprising revelation to say the least.

:freak:

Scotpens and Carson,

Even Franz Waxman probably heard it somewhere before he wrote it down. I did read somewhere, that the Waxman theme was used for Bali Hai. Roger's, the composer of Bali Hai music, claims he created it. However, according to a blurb I read on the internet, the Franz Waxman Estate filed a lawsuit against Roger's and Hammerstein over this composition and won. Again, this is only off the internet and the reference is questionable.
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.music.opera/2005-12/msg00603.html

Sure there are lots of songs that are harmonically similar. The majority of jazz compositions several ii-v-i chord progression in them somewhere and most blues songs have progressions based on the i, iv, and v chord blues progression. I'm thinking that Richard Rogers subconciously had the Waxman theme in his head when he wrote Bali Hai. But it could be that they both created the musically independantly. You have to admit that they sound very similar and that the Waxman theme was written before Bali Hai.

You are shooting my post down for my use of words here like a lawyer, or somthing, and wanting me to back up what I post with references like a professor reviewing a dissertation. I'm just pointing out the remarkable similarities between the compositions here for fun. I'm not writing a dissertation here or making a court case out of it. :)

You are welcome to prove whether the Waxman Estate really successfully sued Rogers and Hammestein over this theme. I looked and only found the single reference on some obscure bulletin board.

PS: I went back and listened to the music again. The melodys are very similar and follow similar chord progressions. But, they are not identical and are only similar in one of the parts of the compositions. I don't think this is a remarkable claim as it is an interesting example of how musical themes are reused by composers and musicians in different situations.

Roland

I found a reference stating that the lawsuit between Waxman and Rogers is a myth. So, there probably was not a lawsuit. But, there are people that agree with me about the similarity of the music. The first notes are the same, skip a note and the next three notes are the same as well with the same accidental note. There are 12 notes in a chromatic scale and the seem to have 6-7 notes in a row the same, except for one omission. Also, the timing and accentuation of the notes is also similar. Here's a reference and link below about there never having been a lawsuit.
------------------------------------------------
It was noted in the 1970s that the first
three notes of the bride's musical theme
1:04:22are the same as the first three notes
of the song "Bali Hai" from South Pacific.

1:04:27By the 1990s, this casual observation
became conflated into an urban legend

1:04:32that had Franz Waxman receiving a hefty
settlement from Oscar Hammerstein.

1:04:36The Waxman archives confirm
that no litigation occurred.

1:04:40Franz would hardly sue the librettist
of a Richard Rodgers composition,

1:04:44and there are, after all,
only eight notes in the diatonic scale.

1:04:48Waxman's score for Fritz Lang's 1933
French production Liliom for Fox Europa

1:04:54caught Whale's ear - particularly the
ethereal music for the heaven sequence,

1:04:58with its airy colouring of celeste
and ondes Martenot,
-------------------------------------



http://www.cswap.com/1935/Bride_of_Frankenstein/cap/en/3_Parts/b/01_03

You are shooting my post down for my use of words here like a lawyer, or somthing, and wanting me to back up what I post with references like a professor reviewing a dissertation. I'm just pointing out the remarkable similarities between the compositions here for fun. I'm not writing a dissertation here or making a court case out of it. :)Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a lawyer grilling a witness, and I apologize if you took it that way. However, you did say:I looked into it, and yes, Bali Hai is based on the Bride of Frankenstein theme.That sounds like a statement of fact. But, as you yourself pointed out after doing further research, the alleged lawsuit over the music is a myth.

Moral: Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!

Franz Waxman is one of my favorite film composers of that time - Max Steiner being another. I grew up listening to both of them, and continue to even now.

I have often noticed a similarity of other compositions to both Waxman and Steiner scores. Whether accidental or on purpose, I enjoy hearing nods to them by other composers, nonetheless.

Scott,

I think when a composers finds a sound that people respond positively to, it sort of becomes somthing that that gets used more than once because it settles into people's minds as a good musical sound. The Bride of Frankenstein is filled with wonderful music and I would bet that Rogers heard it before he ever sat down to write for the South Pacific. They are not the same songs, but the similar haunting melody on top the same chords comes into my mind when I hear them.

Roland